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[Sarahli]

NOOOOOOOOO Sarahli, I would never say something like that about Michael. Never ever!!!!!!!
I am also not sure about that theory of mine. I mean that there was really someone betraying Michael somehow and trying to kill him. Then there has been a set up planned by Michael and when the Illuminati were there they just killed this guy....... and it was his body that was sent to the hospital.... well it's just a theory.....  :?: :?: :?:

Yes I know, that's why I was surprised.  bearhug

I think I don't understand your theory. I am not sure what you mean by "set up" and what it includes.

[fordtocarr]

Oh, never mind...

[MJonmind]

I'm feeling really strongly about the hospice patient on life support as the most likely option.

-This person does not have to have come from UCLA.
-It could have come from a private wealthy home, military hospital, or foreign private care that had all the equipment.
-MJ has connections world-wide and the patient was said to look Asian.
-Then his name and situation would be more under the documented radar.
-What is the longest that some of these people are kept alive--years?
- Head inuries from car accidents--or drug overuse.
-I don't think there is a moral problems with this, as this gives the man the release he needs and perhaps saves MJ's life much as would an organ donation.
-Facial surgeries could even have been done to help him look more like MJ.
-His name could have been changed legally to MJ's.
- They could have given him the scars, etc. needed for the autopsy report.
-He could have been brought in by all the extra security on the 24th, or by the FBI, making sure all complies by their laws and permission.
-MJ could have arranged with several potential candidates long ago just in case of one dying prematurely.
-Murray did all propofol and drug procedures as the hoax script required.
-A real 911 call was placed, the paramedics do not need to be in on it. They could have done all the intubating, injections, and CPR they thought necessary. The moniters and readings would have all been accurately putting out the heart/brain activity until flatlining.
-Them lying could be them trying to cover their asses. I think everyone not in on it is doing that.
-UCLA could have not known anything either.
-The only ones needing to be in on it then would be MJ's security guards, MJ's closest family (only a few including Paris and Prince) who would have wanted to be up close enough to touch him to see it was not him.
-Possibly the coroner is in because the AR is a partial match only to MJ.
-The ones delaying the ambulance at the house to fit hoax times, would have been the security, not EMT, as TS said Bingo to the concept.
-The only reason requiring a closed casket would be some people recognizing it was not MJ.
-His body would go through all the normal times and stages of rigormortis and breakdown.
-This gives the absolute fewest people in on the hoax as required, and still a live body that would fool ALL but the closest to MJ.
-I'm not including other hoax helpers such as Ben, Harvey Levin, a couple in court (putting in animals props etc), Kenny Ortega? (so hard to guess the list).

Could somebody medically knowledgeable comment as to the weaknesses or any added info to this possibility?

[hesouttamylife]

I keep remembering the airport being shut down the morning of the 25th for one lone passenger to board a plane wih no destinaion revealed and no personal identifying information, a ghost plane.  That struck me odd and my mind went completely bonkers with it and never got back to the norm.   /cook/

[Adi]

i saw TS said " Ps. It seems very in character for MJ to be on site for this entire production. Throughout the years he seems the type to be directly involved in all aspects of his work, and not one to direct remotely. For that reason, I lean towards MJ being on scene at Carolwood, and I still favor him being "the body" that went to UCLA that day. The kid in me wants to think he took the helicopter ride, and performed the grand finale of jumping out of the back of the coroner van too  "
hope i helped :s

You want to check that.......because I am pretty sure it wasn't TS who wrote that.

TS has debunked the theory that MJ was in the ambulance to UCLA.

[MaryK]

I'm feeling really strongly about the hospice patient on life support as the most likely option.

MJonmind I have a few questions regarding your theory:

How had the hospice patient been brought to the house and when?
Was he still on life support IN the house and someone switched it off? If so: where did the life support equipment go before the paramedics arrived?

[~Souza~]

i saw TS said " Ps. It seems very in character for MJ to be on site for this entire production. Throughout the years he seems the type to be directly involved in all aspects of his work, and not one to direct remotely. For that reason, I lean towards MJ being on scene at Carolwood, and I still favor him being "the body" that went to UCLA that day. The kid in me wants to think he took the helicopter ride, and performed the grand finale of jumping out of the back of the coroner van too  "
hope i helped :s

You want to check that.......because I am pretty sure it wasn't TS who wrote that.

TS has debunked the theory that MJ was in the ambulance to UCLA.

bec said that, not TS.

[~Souza~]

...
I get what you are saying, but that would mean MJ's original plan was to be on the scene all the way. Or MJ's plan was never being on scene the whole day, because he already knew their plan and therefore leaked false information.

Well, I think you still didn't quite get it.

MJ's ORIGINAL plan was to NOT go to the hospital, because of the POSSIBILITY that someone MIGHT leak the hoax (which would be a risk whatever his plan was, but especially IF his plan was to go to the hospital--therefore, that was not his plan).

Oh duh... that's of course the most logic explanation... That's what you get when you have too much other stuff on your mind that is EATING UP your brain cells. I am going to grow some new once and think of a scenario.

lolol/

[iamamjbeliever]

Gina, can you please stop posting a dozen posts? It's pretty annoying and the thread gets extremely long and confusing because of it. Please collect your theories and questions in one post, instead of posting a new one for every word.

LOL, This!

[GINAFELICIA]

Sorry Sou, I'll try. You delete 2 of them please.

@Adi I tend to agree with you, but can you please explain why you think Senneff is in ?

The main reason is because Senneff wrote the paramedics report with all the inconsistencies - wrong DOB, incorrect spelling of Michael's name etc, and his version of events regarding what was happening in the room when they arrived matched up with Alvarez's testimony (who I think is definitely in on the hoax)

I have to watch his testimony again but I don't know when, it's not much time left.
Anyway, what about Mark Goodwin? He saw the body, worked on the body with Blount and Senneff. Also Brad Harris or whatever his name is  - saw the body. There are already too many people in this rescue team that should be in.

Anyway, I understand there were 5 people who arrived in ambulance and fire truck, 2 in the ambulance (Senneff and Blount) and 3 in the fire truck (Jeff Mills, Mark Goodwin and Brad H.)
4 of them were in the bedroom and saw the body and 3 of them worked on the body.
Here I go again to the corpse theory...but I am not sure.

[hesouttamylife]

Wow this is amazing and it is taking me all the way back to the reason I decided to join this forum.  My initial theory which I have held to dearly stemming from the rehearsal 3 days before 6/25/09 which was attended by Michael's security, AEG representatives , and peronnel representing Lords of London.  Something obviously was getting ready to go down.  What? I don't know though I have my theories.  But what ever it was, clued Michael that it's time to shut this thing down and dip, and I believe he heeded that voice and did just that. Michael Jackson did not sit by or lay down and let somebody pump him up full of poison and just die, especially knowing what he knows about the dark side of the business. An he would not have had security around him that would not be just as keen to watch out, look out, listen, and act.  He is too sharp and too quick thinking to allow that.  I have to give him more credit.  I have to. 

[PureLove]

Ok, after all of the posts of TS, I think we can finally say that the Alive MJ theory was debunked, as well as "nothing went to UCLA" was debunked and also the dummy theory is about to fall down. I do not want to repeat myself because I've already written that I believe a corpse was used. A donated corpse would make it as real as possible. So the paramedics and the doctors wouldn't need to be in on the hoax. What bothers me is, why the paramedics said that they recognized MJ? Suzy wrote back

I think the theory that involves the LEAST risk at this point is still, the corpse. Blount said he recognized MJ but that does not mean it was MJ. If he was told who the patient was, his brain would make that connection automatically believing who he saw, was who he was told it was. It's the way the mind works, he wouldn't have even questioned because why would he? Why would UCLA staff? If the doc's were also not in the hoax, they too would not question what they were being told; especially given the family confirmed who the "patient" was. 99.9999% of the world believes MJ's dead, so even if medical personnel didn't think the patient was Michael, it wouldn't make much of a difference. All the corpse had to have was fair skin, dark hair, and be thin. In fact, it could have resembled Fat Albert but no one would question would they? LOL

which sounds possible to me. Another possibility is, Blount was not in on the hoax at first but according to circumstances they involved him into the hoax and that is the reason why he said he recognized MJ at the trial. Maybe any of the paramedics were going to testify at the trial but then the plan changed and one of them had to give testimony and they included Blount into the plan. Possible.

MJonmind wrote that they could have changed the corpse's face and made him look like MJ but that would take lots of time and the corpse needed to die on the 25th to deceive the paramedics and the doctors, so I think we can skip that one. Plus a dead person could not heal, so the if they made changes on his face, the scars would be too obvious and I'm not even sure if a dead person's face can be changed.

MJ's plan could never be being in the event area that day as it would be too risky for him not only because of the threats he got but also he wouldn't risk himself to be seen by the public while they believed that he was dead. This would ruin the plan.

I think we're also getting an idea about the reasonS of the hoax ONCE AGAIN. TS wrote it long long ago about the reasons but some people missed the most important reason of the hoax. THE THREAT issue. I hope everyone will be understanding that this is not only an entertainment plan like a movie or an ARG but also there's a very serious part of the hoax which is about the threats Michael received in his life.

[wishingstar]

As much as some of us don't 'like' the corpse theory...if you reread TS' 'advice' in the OP of this thread, he said to change only what would need to be changed in order to keep it both as simple and realistic as possible.  I don't know anything about obtaining a dead body or making agreements with terminally ill people to use their bodies after death...so I don't know how 'simple' those procedures would be.  However, IF the FBI is involved, along with other 'key' people in key places (i.e. the coroner, some UCLA staff), perhaps this wasn't as difficult as we may think it was.

But it does fulfill the keeping it 'realistic' point.  IF there was a corpse that was somehow in the vicinity of looking kinda MJ-like (i.e. you couldn't have a corpse that weighed 200 lbs, etc)...then all recollections (testimonies) wouldn't need to be fully scripted and the amount of people in on it kept to a minimum.  The paramedics not in on it would have really worked on a body, same with any UCLA docs that weren't in on it....as well as covering the risk of anyone not in on it catching a glimpse of anything.  I don't know how far they took 'realistic'...but if the 'patient's' name had been legally changed to 'Michael Jackson' beforehand...then a lot of the testimony given is the 'truth' of what actually occurred on June 25th (except for the instances where the 'patient' is specifically referred to as 'Michael Jackson, the entertainer', etc).

Hmmm...I've been putting the corpse theory on the backburner because it is the least favorable.  But now that I am looking at it more closely...IF it is what took place (and hopefully TS can confirm this at some point today, so we can tackle 7c), I can see/understand why MJ would agree or decide to go this route.  The success of the mission....especially one of this scale....would've been first and foremost.  IF they felt that a real corpse was NEEDED, for whatever reason, then it was done.  And knowing that it's Mike running the show, I'm fully confident that IF this was done, then it was done respectfully and with permission from all relevant parties.

On another note...I was just going over Blount's testimony again and I know this was definitely mentioned elsewhere but maybe it will help us now with something  :?:.  He said that when he walked into the bedroom there was Goodwin, Mills, and Heron (all 3 rode the firetruck...why didn't they testify???), Senneff and Murray.  He said the 'patient' was fully on the bed and he observed Goodwin and Heron assisting Murray getting the 'patient' onto the floor.  He was then asked if there was anyone else in the room at that time and he said 'no'.

IF Blount is NOT in on the hoax...he's either telling the truth or he's mistaken (why would he lie?).  But I'm thinking that's not a 'minor' detail that he'd be mistaken about...I'd think a trained professional would most definitely recall seeing his colleagues assist in putting the 'patient' on the floor. If he's telling the truth, then this completely contradicts other testimony saying Alvarez and Murray were the ones to put the 'patient' on the floor and also the 911 call....not to mention testimony that placed Alvarez in the room when paramedics entered.  It also contradicts the paramedic report (done by Senneff) because that report says the 'patient' was found on the floor.  So...IF Alvarez is in on the hoax, then I would guess that Senneff is as well because his report matches Alvarez's statement/testimony and supports the 911 call.  And Blount maybe isn't in on it and was telling the truth  :?  :?:

But then what about bec's great point about Blount and the ambu pic????

With L.O.V.E. always.

Great post BTC......I especially love the stick figure animation....that is SO me right now!
Something occurred to me while reading your post, however.  The order of who gave their testimony in court....was Blount first, second...what?  I am thinking about the power of suggestion.  If Blount is in on it, perhaps he helped lead the other paramedics through using the power of suggestion when they were on the scene...such as, "....wow, this is Michael Jackson we have here...."  in the moment of emergency, would the others stop and really think about it, or would they just take his suggestive word as truth.  From that moment on, in their minds, it's Michael Jackson they are working on...all because of one person suggesting it.  Do you follow?
The stick figure should be my signature, lol.  geek/
Thanks again for the post BTC.......and for the animation : )

Blessings Always

[Andrea]

...
I get what you are saying, but that would mean MJ's original plan was to be on the scene all the way. Or MJ's plan was never being on scene the whole day, because he already knew their plan and therefore leaked false information.

Well, I think you still didn't quite get it.

MJ's ORIGINAL plan was to NOT go to the hospital, because of the POSSIBILITY that someone MIGHT leak the hoax (which would be a risk whatever his plan was, but especially IF his plan was to go to the hospital--therefore, that was not his plan).

Oh duh... that's of course the most logic explanation... That's what you get when you have too much other stuff on your mind that is EATING UP your brain cells. I am going to grow some new once and think of a scenario.

lolol/

For argument's sake...what if...MJ's 'ORIGINAL' plan included him jetting off on a plane beforehand, therefore not going to the hospital.

The key players for the events of June 25th are prepared for handling, let's say, a dummy.  Because TS said MJ's ORIGINAL plan was to NOT go to the hospital.

What if it was his secret plan though?  And he doesn't tell certain people who MIGHT leak the hoax, like the paramedics or something.

So the paramedics show up expecting MJ to be long gone to the airport and to take a dummy (or corpse..but no, I just can't with that) to the hospital, but instead of a dummy, it's Michael!  Plan proceeds as normal.

Except if anyone did happen to leak anything to say, the "Illuminati", they would already think Michael wasn't going to be there, when he actually was.

Ok, so I'll be quiet about the Live MJ thing for now, since most (not all) have dismissed it.

[bec]

@hesoutamylife, the numerology proves that this was planned for decades, so we can rule out any escape plan.

In fact, we can rule out that the O2 concerts were ever intended to happen, by MJ anyway.

I think we can also safely rule out that MJ allowed himself to be put under anesthetic every night or even one night in the days and weeks leading up to 6/25/09.

@TS, if MJ was concerned about the Illuminati making a hit on him, we can rule out the death hoax completely for the exact reason you stated, once he is "dead" to the world, the Illuminati could make a hit on him with 100% assurance that NO ONE would be suspicious. He's already "dead", so he could be effectively removed in very clean, very organized, orderly fashion. MJ would know this, being the genius he is, and would have stayed SOLIDLY in the public eye FOREVER to make sure it didn't happen. To drop out of sight would be very dangerous.

So is that exactly what happened then? MJ hoaxed his death and the Illuminati moved in and rubbed him out behind the scenes? Yeah right, tell me another one, TS.

We know that this didn't happen because of the family's reaction: "justice was served". So were they talking about Murray being the sole suspect found guilty and now case closed? Well, yes, incidentally they were... but not because MJ is actually dead. Because he's not dead and this is a movie that will precipitate changing the world by shattering the public's blind trust of the media.