Quote from: TS_comments on April 23, 2011, 11:40:54 PMWe do know that This Scenario at least could have happened with the paramedics, since they reported not recognizing MJ. And if it could happen with the paramedics, then why not at the hospital also? In reality, we know that more are in on it than just Murray and the coroner; nevertheless, this should help to clarify which of the options would require the least number of people to be in on it. Any of the other options (MJ himself, an MJ living double, a dummy, or nothing) would require that ALL of the paramedics be in on it, as well as several at the hospital.
Quote from: TS_comments on May 02, 2011, 01:05:15 AMIn level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Quote from: TS_comments on April 11, 2011, 06:11:12 PMThe question of whether all, some, or none of the paramedics are in on the hoax, is a question that has not yet been answered with at least two strong points which nobody can debunk. Nevertheless, between the staged ambulance photo, and especially with the FBI involvement: nearly everyone is agreed that at least one or more of the paramedics are in on it.
On the other hand, though, so far nobody has offered any strong support for ALL of the paramedics being in on it; and if any of them were not in on it, there would almost certainly need to be a real corpse. Please don't dismiss this possibility too quickly; it would explain the warm room, the paramedics not recognizing MJ, he looked like a frail old man, etc—and it would also decrease the amount of people that would need to be in on it (both at the house, and at the hospital). If someone can bring at least two strong points against the corpse theory, and nobody can debunk either of the two: fine. And if not, then we need to be open to considering all possibilities—that is what good investigation is all about.
TS is very clear here about what kind of evidence is required to support Live MJ theory (and debunk corpse theory), ALL the paramedics must be in on it, and we need two strong points to prove it.
Let me see if I can stay organized this time around.
We could use process of elimination technique.
We have 4 paramedics in the room. We know this because Blount testified that 3 paramedics arrived at the scene on the firetruck, and 2 arrived in the ambulance. One man remained on the street with the firetruck; he is witnessed on the tourist video setting road cones. This leaves 4 paramedics to go into the house. We also witness 4 paramedics entering UCLA in stretcher gif. Blount testifies also to being seated in the jump seat en route to UCLA "at the head". He is not witnessed in the ambulance photo, but we know there to be additional seating on the passenger side of the cabin, rearward of the side window, which would be outside of the photo frame when shit through the perspective of that window, so we know that 3 paramedics were in the back of the ambulance en route to UCLA. That leaves one driver, so all the info makes sense thus far.
We know the driver is in on it. He backed out of the driveway allowing the famous photo to be snapped. If he wasn't in on it, he would have followed protocol, as well as responded to the pressures at the scene, with paparazzi and gawkers milling about on the street, and a roundabout driveway at his disposal, and driven forward out of the driveway.
Check one paramedic off the list and put this guy aside.
The reason we can use the ambulance pic (known to be staged) as evidence of these seating positions is because the pic went public shortly after the event and IF it depicted anything inaccurately, it would be obvious to those who were there that it was staged. If anyone unauthorized realizes that the pic is fake, this risks the hoax. Why? Because it rouses serious suspicion. Why is there a need for a fake death photo if MJ is really dead? If the pic can be proven fake, it exposes Ben to some pretty serious potential liability, namely fraud. He sold the photo to a media company for some pretty serious money. If the pic turns out to be fake he could be (and probably would be) sued. But a bigger concern that comes up should the pic be found to be fake, is it opens up the question of HOW it was staged, considering MJ is clearly laying there, and he's supposed to be (by then) dead. DID MJ know ahead of time that he would suffer a medical emergency requiring ambulance transport and have this pic staged for that event? Fishy.
If the paramedics are all in on it, that is irrelevant, as they are not going to protest what's seen in the pic as being inaccurate and blow the very hoax they are involved with.
But if they are not in on it, the pic must (or ought to) match exactly what happens. How could that be ensured?
The pic had to be staged ahead of time, as it is layered, doesn't match the sunlight cast at the scene. It was sold to Entertainment Tonight within hours of the event, and it required a subject to appear in it that matched the physical description of at least Senneff. If the paramedics weren't all in on it, and you were prepared with a fake pic to sell after the fact, what happens if, say, Blount mans the patient's airway? Or performs compressions? Then you have a $$ photo that's supposed to hit magazine covers the next morning that doesn't match the scene!
One could argue that is all irrelevant, as the pic does match what occurred, so perhaps they got lucky (unlikely to leave this up to luck, but it's what DID happen so it's a non-issue for debate purposes).
Even if luck played a hand, and not all paramedics are in on it, and the staged pic thankfully matched what ended up occurring, and depicting all the players in their proper locations (and not depicting those who it ought not), we still have a subject on that stretcher that is recognizable as the King of Pop.
So at least the three paramedics riding in the back of the ambulance, in clear view of the patient (and all three that are back there having put their hands on the patient at some point, Blount having testified to that fact, and the other 2 being witnessed working on the patient), must be aware that the patient is MJ. If not immediately (as testified) then eventually, once the news hit the airwaves, everyone knew MJ was dead following an emergency call at his residence.
Publicly, we have an ambulance pic clearly depicting MJ on the stretcher.
If a hospice patient were used for this portion of the hoax, then we have already agreed that the chances of that patient looking like MJ are statistically approaching the impossibility factor. No matter says TS and others? The public may accept that stage makeup accounts for the appearance we, the general public associate with MJ. The paramedics may simply not "notice" the patient's facial features closely enough to say it wasn't him, after all they are in the midst of lifesaving actions here, not studying his face for glimmers of recognition. That's fair.
HOWEVER...
The ambulance pic is a dead ringer for KoP and the paramedic crew get just as much time as the rest of us to study it after the fact and refer to their memory banks and decide if what they see in that pic matches what they remember from the scene.
Perhaps they just can't remember. It was a flurry of activity, after all, so much happening at once in an emergency situation, and again, they weren't studying his face. They were working on his BODY.
You know the whole problem with the patient in the ambulance pic not matching reality and only the paramedics knowing this for certain could be explained away by saying professional paramedics simply aren't going to get involved in some media scandal of fake celebrity photos sold to tabloid rags. Fine. For argument sake let's go along with this and forget his face in the ambulance pic.
Both Senneff and Blount testified that the patient looked like a hospice patient, very thin, emaciated, etc. Appeared to be "down" for sometime before they arrived. Apparently the appearance of the patient's body made quite the impression on these men, to remember so vividly the man's condition.
This photo was provided to the court as autopsy pic:
Does that look like an emaciated hospice patient to anyone? Not to mention, it's clearly MJ.
How do we explain two pieces of court submitted evidence (witness testimony and autopsy pic) that completely contradict each other?
How do we explain Senneff and Blount sitting there on the stand and testifying to something that directly contradicts submitted evidence?
We also have clearly MJ depicted still at the hospital (in case someone wants to argue that we have already established that the coroner is in on it, so what ended up in the autopsy room need not be what was worked on at UCLA).
So we have 3 images of what's clearly MJ on the stretcher/gurney in all 3 locations in question on 6/25/09 (ambulance, UCLA, coroner) and if not all the players are in on it, why is not one single person piping up to say, "hey, that's not the patient I worked on"? What are the chances?
Driver is in on it, established effectively and unprotested.
The paramedic team needed to be prearranged, as the 911 call did not come in through the usual channels and so therefore someone at LAFD needed to be in on it to enter that info into the computer (yet not enter it into official call logs for that day). Someone had to send these guys out on call.
We have a good argument for Senneff and Blount being in on it, as their testimony does not match the evidence photos, and never once has they/did they protest this fact.
The only thing I have on the 4th guy is all of the above. If the patient he put his hands on didn't match the evidence photos you'd think that would be a problem for the success of the hoax. That's merely a connection of reason, however, so if anyone wants to jump in and help out here, now's the time, lol.
