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[Thriller4ever]

I want to ask again, is there anyone who supports the FBI involvement theory who can list 12 reasons/evidences for the theory?

I'm stuck on #1. 333 pages in 7 files released by FBI on 12/21/09. And that's where the list runs dry for me. Anyone want to help?

Bec, I don't really think that FBI is going to plant clues to let us know that it is helping Michael...that's kind of confidential. TS said that forums were to help Michael against any entrapment, and that's where our role starts and kind of ends (  ::) ). But I feel FBI is not gonna reveal it's involvement until Bam..

And if you really wanna  talk about clues, then that 333 pages document is the only clue we are having right now...

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

@btc. Not sure if directed at me, but my FBI comments are genuine. I have missed some FBI stuff (latecomer to forum & recent deaths in family meant time away) which is why I said I'm personally going to go back to it. And I meant on my own time by more reading not debating it. But again, unsure if your post was to me.  :icon_e_wink:

I def don't believe that anyone who believes DWD / body doesn't think them themselves. Not in the slightest. That would def be offensive. So luckily it's not what is being implied.

And I'm not sure what's being taken as offensive, I'm confused about that. Maybe I missed it but I couldn't see anyone making light of DWD patient or their circumstances around their death.

With love n respect. And I do respect others right to DWD / body theory. It's just not working for me. If I'm wrong that's cool  :icon_e_smile:

Peace x

EDIT: I DID however say ppl are taking on body theory after TS' post. That I shouldn't have said as there have always been body theory believers. I apologise for that. It was a poor choice of words. I was trying to highlight a possible intention of TS might be a split in groups of theories to create confusion maintain mystery. Sorry  :icon_e_smile:

[ellyd]

I want to ask again, is there anyone who supports the FBI involvement theory who can list 12 reasons/evidences for the theory?

I'm stuck on #1. 333 pages in 7 files released by FBI on 12/21/09. And that's where the list runs dry for me. Anyone want to help?

[back in time mode on]
Don't know if this helps: the leaves in the ambulance photo were shopped in.  We discussed the leaves were pointing to the FBI logo and involvement. If I recall correctly, these leaves showed up on the outside of an ambulance drawer.
[back in time mode off]

If the leaves were shopped in (= artificially added) and don't have any other meaning than just adding reflections, making a photo more lively and driving us crazy at the time searching an impact where there was none, then the FBI notion may be out just to test our drawers.

[Love4Michael]

I think the popcorn gif was just acknowledgment (by means if humor) of the huge level of suspense or anxiousness that was obviously present on the forum while everyone waited for the TS post.  I thought it was funny as hell and I'm still not sure why some feel it necessary to try and over analyze the post to make it seem macabre in any way.  You all should know by now that Michael or anyone that's working with him in this would never make light of another persons passing...regardless of the timing. 

[bec]

Veiled insults and belittling I haven't detected. Sometimes I miss subtleties, however. I thought we were having some friendly discussions?

I guess my motive for wanting a list of reasons supporting FBI involvement is this: most of the reasons/evidences for the DWD theory rest upon a platform of FBI involvement, which means the validity of the DWD theory relies upon the validity of the the FBI theory and that makes me uncomfortable unless the first theory can be supported.

The reasons supporting the LiveMJ theory were also laid out over the pages of this thread, and there was an entire level devoted to who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance, yet TS_comments still asked me to compile the reasons into an organized list, which I thought was fun and interesting to do. I was just wondering if anyone would do the same for the FBI theory, since it seems to be the foundation for the DWD theory.

[bec]

I want to ask again, is there anyone who supports the FBI involvement theory who can list 12 reasons/evidences for the theory?

I'm stuck on #1. 333 pages in 7 files released by FBI on 12/21/09. And that's where the list runs dry for me. Anyone want to help?

[back in time mode on]
Don't know if this helps: the leaves in the ambulance photo were shopped in.  We discussed the leaves were pointing to the FBI logo and involvement. If I recall correctly, these leaves showed up on the outside of an ambulance drawer.
[back in time mode off]

If the leaves were shopped in (= artificially added) and don't have any other meaning than just adding reflections, making a photo more lively and driving us crazy at the time searching an impact where there was none, then the FBI notion may be out just to test our drawers.

I like your back in time mode  :icon_geek:

My take on the "leaf" pattern: since the pattern went over the paramedics arm, it's not part of the background pattern. Additionally, the pattern appeared in different levels of transparency in different frames. Where the pattern appeared over a shadow, it was darker. Where the pattern appeared over a light background, it was imperceptible. Since no existing on sight source for the pattern was detected, it could not be a reflection. The leaf pattern remained stationary in the frame even as the subjects changed very slight perspective (paramedic's knee/MJ's face). All of these points are proof that the pattern was layered over the background subject post-capture and not reflected. The pattern is able to effectively prove that the pic includes some sort of layering effect. Layering proves that the pic was created (altered) rather then simply captured on film during the shot.

Many US institutions contain various leaf patterns in their seals/logos. California state seal is an example. The FBI as well. US currency. But to date, the ambulance pic "leaf" pattern has not been identified as a match to any logo, seal, drawing, or existing image to date, other then also being a "leaf" type pattern. So far the pattern appears to be unique and not borrowed. It has the interesting attribute of also appearing to be a laughing or grinning man's face.

The conclusion that I accept as reasonable: the pattern was layered into the pic to provide proof that the pic was created, and not captured in the heat of the moment like the official story explains.

[ellyd]

Everything you said about the proof of layering the picture thus proof of creating it by composition is correct.
The discussion about the leaves started here:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=550#p315088

TS cropped the "rectangle handle part" of the drawer.
If "handle" means "execute", the leaves may represent the doing and the colouring was "grey in grey" thus hidden in twilight.
The a.m. is interpretation only, so don't go for that.

Any evidence for FBI involvement? These guys in court? Who are they?
They look familiar through the blurry effect: ressembling Mr. Schwarzenegger, Mr. Phillips and Mr. Sneddon.

[bec]

That's not Arnold Schwarzenegger. As a woman who's had a crush on him as long as she can remember I can attest to that (lol).

I don't know, they could be anyone. The FBI generally don't go around brandishing insignia's signifying who they are so the fact that these men are adorned with some sort of  uniform pin/broach is really more proof that they are not FBI agents, then proof that they are.

Here's some FBI agents at various press conferences:

Here's an FBI agent arriving at court:

FBI Special Agent in Charge in Phoenix, James Turgal, front, arrives at U.S. District Court

Here's an FBI agent escorting a suspect:

JetBlue pilot Clayton Frederick Osbon, right, is escorted to a waiting vehicle by FBI agents

Here are a couple of agents wearing American flag pins, a common type of pin worn by officials and heads of state in the US:

Mayor Mack under arrest being transferred to federal court by FBI Agents.

FBI agent on the left exiting federal court:

U.S. Attorney Jim Letten exits Federal Court to announce that former Plaquemines Parish sheriff JIff Hingle pleaded guilty to a count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and bribery, Wednesday, November 30, 2011. With Letten are, David W. Welker, FBI, Special Agent in Charge, left and Matt Chester, Assistant U.S. Attorney, right.

[MsTrinity333]

I just simply can't believe you guys are actually depressed and confused  :icon_eek:  :suspect: :animal0017: WTF!? :animal0017:

I guess I am the only one happy here, as I said in my long reply here to TS posts, to me there are many things that I understand better now, yet there are still some unclear things! mostly due to the FBI involvement and to the fact that as TS himself said it: not even MJ knows everything that happened "that day"!

So what more do you want? It's very clear! We won't have ALL the answers regarding what exactly happened on June 25th!
So what!??
That doesn't change the fact that Michael is alive and he's gonna BAM sooner or later by January 2013!

Come on guys cheer up!!
We've even had Front & TS acknowledging themselves on this same thread!! With TS blatantly telling us that Front = MJ!!
Isn't that reason enough to PARTY!!??  :penguin: :multiplespotting: :beerchug:

you said/wrote it right Sim, there is no reason to be sad, confused or in depression. It is not over yet! we are not in the end of hoax tunnel, some time still lefts..please be patient and we will see the result of Michael`s master plan.

I'M WITH YOU GUYS!  :michael-jackson: :multiplespotting:
IT'S NICE TO KNOW THERE'S VALIDATION FOR THOSE OF US WHO STUCK TO OUR GUNS CONCERNING THE BODY/CORPSE THEORY...  :TongueOutSmiley:
NOT TO MENTION FBI INVOLVEMENT OF A REAL STING GOING DOWN, NOT JUST MICHAEL'S ARTISTIC ONE. :elvis-1405:
THANK YOU SIM FOR KEEPING ME UPDATED ON FB.  :beerchug:

TO TS  :th_bravo: :th_bravo: :th_bravo: THANK YOU. :bowdown:

For all the rest of you guys... :bearhug: :bearhug: :bearhug:
Sorry I haven't been around much in the last year. Most of my energy has been focused in the Michael's Army of Love sub-forum. LIFE just gets in the way of your best laid plans.

[ellyd]

Type of, bec, type of, ;-)
And if showing them blurred (and in the background) was only meant to indicate the "grand stage" by props.
This is painting a scene from background to detail and from small to big.
Compare the photos you cited with the one from courtroom. Complete different attitude.
Those you showed us derive from journalism, giving facts.
Murray's handcuffing act is prose.

[SimPattyK]

A DWD patient ended their own life and was not the victim of manslaughter,
therefore they are an "alleged victim"of manslaughter.

Since there was no manslaughter there also was no date for manslaughter to occur on...
...therefore it is an "alleged" date.

Yes, Adi...that makes perfect sense.  TS had asked us to think of what was alleged and what wasn't.  It makes sense that anything following the charge of manslaughter, which wasn't alleged, would have to be 'alleged' since there was no victim of manslaughter and no manslaughter took place on June 25th.
It also makes perfect sense that if the trial was only for a movie/entertainment purposes, there would've been absolutely no need to include the use of 'alleged' in the verdict.

Perfect ladies, just perfect!!  :th_bravo:

I think the "popcorn"-.gif was a reaction of Front, because we wrote 3 or 4 pages full of comments, that we were so excited for TS' post.
NOT that he was smiling about a (possible) DWD patient.

+ 1  :icon_e_wink:
And I think one more reason for Front to post that gif, was that he was 'thrilled' and impatient to know how we'll react to TS' posts...  As Teddy Riley once said in an Oprah interview (using the lovely Present Tense, as usual  :icon_e_biggrin: :icon_albino: ): "Michael lives for controversy" . And I bet he's having a great time reading all our interesting strong OPPOSING opinions here! It's a continuous unexpected mood/debate around here... Nobody can complain of boredom right now, can they?  :icon_geek: :icon_lol:

There was an entire level dedicated to FBI involvement and also one devoted to hoax vs. sting court. Anyone is free to take a look back [. . . . ] There's been so many contributions by so many members here that keep getting ignored/overlooked (at best)....intentionally belittled with veiled insults (at worst)...that have addressed these very points.
[ . . . ]
TS provided 12 points in support of the DWD theory...addressing many of the objections...  but the same objections keep being brought up. So what's the point?
Again, for anyone genuinely interested in gaining a better understanding or different perspective...the forum is FULL of resources.

These repeated insinuations that 'people suddenly started believing/supporting the corpse theory' or that 'TS just started supporting the corpse theory' or 'dropped the DWD bomb'...are not only flat-out false (anyone who's been here awhile knows this) but they are also bordering on offensive because the underlining insinuation is that ONLY those NOT supporting the corpse theory have thought for themselves.  The members of this forum---both past and present---deserve much more respect than they are being shown. Not to mention the fact that REGARDLESS of what happened on June 25th, making light of ANY DWD patient's death or the circumstances surrounding their death and/or choices....is offensive and lacks tact and class.

End of rant...
With L.O.V.E. always.

OMGGG!! Please rant more often!!!
Love you sis' ! :bearhug:

[mindseye]

I'm having another number(s) momment.  :icon_lol:  Not sure if this has been discussed in the past already, but I decided to look  at the release date of the FBI documents, to see if there's a pattern - if it means there's a connection with FBI.

From Pepsi to death is 9282 days and add another 180 days that is 1-8=7  December 22, 2009 it's 9462 days =21  and 1351 weeks =10

From and including: Thursday, June 25, 2009
To and including: Tuesday, December 22, 2009
It is 181 days = 10
25 weeks = 7

From and including: Tuesday, December 22, 2009
To and including: Friday, December 21, 2012
It is 1096 days  =7
156 weeks  12

I've always wondered if CM number 2926725 = 33 and MJ 073164 is 73 =10 1 64=10 = 111 or 3  means anything.  :icon_e_confused:
29 mj birthday
26 7 ?  if there's 333 pages released out of 600 that's the difference of 267
25 death
:icon_eek:

[hesouttamylife]

Gosh darnitt, sounds like a winner to me.   :th_bravo:  DWD ended his OWN life; not the victim of manslaughter on any date.  Alleged victim, alleged crime, alleged date fits.  I agree 100%!

[SimPattyK]

There was an entire level dedicated to FBI involvement and also one devoted to hoax vs. sting court.  Anyone is free to take a look back at the MANY posts by MANY members who either supported the theories or rejected them...it's all there for anyone interested. [....]

In addition to all those dozens of forum pages ^^ ... maybe a few VISUAL arguments will help... regarding the DEATH THREATS & implicitly the FBI involvement (for those who still doubt Michael had received death threats).

Michael - death threats (FBI)

ELVIS- death threats (FBI)

---> Elvis Presley death hoax - Operation Fountain Pen - FBI case that led to Witness Protection Program

---> Elvis & Michael death hoax ~ Operation PHOENIX

---> The Presley Commission Report ~ Timeline: August 16, 1977

LINK 1

LINK 2

LINK 3

VARIOUS:

LINK 1
LINK 2
LINK 3
LINK 4
LINK 5

My reply to @Curls, few days ago

Why does FBI involvement automatically mean MJ was/is in danger and they were there for his protection, as some are saying here?

1. There are recordings posted on Youtube with Michael saying he was afraid for his life, in various occasions.

2. There are videos on Youtube with members of Michael's family saying countless times that there was a conspiracy against him, that "they were trying to murder him".

If you don't believe Michael and his family, then WHO do you believe?

3. TS stressed on the Illuminati theory for a reason! That means those people were infiltrated in his entourage from the music industry, trying to get his catalog/fortune/Neverland by all means!!

4. Michael was framed for those 2 trials!! If "they" were capable of doing that, do you guys seriously doubt that 'they" would hesitate to murder him ??

5. Do you think the FBI just sat on those false allegations and did NOTHING? Do you think they had so many files on Michael just for nothing?? It was said in those files his life was in danger!! It is said on those files that they had found nothing to incriminate Michael!!

How on Earth you can doubt that his life was in danger??
Do you think the FBI would get involved in Michael's hoax, just to have some fun!?? of course there was a SERIOUS MOTIVE!! Life threatening IS a serious motive!! + Financial fraud!! which most of the music industry sharks did to Michael!

6. And then...don't forget about ELVIS !!! Michael wasn't the only one to have received help from the FBI to fake his death to save his life!! Elvis and his family have received numerous death threats too prior to 1977!!

[Jos]

I think the popcorn gif was just acknowledgment (by means if humor) of the huge level of suspense or anxiousness that was obviously present on the forum while everyone waited for the TS post.  I thought it was funny as hell and I'm still not sure why some feel it necessary to try and over analyze the post to make it seem macabre in any way.  You all should know by now that Michael or anyone that's working with him in this would never make light of another persons passing...regardless of the timing. 

Indeed, that was what I was trying to say