TIAI September 27

[Suzy7]

@ scorpionchik, why is it not necessary to be one person posting under two/three or possibly more usernames? He gives us a new, different perspective on things with each "character" he takes on.
TS helps everyone in having a more direct, literal understanding of things, whilst Front etc., give us 'clues' in a riddle/metaphorical and still light-hearted way. It allows us to think in multiple ways.

 If,
TS = Front, and
Front = BACK, then
BACK = Michael?
 And who knows what other users could be this same person.

[Suzy7]

Looking4truth, good points again, but not everyone in court has to be in direct knowledge of their participation in the hoax. Perhaps they know something but not everything. They allegedly had a privacy clause in place BEFORE the gag order for a reason. This was mentioned on HLN by an attorney who stated -to paraphrase- "something must have been put in place beforehand that we (media) had no knowledge of, which was 'violated' and in turn caused the placement of a gag order."  If there was a contract that had to have been signed by people participating, then what they 'know' shouldn't be revealed; probably not now or ever if they are still under a contract that was unknown. I also dont think too many people "in the know" directly, is a good thing.
And the TMZ article? Hmm...

 MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13. He referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?

There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!

[looking4truth]

Looking4truth, good points again, but not everyone in court has to be in direct knowledge of their participation in the hoax. Perhaps they know something but not everything. They allegedly had a privacy clause in place BEFORE the gag order for a reason. This was mentioned on HLN by an attorney who stated -to paraphrase- "something must have been put in place beforehand that we (media) had no knowledge of, which was 'violated' and in turn caused the placement of a gag order."  If there was a contract that had to have been signed by people participating, then what they 'know' shouldn't be revealed; probably not now or ever if they are still under a contract that was unknown. I also dont think too many people "in the know" directly, is a good thing.
And the TMZ article? Hmm...

 MJFAN7 mentioned she figured out the verdict of the 2005 trial as being 2:13 pm pacific time? TS posted his thread at 2:13.
21/3 =777
But he referenced his posting times as 'clues' so maybe this time holds a significant future date/timing?

There has been great posts by many in this thread recently and I also forgot to credit Gina for posting the Kangaroo Court info aswell, so thank you too!

Thanks again Suzy! Great points again... if they had to a sign a contract for something confidential then we will never know for what because it is confidential. However, it still does not mean they know anything about the hoax. The jurors may have thought that signing this agreement is normal for a high profile case such as Michael's and Michael could've used this ignorance to his advantage by formulating a fake official court document for the jurors to sign to keep their mouth shut on anything involving the case period or certain things surrounding the case. Again, we will not know what exactly is in the contract if it was meant to keep something confidential. I think only Michael will be able to tell that part if he has to, since Jermaine is saying everything will come out; perhaps the 'how' questions will be addressed too in time...or maybe not. It doesn't have to be answered in order to leak all the information surrounding this conspiracy around Michael and his family. And great matching of the trial time versus the time TS posted this. So perhaps, the clue is this trial is in reference to the 2005 trial. It's a vague clue but maybe it's signaling that this trial is picking up where the 2005 trial left off or signaling what Michael would've done if he was found guilty like Dr. Murray (a point I made in another thread recently).

[Im_convincedmjalive]

In the following link You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login I said this:

The DA did not prove his theory beyond a reasonable doubt. The IMPACT will be great if this jury finds him Guilty. It will be a travesty that the jury failed at taking it all in. If they find him Not Guilty then the system worked. This part of the hoax in my opinion is not scripted for the jury. This is a test of all tests and depending on how it turns out there will be lessons taught regardless of which verdict.

I read the comments on this thread TIAI September 27 and it takes a while for me to read all of the comments. I have also been experiencing pc issues with slowness so it has taken me some time to compose this comment.  I am going to expand on what I have always thought from the start of conversations on Murray and a Guilty verdict.

1. I agree 100% that if Murray had been found Not Guilty it would have caused riots therefore I believe the jury convicted on that fear of riots which is an emotional conviction. The jury did not want to be known as the jury who caused a horrible aftermath. Although the jury was told not to read or do all the other things the judge said not to do while not in court this jury had been exposed to everything regarding this case. The media, family, Murray, etc. helped to plant info that would remain in the juries mind while deliberating. The Casey Anthony trial was fresh and it was being said that the jury made a mistake with their verdict. Many people are angry over the decision and there has been backlash. The Murray jury did not want that kind of stuff to happen because of them.

2. There is way more to this Guilty verdict in regards to emotional based conviction. This is what I said from the beginning:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The list goes on and on of wrongfully convicted men and women. So yes this part of the hoax concerning the trial and whether or not Murray gets convicted over false evidence is very important. Just because there are clues to say Murray didn’t do it and we know he didn’t do it DOES NOT guarantee that the jury will not be biased/racist/prejudice and convict him on flimsy/false evidence.

Hypothetical situation of Murray being convicted:

It would be a miscarriage of justice and IMO the jury would have convicted him based on emotional bias/racist/prejudice. Maybe they don’t like Murray because he took away The KOP and they’re secretly a fan or maybe they don’t like MJ but still want to punish Murray for whatever their biased/racist/prejudice emotional feelings think at that time.

The DA and the Defense will present their cases. This is a combination of hard evidence and theatrics with who tells the better story. Who is more believable? It is the DA’s job to convince the jury Murray did it by using evidence that can be seen, touched and then made to believe it is true. It is the Defenses job to poke holes in anything the DA says and show that there is still a more logical explanation to the facts presented. It sometimes comes down to who did the most convincing talking.

I will explain more below about the mind games played to ensure a Guilty verdict.

3. It is my belief that the jury did not take everything into consideration and based their decision on closing arguments from the DA especially the part about MJ's kids not having their father anymore. I believe this jury allowed their emotions to take over and the DA made sure to plant subliminal heart tugging sad stuff.

I believe the jury convicted Murray because of them seeing MJ's fam in the court house, the jury felt like they owed a Guilty verdict for the fam especially seeing Katherine in the court room, that helped to ensure a Guilty verdict. Murray's own words and actions helped to convict him. The wording asked/explained to the jury allowed for a Guilty verdict. Page 8-10 on the pdf. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I had posted the jury instructions in this link:
 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login I had put videos of the closing arguments and the judge speaking the jury instructions.

So in saying that I am now moving onto the Kangaroo Court.

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A kangaroo court or kangaroo trial is a colloquial term for a sham legal proceeding or court. The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.

A kangaroo court's proceedings deny, hinder or obstruct due process rights in the name of expediency. Typically, a kangaroo court will deliberately abuse one or more of the following rights of the accused:
right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
right to control one's own defense e.g. selecting one's own defense counsel
right to hear a full and precise statement of the charges made against the accused
right to have adequate time and resources to prepare a defense against the charges
right not to incriminate oneself
right to summon witnesses
right of cross-examination
right to introduce evidence which supports acquittal of the accused
right to exclude evidence that is improperly obtained, irrelevant or inherently inadmissible, e.g., hearsay
right not to be tried on secret evidence
right to exclude judges or jurors on the grounds of partiality, prejudice or conflict of interest
right to have a verbatim stenographic record of the trial proceedings created
right to have no interference or undue influence made by external agencies e.g. political or military leaders
right of appeal against conviction

First the Kangaroo Court by it's definition says it's a sham legal proceeding or court.
Definition of sham:
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1 : a trick that deludes : hoax <feared that the deal was a sham>
2 : cheap falseness : hypocrisy <saw through the hollowness, the sham, the silliness of the empty pageant — Oscar Wilde>
3 : an ornamental covering for a pillow
4 : an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine
5 : a person who shams

Examples of SHAM
He claims that the trial was a sham.
Their marriage was a sham.
Many people believed he could help them, but I knew he was a sham.
She exposed their sham and hypocrisy.

The basis for the sham used in Murray's trial was the hoax that MJ is dead and Murray did it.
"The outcome of a trial by kangaroo court is essentially determined in advance, usually for the purpose of ensuring conviction, either by going through the motions of manipulated procedure or by allowing no defense at all.

The outcome was essentially determined in advance by going through the motions of a MANIPULATED procedure. The defense ensured the Guilty verdict by their bumbling acts in court. They made themselves appear incompetent. The verdict was ensured by Murray's own words, the police interview, the taping of MJ on May 10th, the things he did in the hospital, his lack of telling no one about the propofol after 911 was called. All the things the defense side did during trial and before plus what Murray did before hand ensured a Guilty Verdict. Choosing the right jurors to sit in the jury box during the trial. Ex: MJ fans.

Psychology was definitely used. There are many different ways to use it on people to ensure a predictive programming outcome. Those who know how to do this have used it during this hoax. MJ is a very astute student. He not only studied the greats but human nature as well. His whole life he studied how people act and what makes them do certain things based on certain things done to evoke the desired reaction. During his career of entertainment he knew which things to do to make people go nuts for him and his music. He knew how to make them want more, he knew how to create a frenzy leaving people wanting more by holding back things and prolonging the suspense. He let it simmer. During his concerts he stood motionless for a long time while the crowd screamed in anticipation.

He definitely knows what predictive programming does to create an outcome. Even if he didn't know this, just by watching people's reactions to certain things will determine a predictive outcome.

From birth we have been manipulated by media and other things as we grew up. The T.V. has programmed us how to think, what to wear, what to eat, how society expects us to behave, what is considered cool and what is not cool. Now a days being a drunk slut is considered cool for women. There is alot more to this but I am already writing a book here. Knowing about the mind control techniques that our own governments use on us also have been used for this hoax to get a certain reaction from us. Below are some examples of manipulating people. I am not a genius but I am a people watcher and I can see that this has been done.
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Various techniques are used, by any set of groups, and aimed to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior.

The U.S. Department of Defense defines psychological warfare as:
"The planned use of propaganda and other psychological actions having the primary purpose of influencing the opinions, emotions, attitudes, and behavior of hostile foreign groups in such a way as to support the achievement of national objectives."

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Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group.

As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.

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Social psychology
The field of Social Psychology includes the study of persuasion. Social psychologists can be sociologists or psychologists. The field includes many theories and approaches to understanding persuasion. For example, communication theory points out that people can be persuaded by the communicator's credibility, expertise, trustworthiness, and attractiveness. The elaboration likelihood model as well as heuristic models of persuasion suggest that a number of factors (e.g., the degree of interest of the recipient of the communication), influence the degree to which people allow superficial factors to persuade them. Nobel Prize winning psychologist Herbert Simon won the Nobel prize for his theory that people are cognitive misers. That is, in a society of mass information people are forced to make decisions quickly and often superficially, as opposed to logically.

Social cognitive theories suggest that people have inherent biases in the way they perceive the world and these biases can be used to manipulate them. For example, people tend to believe that people's misfortune (e.g., poverty) is a result of the person and downplay external factors (e.g., being born into poverty). This bias is referred to as the Fundamental Attribution Error. The self-fulfilling prophecy relates to people's tendencies to stick with their original theories even when evidence proves their theories are incorrect. This tendency is sometimes referred to as confirmation bias (see list of cognitive biases). Propaganda frequently plays upon people's existing biases to achieve its end. For example, the illusion of control, refers to people's seemingly innate desire to believe they can and should control their lives. Propagandists frequently argue their point by claiming that the other side is attempting to take away your control.

Role theory is frequently used to identify an idea as appropriate because it is associated with a role. For example, the public relations firm Leo Burnett Worldwide used the Marlboro Man to persuade males that Marlboro cigarettes were a part of being a cool, risk-taking, cowboy rebel who was fearless in the face of threats of cancer. The campaign quadrupled sales of their cigarettes. Of course, smoking has nothing to do with being a cowboy or a rebel. This is a fantasy but the campaign's success is consistent with the tenets of role theory. In fact, the three actors who played the Marlboro man died of lung cancer.

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Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.

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5. Yesterday I went grocery shopping with my daughter so I was not watching any of the jury countdown, chat, or anything else. I came home around 3:30p.m. and turned the T.V. on to HLN and saw the verdict. My mouth fell open because my mind went to everything that will be exposed by this Guilty verdict. All I could say was OMG Fools.

The media talking heads got their wish, they get to continue to talk about this case way more than they would have if Murray walked. The docu that Murray has been taping will be more appealing now to show it. The media who denied it before will now be begging for it. The DA Steve Cooley spoke yesterday briefly to the media and the world. Fool, he did not take the time nor the opportunity that MJ and the FBI provided for him to figure out this was a hoax. Fool, Deputy DA Walgren did not take the time to figure out this was a hoax. Many more Fools like the fans outside the courtroom and sorry but some believers also fall into this category because the bigger picture here is how this court case has exposed the fact that innocent men (black) go to prison everyday.

MJ just exposed this. Even though it happens everyday, no one will be slapped harder in the face than the most famous man on the planet showing it to them. This is exactly why I have thought the Guilty verdict will be more of an IMPACT.

6. The FBI and MJ gave everyone an opportunity to figure out this was a hoax. The clues were provided to avoid entrapment. The in your face toys, La Toya's comment about The Illusionist movie, etc. All for the people to scratch their heads and wonder that something aint right.

7. I agree that the toys are odd in the courtroom. I believe that was MJ being a prankster for us the believers, he gave us entertainment during the trial. This was also another in your face wtf moments/clues for the public/anyone with half a brain to pick up on.

8. The numerology aspect of this is perfect and yes I agree some of it is planned but I also think as Elvis/Jesse thought/thinks about numerology playing a big part in his life even before he knew it. To me that says God is most definitely helping to control this hoax.

9. I explained today to my daughter (she is 18) about the theory of MJ being able to unclamp a roller on a IV line that was hooked up to a propofol bottle. I told her no other IV line was found that showed how that could happen. I said it was just a hypothetical situation. I explained to her how hard it would be for MJ to be able to draw up propofol using a syringe based on how Shafer told us. I explained how long one shot of 25mg. of propofol would keep MJ asleep, no longer than 15 minutes.

She has not been keeping up with the hoax except through me, she did not watch any of the trial. Her first comment to me after I told her all the info regarding the propofol death, she said MJ would have to have more than 25mg. I asked her why she said that and she said common sense told her.

That is the evidence that was completely overlooked by the majority and obviously the jury. That was one piece that gave reasonable doubt.

10. I am an American and I want the rights that have been given to us. One of those rights is a jury trial. Even though I don't think the system works all the time I still believed in the jury to do the right thing. I gave them to much credit. I am very disappointed. I am seeing the impact of this way different than most have expressed here. The mere fact that this jury found Murray Guilty is worrisome. Murray was convicted based on fake (sham court) evidence. What does that mean for the regular Joe Smoe?

Murray is proving a point according to MJ's wishes. Murray has back up to make sure he is comfy and well paid for his sacrifice. The average person does not and that is scary to me knowing that any one of my fellow American's could be rail roaded. I know that existed before this trial but the huge lesson the world will learn is exactly that. It did take for MJ to prove this because he knew his fame will make the world listen.

I also know the words to the song "They don't really care about us" has way more meaning than what some people think. I do think MJ is speaking about all of us when he says that but I also believe it is more personal. The fact that he was a victim of police brutality, putting him in a class of shame (the molestation charges trying to convict him with fake evidence), raping him of his pride, black man black mail put a brother in jail, (MJ is black and a black man is going to jail), looking to heaven to fulfill this prophecy.
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New King James Version (NKJV)
Daniel 12
Prophecy of the End Time
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0pUfg8TxRY&feature=related[/youtube]
This song was the first one shown over and over during the promotion of This Is It. This is the song clip that had been shown over and over during trial, this song means alot and tells me alot about some of the reasons of the hoax.

I will come back and talk about the sting aspect, some of it is very obvious.

@TS-You definitely know when to appear. You have given those who needed your assurance not lose faith. Thank you for that. I don't bake so I can't offer stroopwaffles but I have a sucker left over from Halloween. LOL!

[WhiteNight]

“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner

This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax.  As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.

If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’

This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans.  The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.

 I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.

“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about

I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…

…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…

…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”

Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:

Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’

“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”

Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.

As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)

I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) -  It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.

But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!

BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!

Mjj4ever777:  I know I don’t post very often but I read your posts as well and I appreciate them very much! I love ya bunches! *hugs*

MJ_ForeverandAlways: That was simply beautiful! I am so moved by your story! God bless you!

Sorry for such a long and late post. o_o; It took me a while to read everything on this thread.

Im_convincedmjalive: Woah! i just noticed your post! I must read it! I could not help but notice very interesting points that you have presented! I will read it later though. I'm a bit sleepy right now. It's 2am here (U.S. central time) @_@

[curls]

Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.

And in a strange way, even with MJ being alive, it was still the right verdict - Murray IS 'guilty' of helping/allowing MJ to 'die'! It was just in no way near the way that was described in court!

[bec]

Im_convinced that was fairly brilliant. At first read I agree with almost everything you said.

Walgren says too many hoaxy catch phrases to not be in on it though. The altered death photos, the missing N in his powerpoint, the typos in his documents that go unnoticed (Robert W. Murray), the use of hoaxy phrases in the powerpoints also indicate to me that the Prosecution is being directed by MJ. Unless they are scripted and their visual aids are influenced by MJ with them not being directly aware, the Prosecution almost certainly has to be in on it.

[Off topic, who is it that marks the documents with the evidence letters? Whoever it is draws his/her L's as perfect little upside down 7's.]

But I agree, it had to be a Guilty verdict for maximum impact upon reveal. The script was written from the start with this verdict in mind. How could they acquit a Doctor who used anesthesia in a home with no monitoring, who gave one armed cpr on a bed and delayed calling 911? These things weren't denied by Murray from the start. They can't acquit with those "facts" on the table... unless no one died, and that fact is not apparent to most yet. That therein, lies the Sting on the media and the general public... and nearly all of his fans.

[GINAFELICIA]

Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.

I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?

[MissG]

Remember Murray was not charged with murder. He did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. There were huge unsatisfactorily unanswered questions in the trial re how the 'fatal dose' was administered and who by, but that doesn't alter the fact that NOTHING bad should have happened to MJ on Murray's watch. He failed in his duty of care by his actions and inactions. Therefore I think the jury made the right decision.

I don't agree with this. To me Murray is guilty for Michael's death if he injected the fatal dose. That wasn't proved and maybe it is even impossible to prove.
It's one thing to fail to watch the patient and totally another thing to inject a fatal dose of drug. Let's say Murray went to the bathroom and someone else came and gave the fatal dose. Why would Murray be guilty of manslaughter in this case?!?!?!?

Because as Curls said, he did not have to push the fatal dose himself to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. As a Doctor he made the wrong choice administering propofol outside a hospital, no matter if the dose was not fatal. If the dose would have been given inside a hospital, the outcome would have been different imo.

Also in question was -what took him so long to call 911 but, being a Doc, I found his reaction normal. He asks others to call 911 meantime he does his job as a Doctor giving CPR.

In any case, if someone came in to the room and inyected MJ with propofol or any other drug available in that home that should not have been there on the 1st place, the Doctor is the one being responsable.

I know that in USA rich people can have their little private hospitals at home but i am not sure about the rules or if any license is needed to be able to do so.

[GINAFELICIA]

Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?

In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?

So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.

[applehead250609]

“Look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality.” ~ Michael Ellner

This is quite an amazing quote and I really think that this epitomizes the general reason for the hoax.  As for the technicalities, I’d rather not make any assumptions because I believe that there is more to this than we can ever imagine and all of us have found truth in our own way and we have all brought something of value to the table. But I will say one thing.

If you really think about it, (and trust me, you probably don’t have to lol) the moral degradation of humanity can be attributed to everything being ‘backwards.’

This ‘backwards’ sequence that the world is living by is contrived and has been manufactured by TPTB.
As we all know, this is all part of the plan that TPTB have in order to plunge the world into chaos and disorder. They know that fear (false prophet doomsday BS) and hate (caused by religious, racial and homophobic discord) are the perfect catalysts for this to happen according to their plans.  The ONLY way that we can win this war is with unconditional LOVE. LOVE for our brothers and sisters of humanity regardless of who they are and how they live their lives. It’s our job is to LOVE one another and it’s God’s job to judge.

 I would like to quote one of Michael’s songs titled ‘Jam’ to reiterate this.

“What has come of all the people
Have we lost love of what it’s about

I have to find my peace cuz no one seems to let me be
False prophets cry of doom what are the possibilities…

…The world keeps changing rearranging minds and thoughts
Predictions fly of doom…

…She pray to God to Buddha then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self do we know right from wrong.”

Thank you Shining Light for posting the lyrics!:

Now here’s one of my favorite lyrics from ‘Keep the Faith’

“Any road that you take will get you there
If you only try”

Though some may differ, there is no one right way. No one has the complete and ultimate truth. That’s why we have a free will. We must search for our own truth and ‘seek our own salvation.’ Man-made religion cannot do this for us. It dampens our spirituality and it only serves to distance us from each other and most importantly, from God, The Creator. The same principle applies to the hoax investigation. Not one of us has all of the answers. If we did, I don't think we would feel the need to be here.

As for the verdict, I was not too surprised. This is just the beginning. My faith is strong and I am even more confident that Michael is alive. This does not shake my faith at all. But I must say that I was VERY worried about what would have happened outside the courthouse if he had been found ‘not guilty’. My heart was racing while I watched the verdict reading live on TV. (LOL...It was actually my B-Day on 7-11. heh)

I must admit and agree that I found it sad that the fans cheered with such joy after hearing the verdict. If I was an uninformed non-believer, like I’m sure that most of them were, I would not be happy no matter what the verdict was. (Thinking in the uninformed ‘non-hoax’ mindset,) -  It would not bring Michael back and a man who has loved ones as well as children was sent to prison. I think it would be quite a sad scenario either way if one were to look at this with the eyes of an uninformed non-believer. But perhaps it’s just me thinking this way.

But of course I know that this is all a part of the plan and I think we are still in for quite an adventure!

BTW, the posts that you all have been making are amazing! I have been brought to tears!

Mjj4ever777:  I know I don’t post very often but I read your posts as well and I appreciate them very much! I love ya bunches! *hugs*

MJ_ForeverandAlways: That was simply beautiful! I am so moved by your story! God bless you!

Sorry for such a long and late post. o_o; It took me a while to read everything on this thread.

Im_convincedmjalive: Woah! i just noticed your post! I must read it! I could not help but notice very interesting points that you have presented! I will read it later though. I'm a bit sleepy right now. It's 2am here (U.S. central time) @_@

WhiteNight thank you very much,it did a wonderful post  respect/!!! I saw all your hoax-videos,why did you stop on making them  :?:??
Now about going BACKwards,I'm telling this from a long time now.Even before Steve Job's death.The only way TO CONNECT THE DOTS is going BACKwards,we must UNLEARN what we have LEARNED!!!!His speech is still with me,every day,and when I think at it,I don't know why but I feel A DEEP PAIN in my heart  :cry:. It's something that I can't say,but is there  :cry:.I had spoke about Steve Jobs many times ,and I think now is the right moment to tell you all something.Not many poeple knew that Mr. Jackson and Steve Jobs were friends, they spoke often. Mr.Jobs sent 12 iPhones to Michael , two weeks before they went on sale to the public.




Michael gave Bill and BJ iPhones for Christhmas and had them personally engraved.Who knows maybe Michael gave Bill a telephone,to replace the one he threw out on the window  .
There is something with Steve Job's speech  and what he said at one point  :cry:.He said that out time is limited, so we  should not WASTE OUR TIME ,by LIVING SOMEONES else's LIFE shock:!!!!!!.To not be TRRAPED BY DOGMA,which is LIVING with the RESULT OF OTHER PEOPLE's THINKING......and most IMPORTANT to have COURAGE to follow our HEARS an INTUITION,because THEY already know what you truly want to BECOME. Everithing ELSE IS SECONDARY   :shock:!!!
I was thinking at what he said and I'm starting to believe that he was right.Do you understand what I mean?? Maybe is this what MICHAEL is trying to TEACH US ALSO!!!!
WE,the people of this planet ,are wasteig precious time with things that are not really important,like gossip,fights about who's RIGHT and who's WRONG,trials,war,newspapers,Tv,ETC,and we miss the most important,and that  is OUR OWN LIFE,to do WHAT WE LIKE and our own FAMILY    :cry: :cry: :cry:!!!!!Rememeber what Michael said in" HEAL THE WORLD " song?

"If You Want To Know Why
There's A Love That
Cannot Lie
Love Is Strong
It Only Cares For
Joyful Giving
If We Try
We Shall See
In This Bliss
We Cannot Feel
Fear Or Dread
We Stop Existing And
Start Living "

[MissG]

Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?

In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?

So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.

I guess the jury made an emotional decision. The evidences looked planted and the whole situation a mess, yes, but there are records of propofol  bought by Murray(which he could have done for his hospital btw) and he admitted giving MJ propofol in MJ´s home. As a Doctor he should have known in which enviroment is legal to use propofol. Also, propofol must be given by a person who is qualified to do it i.e an anesthesiologist.

Murray never took the stand so we don´t know what he is or isn´t qualified to do or administer.

The real killer could be running free now but abandonment happened. If Murray went to the wc for a second, another person should have been there observing the patient. I understand that the man could not be 24/7 observing the person under his care, so MJ should have had 2 medical professionals. Doctor and nurse, or doctor and doctor or doctor+someone with basic medical knowledge, as a security guard is supossed to have.

So now that Murray is in jail (and I don´t agree with this) the rest needs to come out, starting with the bodyguards who were also there. Abandonment was the word used and I agree.

[applehead250609]

Why would the doctor be responsable if there were drugs in the house he might not knew about?
There were many people in that house, why would they be beyond suspicion anyway? What about all those bodyguards, what do we really know about them? Why were the tapes missing?

In my opinion, if this a real investigation, it was not a very good one.
Because in the end we don't really know WHO THE KILLER IS. We assume it was Murray because he was there and he ordered the drug. He never admitted he gave MJ more than 25 mg. They just assumed he gave him more but where's the proof?

So you'r etelling me without that proof he is still guilty for Micha4el's death, while it is possible the real killer to walk free and laugh?!?!??!
No, they didn't fulfill their duty till the end.

Gina you are perfectly right ,my dear  :lol: !! The killer is walking free on Beverly Hills of Hollywood  :?.The REAL killer is WALKING FREE ,and Doctor Conrad MURDER,excuse me Doctor Conrad Murray  :lol: ,didnt killed his patient Mr.Michael Jackson :lol:!!! Our GOOD friend Willie Hampton was recently at Jane Valdez and he told EVERYTHING,in a word he had SPILLED THE BEANS OUT   :lol: :lol:!!!! You all have to know THE TRUTH,HOLLYWOOD killed Michael Jackson   :lol: :lol: :lol:!!!!!!
One more thing before I go ,it seems that Willie has forget his precious MUSTACHE at home  /cook/ geek/!!!! I LOVE you all  !!!

Fans spar abourt Murray verdict
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmPydAbrB_c&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

[MJonmind]

First I just want to say Im_convincedmjalive, that your post on the psychological persuasion going on in the trial and in the world around us was so well written and totally amazing!
 /bravo/  I'll just add that David Walgren was easy to look at, which made him more persuasive.  I remember it was said that a jurist in 2005 said that Katherine was glaring at them and intimidating with her looks, although it didn't change their minds. Murray complained early on that an MJ fan was glaring at him, and she was banned from the courtroom.  All the things you listed could influence things either way depending on their particular weight/strength.  The OJ trial had an impact in 2005, and the Casey trial had an impact on this trial.  We humans are always being influenced one way or another, since we are a little like sheep. We can study these ways of thinking and actions all throughout history, changing people like the rolling ocean.  But in this trial I think MJ created sort of like the "perfect storm" of a predicament/conundrum that would be the most challenging to solve, and controversial to fans and family in choosing sides to take.

Moonwalk: by Michael jackson/ Just Kids With A Dream "I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel,knowing they have that power.I sometimes feel I could do it.It's something I'd like to develop.In away,somewriting uses the same skills,creates the emotional highs and lows,but the story is a sketch.It's quicksilver.There are very few books written on the art of storyttelling, how to grip listeners,how to get a group of people together and amuse them.No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes.As I begin to tell my story, I want to repeat what I usually say people when they ask me about my earliest days with the Jackson 5: I was so little when we began to work on our music that I really don't remember much about it.Most people have the luxury of careers that start when they're old enough to know exactly what they're doing and why, but, of course, that wasn't true of me." You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Applehead, lol, it sounds from the video that the fans lynched Murray, and whose Hollywood anyway?  But seriously if MJ truly was dead, they should have looked at Klein, AEG, Tohme, or it could even have been a hit man got in the house. And seriously I think that fan is authentic but that friend or is it patient of Murray is fake because CM is not his real name and so his patients are not real either.

[Suzy7]

Looking4truth, agreed just because a privacy clause could have been signed, doesn't mean they know the reasons why. I also think the timing is to probably bring emphasis to the 2005 trial, especially with this new Murray documentary--Bashir docu. ?

Im_convinced, 100% agreed with everything you said (except the DA part), as I have read all of your post's on this thread and my thoughts have been very much the same. You have done a great job on your 'sting court' side aswell, although I have said many times my belief is the sting is multidimensional.

Bec, Walgren's obvious KEY phrases and 'misspellings' can't be by accident, unless someone else prepared all of the documents and told him what to say, which in turn would mean he is completely featherbrained and unaware of any hoax. That I obviously doubt lol, he can't be that dumb. I also noticed you changed your stance on a/or--ANY-- sting?

 I do think along with Gina, a not guilty verdict could have been possible. Take into consideration; the tampered evidence, house was left open to anyone, no syringe or IV/bag with propofol residue, no proof he was in room etc.
 But, there was enough evidence for a guilty verdict due to gross negligence. Much like the real trial of Casey Anthony, both were actually possible.