TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[bec]

But it's a game.

[Im_convincedmjalive]

People around Michael did say he was "afraid for his life"....that someone is trying to kill him.  Whether this was legitimate or perhaps another hoax angle is uncertain.

I don't think the use of a "human shield" (live double) was even seriously considered (which is why I doubt the corpse scenario either).

Honestly, I wondered about the "secret meetings" that night, or the change in routine, and the whole "covert" happenings that night by witness'....someone definitely wants us to pause and think there was something sinister or extremely dangerous going on.

*Edit...what I can't seem to wrap my mind around is how anyone can support the corpse theory, yet think that Michael would never use a human shield?

So, MJ would never put someone in harms way, but if he has a corpse in his home, or uses one at the hospital, then that's okay?!   :?

....someone explain that to me like I'm a four year old....'cause I don't get the logic.  :|

Snoopy71- I wrote this in the TIAI April 11 thread. I hope this helps you to understand more clearly. If you can't click certain links maybe if you go to the original post it will work.   http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=18688.msg323187#msg323187

I am not addressing this post to anyone in particular but I am going to address the issue of a corpse/cadaver being used in this hoax. First off do any of you know the history of cadavers on science/medical research? The medical advancements made due to the use of cadavers is incredible. The things medical personnel have learned from the use of cadavers would not have been possible any other way.

I am very grateful to those cadavers who helped to teach my trauma surgeon how to do life saving operations when I almost died in 2005. I am sure if any of you have ever been in a life or death situation and had to go under for surgery to save your life you may feel a little different. 8-)

Medicine: Cadavers Monday, Mar. 29, 1937
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,757513-1,00.html

Next I want to address the history of cadavers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver and how they have been used/obtained over the years and the cadavers that were chosen. Some of them were from mental hospitals, some from the prisons, some from grave robberies, some from unclaimed, unidentified, transient, and from families who may have decided to donate. There has been a huge amount of progress to a more respectable way of getting cadavers.

There is also the issue of what to do with the bodies/cadavers that are at the coroner's that have not been claimed, indentified or families who can not afford to pick up their loved one. I have come across many articles that deal with that issue. I found a very interesting article in which Craig Harvey explains the increase of bodies being at the coroner's and what the end result is when they get overloaded. Below is an excerpt.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/12/local/me-morgue12
Unclaimed Bodies Crowd the L.A. County Morgue
The lack of refrigerated storage space is forcing staffers to temporarily move corpses into halls.

May 12, 2006|Hector Becerra | By Hector Becerra Times Staff Writer
The Los Angeles County morgue is experiencing unprecedented overcrowding this year, prompting officials to stack bodies and to move them out of refrigerated crypts and into hallways for periods of time.

The morgue building is designed to hold 300 to 350 bodies, but at last count 415 bodies were being stored there, according to Craig Harvey, a spokesman for the coroner's office. At one point a few months ago, there were 447 bodies, the highest number of corpses that Harvey has seen in his 18 years with the agency.

"The coroner was never intended to be the mortuary of last resort," Harvey said. "But that's kind of what we've become.... Hallways become a parking lot where bodies are put until we get those we want out."

Population growth, illegal immigration, familial estrangement and poverty may be factors in the increase in the number of bodies, officials said.

"One of the things we've always tried to do is give families back a body," Harvey said. "But when we're looking for families, we find that today we're not always dealing with the Ozzie-and-Harriet close-knit families. Families are often estranged."

Some of the unidentified or unclaimed bodies are probably those of immigrants who came to this country but have no nearby loved ones. Others are homeless or are estranged from their families, officials said.

In some cases, family members cannot afford to pay even for cremation or refuse to pay for the funeral."We've had scenarios where a family is interested in the bank account and the estate, and that's it," Harvey said. "They don't care what happens to the body. They won't even take out of the estate to pay for the funeral expenses."

In the 1980s, it was unusual to have more than 250 bodies at the facility. In the 1990s, that number rose to about 300. In the past, coroner's officials could count on spikes in the number of stored bodies, which were then followed by quick declines, Harvey said.

"That's not happening anymore," Harvey said. "We thought this was just a temporary thing, but it's not going back down. It's staying static."

On Jan. 1, the coroner had 444 stored bodies. Harvey said he had expected that number to drop significantly after the holidays. But eight days later, the number declined by only 25. Harvey said the most obvious solution was to send bodies more quickly to the county crematorium, which is run by the County-USC Medical Center. Some bodies have been at the morgue for nine months, he said.

Then theres the issue of decomp and how the process is slowed down once the body is refrigerated. Yes this is standard for the coroner to do. They refrigerate the body. This method allows for the cadaver to be used for periods of 10 hours at a time for study/research. http://www.sccvote.org/SCC/docs/Public% ... ent%20(DEP/attachments/APC-HSC%20Ch2%20Mass%20Fatality%20Considerations.pdf

Body decomposition slows once remains are placed in cold storage (between 37–42 degrees Fahrenheit). Bodies can be stored for up to 6 months in refrigerated storage, which may provide Medical Examiner/Coroner and funeral directors enough time to process all bodies in accordance with jurisdictional standards and traditional public expectations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20586093

The demand for laboratory-based teaching and training is increasing worldwide as medical training and education confront the pressures of shorter training time and rising costs. This article presents a cost-effective perfusion technique that extends the useful life of fresh tissue. Refrigerated cadavers are preserved in their natural state for up to 45 days with a daily working period of ten hours. Tissues maintain their color and natural consistency throughout this period. This new process for preservation of tissue opens the door to improved surgical training and to numerous research opportunities.

I do not see what the big issue is over a (method) of using an unclaimed/unidentified/donated body/cadaver(s) in this hoax. The alternative for one of these options of the bodies/cadavers is county cremation, and the cremation of a loved one who's family can not afford to get the body and has requested cremation. There is also a fee to get the ashes. Excerpt below.  8-)

The alternate for one of these unclaimed/unidentified/donated body/cadaver(s) is to help in a sting operation to bust bad people and the person/body gets to do a great service for humanity. I find that is more of a humane way for the bodies to go out than to be cremated because no one wants your remains. I have no clue what has happened to the bodies that were used after the fact but if you all believe Michael cares a great deal for humanity; than I am sure the person was treated with the upmost respect.

More bodies go unclaimed as families can't afford funeral costs.The weak economy is taking its toll, with an increasing number of bodies in Los Angeles County being cremated at taxpayers' expense. http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/21/local/me-unclaimed21

July 21, 2009|
Molly Hennessy-Fiske
The poor economy is taking a toll even on the dead, with an increasing number of bodies in Los Angeles County going unclaimed by families who cannot afford to bury or cremate their loved ones.

At the county coroner's office -- which handles homicides and other suspicious deaths -- 36% more cremations were done at taxpayers' expense in the last fiscal year over the previous year, from 525 to 712.The county morgue, which is responsible for the indigent and others who go unclaimed, saw a 25% increase in cremations in the first half of this year over the same period a year ago, rising to 680 from 545.

The demands on the county crematorium have been so high that earlier this year, officials there stopped accepting bodies from the coroner. The coroner's office since has contracted with two private crematories for $135,000 to handle the overflow.

"It's a pretty dramatic increase," said Lt. David Smith, a coroner's investigator. "The families just tell us flat-out they don't have the money to do a funeral."

Once the county cremates an unclaimed body -- typically about a month after death -- next of kin can pay the coroner $352 to receive the ashes. The fee for claiming ashes from the morgue is $466. Christopher Agosta's ashes are among those waiting.

Last month, the coroner called his sister, Tarnya Baker, 41, of Amesbury, Mass., to notify her that Agosta, 43, of West Hollywood, had shot himself in the head. Although Baker was her brother's next of kin, they had not spoken since he left Massachusetts for California 15 years ago. Only after he died did she learn that he was in debt. He shot himself as sheriff's officials attempted to evict him. He left a note giving his possessions to the local AIDS clinic.

Baker said she wants to claim his ashes, but she and her husband have two children and a struggling glass-glazing business. During the last two years, they have had to lay off their two employees. "I know that I can't afford to handle all this," Baker said. "I can't afford to fly out there and ask questions."

Coroners and funeral directors around the country say they are seeing the same trend as cash-strapped families cope with funeral costs. Just claiming a body from the L.A. County coroner costs $200. Once a body is claimed, private cremations usually run close to $1,000, Smith said. Funeral homes charge an average of $7,300 to transport and bury a body in a simple grave, according to the National Funeral Home Directors Assn.

[TS_comments]

In this post, I'm going to be giving further evidence about one of the reasons why MJ did not go to the hospital (risk of being murdered).  However, the information in this post will go beyond just that; it will also help us to wrap up 7b, and even help us a lot in 7c.

The question here is whether MJ has been facing a real murder danger (at any time, not just 6-25-09), and therefore was his artwork was designed to portray this real danger through entertainment?  Or was the danger just an artistic creation, designed merely for the sake of entertainment?  Once we understand the "how's" of the hoax, the answer to this question should be very clear.  However, even before completing 7b, I want to show many reasons why this danger is very real; then the rest of 7b should be relatively easy to understand.

First and foremost are MJ's beliefs about the Bible, the NWO, and the end of the world.  I have already documented this significantly, so I won't repeat it here (see Update #1, for example).  For MJ, these beliefs are not just entertainment; they are very real.  There is a real battle between good and evil in this world; it has existed for thousands of years, but it gets much more intense near the end of the world.  And anyone who does not take sides with the evil powers, especially if they are rich and/or famous, will become prime targets of these evil powers (often referred to as the Illuminati).

On the other hand, this does not mean that MJ is paranoid, and always looking at who is behind him, etc.  No, his faith in God saves him from paranoia; but true faith in God does not make people careless, or cause you to take unnecessary risks (see Matthew 4:5-7).

For those who have been following the tweets from Paris, you know that she has tweeted several things about "secret societies", the Illuminati, the eye-pyramid (with the Army of Love cutting the strings), the warning about the New World Order, etc.  And MJ himself did the music video, while standing beside the NWO all-seeing eye {at 1:05, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q}.  And he has also talked about a "conspiracy", more than once.

Are all these things just for art and entertainment, with no real threat?  And even IF there was no real threat before such warnings were given: would not the warnings themselves generate a real danger?  Would MJ put himself and his children in the cross-hairs of real danger, just for the sake of creating entertainment about a threat that was not real—that is, not real until the entertainment was created?

Can anyone read La Toya's book (Starting Over), and come to the conclusion that Jack Gordon was not a real threat in her life—that she fabricated the stories, pictures of bruises, etc, just for entertainment?  And if this was real, and not made up by La Toya, then it should be clear that the threats against MJ were just as real; she talks about the threats against both of them (herself and MJ) in the same context, and sometimes the same people behind the threats.  In fact, it went beyond mere threats; when it came to the molestation charges, it was these same people who "got him [MJ]" (according to Jack Gordon).

"Latoya and Frank Cascio also wrote about 9/11 in their books!!! WHY do they brings this horrible attacks in their books, related to Mj, this is what I don't understand and it really disturbs me" {applehead250609, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg374959#msg374959}.

Yes indeed, some people on this forum and elsewhere are having trouble understanding the how's AND THE WHY'S of the hoax, because they are living in a fantasy hoax world: thinking that it's all just fun and games, with multiple ambulances floating around in the sky—while not gripping the reality of the power and the agenda which exists in the underworld, and that they actually did try to take MJ out in the trade towers on 9-11 (but they failed).  How can we be a united Army of Love, to stand up against their corrupt agendas, when so many of the soldiers think that it's "All for E.N.T.E.R.T.A.I.N.M.E.N.T."???

Speaking of entertainment: The Illusionist (which La Toya pleaded with us to watch, and "read between the lines") is a good example of entertainment WHICH PORTRAYS A REAL DANGER!  There was a real enemy, with a real intent to kill the person who "died"; and the plan of the illusionist included not only saving the life of the potential victim, but also exposing the criminal.

Probably everyone knows this by now, but let me remind you anyway: "Michael Jackson's FBI Files Reveal Death Threats" {http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1628762/michael-jacksons-fbi-files-reveal-death-threats.jhtml}.  Surely the FBI did not make this up, just to go along with MJ's artistic creation of some imaginary enemy.  The FBI was also involved with investigating La Toya's situation (Jack Gordon, etc); during level 5, I already quoted important excerpts from her book {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=19778.0}.  So I think we have every valid reason to believe that the FBI is helping MJ in the death hoax, for more than just movie and entertainment purposes; they are helping to create the illusion, in order to expose the criminal.

"1. He just knew! He was famous and rich from the age of 5! The fortune hunters were always after him. He is intuitive! He is God-gifted. He just knows things!  2. He got hints from Elvis who also faked his death! He knew what happened to Elvis all his life because of his celebrity! and that Elvis had also received death threats!  3. He saw what happened to John Lenon and other celebs [MLK, JFK, Lady Di, etc]! he didn't want to wait for that happening to him too!" {SimPattyK, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg370869#msg370869}.

Let me share a little secret, about the bitter opposition that I have received for about two years now.  If I had never done anything but promote the fun and games aspects of the hoax, you can be sure that the whole hoax world would have been raving about TS for these last two years.  The opposition is primarily because I support the serious aspects (Illuminati/NWO, end of the world, etc); humanity generally wants to believe that everything is hunky-dory, and all things will continue fine and dandy.  This is precisely the attitude which was prevalent before the flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah—and Jesus warned that this would also be the attitude at the end of the world (see Luke 17:26-30).

Nevertheless, even though I have received great opposition from many: I have never received any opposition from the hoax insiders (family, TMZ, etc); quite the opposite, both the family and TMZ have supported TS/TIAI on several occasions {including the recent Too Short article, http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/22/rapper-too-short-not-dead/; http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21471.0}.  And this is because I have been giving MJ's real message, including the serious aspects; and I have NEVER said it was only a movie, or only a sting on the fans and media.

I've said the following before, but it is worth repeating.  This is the only hoax forum that I have ever posted on, and it is also the only hoax forum or website that TMZ ever linked to in their blogroll; this blogroll is no longer on their home page, but it is still on their website and still has a link to our forum on it {http://www.tmz.com/blogroll}.  For a long time, many have thought that TMZ was just another unreliable tabloid media source—that they have merely been playing with hoax believers, and don't really have any inside information about the hoax.  Well, TS has always supported TMZ; and recently, La Toya also supported TMZ: "But there's more to the story guys, and Harvey knows that; Harvey Levin knows that (don't you Harvey)." {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0f7T8h3VTM}.

I could cite many more examples, both from TMZ and the family; however, I have already done that many times in the past, so I only added a couple of newer examples here.  But I will close with the following, which sums it up in short.  The whole world, INCLUDING HOAX BELIEVERS, need to wake up to the reality of the seriousness of the danger—not for the sake of fear and mind-control, as some people have claimed; but rather for the sake of awareness and preparation: forewarned is forearmed!

[TS_comments]

TS says Blout was not driving?

If Blout was not driving then he must be in on the hoax because otherwise would he not pipe up and say the pic is fake? Those are clearly 2 white guys in the back.

Blount was riding in the long seat beside Murray, to the right of Murray (towards the front, Murray being towards the back).  This would be out of the shot through the window (if the shot had really been taken on the fly).

Senneff said that he was at the head (airway), and Goodwin was doing the compressions.  This fits what we see in the ambulance photo.

[TS_comments]

I'm gonna go one further. The "missing" security footage. If there's a dead body laying there, or a life like dummy, and all the events proceeded just as they tell it why no security footage? Where'd it go? It being "missing" indicates there was something on that footage that no one was allowed to see, necessitating it's destruction. Would this footage existing not enhance the illusion of a death hoax? Dramatic footage released of Michael's last minutes attended by Murray in the bed, cut to scene of Paramedics rushing in, cut to scene of stretcher being carried out... wonderful stuff to convince the world AND The Illuminati that MJ was deader then a doornail.

FYI: no security cameras indoors, only outdoor cameras.  I think you can find that in La Toya's book, Starting Over; although I don't have time now to find the page.

[TS_comments]

@TS, if MJ was concerned about the Illuminati making a hit on him, we can rule out the death hoax completely for the exact reason you stated, once he is "dead" to the world, the Illuminati could make a hit on him with 100% assurance that NO ONE would be suspicious. He's already "dead", so he could be effectively removed in very clean, very organized, orderly fashion. MJ would know this, being the genius he is, and would have stayed SOLIDLY in the public eye FOREVER to make sure it didn't happen. To drop out of sight would be very dangerous.

You might have a good point here, IF the ONLY reason for the hoax was his own safety.  But it is not; there are several very important reasons.  So the question is which is safer: going to the hospital, or getting out of town?

[Grace]

@TS

1) Can you give as two or three nails to make us understand why we should believe the family now when they lied to us for 2+ years?

2) What is it that is different now from your statement two years ago to not believe a message to be true because of the messenger's name?

3) What makes you believe that the time is right now - and was not then?

[TS_comments]

The German TV station did NOT debunk the coroner van video.  I believe Jonell Star pointed out that the "Making of..." video was BS and had several differences from the original.

Although this is not part of the trip from Carolwood to the hospital, I am going to address it because it keeps popping up.

The supposed differences in these videos are no better than the supposed differences in the ambulance videos.  They are angle and lighting, etc.  For example the green door: some thought that one video the door was dull, and therefore old paint (at the LA coroner's garage); but the other video was a shiny green door, indicating a new paint job (RTL trying to copy the LA coroner garage).  The reality is merely a different angle, one angle the light is reflecting off of the door, and the other angle it is not reflecting.

Also, very early after that video came out, it was shown that the license plate had the wrong font--did not match the real LA coroner van.  I really don't plan to spend much time on this, but again thought I would reply since it keeps popping up.  Maybe someone in the LA area can take a tour of the coroner's facility, and see the differences and report it back here.  But it is not MJ, and not LA coroner's garage; if so, I am Tom Sneddon!

[2good2btrue]

Thanks TS....then I was close when I suggested the powers of evil will be exposed....and that 9/11 had a big part of all the clues left behind....for eg...TII = twin towers.  7 7 7 Seven buildings of the world trade centre, tower 7 was the clue as it was filled with dynamite.

MJ's choice of backdrops for TII   NEW YORK CITY...minus the twin towers...The 911 call = 9/11.

The bankers are the root of all evil...."Follow the money trial" has a new meaning now....

I did post a whole blog about this....he is kinda playing "A saviour"...and will save the world from doom.........but how can he take all of them on, on his own??  Is he depending on the ARMY of LOVE ???

Is he behind the collapse of News of the World and the Media Mogul....Rupert Murdoch??

If all these people decide to help, or are ordered to help, are they doing it voluntarily or are they being ordered by higher authorities ????

[TS_comments]

@Adi thank you for posting this from above. Reading it again I think TS is an eccentric person who has all the time in the world at his disposal

Don't I wish!    bounce/

Because this post from above SEEMS to support the corpse theory....yet TS said he never supported ANY of the theories.

The false theories that I was referring to were one such as these: multiple ambulances, green screen everything in the ambulance videos, the two videos were taken on different days, MJ sitting up in the stretcher, riding the helicopter, jumping out of the coroner van, etc.

[bec]

Maybe I'm just not getting it, and maybe I just need to wake up, but you're the one that taught me to ask these kinds of questions, TS, and doubt these kinds of sources and types of evidence.

humanity generally wants to believe that everything is hunky-dory, and all things will continue fine and dandy.

well of course I want to think that way. Who wants to believe anything else??

[2good2btrue]

TS....I know you probably wont answer this  pale/ but is Loius Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam helping MJ out as well.?  Is that why MJ made that fist at his announcement?  And the "Drill" that has been performed all around the world....I believed that was a sign to the rest of the world, that we need to be informed and stand together as one, to win over the evils of the world, and help MJ expose them....God bless and thankyou

[use_your_illusion]

"Latoya and Frank Cascio also wrote about 9/11 in their books!!! WHY do they brings this horrible attacks in their books, related to Mj, this is what I don't understand and it really disturbs me" {applehead250609, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg374959#msg374959}.

There was a real enemy, with a real intent to kill the person who "died"; and the plan of the illusionist included not only saving the life of the potential victim, but also exposing the criminal.

...the FBI is helping MJ in the death hoax, for more than just movie and entertainment purposes; they are helping to create the illusion, in order to expose the criminal.

I could cite many more examples, both from TMZ and the family; however, I have already done that many times in the past, so I only added a couple of newer examples here.  But I will close with the following, which sums it up in short.  The whole world, INCLUDING HOAX BELIEVERS, need to wake up to the reality of the seriousness of the danger—not for the sake of fear and mind-control, as some people have claimed; but rather for the sake of awareness and preparation: forewarned is forearmed!

So MJ is getting help by the FBI right...but how do you know that they are really helping him...I know not everyone in these organisations are corrupt (e.g. CIA, Secret Service, FBI) but how do you separate the evil ones from the good ones?...did MJ just randomly pick good FBI agents, did they approach him or does  the Jackson family have a family friend that is in the FBI?...I mean look at JFK and RFK they had people they could trust in the CIA and Secret Service, but look what happened to them.

What is MJ's agenda when it comes to the Illumanati/EOW is MJ just warning people now (through this hoax), when he comes back or is he just going to say this is what's happening in the world or is he actually going to expose things like 9/11 etc.?

You say the FBI are helping MJ expose the criminal, but what exactly is that...when MJ comes back are we still going to have unanswered questions about 9/11, the JFK, John Jr, RFK, MLK Jr assassinations, or is this something that MJ and FBI are exposing?

I might be misguided by the look of the questions I asked, but this is just something I am thinking, in relation to the criminal aspect.

[TS_comments]

4 - Gives Michael hands on direction of his hoax.

Why would he need hands on direction, if it's all planned in advance?  What is there to direct?  Also, the Liberian Girl theme at the memorial and funeral indicate MJ directing, yes; but from BEHIND THE SCENES!

TS said that MJ wouldn't make a double take his spot as he wouldn't put someone else in a target position like that.  And yet by believing MJ flew off on an unscheduled private jet, we are led to believe that Michael would put EVERYONE ELSE actively involved in the events of the hoax that day AT RISK??!?  While he's safely tucked away on a plane or at his destination?  I don't think so.

Why would anyone else be put at any extra risk?  Would they kill for example one or more of the paramedics, just because they were mad that MJ hoaxed his death and got away?  I don't think so.

[ibelieveinmj]

Well, well, well......thank you TS.  I have been waiting for this level for sooo long now and will no longer sit and simmer wondering if my intuition was correct.  This hoax isn't only about ENTERTAINMENT but that people need to be WARNED.  However,  not many here, or at least I am assuming very few people want to hear it, discuss it and realize the seriousness.

TS said.......The whole world, INCLUDING HOAX BELIEVERS, need to wake up to the reality of the seriousness of the danger—not for the sake of fear and mind-control, as some people have claimed; but rather for the sake of awareness and preparation: forewarned is forearmed!

I suppose I may be totally off target here and stones may be thrown but sooner or later the Bible (not religions) will be discussed and from what TS has said, is this where he is heading?     What on earth could TS be talking about when he says the whole world needs to wake up to the reality?  Why does he say that we are also in danger?   Not just Michael and his family.

The signs of end times are becoming clearer and clearer and if we do not listen to the warnings how will we know it's coming?  how will we survive?  who will help us survive?  do we really put our faith in God and his word or the word of our governments?

Now about the hoax, I believe this to be the purpose of it so it doesn't matter to me when, where, what or how "that day" happened but I certainly owe it to MJ for helping me see the light.

bearhug bearhug bearhug bearhug bearhug bearhug bearhug