I gave 4 good points 25 pages ago that haven't been answered to, I don't think. I'll go dig that post up, hang on.
Quote from: bec on November 25, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
QuoteSome have claimed that MJ would or would not do things a certain way, merely because it does or does not fit his habits or personality. For example, some say he would love to be in the middle of the action; and he is a prankster, therefore that fits with him riding to UCLA, sitting up in the stretcher, riding the helicopter, hopping out of the van, etc.
Although the above is correct in a general sense, it is not correct in relation to this hoax. Please notice the following, from TII (also in the puzzle above): "LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE"! This alone should tell us that the TII production is DIFFERENT from what we would normally expect out of MJ. The hoax is the biggest and most important production of his life; and he would not risk having it all ruined, merely so that he could have some fun riding around town in an ambulance, helicopter, and van.
Far more important than the fun, is the SUCCESS of the project. If the first attempt failed, there would not be another opportunity ever again. The timing and numerology would never be as good again; and worse than that, the public would be expecting it the second time—so everyone would question his "death" on a second attempt. And speaking of success, notice this statement about The Illusionist: "... the masterful illusion that has been so SUCCESSFULLY planned & implemented." {http://tinyurl.com/cc5bzx6}. So let's be looking for a coherent theory, where SUCCESS is of utmost importance.
To make it as easy as possible, I'm going to go through a process of elimination here in 7b. I am going to start by showing that MJ did not go to the hospital in the ambulance (in fact, I have already started this process, in those last two paragraphs above); then I will go through other possibilities, one at a time (living double, nobody, dummy, corpse). And for each step in the process, I will be using at least two or three different strong points—which is a very good principle to use in all cases, not just this hoax investigation.
QuoteLive MJ:
Pros:
Allows witnesses to recall accurate detail of events
Keeps up appearances in case of unauthorized people seeing "the body"
Allows MJ to personally direct all the live action as it's happening
There are certain key people, already collectively accepted to be in on it (bodyguards, Paramedics, 2 docs at UCLA, coroner) that would ensure MJ's safe passage that day.
Cons:
Risk of exposure if anyone unauthorized treats the body as a real cardiac arrest patient
Risk of exposure if the "corpse" is seen moving
I await your attempts at process of elimination of the Live MJ theory and I'm hoping you address some of the points I brought up, TS, because I did not include "Because it's fun" as a Pro in support of the theory. I have thrown that out in the past, in conversation, but when it comes to the nitty gritty reality of it, I set it aside... because you have to.
So, "fun" part thrown out the window, what have you addressed? It couldn't be live MJ in the ambulance because TII was billed as "different" then what we would expect from MJ? Well clearly, nearly his entire fan base would call a hoax definitely DIFFERENT then the MJ they know, as proven by their vast numbers supporting the death scenario... so MJ is already behaving DIFFERENTLY... and I do not accept that it is logical that the byline DISCOVER THE MAN YOU NEVER KNEW was addressed only to hoaxers, especially considering the line "FOR THE FANS..." heralded the opening of the movie.
Success of the project trumps fun, agreed, which is why I didn't list FUN as a Pro in support of the Live MJ theory.
Again, change only what you need to change. MJ in that ambulance from Carrolwood--->UCLA abides by this investigation method in it's purest form. The only thing that needs to be changed is the DEAD part. Everything else stays the same.
We know Bodyguards are in on it. We know Paramedics are in on it. We know Cooper/Nyugen are in on it. I agree with Gina that Kai must be in on it because the risk of her breaking character (running upstairs) seeing something (Security NOT ALLOWED in the house) is far too great to leave her out (risk outweighs possible benefit).
Considering we are only dealing with the scene at the house and traveling to UCLA, and being unloaded just outside the door, and subsequently ushered through to the private ER wing; what witnesses are we concerned with seeing Live MJ move/breathe/cough necessitating something being used that would play dead better then MJ himself?
Those are brief potential views... extremely brief and extremely limited opportunities.
-Through a crack in the fence, as Ben's video illustrates---VERY DIFFICULT TO SEE ANYTHING CLEARLY, you're not going to be able to stop and stare hard enough to see if the "patient"s chest is rising and falling (breathing). In order to see that you would have to have an uninterrupted view of the rib cage area for at least 4 full seconds (15-20 breaths/minute=average respiration rate).
-Through the ambulance window-- Again, unlikely from the start, just because it would be difficult for anyone to get past large security man and Ben's team to sneak a peak. Even if they did, again, you have the 4 second need to witness respiration.
-While being unloaded at UCLA-- We see the ambulance having backed almost directly up to the doorway of the ER, allowing Paramedics quick and direct access to getting inside. Anyone who might get a view of the stretcher here, again, isn't going to be able to see past security and paramedics for 4 uninterrupted seconds to see MJ breathing.
-While being rushed through the ER en-route to the private wing MJ's entourage reportedly was ushered into. Again, with bodyguards and paramedics surrounding the stretcher, no one unauthorized is going to get a 4 second uninterrupted view of MJ's rib cage to determine if he is breathing or not.
I am hard pressed to find a situation from loading at Carrolwood to unloading at UCLA ("who or what went to UCLA that day") where anyone not in on the hoax would get an uninterrupted 4 second view of the "body" and thus making "possibly seeing Live MJ breathe" a major concern and therefore RISK to this theory.
Again, just focus on this one aspect: Carrolwood--->UCLA for purposes of my post and support or finding holes in the Live MJ theory. Helicopter and Coroner van are not directly related as a switch to a corpse or dummy could be done @UCLA, and is therefore irrelevant to this post.
So, TS, I am having trouble finding the risk of this theory and consider the benefits I listed:
Allows witnesses to recall accurate detail of events
Keeps up appearances in case of unauthorized people seeing "the body" (small glimpses <4 seconds, as explained above)
Allows MJ to personally direct all the live action as it's happening
strong enough to outweigh the risks in this Live MJ theory. There is risk with every scenario presented, so "risk" alone doesn't debunk anything.
