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[bec]

Good, because I've been enjoying all this immensely!  And boy can I ever smell smoke from all the brains fired up and working hard! :icon_lol:

Yah me too. I really dig this stuff.

I wear my heart on my sleeve, it's a character flaw, but I wouldn't trade this journey for anything.

[hesouttamylife]

It is truly thought provoking and fascinating.  I'm enjoying it too, Bec  :icon_e_wink:

[SimPattyK]

It is truly thought provoking and fascinating.  I'm enjoying it too, Bec  :icon_e_wink:

+1  :icon_e_wink:

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

It's actually funny to see the progression of things here....human nature at its finest.  People have constantly asked TS to 'help' us figure stuff out, which he has repeatedly done.  So, he helps by giving us supporting evidence in favor of the corpse theory, while showing some points against other theories....ALL of which everyone was free to then research on their own, without taking his word for it.  Reaction:  People don't believe him.

With respect BTC, I'm beginning to think it is not a negative thing. TS encouraged us in the past (can't find the quote) to doubt and not trust him in order to find truth. (not verbatim)

He encouraged this reaction.

Edit: BTC, I saw your comment re: encourage us to doubt him, on top of page 137 after I did this post  :icon_e_wink:

It doesn't matter one bit what our personal views are about a DWD patient having been used....nor does it matter if we believe this is what happened or not.  And that's all that keeps getting posted by those who don't believe TS....page after page of personal opinions and NO solid evidence against anything TS said.

Again, with respect. a) TS can't provide solid proof of body either. b) He precursored it with DA.

Also the disagreement with body theory (speaking for me anyways) has nothing to do with DWD opinion. Its about the doubt that has been created / encouraged by TS combined with no conclusive 'evidence' to eliminate entirely other theories or substantiate his theories. They are all just theories still with no solid evidence. Which I might add, 'evidence' or rather the 'lack of' has been a running theme through this entire hoax.

Moving on to Bec's comment previously that "The purpose isn't to find out what happened". It then makes me wonder if the (TS's) purpose is to simply create a split / multiple groups of people holding to their theories, for the simple reason of a) MJ's delight in us not knowing what really happened. You know, post Bam and all that, and you still have groups of people racking their brains how it was done. b) 'A magician never reveals his tricks' to maintain some mystery about how he did it. (Trademark MJ)

If a corpse, body, dummy, live MJ was used, it is inconsequential to 'how hoaxers feel' ... its all the same goal -  entertainment / Mystery

It seems that the old 'have-everybody-in-on-it' cop out clause has been replaced by an 'it-was-FBI-so-we'll-never-understand' excuse, when facing the unexplainable.[/size] I'm not trying to be awkward here, I really am stuck. I'll shut up now!

@ Curls, agree with you. FBI involvement card is justification for everything / anything as well as a "shut down" for any non-explainables.
I do agree that MJ has friends in high places. The PR photos speak for themselves. Personally I am very iffy on FBI and Obama involvement. (If I am wrong, then so be it)

MJ is the master the driver if you will. He is in control and no doubt we know MJ is ALWAYS the star of the show. It just raised questions for me such as, : If this is for entertainment purposes, Thriller II, greatest show on earth etc, would MJ want to source the assistance of FBI / Obama? Historically, MJ is a one man show. If this was for entertainment purposes, wouldn't Obama involvement for Obama himself be risky (PR wise)?

However IT does sound logical, and IT does sound like MJ to have lots of uncertainty surrounding him all different tangents going off at once to create mystery and secrecy and keep us watching. MJ has never in the past said, oh "I was faking it in the wheel chair" or "Let me explain this publicity stunt" or "Ok, I'll reveal how I manipulated you here" He has always left us guessing.

I think the purpose of the whole dummy / Live MJ / body / FBI / clues and guessing game is to create confusion, uncertainty and preserve mystery. We don't know all of what happenned 25/6 but we do KNOW it is what MJ does. (Confusion / Uncertainty) It's why ppl are still talking about Pepsi incident in 2012. It's why we still talk about the hyperbaric chamber, its why people say he was frail and deathly around TII and yet others say in immaculate health and form.

Deliberate confusion. That is all.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

I seriously think we've all passed that period when he was teaching us to think for ourselves!

With respect Sim, I don't think that lesson EVER has an expiry date...

As Paris once said: "Why can't you just believe!?"

Again, with respect, "So we should believe everything TS, The Jackson Family say, when all together everything that different family members say amongst themselves and then further combined with what TS says is all contradiction of each other? I believe her comment is simply regarding MJ not being dead. Not about theories or TS or even what family say because it's all a jumble.

1. I highly doubt that TS is only playing with us right now! There's no tIME left for games and for "lessons" now!

@Sim, one could argue that this is the ideal time to 'play' with us - to cause the very disturbance that is now apparent .... before the climax! Can't be having us all quietly sitting here drumming our fingers! But I'm not going to labour the point!  What happened happened, what will be will be.  My thoughts, and those of anyone else here, make not one jot of difference in the great scheme of things.

@ curls. I think you are spot on. Perfect time to create FRESH doubt / uncertainty. Breathe new life into old theories.

Afterall he mentioned it recently that he might lead us down the wrong path or verify things that didn't really happen. I am guessing if one was just about to serve answers on a silver platter, you don't deliberately create doubt just before you get the answers... It like hearing your teacher give out the answers at the end of a test so you can grade yourself, (like in elementary school) and the teacher says "Ok, the correct answer question to the algebra question MIGHT be "8" " LOL

:icon_mrgreen:

Bec

There are people here who supported the dead body theory or the DWD theory, why didn't he ask them to lay out their reasons?

I tend to think that Body theory was the least popular and naturally most controversial. TS laying out answers for Body theory has given body theory new life, more popularity and now there are people who believe body theory that didn't before, they were solid on other theories.  Goal: Confusion / uncertainty. Result: Achieved!

Sounds like our MJ huh?

Why did we ever think TS was going to give us answers on the correct theory (dummy / live or whatever it may be) Of course he is going to give us the answers on the false theory... Trademark MJ - Manipulate / Play with audience..

The more I think of it the more sense it makes that he would confirm an incorrect theory! (That's if one believes MJ is behind TS or at the least someone from MJ camp)

Meh, I reconcile TS body theory confirmation with "It's all a game / entertainment" and is more than likely another 'falsehood' which is "allowed" in the rules of entertainment / art / ARG.

Re: Heart on sleeve. It's not a flaw. It's honesty. I am much the same  :icon_e_wink:

[BeTheChange]

@Aussie...thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I have shared mine in many, many posts lol...so I'm not going to rehash it all again (this back and forth over the SAME points is getting tiring, at least for me).  But will say that you've taken some things I've said out of context...i.e. I never said that disagreeing was a 'negative' thing, in fact, I said the complete opposite in a further post...perhaps you missed it.

As for MJ having pulled all this off on his own (cause 'he's a one-man show'), without the help of some high-ranking govt office(s), IMO, is the 'loftiest' theory yet when ALL the events of the last 3 1/2 years are taken into account.   But I guess anything's possible.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

@Aussie...thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I have shared mine in many, many posts lol...so I'm not going to rehash it all again (this back and forth over the SAME points is getting tiring, at least for me).  But will say that you've taken some things I've said out of context...i.e. I never said that disagreeing was a 'negative' thing, in fact, I said the complete opposite in a further post...perhaps you missed it.

I know hun. I just edited my post before you did this post above. Please see edit note on my post.

Na not taking it out of context. Never said *you said* it was a negative thing. I was thinking to me "perhaps its not a negative thing" because of reason X that TS gave in the past.

:smiley_abuv:

It is tiring. I'm not intending to debate. Trust me don't have the energy, not up for it as its stinking hot here in Australia, LOL. I'm more commenting that perhaps the "debate / uncertainty" is the purpose rather than "solving it".

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

As for MJ having pulled all this off on his own (cause 'he's a one-man show'), without the help of some high-ranking govt office(s), IMO, is the 'loftiest' theory yet when ALL the events of the last 3 1/2 years are taken into account.   But I guess anything's possible.

Agree he would need resources and resources with pull. Absolutely court / UCLA / Autopsy perhaps or perhaps not. I find Obama / FBI far fetched. If hoax plans started in Bad era, how could he have known who was going to be president in hoax period? Again, happy to be wrong. If I am, I am ok with that.

LOVE YOU MJ - THANKS FOR THE SHOW!!!!  :bearhug:

[BeTheChange]

@Aussie, haha...I didn't see your 'edit' before I hit send  :icon_razz:

Ya, very tiring and I'm one of the ones 'okay' with the corpse theory lol, go figure.  If it is all just for confusion/distraction, we do it to ourselves...and we've become masters at it  :icon_lol:

Be grateful for the heat...I'm freezing my a$$ off here!

:smiley_abuv:

Edit: This time I saw your post before sending mine lol.  I'm not convinced of an Obama connection either...but I do think there's been several pieces pointing to FBI involvement.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

Hmm, sunset. It's possible. But if that were the case, I wonder why he didn't post it on the thread(s) devoted to the news reports of Joe's stroke? There were many people on those threads wondering if it were true and hoping these were false reports and wishing Mr. Jackson the best just in case. Yet he came to the TIAI thread where we are predominantly tossing around the DWD theory and waiting for TS, who supports the DWD theory, to post the completion of Level 7, to give us a sign that reports of Joe's stroke was BS? Most of us think TS/TS_comments?Front all work for the same team, Front must have known what TS_comments was about to post... so I don't know.

OMG OMG OMG now I actually GET the popcorn pic.... Its all making sense.... TS confirmed wrong theory deliberately! I think you are right Bec...

I was the one who suggested popcorn pic was confirmation Joe was ok, and what the hell would I know?!?! (But no didn't ask for a sign)

P.s Sorry for post bombing this thread peeps. Pls forgive. x

[SimPattyK]

@Aussie: With respect, I think we agreed to disagree... the other day...
Yet you quote me today.... and I'm not gonna reply to that.

I just don't like endless contradictions, I don't like where this is going to.
I hope we can both continue to post on this thread our own different opinions without any of that ^^

@Curls said very well earlier today: "What happened happened, what will be will be.  My thoughts, and those of anyone else here, make not one jot of difference in the great scheme of things."

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

@Aussie: With respect, I think we agreed to disagree... the other day...
Yet you quote me today.... and I'm not gonna reply to that.

Hun, that's what we do on the forum we quote and reply. It's not malicious. I was pointing out that there is a counter viewpoint to "thinking for yourself" I can assure you I am being genuine. If anyone else had made the comment I would have quoted it. I mean no harm.

I hope we can both continue to post on this thread our own different opinions without any of that ^^

Sim, You're the queen of quote / repsond. (not being facetious) That's why I thought you'd be ok with that style of interaction. But if I am getting that you are not ok with it then I'll be more careful how I interact with you and be more sensitive.

:bearhug:

[SimPattyK]

 :icon_eek:

NO comment!

[Adi]

As for the alleged date - the DWD patient could have ingested the medication and died the day/night prior on June 24th so therefore June 25th is an "alleged" date.

The popcorn gif Front posted here ......I just took it as him being a smart a*se and making fun of so many of us waiting in anticipation for TS to post...some had been hanging on all day  lol.....if it  does mean something else then maybe I am just cold hearted and didn't read it that way..

We could go round and round and round for ever with these musings....could be another Level perhaps   :icon_lol:  except I don't have any remaining energy to try to work out what that popcorn gif meant   :icon_lol:    :over-react-smiley:

[bec]

Hmm, sunset. It's possible. But if that were the case, I wonder why he didn't post it on the thread(s) devoted to the news reports of Joe's stroke? There were many people on those threads wondering if it were true and hoping these were false reports and wishing Mr. Jackson the best just in case. Yet he came to the TIAI thread where we are predominantly tossing around the DWD theory and waiting for TS, who supports the DWD theory, to post the completion of Level 7, to give us a sign that reports of Joe's stroke was BS? Most of us think TS/TS_comments?Front all work for the same team, Front must have known what TS_comments was about to post... so I don't know.

OMG OMG OMG now I actually GET the popcorn pic.... Its all making sense.... TS confirmed wrong theory deliberately! I think you are right Bec...

I was the one who suggested popcorn pic was confirmation Joe was ok, and what the hell would I know?!?! (But no didn't ask for a sign)

P.s Sorry for post bombing this thread peeps. Pls forgive. x

Don't apologize, rather, please continue. It's a message board. What kind of place would it be if people all posted one time and then left?? A no fun place that's what kind.

MAYBE that's what the popcorn gif was about, yes, sure, maybe he waiting to see our reaction to this allegedly contrived theory and was looking forward to it. I think we can all agree that he wasn't happily chomping popcorn over the prospects of the dearly departed being officially introduced to his dear hoaxers for the first time, that's for sure.

On the topic of FBI involvement and the signs for that, the only sign that I can think of off the top of my head is the 7 files and 333 pages of FBI files released on 12/21/09. I agree one key person needed to be cooperating with MJ to make that happen. Also, I agree that the FBI may have been contacted to grant clearance and give permission (basically) for some aspects of the hoax, court being one of them I would imagine. But as far as the FBI conducting a sting, is there anyone who supports this theory who can provide a list of reasons, or signs, of an FBI sting operation like I did for the LiveMJ theory?