TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[Sarahli]

TS says Blout was not driving?

If Blout was not driving then he must be in on the hoax because otherwise would he not pipe up and say the pic is fake? Those are clearly 2 white guys in the back.

Yes indeed Blount was not driving, in his testimony he said he was placed towards the head and I remember he talked about what Murray was saying on the phone. Good point with the picture, it's clear he would notice it's not one of his arms.

[Andrea]

Geez, I go to bed and wake up and thread has progressed 3 1/2 pages.  I've spent the last couple hours going through it, lol. 

So we can rule out "nothing", TS wants us to rule out live MJ in favour of him going to the airport based on the unexplained flight out of LAX and Jermaine's comments.  I remember I had done a post (that then turned into a re-direct) about the possibility of Michael jetting out, perhaps to Bahrain, as one of the places MJ was hiding out.  Whether that re-direct was implying MJ flew out that morning (or before) or that Bahrain was a hide out for a while was not determined.

The against live MJ arguments make sense but still seem based mostly on assumption in my opinion (but keep in mind that my mind is overloaded right now from so much reading).  While I have lately favored this theory, it's hard to "prove" that the Illuminati had foreknowledge of the hoax and managed to infiltrate somehow.  If Michael's ORIGINAL plan was NOT to go to the hospital, maybe he changed it to going to the hospital and sent off the jet anyways (assuming it was a jet for him).

I have to admit that I just plain don't like the corpse theory and it seems unnecessary if it was used to say, fool one person (if Blount was NOT in on it).  Delaying the ambulance from leaving Carolwood so some employees can leave first also suggests that ALL the paramedics were in on it and no need for a dead body becoming deader by the second.  Using a dummy or live MJ could cause a delay either way, to make sure any household employees who are not in on it don't see something.

I have to think some more...

[AnaMarcia]

I have not fully understood because there not could be a double alive who went to UCLA.

If anyone was inside the helicopter was someone that came out of UCLA, right? Considering that the scene was recorded in real time, of course.

A double  posing like Michael dead confirms the testimony of Sharon too!  errrr

[loyalfan]

we need 7c ....now !!!! lol

[curls]

I've been away for a couple of days - wow, a lot has happened here! I don't understand anything anymore - so I'm just going to watch for a while.

[Shining light]

I still believe it was a dummy that was used to pull off this illusion. An illusionist is a visionary. What better word is there to describe Michael. One ambulance was used with a dummy to lead everyone one way while the puppeteer exited somewhere else to the airport,"oops I mean to the hospital." I believe there are very few who know the truth. But the family knows and whoever is in on it,has signed confidentiality agreements which is why I think nothing really has leaked. I think clues have always been cued by the illusionist of when to leak these clues. To always keep us believing. TS has kept us going for a long time. Misdirection is used to great effect by magicians and I truly believe the media was lead to the hospital. As to who is in on it? That is really tough to tell because we really don't know the ins and outs of this and probably wont know until the end. One thing is for sure i look forward to a happy bday tomorrow  beerchug . Is it not Conrad Murray's sentencing tomorrow? Maybe just maybe something shocking will go down!

[GINAFELICIA]

The house staff being told to leave before the ambulance makes me think there was something they weren’t meant to see on that stretcher. They needed the least amount of people in the house before the stretcher left the house.

EXACTLY!  It is coming together now, as I said it would.  As soon as you realize that the things in the videos actually happened on 6-25-09, then the pieces start falling into place.

Hey, maybe that's why they waited for so long - 40 minutes - before the ambulance left Carlwood - because they waited all the staff to leave :shock: :shock:

BINGO!

So this means that the paramedics are in, or at least some of them, because if it was a real emergency they wouldn't have agreed to waste 42 minutes with no good reason.

Now I'm not so sure about it anymore.
I think that at least for me there is enough proof that Blount is in.

1. He recognized MJ.

2. Thanks to TS who linked us to Sharon's statements, now we know Blount changed his initial story to her, testifying different in court.

3. Like bec said, he would have spoken about the ambulance photo being fake if he was not in.

But I am not sure all the paramedics are in because I think that maybe there was another reason for why they delayed the leaving from Carlwood, this reason being if the patient was already dead, why hurry anyway? But in this case it means that security and Murray somehow managed to delay them until all staff was gone, but it seems risky to me though, I mean what if security and Murray couldn't have had the paramedics delayed only because they wanted to delay them?

And if there was something to hide from the staff, wasn't the same thing needed to be hidden from paramedics? So they must be in.

But I am not sure if the paramedics or some of them were in from the beginning or there was an attempt to fool them with a corpse and because with Blount it didn't work they had to take them in.

Yet, as none of them denied the ambulance photo, maybe they are all in from the beginning.

But if there was something to hide from the staff, paramedics must be in.

It's confusing if they are all in or not. According to the answer of this question we can have a corpse or a dummy.

[chappie]

Pffff must have been a hell of a ride with all that people in the ambulance...
FRONT seats and BACK seats and perhaps even a TS seat.
Looks more like a movie drive-in(g) ambulance to me.....
Popcorn and a milkshake Propofol guys?
Sit back and enjoy the illusionist ride......
 /cook/

[BeTheChange]

As much as some of us don't 'like' the corpse theory...if you reread TS' 'advice' in the OP of this thread, he said to change only what would need to be changed in order to keep it both as simple and realistic as possible.  I don't know anything about obtaining a dead body or making agreements with terminally ill people to use their bodies after death...so I don't know how 'simple' those procedures would be.  However, IF the FBI is involved, along with other 'key' people in key places (i.e. the coroner, some UCLA staff), perhaps this wasn't as difficult as we may think it was.

But it does fulfill the keeping it 'realistic' point.  IF there was a corpse that was somehow in the vicinity of looking kinda MJ-like (i.e. you couldn't have a corpse that weighed 200 lbs, etc)...then all recollections (testimonies) wouldn't need to be fully scripted and the amount of people in on it kept to a minimum.  The paramedics not in on it would have really worked on a body, same with any UCLA docs that weren't in on it....as well as covering the risk of anyone not in on it catching a glimpse of anything.  I don't know how far they took 'realistic'...but if the 'patient's' name had been legally changed to 'Michael Jackson' beforehand...then a lot of the testimony given is the 'truth' of what actually occurred on June 25th (except for the instances where the 'patient' is specifically referred to as 'Michael Jackson, the entertainer', etc).

Hmmm...I've been putting the corpse theory on the backburner because it is the least favorable.  But now that I am looking at it more closely...IF it is what took place (and hopefully TS can confirm this at some point today, so we can tackle 7c), I can see/understand why MJ would agree or decide to go this route.  The success of the mission....especially one of this scale....would've been first and foremost.  IF they felt that a real corpse was NEEDED, for whatever reason, then it was done.  And knowing that it's Mike running the show, I'm fully confident that IF this was done, then it was done respectfully and with permission from all relevant parties.

On another note...I was just going over Blount's testimony again and I know this was definitely mentioned elsewhere but maybe it will help us now with something  :?:.  He said that when he walked into the bedroom there was Goodwin, Mills, and Heron (all 3 rode the firetruck...why didn't they testify???), Senneff and Murray.  He said the 'patient' was fully on the bed and he observed Goodwin and Heron assisting Murray getting the 'patient' onto the floor.  He was then asked if there was anyone else in the room at that time and he said 'no'. 

IF Blount is NOT in on the hoax...he's either telling the truth or he's mistaken (why would he lie?).  But I'm thinking that's not a 'minor' detail that he'd be mistaken about...I'd think a trained professional would most definitely recall seeing his colleagues assist in putting the 'patient' on the floor. If he's telling the truth, then this completely contradicts other testimony saying Alvarez and Murray were the ones to put the 'patient' on the floor and also the 911 call....not to mention testimony that placed Alvarez in the room when paramedics entered.  It also contradicts the paramedic report (done by Senneff) because that report says the 'patient' was found on the floor.  So...IF Alvarez is in on the hoax, then I would guess that Senneff is as well because his report matches Alvarez's statement/testimony and supports the 911 call.  And Blount maybe isn't in on it and was telling the truth  :?  :?:

But then what about bec's great point about Blount and the ambu pic?



With L.O.V.E. always.

[GINAFELICIA]

It's so frustrating that I feel like doing the same thing as you Bethechange crash/.
It's so difficult to put all these together.
TS said it would be easy but it's not :cry:

I still am hesitating between the corpse and the dummy theory and the reason is the paramedics 'cause I can't decide if they are all in or not.

But they must be in...I think WTF?? WTF?? WTF?? ...

[diggyon]

I'm sure someone or something was sent to the hospital. May be there has been a set up for the guy who tried to kill MJ because Michael new it before and those who tried to kill MJ just killed the wrong guy and he is the one who was sent to the hospital. And because the Illuminati is not going to make it public that they killed the wrong guy this was never published.... Does this make any sense?

[Snoopy71]

I'm sure someone or something was sent to the hospital. May be there has been a set up for the guy who tried to kill MJ because Michael new it before and those who tried to kill MJ just killed the wrong guy and he is the one who was sent to the hospital. And because the Illuminati is not going to make it public that they killed the wrong guy this was never published.... Does this make any sense?

Best theory ever! :lol:  suspicious//

Maybe a live double went to Carolwood that night in place of Michael (perhaps MJ was tipped off the illuminati were going to make their move---->would explain the secret "dressing room" meeting at Staples Center and Alvarez watching the entrance/exit to the stage)

Maybe even Murray was contracted to do the "hit", but couldn't and told Michael...or maybe his medications had been tampered with to make it look like an accident and they both figured it out before hand. Michael told Murray "I tested you and you passed", maybe MJ knew that's how the illuminati would try to get to him...who knows?! (Although AEG was quick to distance themselves from saying they had anything to do with hiring Murray....things that make you go hmmm....)

A really good double could fool someone at a glance...at the very least a few seconds here or there and even more so if they do not have to speak or move.  If illuminati did get the wrong guy, they aren't exactly going to shout it to the rooftops....they are just going to let things play out (i.e. MJ's hoax).

If the FBI stepped in, I could see people "doing as they are told", and "saying what they need to say".

Remember Chernoff said in court...."Dr. Murray (Michael) IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE!" 

Sounds just as incredible as any other theory at this point....

[paula-c]

Pffff must have been a hell of a ride with all that people in the ambulance...
FRONT seats and BACK seats and perhaps even a TS seat.
Looks more like a movie drive-in(g) ambulance to me.....
Popcorn and a milkshake Propofol guys?
Sit back and enjoy the illusionist ride......
 /cook/

Bec and  Souza i do not scold me, from time to time there are to laugh :lol:

[fordtocarr]

Yeah, it sounds good, but I ask, the illuminati picked the very day that added up to all the right numbers to do that??? 
And also, so we're saying in the scenario that Michael really was using all those drugs, and propofol nightly to sleep while his kids were in the house??
And, it the illuminati did kill someone they had gone to get Michael to kill instead, that means Michael wouldn't ever be safe to return, because you can't KILL the illuminati or stop them ever. 
And, if it is possible to catch them, there's always another.
And, what are the continuing clues for if he's not coming back?

Just asking

I'm sure someone or something was sent to the hospital. May be there has been a set up for the guy who tried to kill MJ because Michael new it before and those who tried to kill MJ just killed the wrong guy and he is the one who was sent to the hospital. And because the Illuminati is not going to make it public that they killed the wrong guy this was never published.... Does this make any sense?

Best theory ever! :lol:  suspicious//

Maybe a live double went to Carolwood that night in place of Michael (perhaps MJ was tipped off the illuminati were going to make their move---->would explain the secret "dressing room" meeting at Staples Center and Alvarez watching the entrance/exit to the stage)

Maybe even Murray was contracted to do the "hit", but couldn't and told Michael...or maybe his medications had been tampered with to make it look like an accident and they both figured it out before hand. Michael told Murray "I tested you and you passed", maybe MJ knew that's how the illuminati would try to get to him...who knows?! (Although AEG was quick to distance themselves from saying they had anything to do with hiring Murray....things that make you go hmmm....)

A really good double could fool someone at a glance...at the very least a few seconds here or there and even more so if they do not have to speak or move.  If illuminati did get the wrong guy, they aren't exactly going to shout it to the rooftops....they are just going to let things play out (i.e. MJ's hoax).

If the FBI stepped in, I could see people "doing as they are told", and "saying what they need to say".

Remember Chernoff said in court...."Dr. Murray (Michael) IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE!" 

Sounds just as incredible as any other theory at this point....

[Snoopy71]

Yeah, it sounds good, but I ask, the illuminati picked the very day that added up to all the right numbers to do that??? 
And also, so we're saying in the scenario that Michael really was using all those drugs, and propofol nightly to sleep while his kids were in the house??
And, it the illuminati did kill someone they had gone to get Michael to kill instead, that means Michael wouldn't ever be safe to return, because you can't KILL the illuminati or stop them ever. 
And, if it is possible to catch them, there's always another.
And, what are the continuing clues for if he's not coming back?

Just asking

I'm sure someone or something was sent to the hospital. May be there has been a set up for the guy who tried to kill MJ because Michael new it before and those who tried to kill MJ just killed the wrong guy and he is the one who was sent to the hospital. And because the Illuminati is not going to make it public that they killed the wrong guy this was never published.... Does this make any sense?

Best theory ever! :lol:  suspicious//

Maybe a live double went to Carolwood that night in place of Michael (perhaps MJ was tipped off the illuminati were going to make their move---->would explain the secret "dressing room" meeting at Staples Center and Alvarez watching the entrance/exit to the stage)

Maybe even Murray was contracted to do the "hit", but couldn't and told Michael...or maybe his medications had been tampered with to make it look like an accident and they both figured it out before hand. Michael told Murray "I tested you and you passed", maybe MJ knew that's how the illuminati would try to get to him...who knows?! (Although AEG was quick to distance themselves from saying they had anything to do with hiring Murray....things that make you go hmmm....)

A really good double could fool someone at a glance...at the very least a few seconds here or there and even more so if they do not have to speak or move.  If illuminati did get the wrong guy, they aren't exactly going to shout it to the rooftops....they are just going to let things play out (i.e. MJ's hoax).

If the FBI stepped in, I could see people "doing as they are told", and "saying what they need to say".

Remember Chernoff said in court...."Dr. Murray (Michael) IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE!" 

Sounds just as incredible as any other theory at this point....

@Ford....to be honest, I don't believe in any grand conspiracy....I just don't think this is all that complicated.

.....Bottom line, nothing is definitive....if we can imagine slinging a corpse around or entertain the thought of a dummy replica, or MJ in disguise....why not involve illuminati? FBI? LAPD?


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