TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[Thriller4ever]

(unsure if I'm 100% on this) but considering hoax started in bad era, reference to 'Annie' in Smth Crim. hints to a dummy, considering resuscitation dummy is referred to as an Annie.... But I may be off with that one...

I vote No corpse!!  :icon_razz:  :icon_razz:  :icon_razz:


LOL

Love this hoax, best invention ever!

But the plans for hoax may change...that's what we learned just now...the hoax must go on...

[Andrea]

Blount was the one who said he "immediately" recognized the patient as Michael Jackson.  I agree it makes sense to plan the hoax in a way that allows for something unexpected happening but that doesn't mean the paramedics weren't in on it.  Once again, remember the ambulance backing so slowly out of the driveway.  If there was a real body and Murray refused to call his death at the house, there would be an urgency to get this dead/dying body to the hospital.

[TS_comments]

... Also, Should a real corpse have been used, the risk of it 'not being MJ' possibly witnessed by paramedics, UCLA staff / coroner / autopsy personnel would have been high considering MJs distinguished looks. ..."

Actually, the risk of someone who didn't look too much like MJ is much less of a risk than a dummy being discovered by someone not in the hoax.

Consider the fact that it has actually been reported, both on TMZ and in court, that the patient looked like a frail hospice patient, and not MJ, etc.  But does the public think twice about these reports, or do they just continue believing the official story?

Now what if it came out on TMZ and in court that a dummy had been discovered, do you really think that the public would not think twice about it??

Also, over the years--and especially leading into June 25,2009--many things were done (or at least reported), to create confusion about MJ's appearance--so much so that even some stalker fans apparently could not tell the real from a double.  Was perhaps there a reason for this, or just a random koinkidink?

Doubles used ...
Plastic surgery ...
Baldness and wigs ...
Masks ...
Not out in public much ...
And more ...

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

@ Thriller4ever. The hoax has always been subject to change. It's being performed on a fluid live platform. So there will always be variables that call for ad hoc reactive response. That's not new.

No corpse!!   :icon_razz:


Just having fun now. Corpse / dummy, it really is inconsequential really. But our inquisitive minds must know!!!!
I guess too that knowing / working out all the fine details makes one appreciate the complexity of every part of the hoax.

How's that platter going TS? Time to dish up yet???


Love you MJ  :bearhug:

[mindseye]

TS...

This was my main purpose of mentioning Blount from another shift--whether he was actually from another shift, whether he was there unplanned, or whether he was from the same shift and in on the hoax, the point remains the same: plan the hoax around the realistic possibility that someone shows up unexpectedly.

so it must've been a corpse that went to UCLA! because if Blount came there unexpectedly there would be no reason for him to suspect that the body was not real or any kind of suspicion...a dummy would've raised suspicion...
a corpse went to UCLA...

Even if it was a dummy, there were enough ppl involved to go ahead as planned, so I think if Blount or someone showed up unexpectedly, he/they would probably just follow along ... maybe there were questions - we don't know what dialogue went on at that time. Then soon after he was informed and unexpectedly taking part in the hoax.  :icon_e_confused: :icon_question:

(unsure if I'm 100% on this) but considering hoax started in bad era, reference to 'Annie' in Smth Crim. hints to a dummy, considering resuscitation dummy is referred to as an Annie.... But I may be off with that one...

I vote No corpse!!  :icon_razz:  :icon_razz:  :icon_razz:


LOL

Love this hoax, best invention ever!

I agree, I believe it was a dummy - no corpse.  :icon_e_biggrin:  I've mentioned before, this sticks with me... 'who you calling a dummy?' Front  :icon_lol:

[TS_comments]

deleted, double post

[TS_comments]

... continuing on my last post ...

Notice also that many things were done, to confuse the appearance of the patient.

Blount: “he had an IV attached to his leg”, a “nasal cannula … attached to his nose”, “a condom catheter attached to him”; “and all of that was in place, when” Blount “first saw Mr. Jackson”; and Blount “described Mr. Jackson as being very pale and very thin”
{~0:50, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login; see also ~12:00, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Senneff:] The patient was dressed with pajama bottoms, a pajama top; the top was open, the patient was wearing a surgical cap, or something similar, covering his hair; and he appeared to be underweight to me.” {~9:15, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Senneff:] … his eyes were open, they were dry, and his pupils were dilated.”
{~3:45, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient – extremely frail.” {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

Edit: also a strap going under the chin, and around behind the ears and head (but don't ask me to find that one, maybe someone else can find it).

[TS_comments]

Notice also the difference in the reports of Senneff and Blount, regarding the recognition of the patient.

“[Brazil:] At, at this point in time, have you recognized the patient as anyone that you’re familiar with?  [Senneff:] No, I haven’t even looked.  [Brazil:] You haven’t looked at the patient at all?  [Senneff:] No I’ve, I’ve looked at the patient; but I didn’t really look at the whole face, I, — I was busy.  [Brazil:] At some point, did you learn that the patient that was on the floor that you were treating was in fact Michael Jackson?  [Senneff:] I did.” {~5:30, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Brazil:] When you entered the room, and you saw the patient, did you recognize who the patient was?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.  [Brazil:] Did you immediately recognize him?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.  [Brazil:] And you recognized him to be, Mr. Michael Jackson—correct?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.” {~7:30, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

[paula-c]

In all honesty and when I consider how long this has been going, how can we ever know what really happened? We go round and round in circles with the mental gymnatics .... so TS ....

Here's the silver platter.... now dish out the facts dude! 

 :LolLolLolLol:


Yes, it may be about time for the platter.

 :abouttime:

However, just because I say that things were done a certain way, does not mean that everyone will believe me--and in fact, it is good if people don't just take my word merely because I say so.  Nevertheless, it is hard and time consuming to back up what I say with strong evidence.

 :Pulling_hair:   :LolLolLolLol:

We can actually test what or who was in the ambulance, where is the evidence to prove this thesis or theory. The only reality is that the only thing we have are a lot of contradictions.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Agree with you wholeheartedly that a dummy carries risk. BOTH options carry risk.

I'm also factoring into my 'no corpse' decision, the ethical ramifications post BAM if / when it comes out that MJ used a corpse to hoax his death vs MJ used a dummy to fake his death.

Re: MJs looks, yes you have a point about questions around MJs looks and why the illusion is being put out. But this could also be argued as standard 'business as usual' when it comes to decoys / body doubles / privacy etc...

 

TS:

Now what if it came out on TMZ and in court that a dummy had been discovered, do you really think that the public would not think twice about it??

True. But with respect, anything about any 'classified' part of the hoax could have come out via TMZ or in court over the past few years, and make the public scratch their heads.

I think the select individuals in charge of the body aka dummy (who i believe were 'in') had to operate very carefully knowing the risk that it carried ensuring transportation etc went off without a hitch as it was an integral if not THE most integral part of the day. Having said that MJ certainly wouldn't leave such tasks to a paramedic / health worker rookie. In fact they might not be health staff at all rather actors like the dancers or security staff trained in first aid and medical procedure (Playing a role) George Clooney did it well also many other medical drama actors  :icon_e_wink:

Ok spit balling here....

I'm happy to be wrong. I'm just grateful to be here.

Luv ya TS thanks for giving so much of yourself to this thread  :bearhug:

[Thriller4ever]

at this point, i've got some things clear in my mind according my perspective...

Having a dummy play as MJ would be highly risky, because of it high chances of recognition.
[ and i feel that the paramedics would be able to tell whether it's a dummy. ]

So, as the hoax had to be done (at any cost), a real hospice patient was present in the room on 6/25/2009. The involvement of paramedics in the hoax is not clear to me at this point.

Notice also the difference in the reports of Senneff and Blount, regarding the recognition of the patient.

“[Brazil:] At, at this point in time, have you recognized the patient as anyone that you’re familiar with?  [Senneff:] No, I haven’t even looked.  [Brazil:] You haven’t looked at the patient at all?  [Senneff:] No I’ve, I’ve looked at the patient; but I didn’t really look at the whole face, I, — I was busy.  [Brazil:] At some point, did you learn that the patient that was on the floor that you were treating was in fact Michael Jackson?  [Senneff:] I did.” {~5:30, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Brazil:] When you entered the room, and you saw the patient, did you recognize who the patient was?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.  [Brazil:] Did you immediately recognize him?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.  [Brazil:] And you recognized him to be, Mr. Michael Jackson—correct?  [Blount:] Yes, ma’am.” {~7:30, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

could this contradiction between Blount and senneff be a clue regarding who's in the hoax and who's not?

Senneff maybe wasn't in the hoax and Blount was...which is what this contradiction says. Because one knowing it's MJ and the other not knowing, is ridiculous. These both guys are working on a patient and there has to be communication between them.
Its not possible that one guy thinks it's MJ and not expresses it to the other guy that it is, in fact, MJ

[TS_comments]

... continuing on my last post ...

Notice also that many things were done, to confuse the appearance of the patient.

Blount: “he had an IV attached to his leg”, a “nasal cannula … attached to his nose”, “a condom catheter attached to him”; “and all of that was in place, when” Blount “first saw Mr. Jackson”; and Blount “described Mr. Jackson as being very pale and very thin”
{~0:50, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login; see also ~12:00, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Senneff:] The patient was dressed with pajama bottoms, a pajama top; the top was open, the patient was wearing a surgical cap, or something similar, covering his hair; and he appeared to be underweight to me.” {~9:15, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

Edit: also a strap going under the chin, and around behind the ears and head (but don't ask me to find that one, maybe someone else can find it).

“[Senneff:] … his eyes were open, they were dry, and his pupils were dilated.”
{~3:45, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient – extremely frail.” {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

Edit: also a strap going under the chin, and around behind the ears and head (but don't ask me to find that one, maybe someone else can find it).

Oh, and one more thing ...

Does this description fit exactly what we see in the ambo pic???

 :icon_e_confused:   :icon_rolleyes:   :icon_bounce:   :icon_e_surprised:   :icon_geek:   :suspect:   :animal0017:

[paula-c]

... continuing on my last post ...

Notice also that many things were done, to confuse the appearance of the patient.

Blount: “he had an IV attached to his leg”, a “nasal cannula … attached to his nose”, “a condom catheter attached to him”; “and all of that was in place, when” Blount “first saw Mr. Jackson”; and Blount “described Mr. Jackson as being very pale and very thin”
{~0:50, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login; see also ~12:00, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“[Senneff:] The patient was dressed with pajama bottoms, a pajama top; the top was open, the patient was wearing a surgical cap, or something similar, covering his hair; and he appeared to be underweight to me.” {~9:15, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

Edit: also a strap going under the chin, and around behind the ears and head (but don't ask me to find that one, maybe someone else can find it).

“[Senneff:] … his eyes were open, they were dry, and his pupils were dilated.”
{~3:45, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

“Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient – extremely frail.” {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}

Edit: also a strap going under the chin, and around behind the ears and head (but don't ask me to find that one, maybe someone else can find it).

Oh, and one more thing ...

Does this description fit exactly what we see in the ambo pic???

 :icon_e_confused:   :icon_rolleyes:   :icon_bounce:   :icon_e_surprised:   :icon_geek:   :suspect:   :animal0017:

[Jos]

With all respect, but you can't just pick a ((almost)death) patient out of an hospice to "act" as a dying MJ.
What about the family of the patient, or the (possible) pain and drama,this person was going through (the end of) his life?
You can't just "use" such a real person for this, that's rude.

And seriously, what would the world think, when this comes out?

"MJ used a hospice patient for his death hoax". Don't you think the people will think that MJ is crazier than they allready thought?
I'm sorry but I can't see how a used corpse can help him  to build up a better image for him as a person.

If there wasn't a dummy involved, there must be another possibilty.
But hey, that's just me
 

[TS_comments]

... could this contradiction between Blount and senneff be a clue regarding who's in the hoax and who's not?

Senneff maybe wasn't in the hoax and Blount was...which is what this contradiction says. ...

Yes, but maybe you have it backwards.  What if Senneff was in the hoax--since it is apparently him in the pre-staged ambo pic?  Senneff knew that the patient was not Michael JOE Jackson, and he also knew (or learned) that the patient was Michael JOSEPH Jackson.

But how did Blount "immediately" recognize MJ, with all the paraphernalia?  Simple: Blount knew this was the KOP's house, and the master bedroom, and someone was on the bed which was not a child, not female, not a horse, etc; so Blount assumed it was MJ, by the normal process of context, and the normal way that our brains work.  After a while, though, while working more closely with the patient, Blount began to realize that it did not appear to be MJ after all (which is what the stalker fan reported, at UCLA, which was long after Blount walked in the room and "immediately" recognized MJ).