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Andrea

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 08:33:47 AM
I think the guilty verdict makes sense considering the majority of the world still thinks Michael is dead.  This verdict satisfies the non-believers, gives them a bit of the "justice" they've been wanting.  It's temporary but it's enough to convince them that they were "right".  I think we've established that the guilty verdict is part of the hoax script and is necessary to move to the next level.  Michael's return will shock/amaze/humble the world and make people question other "truths" they've been led to believe.

I highly doubt that Murray is sitting in a jail cell right now.  If Michael is to BAM before Jan 1 2013 then we've already waited longer for his return than the time left remaining.  Ready when you are Michael!
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 09:15:27 AM
I posted a pdf file of the 'jury instructions' a few pages back but I'm not sure if people actually read them.  Based on those instructions, I honestly cannot see how this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' of involuntary manslaughter.  I may be missing something entirely or maybe misinterpreting the instructions (specifically the definition(s) under the 'Charged Crime' section)....but based on THOSE instructions/definitions, IMO the jury came up with the 'right' verdict (ANY jury that would've followed THOSE instructions in this case, would've and should've found any DOCTOR 'guilty' of involuntary manslaughter...regardless of age, sex, nationality, etc).

Some are getting 'caught up' on the 'fatal dose' issue...but again, the instructions are VERY clear in that even IF MJ administered the 'fatal dose' himself, or some other person came in and injected MJ with it, Murray CAN still be guilty IF he should have been able to 'foresee' the possibility of this happening.  Based on Murray's own statement(s), he said he knew Mike 'liked to push it', he also knew there were others in the house, and he also knew that the room was littered with drugs.  So the 'fatal dose' factor is a non-issue with a charge of involuntary manslaughter....IF he was being charged with murder, then the 'reasonable doubt' as to who administered the fatal dose would've and should've come into play....but he was not charged with that crime.  Again, the instructions are VERY clear on this issue.

Like others, I tend to think that the DA is in on it (even if just Walgren) based on the 'odd' things that were said and done in court.  But this 'script' was SO rock-solid for a guilty verdict (with the added bonus of a seemingly incompetant defense team)...that it probably wouldn't even have been necessary to have the DA in on it in order to ensure a guilty verdict.  Based on what was presented in court (i.e. the 17 deviations from the standard of care, which were in many instances extreme deviations) the ONLY way IMO that this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' is if they either didn't understand the instructions OR they intentionally went against them.

Which takes us to the part in the instructions where the judge makes it VERY clear to the jury what they are 'allowed' to consider in their deliberations and what they're not...and the ONLY things they are to consider is ONLY what has been presented in court.  It's 'easy' for us to notice discrepancies, inconsistencies, and/or outright 'fake' evidence...but we SEE everything through 'hoax-eyes'.  It's hard to unring a bell once it's been rung...we have been awakened to all of the BS.  Given the fact that 99% of the world thinks Mike is dead...odds are that all, or at least most, of the jury did too.  But even IF they noticed that something wasn't quite right (and again, this would be difficult or 99% of the world wouldn't think Mike is dead)...but even IF they decided, for example, that the autopsy photo didn't look 'quite right' or any other 'evidence' presented in court for that matter....under THE LAW they are NOT allowed to look further into it on their own.  The instructions, again, are VERY clear on this and we've discussed this very fact in this thread.  The jury would've had to intentionally violate the instructions (the law) in order to research the 'oddities'....and IF they came back with a not guilty verdict based on their OWN research, the case is an automatic mistrial.  It's a catch-22...in order to find the truth, they would've had to break the law....in breaking the law, the 'system' deems their 'truth' irrelevant.

And THAT, in itself, should shed light on one of the major flaws in the judicial system where juries are involved. 

This is all just my opinion of course, but what the jury's verdict tells me is that they followed the law of the 'system' in making their decision....a 'system' that greatly limits a jury's ability to 'think for themselves'.

With L.O.V.E. always.
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The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 09:22:21 AM
What do you mean - even if MJ pushed it himself, Murtay would still be guilty of involuntary manslaughter?!
What kind of justice is this smiley_spider?
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 09:34:15 AM
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I posted a pdf file of the 'jury instructions' a few pages back but I'm not sure if people actually read them.  Based on those instructions, I honestly cannot see how this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' of involuntary manslaughter.  I may be missing something entirely or maybe misinterpreting the instructions (specifically the definition(s) under the 'Charged Crime' section)....but based on THOSE instructions/definitions, IMO the jury came up with the 'right' verdict (ANY jury that would've followed THOSE instructions in this case, would've and should've found any DOCTOR 'guilty' of involuntary manslaughter...regardless of age, sex, nationality, etc).

Some are getting 'caught up' on the 'fatal dose' issue...but again, the instructions are VERY clear in that even IF MJ administered the 'fatal dose' himself, or some other person came in and injected MJ with it, Murray CAN still be guilty IF he should have been able to 'foresee' the possibility of this happening.  Based on Murray's own statement(s), he said he knew Mike 'liked to push it', he also knew there were others in the house, and he also knew that the room was littered with drugs.  So the 'fatal dose' factor is a non-issue with a charge of involuntary manslaughter....IF he was being charged with murder, then the 'reasonable doubt' as to who administered the fatal dose would've and should've come into play....but he was not charged with that crime.  Again, the instructions are VERY clear on this issue.

Like others, I tend to think that the DA is in on it (even if just Walgren) based on the 'odd' things that were said and done in court.  But this 'script' was SO rock-solid for a guilty verdict (with the added bonus of a seemingly incompetant defense team)...that it probably wouldn't even have been necessary to have the DA in on it in order to ensure a guilty verdict.  Based on what was presented in court (i.e. the 17 deviations from the standard of care, which were in many instances extreme deviations) the ONLY way IMO that this jury could've found Murray 'not guilty' is if they either didn't understand the instructions OR they intentionally went against them.

Which takes us to the part in the instructions where the judge makes it VERY clear to the jury what they are 'allowed' to consider in their deliberations and what they're not...and the ONLY things they are to consider is ONLY what has been presented in court.  It's 'easy' for us to notice discrepancies, inconsistencies, and/or outright 'fake' evidence...but we SEE everything through 'hoax-eyes'.  It's hard to unring a bell once it's been rung...we have been awakened to all of the BS.  Given the fact that 99% of the world thinks Mike is dead...odds are that all, or at least most, of the jury did too.  But even IF they noticed that something wasn't quite right (and again, this would be difficult or 99% of the world wouldn't think Mike is dead)...but even IF they decided, for example, that the autopsy photo didn't look 'quite right' or any other 'evidence' presented in court for that matter....under THE LAW they are NOT allowed to look further into it on their own.  The instructions, again, are VERY clear on this and we've discussed this very fact in this thread.  The jury would've had to intentionally violate the instructions (the law) in order to research the 'oddities'....and IF they came back with a not guilty verdict based on their OWN research, the case is an automatic mistrial.  It's a catch-22...in order to find the truth, they would've had to break the law....in breaking the law, the 'system' deems their 'truth' irrelevant.

And THAT, in itself, should shed light on one of the major flaws in the judicial system where juries are involved. 

This is all just my opinion of course, but what the jury's verdict tells me is that they followed the law of the 'system' in making their decision....a 'system' that greatly limits a jury's ability to 'think for themselves'.

With L.O.V.E. always.

I must have completely missed that post BTC...thank you for posting it....I am off to work at the moment, but will read them asap :) today.  From what little I know about how juries work, I can totally see your points......I had posted that LA Fire Dept handbook/log about how to fill out that paramedic report.....it too was full of contradictions and errors technically.  LOVE U....miss chatting....will talk to you later today for sure ;)

Blessings....gotta run...
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 09:40:53 AM
@Gina...this was not a murder trial, therefore, under the law/definition of involuntary manslaughter, the 'fatal dose' and who administered it is irrelevant when ALL of Murray's other actions and/or failures are taken into consideration.

Here is the relevant part in the instructions referencing this...and prior to this part in the instructions, the judge instructed the jury that THE LAW states that Murray, as MJ's doctor, had a legal duty to his patient (this is a recognized and undisputable 'fact' under the law).

Quote (selected)
There may be more than one cause of death.  An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death.  A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor.  However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.

To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence.  A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.

The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death.  However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.

If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.

Here's the link to the jury instructions for anyone interested:
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@WishingStar...I miss our chatting too!!!  I had put a lot of things 'on hold' in order to watch as much of the trial as I could....and now I'm backtracking to deal with them all lol, so I too have been busy.  Hope to catch up soon  bearhug  Love you!

@WhiteNight...I just read your post and gotta say I loved it!  Thanks for sharing.

With L.O.V.E. always.
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The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

*

curls

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 10:02:16 AM
BeTheChange, great post about the jury instructions regarding involuntary manslaughter - just what I've been trying to say, but you put it so well. Thanks!
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curls

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 10:17:26 AM
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Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated.  We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court.  It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know?  We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice?  Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive.  We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer.  If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH.  We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now.  LOVE to all of you!!!!

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That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?

I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 10:18:57 AM
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BeTheChange, great post about the jury instructions regarding involuntary manslaughter - just what I've been trying to say, but you put it so well. Thanks!

Yup...it's all in the instructions.  And IF there was any 'doubts' among the jury prior to deliberations, those instructions pretty much 'sealed the deal' for them.  We are now hearing from jurors, which is not unusual (I was actually thinking they would've been given the option to speak right after the verdict in a 'press room' as I've seen done with other trials)....and at least one of them is saying that it was a quick, unanimous decision (no surprise there).  I'm sure they were ready to render their verdict on the 4th....but since they didn't there's two possible options: 1) they are 'in on it' and therefore waited until the 7th so that it would 'fit' better with the numerology, or 2) they are not 'in on it' and were somehow made to postpone the verdict until the 7th (i.e. they could have been asked/told by the court to wait until Monday for whatever reason...and if so, they really wouldn't have had much choice).  Either option, though, clearly points to a purposeful reading of the verdict on the 7th, which supports the 'hoax'.  This is not only in regards to the date...but to the time of the verdict as well.

With L.O.V.E. always.
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The beauty of Michael Jackson is found in his heart and soul...his enormous talent is a bonus and what a bonus it is.

~PLAY the moments...PAUSE the memories...STOP the pain...REWIND the happiness~

*

bec

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 10:37:27 AM
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Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting? ;)

No, I've said for a year now I don't believe there is an FBI sting going on... the only set up for a sting I see is a sting against the media, the general public, and MJ's own fans. The Fan sting I started talking about when the Michael album came out with it's "fake" lyrics.
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Are you entertained?

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Shining light

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 02:25:35 PM
You must unlearn what you have learned!  /overreacting/   OK this is only my opinion on why this might have been posted. Maybe it is preparation for what is coming our way. Maybe everything we have learned is not the truth. Maybe everything we learned since the pepsi incident is not what we think it is. Michael changed so much after that supposed accident. This is only a opinion but what if he did have someone take over for him because he felt that someone was out to get him.Everything we learned has been from the media, as None of us sadly really don't know him personally. every thing we all know is all media connected. even though we know the media lies,all we really know about him is through them. So why cant every story we know about the man be a total fabrication him being a drug addict/lisa mary presley/elephant man bones/Hyperbaric Chamber/the list goes on and on. We all  maybe have to learn that we really know nothing and the truth will truly shock us because we will find out we have been fooled since the very beginning of this roller coaster ride. It would not be a surprise to me if the wrong person got killed that day and the real Michael holds all the cards right now. Everything we may have learned maybe will show us  that these media stories we see on television are nothing but Hollywood productions in themselves and Michael caught them and us Hook,Line and Sinker.
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
I wonder if this trial was a part of Hoax?
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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 02:46:45 PM
TS is online, so hopefully he'll post something now!  /woohoo/
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"What one wishes is to be touched by truth and to be able to interpret that truth so that one may use what one is feeling and experiencing, be it despair or joy, in a way that will add meaning to one\'s life and will hopefully touch others as well.
This is art in its highest form. Those moments of enlightenment are what i continue to live for." -Michael Jackson

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Do

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 02:47:52 PM
Dear MJ family,

I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!

What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!

I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!
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"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
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Dear MJ family,

I wanted to let you know that I'm still with you. Due to circumstances with work and friends it was not as intense as before but still I read (a little part of) the forum (almost) every day. I did not follow the trial day by day, so I am incredibly glad that, thanks to your extensive posts about it and also your thoughts about all other aspects, I'm still informed! I am so very grateful to all of you for this and I'm so impressed with all your research. I feel so guilty sometimes that I have not actively contributed that much in all of this lately. But I can not read all the topics. On an evening when I sit down I'm reading for a few hours and then I'm up to date in only one thread!

What I do want to say to Michael, if you ever decide to go with a whole new staff of employees, consider the loving ladies (and gentlemen?) here on the forum. I know and feel that there is no group of people more loving, loyal, devoted and honest around the world then you will find here. I'm sure these people are going through flames for you and it certainly gives you the peace you so deserve!

I will never lose my faith in you and I wait quietly but impatiently on your sign!

Hey Do!!!
It's great to see you....I had always enjoyed reading your posts.  I am glad to know you are still around and reading...lots to read for sure, lol. You are too sweet with your kind words.........what a bleepin' job interview process, lol!!!!!!   :lol:  But you do make an excellent point....the folks here are amazingly faithful to Michael and I think really do understand him well.  Like Michael says....learn from the best ;)  Thanks again......and great to see you!

Blessings!
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mjj4ever777

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Re: TIAI September 27
November 09, 2011, 03:09:53 PM
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Since the verdict I have become increasingly frustrated.  We, have hid in our corner, and for the most part only told each other what we KNOW. We watched an innocent man get convicted of a crime he did not commit and done nothing. I don't know if it was a real trial or a kangaroo court.  It sure as hell was presented to us as real wasn't it? I have enjoyed the hoax as much as anyone and will continue to do so but how long are we going to remain silent about what we know?  We are already considered nuts but some and are mostly dismissed by others so what do we have to lose by demanding truth as one collective voice?  Maybe, just maybe Michael wants us to do it. Maybe he told us once in a song...."I can't do it by myself." -Cry
Our numbers are massive.  We are everywhere. Every corner of the earth has a believer.  If we are to truly be Michael's Army of Love than we need to start acting like it by DEMANDING TRUTH.  We are the soldiers in TII's TDRCAU.
I have tons more to say on the subject but will leavewith this for now.  LOVE to all of you!!!!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  /bravo/








That's an interesting way to look at the current situation, Monster. If MJDHI were to write a collective letter to, I don't know who, the judge maybe, stating why we think the verdict was the wrong one, would that be action, interaction or interferance?

I tend to think there is no need, because believing in the hoax, I think MJ is in control and that the verdict is as he wants it - if not and he wants our help, he only has to ask - I'm pretty sure there are several here that he's in contact with!

You got that right Curls, and he is saying "Follow the path of L.O.V.E now" Not follow the "Hoax" path.

My beautiful family, I LOVE you all so very much, and it just breaks my heart that so many of you are still "desperately" entangled in Michael and God's "spider web". (hoax) Until you start "thinking outside the box" you will never understand, that the whole Hoax part of this adventure is irrelevant  in the Big picture.

The ultimate goal for Michael doing all of this, is to get us to re-evaluate our "lives" and to find that lost "LOVE" that is inside each and everyone of us!  The longer people continue on the "Hoax" part of this journey, the longer they are putting off finding out the "Truth",  of why Michael had to do what he had to do in order to get the world to "wake up" and see what their lives have become! The world will have no choice, BUT to look at everything they thought was a "reality" and realize that everything  was really just an "Illusion". When Michael sang "we are here to change the world", he meant it!!! When Michael said that this is "all for LOVE", he meant it!!!! When he said "I'm going to show them "Talent", like they've never seen before", he meant that also!!!!  The world isn't going to know what hit them!

If you are reading this, and you are still searching for answers, I am pleading with you to take a leap of Faith! If your current path isn't giving you the answers you've been searching for, why not "make a Change" and try another path??
A good investigator, looks at EVERY possibility...including the possibility, that Michael was sent to us by God, to help us transition into the next "age"...the "Golden age".

Is it just a "coincidence" that there are many of us here on this forum, who are sitting back, waiting and watching this all unfold, with no FEAR, and no worries, about what the outcome will be, because we just "KNOW"? There may be only a few of us here on this forum that have been "awakened", but you might be surprised at just how many of us there are all around the world, that are feeling this "shift" in our consciousness!!  As far fetched as this may seem to you, It  is really happening my dear family!  If you truly BELIEVE that Michael has faked his "death", and pulled the wool over the eyes of the world, how is it that he was able to pull off something  of this magnitude, without TPTB stopping him??

Michael IS invincible, because he is LOVE and he is LIGHT first and foremost. Michael knows the secrets of the universe, and my husband and I truly understand his "Divinity" and I was brought here to this forum strictly because of my strong Belief in LOVE, not because I was a Michael Jackson "Fan", because I was never a "Fan".  That in and of itself, only solidifies, that I am connected to Michael because of LOVE...It is our "Common Bond" and he knew that! I came to this forum because of LOVE and I have been posting about LOVE since the beginning ...My Faith and Belief in Michael and LOVE has never wavered, and will never waver!

I have never strayed from the path of Love my whole life. LOVE and GOD, (not religion) are the only things I have ever truly believed in, and despite all of the abuse, and suffering in my life, I never gave up hope that someday I would understand what my purpose here on Earth was and I have always known that LOVE was all that really mattered in this "Material" world, but I never really understood what that meant. Today, I have all of the answers I have been looking for, and I am at "Peace", knowing that my Belief in LOVE and GOD, was not in vain.

Michael is "synonymous" with LOVE. Can you name one other person on this planet that has the ability to make everyone he comes in contact with, feel truly LOVED, like you have a personal relationship with him? This should tell you just how "special" Michael is, and maybe you owe it to yourself, to step out of the "hoax" part of this "adventure, and just research the possibility that Michael really is an "Ascended Master" who was sent from God our creator, to "awaken" the world to the Truth of who we really are, and to help us to transition into the "New Age".

I KNOW that Michael sees and hears everything. I have Never "Physically" met Michael, but I "Feel" him with me at all times, he is truly just another part of me..Michael IS LOVE...I am LOVE..."WE", are LIGHT and LOVE..."WE" are ONE!

If you want answers, you must look at "ALL"possibilities. You need to do some soul searching and re-awaken the LOVE that is buried inside you. Until you take the path "less" traveled, you will stay stuck in this "vortex" we call "REALITY". Michael is counting on his "Army of LOVE" not his "Hoax Army", LOVE is the answer to what you are all searching for!

To all of you who are on the same path as me...Thank you from the bottom of my heart, please know that you are so LOVED and appreciated!! I know that some may think that "we" are the "crazy" ones, but the truth is, We" are the furthest from being "crazy"!! When you finally put all pieces of this puzzle together, it is like you have solved the "Mystery of LIFE"! Nothing else makes sense anymore...well that is how my husband and I feel anyway.

To those of you still searching...Know that Michael IS watching and waiting for you to "see the LIGHT". He truly LOVES each and every one of you, as do I...with all of my heart and soul. Please..."Make that Change"...The message is LOVE and this will end/begin, with LOVE!! Mark my words!

@ Michael...Thank you for all of your guidance and Patience...I LOVE YOU..."Heart" to "Heart" and "Mind" to "Mind", always and Forever...I will never let go of your hand!



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