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[SimPattyK]

YOUR ROCK SIM!  :bearhug: :th_bravo: I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW HOW YOU HAVE THE TIME TO FIND/REPOST THIS STUFF.   :LolLolLolLol:
THANK GOD I COPIED, PASTED & TOOK NOTES ON A WORD DOC. SO I CAN GO BACK; PROBLEM IS I NEVER HAVE TIME...SO MUCH HAS BEEN COVERED.
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK.

Thank you!  :)  :bearhug:
Well ...as for the time... I DON'T have time! it's 03:36 a.m. here ;) But I DO have insomia  :icon_lol: I might use some "milk" right now  :icon_lol:
And as for HOW I find all these things.... it's no secret.... it's easy to search through TS & TS-Comments posts when you know the approximate period when he had posted certain things and regarding my own stuff, I have it all indexed/organized on my PC, so it doesn't take too much time to find what I want.

And yes, there's been a TON of info that has come our way over the years....and it takes time to sort through it all.
What I find pointless is supplying/doing the work for those that are either 'mocking' a theory or are closed off to even giving it any credibility.
It's like trying to convince those who still think Mike's dead...and are not genuinely looking for answers or willing to do the work themselves.
Of course, everyone is free to do as they please... it's not worth my time though when genuine intent is not evident.

We've been building a puzzle together for 3 1/2 years...and it took a lot of teamwork to get us to a semi-coherent picture.  NO MATTER WHAT we do or how much we go back and forth...the picture will NOT be complete until after the BAM.  If people want to spend their time dismantling the picture we have built...then so be it (although it should've been requested in the proper/relevant thread(s), IMO, if we are trying to keep the forum streamlined).
It would be nice though if people were more mindful of their comments.

@Adi & Sim...great reminders, thanks for sharing.

With L.O.V.E. always.

@BTC:   :icon_e_wink:

[SimPattyK]

I don't think there's anyone on here who completely denies any FBI involvement in MJ's life or the hoax.

Read a few pages back!   :icon_e_wink: you missed some comments ...

That's the part that gets me.  How does FBI involvement = sting = DWD patient? That is a genuine question because I don't get it.
[ . . . . ]
But we don't know nearly enough to conclude that a DWD patient was needed for a sting to happen. We can't rely on yet-to-be-determined information/evidence we don't have. 

I know what you mean. But the same goes for both theories! can you proove with 100% certainty ANY of these theories that we've been discussing so far?

On the other hand, I think TS has provided enough evidence in favor of the DWD theory and also debunked certain parts of the other theory. Anyway, that just my opinion.

As I've said once before, we have 2 plausible theories, right!? YET we CAN'T possibly know, with 100% certainty, which one is true! at least NOT until after the BAM.
WHat do we do in this case?
I think this is one of those moments when we need to "play" the TRUST card! and not rely entirely on reasoning!
We've done that all these past 3 + years! We've questioned/doubted, researched, investigated, denied, accepted, etc...
Now, I definitely think we should just BELIEVE and be PATIENT! The end is close...and the truth will come out!

I cannot make an informed decision without all the information because to do so would be dismissing a very important lesson that Michael has been trying to teach people for years.

No matter what theory people decide to go for, nobody that has been dedicating his/her time in this hoax, all this time, nobody can say/accuse us of "dismissing Michael's lesson".
We are all winners no matter what the outcome of all this will turn out to be!  :woohoo2: :bearhug: Don't worry , be happy!  :multiplespotting:

[SimPattyK]

That's the part that gets me.  How does FBI involvement = sting = DWD patient?

Either I am too tired now or I just simply can't explain it more clear ....
But I think the answer to your question lies somewhere in those 2 quotes here below:

A DWD patient ended their own life and was not the victim of manslaughter,
therefore they are an "alleged victim"of manslaughter.

Since there was no manslaughter there also was no date for manslaughter to occur on...
...therefore it is an "alleged" date.

Yes, Adi...that makes perfect sense.  TS had asked us to think of what was alleged and what wasn't.  It makes sense that anything following the charge of manslaughter, which wasn't alleged, would have to be 'alleged' since there was no victim of manslaughter and no manslaughter took place on June 25th.
It also makes perfect sense that if the trial was only for a movie/entertainment purposes, there would've been absolutely no need to include the use of 'alleged' in the verdict.

[bec]

There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that. There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial. There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.

I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on. Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc. FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations. That's why I was asking if anyone wanted to organize a list of reasons or evidences for the sting theory, because proving it's validity is imperative to the strength of the DWD theory.

[Andrea]

That's the part that gets me.  How does FBI involvement = sting = DWD patient?

Either I am too tired now or I just simply can't explain it more clear ....
But I think the answer to your question lies somewhere in those 2 quotes here below:

A DWD patient ended their own life and was not the victim of manslaughter,
therefore they are an "alleged victim"of manslaughter.

Since there was no manslaughter there also was no date for manslaughter to occur on...
...therefore it is an "alleged" date.

Yes, Adi...that makes perfect sense.  TS had asked us to think of what was alleged and what wasn't.  It makes sense that anything following the charge of manslaughter, which wasn't alleged, would have to be 'alleged' since there was no victim of manslaughter and no manslaughter took place on June 25th.
It also makes perfect sense that if the trial was only for a movie/entertainment purposes, there would've been absolutely no need to include the use of 'alleged' in the verdict.

Thank you for those quotes, I had read them before as well.  A sting can still happen without a dead body and that verdict can be read in a number of different ways, as shown in this thread.  I understand the aspects of both theories (DWD vs no DWD), I really do.  Both theories are missing that one piece of incontrovertible incriminating evidence.  Which seems deliberate now that I think about it.  No wonder Front got the popcorn out!

[voiceforthesilent]

There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that. There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial. There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.

I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on. Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc. FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations. That's why I was asking if anyone wanted to organize a list of reasons or evidences for the sting theory, because proving it's validity is imperative to the strength of the DWD theory.

Bec - you and Andrea make a great point. I've been thinking about this as well. Just because we see the FBI involvement doesn't mean it's a sting.

But what I've been thinking is this - Marlon wore the FBI hat which made us look the direction of FBI (at least it did for me). Was that before or after the files were released? Anyways, it was supposedly Charles Thomson that asked for the FBI files to be released and that has made me wonder for a long time whether he's somehow involved. I know he's somewhat controversial but he's done is part in helping with the vindication efforts.

I guess what I've pondered is that maybe the references to the FBI has more to do with the files and 333 pages released, including the intended release date then it does the actual involvement of the organization.

If it's a sting maybe the FBI has been investigating those that were trying to exhort money from MJ? I know it's been quiet and Jordan's dad committed suicide (on 11/5??) but maybe the sting/investigation is surrounding the ones that led the efforts of false accusation. I need to get to bed but will think about this even though my efforts will be weak because I don't support the sting theory.

Blessings

[wishingstar]

"alleged" backwards is "degella"
degella shows up on these photos, which I think we have seen listed:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/michael-jacksons-ladies/images/22529955/title/mj-de-gella-fanart

*not my cup of tea website, btw.....I think it's kinda odd, as in really odd.  But thought I'd post it.......
we have the play on the word "manslaughter" to "mans laughter" ....just thinking outside the box.

Blessings Always

[emulik]

I think the "popcorn"-.gif was a reaction of Front, because we wrote 3 or 4 pages full of comments, that we were so excited for TS' post.
NOT that he was smiling about a (possible) DWD patient.

exactly what I was thinking!

@everyone..great team work, I just love your brainstorming!  :bearhug:

@Sim...you are right, December 22 appears very often in your montage, it seems to be a special date  :icon_razz:

[ellyd]

"alleged" backwards is "degella"
degella shows up on these photos, which I think we have seen listed:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/michael-jacksons-ladies/images/22529955/title/mj-de-gella-fanart

*not my cup of tea website, btw.....I think it's kinda odd, as in really odd.  But thought I'd post it.......
we have the play on the word "manslaughter" to "mans laughter" ....just thinking outside the box.

Blessings Always

Thanks for the laugh of the day.
Gella De

Wonder how many more masterpieces went unnoticed to date.

[Adi]

"alleged" backwards is "degella"
degella shows up on these photos, which I think we have seen listed:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/michael-jacksons-ladies/images/22529955/title/mj-de-gella-fanart

*not my cup of tea website, btw.....I think it's kinda odd, as in really odd.  But thought I'd post it.......
we have the play on the word "manslaughter" to "mans laughter" ....just thinking outside the box.

Blessings Always

Thanks for the laugh of the day.
Gella De

Wonder how many more masterpieces went unnoticed to date.

Shows off their Photo Shop skills   :fresse:

[MJonmind]

Wish, so I guess in the case of this MJ website they show 'alleged' relationships with MJ.  :icon_razz:
The admin at MJJC apparently said MJ had sometimes visited and especially liked the threads of women telling how they felt about him...  :icon_lol:

Bec, are you saying we deserve a degree in Logic and Reasoning for our 4 years of intensive study?

Yes, all it would take was one 'aware' FBI agent for MJ's hoax, uh one who was well versed in numerology.
"Who would ever suspect that I was a federal agent."

Also Murray may be an agent as well.

Voice, it was not Charles Thomson who asked for the MJ files to be released but Brian Oxman. :icon_e_smile:

TS on May 2,11

In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance.
In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD).
In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used.
Even though level three is still unresolved, yet we can and should start investigating level four (The Sting).

So level three is not completed because "most agree that a corpse was not used". If we HAD agreed a corpse was used, we would have completed level 3.  :affraid:

[SimPattyK]

There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that.

I think the need was for Michael to create his validity/credibility as Back and Front on the forum.
I mean besides confirmations from the family, he verified himself... so to speak...

There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial.

Those pics were an important comforting visual clue for the fans who were (most of them) suffering and crying! To most those pics didn't meant anything at that time, they didn't realize it then (me neither! I was still in shock...and had tears in my eyes during the most moving moments of the memorial), but I think those pics , alongside the other numerous clues had a very strong calming effect on the few, but very observant fans who noticed them right then when it all happened.
I think this was Michael's purpose: to make at least a small amount of fans feel better when seeing them.

There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.

i must disagree here too. I think every single detail was carefully planned and thought before hand and everything MEANT something important. Nothing was done at hazard... nothing was superficial nor superfluous. Such a minutely prepared hoax cannot have useless elements in it! At least that's how I perceive it to be, that's how I perceive Michael..as the perfectionist he is and almost obsessed with details! I highly doubt anything was done just like that... for the sake of it! Everything was intended and charged with a definite scope and effect!

I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on.
Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc.

Could be! maybe! perhaps!
IMo the evidence presented by TS (not just in his last posts, but on all his posts on the FBI sting) contains much more certainty than those doubting "could be-s", even if TS clearly didn't tell us everything! either because he doesn't know everything (as he clearly said it) OR because he CAN'T tell us everything , not YET (because "The BEST is YET to come!")

FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations.

Yes of course, FBI operations are not uniquely/strictly focused on organizing STINGs.
But so far, throughout this hoax, we've seen many signs, clues and also direct hints made by TS and also by the family (LaToya), that at least in this death hoax, the FBI involvement is focused on a STING operation meant to reveal a conspiracy! the word conspiracy had been mentioned countless times by Michael and his family in numerous interviews!!
A conspiracy of that caliber (2 false allegation trials + money extortion + album sabotage - "Invincible" + death threats + media bashing) can only be stopped with the help/involvement of an authority such as FBI and the best "modus-operandi" in such cases is the STING!
TS dedicated 2 levels and several large posts on the subject of FBI and the STING!
I think we should NOT dismiss this as just a mere 'TS-prank/test".
he may have "played' with us here and there, throwing some small false leads to us, to check if we follow that blindly or we use our logic!
But I doubt he had invested so much time and energy on this them (FBI - sting operation) just for all to be a farse for us!
That's why the DWD theory seems to be the most plausible of all! because in such serious case, for such a sting, FBI doesn't "play with dolls/dummies and other weak materials like that! things HAD to be as REAL as possible!!! FBI never leaves place for mistakes! they don't want to compromise the work of so many people (most paid with public money) by working with "plastic-patients" !
PLUS: remember, we still don't have all the subjects targeted by this sting! Who knows what dark affairs FBI intends to uncover/prove/de-conspire through the use of the DWD practice!!

[SimPattyK]

@Sim...you are right, December 22 appears very often in your montage, it seems to be a special date  :icon_razz: 

YEP! that date occurs quite often in hoax-related events!
I think we should pay more attention to it, even if so far December 22 didn't seem a like BAM-date!
I don't know why, but I am having this feeling... this number 22 = 11 + 11 ...this thread dated 11-11-11, then we have the 9/11 attacks...there's something about 11 ...and there are still some things that made me just ponder more on this date of 22 !! can't put my finger on it right now... But ever since I saw @mindseye's post regarding numerology of December 22... I felt like 'the penny dropped' kind of feeling, you know what I mean!?

"alleged" backwards is "degella"
degella shows up on these photos, which I think we have seen listed:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/michael-jacksons-ladies/images/22529955/title/mj-de-gella-fanart

*not my cup of tea website, btw.....I think it's kinda odd, as in really odd.  But thought I'd post it.......
we have the play on the word "manslaughter" to "mans laughter" ....just thinking outside the box.

ROFL  :thjajaja121:

Yes, all it would take was one 'aware' FBI agent for MJ's hoax, uh one who was well versed in numerology.
"Who would ever suspect that I was a federal agent."

YES  :icon_bounce: YES  :icon_bounce: YES  :icon_bounce:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Yes but if Michael has been threaten so many times and I am not doubting it, how the heck is he gonna reappear in public? who can tell him that he is not gonna have more threats in a future?  :omg:

Agree. Jmo, but I think he will always need a tight level of security regardless if he bams or never does.
Someone of his status are always open target.

#not fair!

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that. There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial. There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.

I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on. Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc. FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations. That's why I was asking if anyone wanted to organize a list of reasons or evidences for the sting theory, because proving it's validity is imperative to the strength of the DWD theory.

Bec - you and Andrea make a great point. I've been thinking about this as well. Just because we see the FBI involvement doesn't mean it's a sting.

But what I've been thinking is this - Marlon wore the FBI hat which made us look the direction of FBI (at least it did for me). Was that before or after the files were released? Anyways, it was supposedly Charles Thomson that asked for the FBI files to be released and that has made me wonder for a long time whether he's somehow involved. I know he's somewhat controversial but he's done is part in helping with the vindication efforts.

I guess what I've pondered is that maybe the references to the FBI has more to do with the files and 333 pages released, including the intended release date then it does the actual involvement of the organization.

If it's a sting maybe the FBI has been investigating those that were trying to exhort money from MJ? I know it's been quiet and Jordan's dad committed suicide (on 11/5??) but maybe the sting/investigation is surrounding the ones that led the efforts of false accusation. I need to get to bed but will think about this even though my efforts will be weak because I don't support the sting theory.

Blessings

@voice. Interesting post / perspective. I like :)

@adi - yeah 'memory' that's my main problem. I read a lot. Understatement! But it's retaining it all that is difficult. My ability to hold onto the fine technical (Esp numerical & names) information is a challenge for me. I admire the many on the forum who not only hold onto the information, but are able to look it up in their memory like a telefax and quote verbatim on demand. Flaws me!

My short term memory is a shocker! I am def a visual person. Love pictures and montages (thanks sim!)

@ Btc, I think a lot of the 'forgetting' isn't deliberate. There are some that genuinely struggle to remember everything.

Having said that just want to say how much I value this place and how incredible you all are and your research!

#doin MJ proud - smartest fans!