TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[bec]

@TS, I have several more reasons then a dozen. I tried to whittle the list down to the meatiest parts, but, well, it's all main course and not a single leftover. But on the plus side I gave you a whole extra day to deal with the extra work before your dead(ha)line!

Thank you to everyone who pm'ed me with good info. I hope I have done us all justice with these lists. Here goes...

12 reasons against dead body theory

• The chances of someone other then MJ that looks enough like MJ to fool everyone ( double) dying of natural means (or Propofol) in accordance with the numerology, perfectly on time, who also happened to be residing at Carrolwood that day is a statistical impossibility.
• Assisted suicide or DWD is against the law in California. California penal code section 401: Every person who deliberately aids, or advises, or encourages a person to commit suicide, is guilty of a felony. MJ, Murray, and AEG would all be guilty in accordance with the wording of the law.
• A real body would need to get into Carrolwood somehow and at some point. On 6/25/09, the staff was sent out of the house before the stretcher came down indicating that they were not in on, so therefore would need to be shielded from the body’s arrival as well.
• A real body would need to be stored until go time. Dead bodies are messy n ought not be stored in private residences and few private residences would be set up to properly house a corpse. This is a public health risk that would necessitate specific accommodations. This is also a zoning violation (at best), and potentially a small string of misdemeanors and minor felonies resulting from abuse of a corpse, tampering with a corpse, others.
• If a real body were frozen to facilitate storage, it would be at the wrong temperature to fool emergency workers, and by the time the core was thawed, the outer tissues would be mush. Additionally, once-frozen-now-thawed tissue is distinctive and shows up clearly upon autopsy.
• A fresh dead corpse would be subject to rigor mortis within minutes and lasting for hours, making entubulation of the airway/locating and tapping a vein impossible.
• It was reported that the body was ID’ed from MJ’s driver’s license at the hospital. Neither a DWD patient nor a random corpse could be ID’ed as MJ from a pic of MJ.
• UCLA spokesperson did not make a statement in the death of MJ, counter to what is typical with a high profile death at a hospital. Instead, Jermaine Jackson made the statement. UCLA specifically dodged making any kind of statement regarding MJ at all, rather printing the family’s prewritten words instead.
• No doctor came forward initially to sign the death certificate. If there were a real body entering UCLA that day, there should be no problem getting a DC for it signed.
• The body wouldn’t look like MJ and ambulance/gurney/autopsy pics clearly depict MJ, and not an apparent hospice patient as was testified by paramedics.
• Makes the entire story, start to finish, a lie. MJ was not attended by paramedics at Carrolwood, MJ didn’t go to UCLA, MJ didn’t get transported via helicopter, MJ did not go to the coroner’s office.
• Both paramedics that testified attested that the patient looked like MJ. A DWD patient or random corpse are not going to resemble MJ enough for both paramedics to testify that they recognized him.
• No IV drip was witnessed suspended above the patient in the stretcher gif and if a real person was being attended in a medical emergency, and was reportedly already ported with an IV when paramedics arrived, after 42 minutes of attendance during which they are treating him as not dead and administering IV injections, it is extremely unlikely that the patient would not be started on fluids within that amount of time.
• The official story is that Dr. Cooper was able to rouse some heart activity in the patient at UCLA for several minutes. This would be impossible if she were working on a stored corpse, and nearing impossible on a DWD patient who had consumed suicide medication 1 hour (or more) prior.
• If the patient were a DWD patient, then rescue efforts such as those described having been administered to MJ violates ethics on the part of MJ, Murray, and AEG (and any other potential producers/financial backers of DH), for knowingly allowing a person who’s will it was to end their life peacefully under their own control, be subjected to extreme methods of resuscitation for an extended duration of time. Successful or not, this action is a direct violation of this patient’s end of life wishes.
• Because of points 4, 5, 6, and 7, the paramedics and ER emergency Dr.’s are required to be in on it, so we lack motive of who the real body is designed to fool.

12 reasons supporting Live MJ theory

• MJ was reported to be “Alive at UCLA”.
• Allows for on-the-scene direction/consultation in case anything unforeseen ocurred which required on-the-spot changes or alterations in the plan.
• Completely eliminates the risk that the hoax will be ruined by MJ being discovered safe and hiding somewhere else, or sneaking away shortly before 6/25/09, when he is supposed to be suddenly dead/dying at UCLA that day.
• MJ had to leave Carrolwood somehow, at some point, same as above, allows MJ to not be discovered/seen leaving Carrolwood anytime sooner or later then reported.
• Eliminates the need for MJ to hide, be disguised, travel to, and arrange for insiders at a 2nd or 3rd location as would be necessary to coordinate if escaping via another means.
• Allows MJ to have photos taken as reported for gurney and autopsy, ensuring that those photos cannot be discovered too early (them being discovered to be in existence pre 6/25/09 would be a big problem), nor will those photos show up too late to potentially rouse suspicion of someone in a paperwork position not in on the hoax (autopsy was performed 6/26 so those pics needed to exist by then).
• Allows emergency workers to be able to accurately recall events because MJ is really there on the stretcher (probably really wearing that gown). Live simulations could be run through, in the time allowed at each location, to allow workers to have real memories, rather then fabricated alibis. MJ is not dealing with seasoned actors here, and they’re playing the role of their lives, so it is best if people are given an opportunity to have something real to remember.
• Allows validation of the official story should anyone not in on the hoax happen to catch a quick glimpse of the stretcher going by at any point along the way, they would really see MJ.
• Allows for unforeseen occurrences to be encountered (ambulance break down, unauthorized peaks through windows in locked doors, etc) because, just as reported, MJ is indeed just where he is supposed to be.
• Shortly after the ambulance arrives, the fire alarm was pulled in the portion of UCLA that MJ was reportedly in on 6/25/09, effectively minimizing the unauthorized opportunities outlined in points 8 & 9.
• Gives MJ a perfect escape out of UCLA, because again, he could do exactly as is reported and take the helicopter to the waiting coroner van. If he chose to go a different direction, even last minute, there would be dozens of other escape plans A-Z to explore out of the highly trafficked UCLA campus.
• Gives the official story a consistently interwoven element of truth; MJ really was attended by paramedics at Carrolwood, MJ really did go to UCLA, MJ really did get transported via helicopter, MJ really did go to the coroner’s office.
• Explains why MJ’s kids stopped crying when they were done seeing their dad’s body, the scene as described by LaToya. They stopped crying because they saw Dad’s not dead.
• Explains Jermaine’s “slip up” airport comment. Jermaine said MJ wasn’t “with us long before he went to the airport… I mean hospital.” … which is 100% accurate. Just like Jermaine said. He said he meant hospital, and if we can’t trust Jermaine’s word as a true clue, what CAN we trust? :icon_geek:
• Changes the least amount of variables from the official story. The only thing that isn’t true is MJ being dead.

 :compute:

[Thriller4ever]

@Bec

 :th_bravo: GREAT list Bec....very powerful consolidation of all that we've discussed... now waiting for TS...   :woohoo2:

[curls]

Your list is brilliant bec - well done!  :smiley_abuv:

Ps. I hope I'm not walking into a trap. This feels a little like... "please... proceed."   :suspect:

@Bec, if you are, then there's plenty of us walking right in there with you!  :bearhug:

I can't help but feel a little  :suspect: too!  Especially when TS apparently thinks there's still going to be stuff for us to discuss after he replies!

"After I give my replies, others may continue to investigate on this thread as long as they wish;...."

@TS, are we going to get that completed puzzle at last? Pleeeeeease!   :bowdown: :icon_bounce:   :icon_lol:

[ashprak247]

Well done bec. That's outstanding great work.

Over to you TS  :bearhug:

BAM must be near as TS said update 7 is before bam or was it after bam?

[use_your_illusion]

Wow what an EXCEPTIONAL list, great work everybody...I'd hate to be TS right now...your play buddy!  :icon_geek:

[Thriller4ever]

Your list is brilliant bec - well done!  :smiley_abuv:

Ps. I hope I'm not walking into a trap. This feels a little like... "please... proceed."   :suspect:

@Bec, if you are, then there's plenty of us walking right in there with you!  :bearhug:

I can't help but feel a little  :suspect: too!  Especially when TS apparently thinks there's still going to be stuff for us to discuss after he replies!

"After I give my replies, others may continue to investigate on this thread as long as they wish;...."

@TS, are we going to get that completed puzzle at last? Pleeeeeease!   :bowdown: :icon_bounce:   :icon_lol:

what I understood by TS's post is that after he replies each and every point posted by Bec, we'll know what the whole story is...and it may NOT convince us completely and maybe that's what he meant by saying we can continue to discuss as long as we wish to. and we may not even have the whole puzzle solved, some of it's pieces can only be put into place after Michael bams... and certain things will be clear to us...

[Jos]

wow your fast Bec! Great list! Now let's wait and see what mr. TS will respond.
 :th_bravo:

[hesouttamylife]

So is the dummy option now off the table? 

[marumjj]

Bec, if you did it fast, do not send me pm you, I read last night and did not arrive on time. I see that the theory of using a dummy was finally discarded.
I will not define my opinion now (I leave for my job now) Good job guys, see you then.  :th_bravo:

[Adi]

Fast work bec!

Will be interested to read the responses from TS......(I have a few in mind already)

The dummy theory has not been discounted ........TS asked the following:

.............. to compile a list of up to about a dozen reasons against the DWD and/or corpse theory—and also up to about a dozen reasons for the live MJ and/or dummy theory (or whatever other theory you want to include). 

bec chose to go with the Live MJ theory - that does not equate to the dummy theory being discarded in my opinion.

[Adi]

Your list is brilliant bec - well done!  :smiley_abuv:

Ps. I hope I'm not walking into a trap. This feels a little like... "please... proceed."   :suspect:

@Bec, if you are, then there's plenty of us walking right in there with you!  :bearhug:

I can't help but feel a little  :suspect: too!  Especially when TS apparently thinks there's still going to be stuff for us to discuss after he replies!

"After I give my replies, others may continue to investigate on this thread as long as they wish;...."

@TS, are we going to get that completed puzzle at last? Pleeeeeease!   :bowdown: :icon_bounce:   :icon_lol:

Perhaps TS is indicating that he will give honest answers to the list but if people aren't going to believe him then so be it (when do we believe TS and when don't we?).......TS has probably done all he can to let people know what took place on 6/25/09, particularly in respect to who or what went to UCLA. Members can take it or leave it I suppose. The one's that don't believe the answers can keep on researching for as long as they want, but perhaps TS won't be engaging with this convo any more......

That is how I read that line anyway.

[everlastinglove_MJ]

Well done Bec, a list with strong arguments!

Ok TS, now it's your turn :icon_geek:

[hesouttamylife]

Fast work bec!

Will be interested to read the responses from TS......(I have a few in mind already)

The dummy theory has not been discounted ........TS asked the following:

.............. to compile a list of up to about a dozen reasons against the DWD and/or corpse theory—and also up to about a dozen reasons for the live MJ and/or dummy theory (or whatever other theory you want to include). 

bec chose to go with the Live MJ theory - that does not equate to the dummy theory being discarded in my opinion.

Okay, thanks Adi.

[MJonmind]

This feels really good and right, and exciting! Thanks so much Bec!

For me personally this is all bringing clarity to so much confusion I was struggling with, or my brain was short-circuiting with so many thousands of bits of info.

Now, in back reading TS’s posts, it seems to me the main reasons for MJ not going to UCLA himself was the danger of the hoax plans being leaked to enemies of his, and that they might murder him—I’m guessing in the ambulance (seems he is saying not all medics are in ) or at the hospital (again only key people are in, same with at the coroner). And that the over-arching reasons for the hoax were most importantly the NWO and EOW scenarios, along with the message God had given MJ.  The style of the hoax was MJ directing it from "behind the scenes", not on location. He has hired/relies on the best/most trusted he can find to carry out the staging--including the FBI bringing in the DWD patient.  He has consistantly given this message but we were getting hit with so much contradictory info that confused us. 

On killing him:
TS November 28, 2011, 04:18:49 AM

No, they probably would not follow the 12:21 and 2:26; but we are NOT discussing here if the ACTUALLY got him (and since we have these numbers, then they did not get him).  Instead, we are discussing how MJ would PLAN for things to go.  They could take him out any time after the (supposedly) "not breathing" point in time, and the world would think that MJ was already dead (or very nearly so).  The risk therefore did not start at 2:26, the risk started a couple of hours before that.

Also, I am not saying that MJ found out that they were planning to get him that day.  Rather, I'm saying he knew that there was a general threat out there (and had been there for a long time); and IF someone in the hoax leaked his plans, it would be an unnecessary risk to go to the hospital (and also escape from the hospital, with a lot of people around--not all of whom you can trust).

Yes, there was also risk while getting away in a plane, and afterwards; but much less people needed to know about the specifics of the getaway, than the people in on the hoax.  You can't eliminate all risks, but you can minimize them.
TS_comments on November 27, 2011, 10:55:43 PM

So did the Illuminati outthink him?  Or did he outthink them, AND FLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY HOURS BEFORE THE KICKOFF TIME?  Just in case the answer to that question is not self-evident, Jermaine made it crystal clear in his “airport” slip/clue.  But I’ll save the details on that for another post.

On the spiritual purpose being the main one for MJ's hoax:
And the teamwork of TS, TMZ and this forum:
TS on: November 29, 2011, 12:35:50 AM

Let me share a little secret, about the bitter opposition that I have received for about two years now.  If I had never done anything but promote the fun and games aspects of the hoax, you can be sure that the whole hoax world would have been raving about TS for these last two years.  The opposition is primarily because I support the serious aspects (Illuminati/NWO, end of the world, etc); humanity generally wants to believe that everything is hunky-dory, and all things will continue fine and dandy.  This is precisely the attitude which was prevalent before the flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah—and Jesus warned that this would also be the attitude at the end of the world (see Luke 17:26-30)….

I’ve said the following before, but it is worth repeating.  This is the only hoax forum that I have ever posted on, and it is also the only hoax forum or website that TMZ ever linked to in their blogroll; this blogroll is no longer on their home page, but it is still on their website and still has a link to our forum on it {http://www.tmz.com/blogroll}.  For a long time, many have thought that TMZ was just another unreliable tabloid media source—that they have merely been playing with hoax believers, and don’t really have any inside information about the hoax.  Well, TS has always supported TMZ; and recently, La Toya also supported TMZ: “But there’s more to the story guys, and Harvey knows that; Harvey Levin knows that (don’t you Harvey).” {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0f7T8h3VTM}.

[jono]

@bec... Well done!

A+

 :bearhug: