warning, this is a super LONG post, I apologise in advance. but thought it better to do this, than repeat posts...
Quote from: bec on January 07, 2012, 02:04:41 AM
According to the Torah, God hardened Pharaoh's heart so he would be strong enough to persist in his unwillingness to release the people, so that God could manifest his great power and cause it to be declared among the nations,[26] so that other people would discuss it for generations afterward.
QuoteSneaky move there, god.
pharaoh was already stubborn and obstenant against letting gods people go to worship him in the wilderness. god made pharoahs heart non responsive after several failed attempts at getting pharaoh to agree to let the israelites have 4 days in the wildreness to worship and then return to egypt as slaves. god kept pharaoh in that "place of obstenance" to teach him the lesson of humility... pharaoh's thought of themselves as gods, god proved a point. yes, i guess could be percieved as sneaky. i see it as proving to pharoah who of them is the higher power as well as teaching him humility, because the events or plagues that happened in egypt would be told to many surrounding countries. yaweh or the god of the israelites ensured that all would know who would win this battle and made a lesson out of pharaoh.
@ MJONMIND. i have to politely disagree with you. though i do respect you have your opinion. imho, i think we are all free moral agents with free will. god is love as we have both learned in the bible. so it would be cruel to set people up. uzzah, who touched the ark and was struck down by god, adam and eve, judas iscariot, many many others incl. pharaoh had free will. they chose to use their free will to work against divine purpose / or god. god then unleashed the consequences upon these individuals.
yahweh / god has dignified the human race with the opportunity to exercise free will. god does not force us to obey him.. moses says "I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. (deuteronomy.30:15) the bible teaches that humans have a choice. either to worship god with blessings in view, or w ecan choose to disobey him and suffer the consequences. (again, here not judging anyone who doesnt believe in god. im writing this to the god believers here. so pls dont take offence anyone /white flag/)
either way the choice is ours as indicated by continuing to look at deuteronomy.30:16-18 "if you will listen to the commandments of yahweh your god, which i am commanding you today, so as to love your god, to walk in his ways and keep commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you are bound to keep alive and to multiply and yaweh your god must bless you in the land that you are going to take possession of. but if your heart turns away and you to not listen and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, i do tell you today that you will possitively perish. you will not lengthen your days on the ground to which you are crossing the jordan to take possession of it."
this is also further emphasised in galatians.6:7,8 which states "what a man is sowing, this he shall also reap. he who is sowing with a view to the flesh will reap corruption in the flesh, but he that is sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the sspirit"
imho the doctrine of predestination suggests that god is cold, devoid of heart, feeling or compassion. but nothing could be further from the truth. the notion of predestination / fate also undermines two of gods qualities mentioned in the bible "justice and love" - 1 john 4:8
this is just what i have learned from the bible and feel comfortable with. not saying that you are wrong and i am right. but this is what i feel l most comfortable with and wish to share with others.
respect/ you heaps for your love for god and the bible.
@ ANYONE... here is an interesting one for you... let me know your thoughts. it was mentioned by FRONT:
QuoteThey were promised a place of "milk & honey" (Exodus 3). This was certainly not a case of "instant gratification"--not by a LONG stretch. There was no milk and honey served to them on a silver platter. And where was this land that was spoken of, "flowing with milk and honey"? They could not see it...but they believed. They pressed on, continuing to Trust in God. They bolstered their faith --- and they never lost hope. It took many years before they finally reached their destination. BUT--- they had enough to survive the journey.
Bottom line: They didn't get what they wanted, when they wanted it.....but they got what they needed, when they needed it.
it is interesting to note that the israelites were supposed to recieve the land of milk and honey right after leaving egypt. they were only supposed to be in the wilderness for however they disobeyed god, made a false god (the golden calf) and broke his law by giving worship to an idol. because of this and many repeat offences by the israelites god sentenced them to serve 40 years. a day for each year that they were supposed to be there they were sentenced to the desolate hot wilderness to exist on manna. yes they did get their milk and honey later when they crossed the jordan with joshua as their leader, but they could have had it sooner. they 'extended their own stay' so to speak....
now this makes me think... if the proverbial land of milk and honey is bam... and we are the israelites, and MJ is moses leading us to bam... we what happens if our 'stay' in the "wilderness", which is this time of "unknowns and darnkess" - is extended because of the israelites or "us."
i say this as i recall (and bec you will remember us discussing this previously) that TS mentioned that the "when" of bam may be partially dependant on believers....
here is TS's quote to which i am refering, which is TIAI Level 1:7
QuoteWhy Would the "Return" Depend on Hoaxers?
Several have asked: why would the timing of the MJ return be dependent (at least partly) upon few thousand hoax believers, and their understanding/accepting the TIAI information? A simple answer is that the reaction of the few before the return, can be a pretty good indicator of the reaction of the many after the return
{http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1991}.
But think about it. After returning, MJ can speak publicly about the environment and other issues related to healing the world; but with some aspects, well I think you can figure things out. As soon as MJ returns, there will be a stampede on all the hoax forums; there will be tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, suddenly interested in what we have been investigating and saying all along. So if we hoax believers now are united on the reasons for the hoax: it will be much more effective when others come asking questions, than if we are all confused and disagreeing on the reasons for the hoax.
Here is how Mo put it: "It's a process to make people AWARE of what is going on. If you don't research, read, learn and understand, you won't become aware. If S.T.U.D.Y., TS or any Anonymous poster would have told you plain out who he/she is and where all the info he/she has came from, you would not have read the full explanation and wouldn't have learned anything. TIAI pointed out to conspiracies and NWO, and those issues were rejected by a lot of people until TIAI pointed out to them. Me? Guilty as charged... I skipped the 'Illuminati' threads as well until TIAI forced me to look into this whole issue. After researching it, and not reading up on the conspiracies and NWO only, a lot of things became clear to me." {http://http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1936&start=75}
So if there are any questions or objections that I have not addressed in this thread, please post them in the replies below; and I will answer them directly right here in the replies (I will watch this thread pretty closely, for the next week or two, and respond to things as needed—so as to help clear the way as far as possible for a speedy "Return").