TIAI September 27

[curls]

I wasn't going to add any more to this discussion, but I will, because this 12:20 thing is still puzzling me.  I'm certainly not TS bashing, I simply want to dissect it, as he has indeed always urged us to do.  If the 12:21 thing is solid then no-one should have anything to fear, or get irritated by others questioning how this new info fits in.

Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!

So, what's puzzling me is this:

With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21

It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!

It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!

Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?

 /pull hair/

On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!

[Sarahli]

I was also thinking that someone else was involved in this 911 call because it's a fake emergency, and in order to avoid problems it mustn't be just a normal call made by Alvarez. We already said in the previous levels that some key people in the LAFD are involved. The document presented and showing the supposed path of this call makes it even more of a wonder that they received it at exactly 12:21. pm. smiley_spider Something happened between 12:20:50 and 12:21:03.  suspicious// LOL it's a bumpy 911 call trajectory.

[suspicious mind]

I wasn't going to add any more to this discussion, but I will, because this 12:20 thing is still puzzling me.  I'm certainly not TS bashing, I simply want to dissect it, as he has indeed always urged us to do.  If the 12:21 thing is solid then no-one should have anything to fear, or get irritated by others questioning how this new info fits in.

Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!

So, what's puzzling me is this:

With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21

It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!

It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!

Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?

 /pull hair/

On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!

it has always intrigued me how this subject seems to float into almost every statement some of these people make. why? what is the purpose? so much overkill in this area.

[Shining light]

I was also thinking that someone else was involved in this 911 call because it's a fake emergency, and in order to avoid problems it mustn't be just a normal call made by Alvarez. We already said in the previous levels that some key people in the LAFD are involved. The document presented and showing the supposed path of this call makes it even more of a wonder that they received it at exactly 12:21. pm. smiley_spider Something happened between 12:20:50 and 12:21:03.  suspicious// LOL it's a bumpy 911 call trajectory.

All it shows is contradictions left and right which to me only screams even more to everyone that something just ain't right. Maybe it is just there are two sides pulling for there own truth to come out one is the Illuminati version which is trying to block mjs version of the story. But you cant block the truth forever. There has been a lot of contradictions through out this whole 2 1/2 years why would it stop now? We have heard it many times during these years "The truth will prevail!".

[hesouttamylife]

Is there anyway to check to see if two 911 calls were made on that day ; one at around 10:30 and then the famous one?   /cook/

[wishingstar]

Why is it important that a believer's faith be so tested over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

This line made me think about the difference between knowing and thinking. I know that in this thread we are encouraged to use our minds to think and reason for ourselves concerning facts, that is a good thing, but there is more to a person than the body and the soul [ the mind will and emotions]....there is the spirit or the heart of a person. Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates . So after all is said and done,  one of the major lessons in this entire hoax is perhaps aimed to put us in tune with our spirit component, for with the heart a man or woman believes.  If we don't discern with our heart then we will fall for whatever information  is being aimed at us and that is for any area of our lives. So, how can a person be so sure that this is not a murder or death and it is a hoax. We still come back to the individual's moment of dawning or revelation or enlightenment. Without the light bulb moment for each individual, then one is only going on outside information delivered by another and thus can still be swayed by such. But when that revelation from you inner spirit finally gets through to your mind, well....as they say...a man or woman with a revelation is never at the mercy of a another's argument.  I apologize for my digression from topic. 
 

 RK, no deviation.
 
 Audition time is not over yet. Michael works only with the best.
 He cannot afford any other level since he must be able to fully (150%) rely on what his team is doing will be correct and exactly what he wants.
 This disappearance is rehearsal only for the world outside.
 There will be times when all we've learned in these years of trying the spin will be of essential and vital value and desperately needed. Reality is much more complex and cruel at times than we might imagine.
 Michael needs the strong at heart for his army's tasks in the world that are really challenging.
 That's why this training is so tough.
 
 
 Education time is not over yet. Michael wants us to discover our talents.
 "We wanna show them talent that they've never seen before."
 So let's try the difficult over and over again and we will be amazed in retrospective about what WE were capable of that we never imagined before.
 That's why we are exercising so much.
 
 
 Discovery time is not over yet. Michael wants to keep us hooked.
 If it were easy, we would lose interest, right?
 If we come back to our love inside of us, back to the positive energy inside of us, if we allow our good inside to awaken and to LIVE, EVERYTHING is possible for the better.
 
 A brain is useful but without a heart it is nothing.
 That's why we are thrown back on ourselves so often.
 
 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8vZmWQPgwA&feature=related[/youtube]
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 It is all about L.O.V.E.
 Blessings and much love to everybody.
 You are all needed, each one of you, in the strongest belief and faith and love possible and who ever gets into swaggering - watch Elvis' and Michael's last videos and see how they were swaggering before reaching out and just doing it.
 
  bearhug
 
 SimPatty, could you pls post the vids of Elvis' last concert and how he came in backstage drinking his coke and Michael's walking into O2 conference since I have a schedule right now?
 Thank you so much!

RK and Grace...........
This is an amazing post from you guys.......thank you so much! It puts into words so much of what I feel about it all.  We can not live by calculations and thoughts alone, we can not sustain our beLIEf on just mere clues......we need that soul, that nudge of faith, the power of trusting your own heart is the core of true knowledge (for me, anyways).  We can calculate times, add letters, watch videos all day long.  However, if at the end of the day we do not have our hearts in line with love and understanding, we have gained nothing and will fall.  Our faith will be rattled, our beLIEf shaken.  The end of the hoax will just be the beginning for most.....the dawn of a new day. 
-Audition
-Education
-Discovery
Brilliant framework, Grace.  It's so true these words you wrote.  We have all the tools we need inside of us, if we only learn to use them correctly.  So much of life does not make sense.  We question why things are all the time...it's how we are wired.  However, it's only when the mind is guided by the heart that true greatness happens within a person's soul.  A heart guided by the mind will be forever be in a mindless loop of questioning. 
-Faith
-Hope
-Love
and the greatest of these is indeed love. 

RK said:

"Sadly, many have lost the ability to hear the still small much softer voice of their spirit when the mind clamours so loudly and drowns it out. So much comes in to our minds through the eye and ear gates."
Again...brilliant, wise words.  For all the differing faiths of the world: Be still and know, just know.  It will be then your mind will rest, your spirit will soar and you will have peace.  Just know. 

Thank you again to you both.....you are a blessing upon this forum. 
Have a most beautiful day!
LOVE & Blessings

PS>  James Brown is and always will be sheer genius with his soul, his music and his love for people...thank you for showing us such an amazing pairing.  Pavarotti and James Brown....absolutely brilliant! 

[~Souza~]

Okay, I will give my take on this 911 call, it might give some people peace of mind.

Here is the complete call:


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I for one don't even understand why someone with an emergency would have to go through two people. Most of the 911 calls come in exactly where they should: the person that can send an ambulance right away. But Alvarez first gets the BHPD. Now notice the difference between the woman from the BHPD and the guy from the LAFD. She only picks up (if she even picked up and didn't call Alvarez herself) with 911 emergency. She does not ask for a location, nor does she ask what the emergency is. She has no clue if she should send the cops or an ambulance, because Alvarez only mentioned 'an emergency' and the address. On top of it all, she is going to explain to Alberto that she is going to put him through with the LAFD. Who cares? He has 'an emergency'! All together, as confirmed by Dona Norris on the stand, this whole conversation lasted 46 seconds. 46 seconds is way too much if a person has a cardiac arrest, but hey, how would she know? She only asked for the address, before explaining what she was going to do, before she finally puts the man through with a 3-digit number. If Alvarez actually needed the cops because there was someone with a gun in the house, the LAFD would have to put him through to the BHPD/LAPD again. So we can safely assume that the woman knew exactly what was going on.

Now there are two scenarios:

1. It is normal in LA that you are put through by the police to the LAFD in an emergency and they called early to make sure the woman of the BHPD could put them through at exactly 12:21. That is not so difficult to plan, since we already established that officials are in on this and this first conversation only confirms that in my opinion.

2. They didn't want to rely on the cellphone (mine isn't always working when I want either) and therefor they decided to call the BHPD first, to make sure the call would be received at 12:21. Because 12:21 IS the time the call came in, according to the records (and Dona Norris confirmed that 12:21:04 was the time the call was actually released) and according to the screen in the ambulance. This is the time the world would hear.

I also doubt if it's really 911 that was called, or that they worked with direct numbers. The guy of the LAFD hangs up the phone, which is against protocol, so maybe he was asked to pick up an internal line during his break. Norris and her 'fictious phone number that was phone company stuff' makes me think that that is a possibility.

Anyways, TS correct me if I'm wrong, there might be a third option, but these are already two points that explain the 12:20:18 and the lack of speed by the BHPD.

[paula-c]

I just want to say this trial so far looks more like a joke than a real trial.
I am not very familiar with the trials but if I were the judge I would strongly OBJECT to wasting everybody's time with so UNRELEVANT discussions.
To me looks like both the prosecution and the defense score very little points in regard to the subject of the trial, this being to determine if Conrad Murray is guilty for involuntarly manslaughter.

For example last evening. They questiond Randy Phillips about the press conf, the preparations for the shows etc., so many things with no relevance in proving anything.

Why is this happening?

My husband says "I can't believe how stupid you all are, you watch that joke of a trial and you'll find NOTHING in the end, nothing at all, and you'll end with wasted time for nothing".

Sometimes I just feel he might be right.

 
 
  I think that the statement by Phillips is important and is not to help the defence of Murray, the said that Michael was confident Murray and he had no reservations about Murray after meeting him. Your comments about Michael were personal.He described Michael as a great father and seemed to want everyone to know that Michael called for in the contracts was to meet the needs of their children, not by a desire to extravagance. In the meeting room of the Beverly Hills hotel, where both he and Michael discusses what he had lived and what their children had been supporting. Reading between the lines, I can not see this meeting as a meeting of the artist and Phillips after the meeting, I knew at least a portion to what Michael had had to endure, and I was surprised that someone like him admit that he cried. As he left the country in 2005, which was ill but not physically and tired of running and hiding, tired of having to fear exit through the door and go to a store or watch a movie on television with the risk that their children could be exposed to what they were saying about her father. I think this statement says a lot. 

[BeTheChange]

@Souza...excellent, excellent post.  Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
 
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around!  You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers. 
 
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure.  Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there.  Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith.  I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back.  I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
 
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front.  It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.

EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
 
With L.O.V.E. always. 

[bec]

Previously, I went along with the idea that Alvarez (being in on the hoax) was able to time the 911 call to within a few seconds of 12:21, which is how I'd interpreted TS's explanations, although I hold my hands up to ASSuming 'caller' meant 'Alvarez'!

So, what's puzzling me is this:

With this preceeding part of the call at 12:20 with Beverley Hills Police Dept, it would appear we now have AN EXTRA PERSON needing to be in on it to 'hit the switch', so to speak, and thus ensure the important print-outs and computer screen images would show 12:21

It's almost as if the call, and thus 'the caller', actually came FROM the BHPD, not TO them!

It seems a more unnecessarily complicated scenario! Or maybe I've just made it so!

Or maybe not, because there would have had to be someone 'high up' giving the ok for a 'fake' 911 call wouldn't there?

 /pull hair/

On another topic, strange, but great, that Randy Philips was able to get in that MJ was 'a phenomenal father', without any objections or silencing from the judge! Yay!

Bingo.


It could be assumed that Alvarez was the caller, but it would be just that, an assumption. The full version of the 911 call tape reveals that there was a third party on that call, and as Souza said, this third party was from the LAPD, a key person in a key position?

[wishingstar]

@Souza...excellent, excellent post.  Hopefully that will ease some concern/confusion.
 
@RK, Grace and WishingStar...GREAT posts all around!  You guys have beautifully summed up the 'faith' component of the hoax...and it is that very component that differentiates between non-believers and believers...and more importantly believers and knowers. 
 
Hearing Randy Phillips yesterday and once again hearing the last thing Mike told him before he 'died'....really strikes a chord with me as far as our experience(s) in this adventure.  Back, TS, and Front have taken us as far as they can (or are willing to)...it is up to US to take it from there.  Even with ALL the clues and ILLumination that they have shared with us...it is up to each one of us to take the next step...and that involves a leap of faith.  I can only speak for myself in saying that once that leap is taken, there's NO turning back.  I might get 'sidetracked' every once and awhile...but my faith cannot be shaken.
 
The 12:21 issue, hopefully will be resolved with Souza's post...BUT even if TS was mistaken or made an error in 'explaining' the call (two scenarios I highly doubt...but even IF)...my beLIEf that Mike is alive does not rely on TS or Back or Front.  It relies on me being confident in myself at having reached that conclusion based on everything I've researched since June 25th, 2009....and then having 'rock solid' faith to see it through.

EDITED to add this movie clip...seems very 'fitting':

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqpevshcdww[/youtube]
 
With L.O.V.E. always.

 /bravo/
Amazing tie to Michael's words....he took it to the next level.  It's up to us now....absolutely brilliant. 
I love Indiana Jones..........this part in particular has always given me the highest degree of goosebumps possible : )

Leap of faith....we are walking across this hoax like a cavern of death.  It doesn't matter to 99% of the world if you fall.....but, it matters to Michael.  It's always mattered to Michael....what more could he have given?  What more could he have done?  How could he have tried to show people love, without opening his heart so much?  He said he wanted to be Jesus-like on Oprah.  I believe we have all seen and been witness to the greatest example of love in our personal lifetime.
What a great video clip to tie that together....thank you for posting it! 

Blessings to you always.......
LOVE

[BeTheChange]

@WishingStar  bearhug
 
Not sure if any of you are watching HLN but La Toya just arrived at court and Jane asked her what she'd say to the Murray 'supporters' who say he's a nice guy.  La Toya replied by saying that everything is an ILLUSION...that people should watch The Illusionist and they should read between the lines. 
 
Basically...she just threw us another 'stone' to step on in that leap of faith.  Thanks La Toya  bearhug
 
With L.O.V.E. always.

[bec]

It's a leap of faith from the lion's head. You must believe.


Neato. Thanks for posting the clip, BeTheChange  bearhug


Ps. I love Indiana Jones too!

[fordtocarr]

HLN just said that "THIS COULD ALL REALLY TURN OUT TO BE A CONSPIRACY AFTER ALL"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BeTheChange]

@Bec...I LOVE Indy!  Great movies to 'escape' into...that clip fits the current side-topic perfectly bearhug
 
 
 
With L.O.V.E. always.