TIAI September 27

[use_your_illusion]

During earlier on in the trial I started to believe that there is no sting...this could be a trial to get back at the media, but some of them like HLN seem to be all hoaxy, so I don't know if I believe that either, I really don't know why there was a trial, maybe just because it's normal to have a trial when someone has allegedly killed a person plus, the trial has dragged on long enough for all those MJ fans waiting for justice.

But if there is a possible sting I say it's on Cooley...but I'm going to go with the fact I don't think there is, I think this trial is just to fill in the gaps or apart of the normal process of when events like these happen.

[PureLove]

Ooops, I never said it was justice. If you read my posts, I've always said whether Murray covicted or not, there will be NO justice for Michael either way. What I meant is that with Murray conviction, next part of revelation of truth and true assassins is coming up, Michael will unfold it. That said, Murray conviction is correct as a beginning of new events. I still believe CM was  ordered to kill MJ and this hoax/sting/ take over of Michael is about assassination attempt.

So you say, Michael was really a drug addict. Murray is with the evil side who had been trying to kill Michael and he was trying to kill Michael for real fueling him with drugs but Michael found out about the plan and made him fall into his own trap and therefore Murray is in jail now. And also you say that, Murray's speech on youtube which is exactly like Michael's is just a coincidence. Sorry Scorpion but this means that you missed what a LONG TERM, perfect plan this is! Michael started to give out clues about this hoax at least 20 years ago. It looks like you didn't get any of them and therefore you think Murray is a real killer and Michael arranged a plan in a hurry to get him. You need to start thinking BIGGER and stop thinking Michael is a fragile drug addict. There is so much more than you can imagine. And this is NOT such a simple plan which was decided in a short term. You're missing the important points of the hoax.

Hon, I did not miss anything, I am too realistic and love rationale. Michael is NOT drug addict, what was those bottles about, still not clear since I do not wish to IMAGINE anything.  Nobody knows everything for sure but Michael and those who assisted him, I'll wait for the time.

Also we should consider that Murray didn't even go to the stand to defend himself and his lawyers did their best to lose the trial. In the middle of the trial they changed their minds and they didn't say that Michael drank propofol but they said he injected it to himself. This was a disadvantage for the defense and they knew it but still they went with the plan. I do not know how you see all these things but I personally can say that I can read the script like an open book. It is so obvious to me. But it is just me of course and no one needs to get it the way I do. I am also a realistic but also a dreamer, I just keep the two in balance. When I examine Michael's life, it is so easy for me to understand what a long time plan this is. I think it depends on how you interpret things. But IMO we have enough clues, actually facts to believe that this is a long term plan of Michael and Murray is just a part of the plan knowing all about the plan. With all due respect, I get your point and respect it but imo you're still missing things. Time will tell everything to all of us for sure as long as we keep our patience and love. Blessings to you hon.

[PureLove]

Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.

I think that you are onto something... suspicious//

Finally...  lolol/

Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".

In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.

[PureLove]

Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time."  :shock:

YESSS. I was dancing after he said that. You gotta love Jermaine !

:lol:

Amazing clues by Jermaine again. GO JERMAINE! Love You.  /bravo/

[scorpionchik]

Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.

I think that you are onto something... suspicious//

Finally...  lolol/

Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".

In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.

You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith  up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.

[Dontwalkaway]

I am with you MJJ4ever777.  I have a lot of the same thoughts but you are a great writer.  Thank you so much for what you have written.    There is a spiritual revolution or a revolution in the area of consciousness.  Watch the Freedom Movie.  All of humanity can be free.  It's very simple.  Don't let anyone make you live a life of fear and spread love.  That's all.    There's propoganda, false media, false terror, bad food,economic problems,disasters, diseases etc. keeping people apart, keeping people in fear, and separating us.  We have to stop all this.  It's just your mind preventing you.  Your mind is like your prison.   

Take the next step past just thinking about the death hoax.  We know it's a fake death, fake trial etc.  Think about "Why" this is all happening.  It's to wake the masses up so we can have a spiritual revolution, a revolution in the area of knowledge and concsiousness.  That is the only way to heal the world so humanity can evolve. 

Trust me.  I was stuck in the rut of worrying and stressing all the time.  Worrying about paying bills, buying food,clothes, cars breaking down, stress at work, taking care of kids etc. and struggling to get through the day.  I was getting depressed until last year or so when I found about the death hoax and the reasons why.  It gave me so much hope.  The world can come together in peace and love if we put our minds to it.    Stresses that I used to have are slowly going away and so are a lot of aches and pains.  I was going to the chiropractor for muscle and back pain every 2 or 3 weeks but I haven't had to go for the last 6 or 7 months.  It's amazing.  "I've stopped existing and started living"  All the little things don't worry me so much.   

Take the next step past thinking just about the trial.  Think about the whole world, even the whole universe.         penguin/

Love to you all                 

[PureLove]

Ironically, TS and Front almost always log in and post something on the same day. I wonder if that is a coincidence or those are the same person with different user name.

I think that you are onto something... suspicious//

Finally...  lolol/

Actually I have been trying not to accept the fact because it is NOT a good thing finally. It is a deception and manipulation to members. Not necessary to be TS on the TIAI and Front on the 'Back' thread to play game of "2 different insiders".

In my opinion if TS said that he is not Front, that would be deception. He never said that he is not Back or not Front. I think it is because he wants us to find out things ourselves. Make our own decisions. If you think that TS is not Front, that your choice and it is ok with TS, if you think that TS is Front, that's your decision again and that's ok too for TS. I understood long ago that TS is Front and that is so ok with me if he wants to use different user names. Actually I understand why he uses different user names. TS is for the updates he used to make, TS_Comments is for making posts and making comments to our posts. And I think he got Front as a reference to Back. He is doing something different with every each of the user names. He is using these user names for different purposes which leads to the same purpose which is HELPING US and SHOWING THE RIGHT PATH TO US! Being our guiding light! Which is the MOST important issue that we need to think about TS. Him using different names is NOT important and it is NOT the case.

You sound like personally know TS/Front. Lol. I don't care who are/he/she is/ they, crap so confusing. I don't share your opinion on this one that they GUIDE us. They just try to keep our faith  up from time to time as if they are/is knower. We guide and 'investigate', and analyze things ourselves very well. So far, I even didn't bother reading TIAI initial parts, just a few lately written and see a lot of inconsistencies and approximates. I don't think also that any of them is Back. To me Back differs form Front and TS. Back is most likely Michael, but I can't say the same about Front/TS. But that just my strong opinion so far, could be wrong, but it is what it is.

I wish you shared the inconsistencies you found in TS' posts and again I wish you kept on reading his updates. You would be understanding that it is not crap but truth only proven with facts!

It's also interesting you to say that you do not believe TS/Front is guiding us, yet you still read and make posts on TS/Front's threads. Why need to waste your time if you think that these threads are crap and no guidance at all?

Anyways, this is not a "TS is fake or TS is real" discussion thread, so we should agree to disagree and move on.

[GINAFELICIA]

@Gina...this was not a murder trial, therefore, under the law/definition of involuntary manslaughter, the 'fatal dose' and who administered it is irrelevant when ALL of Murray's other actions and/or failures are taken into consideration.

Here is the relevant part in the instructions referencing this...and prior to this part in the instructions, the judge instructed the jury that THE LAW states that Murray, as MJ's doctor, had a legal duty to his patient (this is a recognized and undisputable 'fact' under the law).

There may be more than one cause of death.  An act or a failure to perform a legal duty causes the death only if it is a substantial factor in causing the death.  A substantial factor is more than a trivial or remote factor.  However, it does not have to be the only factor that causes the death.

To relieve a defendant of criminal liability, an intervening cause must be an unforeseeable and extraordinary occurence.  A defendant remains criminally liable for the death if either the possible consequence might reasonably have been contemplated or the defendant should have foreseen the possibility of harm of the kind that could result from his or her act.

The failure of the alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson or another person to use reasonable care may have contributed to the death.  However, if the defendant's act or the defendant's failure to perform a legal duty was a substantial factor causing the death, then the defendant is legally responsible for the death even though Michael Joseph Jackson or another person may have failed to use reasonable care.

If you have a reasonable doubt whether the defendant's act or failure to perform a legal duty caused the death, you must find him not guilty.

Here's the link to the jury instructions for anyone interested:
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I don't want to insist on this and I won't anymore.
Involuntary manslaughter means he didn't  kill MJ intentionally but accidentally. But still he killed him, but not with intention.

In Murray's case they couldn't prove he killed him. They prove negligence, they prove he didn't call 911 and so many other circumstantial facts BUT they don't prove he actually killed him by a DIRECT action to his body.
If this means Murray is guilty, so be it, but to me it doesn't make sense.

Because in this case 50% of the doctors in the world who lost a patient should be brought before a jury and found guilty.

[MJonmind]

And if TS = Front = Back = Michael, maybe we could add one more.
It's a distinct advantage to have a smaller nose, it can be built to any shape or size. (MJ's favorite character is Morph.)
The major hurdle for believing DD to be MJ is the deformed hands, and with Murray it's the height. I believe this was done deliberately by MJ. Again illusion--magician's tricks. Is Murray sitting in this room or does it have a very high ceiling? Certainly the person taking the pic is also 6'5" and at the same eye level. Without putting tons of Murray pictures here, has anyone else noticed how Murray seems to have so many different appearances--skin color, nose shapes, etc.?
It would be the most delicious irony how Michael killed himself. errrr

[titania]

Omg! Jermaine was talking about the picture of Michael in the wheelchair n he just said "This is Michael at his best, he's like pulling the Willy Wonka act here. Willy Wonka's going out on the carpet, he's limping, and everybody's feeling bad and then all of a sudden he tosses the cane and he does a somersault and says I'M BACK!...he was getting back at the media" And then Ellen said "so he used to play with the media like that?" "All the time, all the time."  :shock:

Is that what he said?Hahaha! good old Jermaine. He also used that wheelchair photo in the book You Are Not Alone. I think that there was a photo of MJ's casket on wheels on the same page....

I haven't seen the interview on Ellen since I live in Europe and it aint been broadcast here yet. So thanks for sharing.

Titania

[Suzy7]

@BeTheChange You did in fact, post a part of the jury instruction's that read along the lines of, "if you have reasonable doubt whether the defendant's action or failure to provide legal duty resulting in death, you MUST find him not guilty".
'Reasonable doubt' applies to involuntary manslaughter cases too, so according to those instructions, ofcourse he COULD be found guilty; but that doesn't mean he had to have been. Many error's were made in the investigation process, and handling of evidence, missing evidence etc., that can cause reasonable doubt.
 As for the hoax it was a  completely different story; if this is a 'Kangaroo Court', then the verdict was predetermined for hoax purposes.

@Bec I recall you not actually calling any part of the hoax a 'sting' on the fans, media etc., specifically, which is what I was referring to.

StrangerInCalifornia, I saw the Jermaine interview on Ellen and it was definitely 'interesting' in the words of Ellen. Can it be more obvious? Lol

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

anyone notice in the connie doco, how CM refers to him as The Source.

i dont think cm is TS. i have a different opinion on that. but just thought the "The Source" reference was interesting as TS has referenced to himself as The Source previously.

L.O.V.E to all.

[BeTheChange]

@BeTheChange You did in fact, post a part of the jury instruction's that read along the lines of, "if you have reasonable doubt whether the defendant's action or failure to provide legal duty resulting in death, you MUST find him not guilty".
'Reasonable doubt' applies to involuntary manslaughter cases too, so according to those instructions, ofcourse he COULD be found guilty; but that doesn't mean he had to have been. Many error's were made in the investigation process, and handling of evidence, missing evidence etc., that can cause reasonable doubt.
 As for the hoax it was a  completely different story; if this is a 'Kangaroo Court', then the verdict was predetermined for hoax purposes.

@Bec I recall you not actually calling any part of the hoax a 'sting' on the fans, media etc., specifically, which is what I was referring to.

StrangerInCalifornia, I saw the Jermaine interview on Ellen and it was definitely 'interesting' in the words of Ellen. Can it be more obvious? Lol

Hi Suzy...thanks for your comments  :

I intentionally included that part of the jury instructions because there was some discussion about 'reasonable doubt' as to whether or not Murray actually administered the 'fatal dose'.  As per the not finding him guilty part that I included...the 'reasonable doubt' directly speaks to whether or not Murray fulfilled his legal duty to his patient and whether or not his failure (if any) resulted in death.

All laws can be interpretive and this one is no exception of course.  And while there were some errors in the investigation, handling and missing evidence...which happens to some degree in every case, no investigation is ever perfect...a jury needs to weigh those errors against the evidence that is available. 

We know it's a hoax and it's obvious that the 'script' called for the deck to be stacked against Murray, for whatever reason.  But from the jury's perspective (IF they were real)...the evidence showing Murray's failure to perform his legal duty to his patient greatly overshadowed the errors made by investigators....absolutely no 'reasonable doubt' there.

On another note...knowing that Murray was intentionally made to look so guilty, and the fact that the jury was NOT sequestered, I wonder if Mike had hoped that they would notice the discrepancies and actually take it upon themselves to research everything on their own.  Maybe he had hoped that (and was testing) the jury to see if their search for 'truth' would be strong enough or important enough to them that they would go as far as breaking the law to find it (i.e. go against the judge's instructions).  I know that if I was on that jury, the judge's daily admonitions would go in one ear and out the other  :lol:...because I wouldn't trust anything said or done in a court of law.

With L.O.V.E. always.

[paula-c]

Murray was negligent, irresponsible, ignorant ( not knowing how to make a resuscitation ). The scene was planned for a conviction, looking at all, it seems that if Murray to do the opposite to what should have been done.
During the research process,  the handling of evidence have errors, lack of evidence, contradictions. All over the world  saw the court decorda with animals of toy, stuffed animals, a court where no one has sworn to the bible ( correct me if i am wrong or if this does not mean nothing ).

As TMZ, " members of the jury told that the decision to find a Murray guilty was not "difficult" , ..they had the verdict the Friday but this was read on the Monday 7/11 to the 1:17 pm ( date and appropriate time )

And the verdict was read out in these terms; "alleged victim", alleged date ", if all this is based on " alleged " we would be talking about a " alleged homicide "

Has reason Im_convinced when said that any person with two fingers in front all this should draw your attention.

I did not know the term 'court kangaroo ", the term used for a farce legal or judicial proceedings where the result of a judgment is determined in advance,.. generally with the purpose of ! Ensure the guilt !

[mjj4ever777]

I am with you MJJ4ever777.  I have a lot of the same thoughts but you are a great writer.  Thank you so much for what you have written.    There is a spiritual revolution or a revolution in the area of consciousness.  Watch the Freedom Movie.  All of humanity can be free.  It's very simple.  Don't let anyone make you live a life of fear and spread love.  That's all.    There's propoganda, false media, false terror, bad food,economic problems,disasters, diseases etc. keeping people apart, keeping people in fear, and separating us.  We have to stop all this.  It's just your mind preventing you.  Your mind is like your prison.   

Take the next step past just thinking about the death hoax.  We know it's a fake death, fake trial etc.  Think about "Why" this is all happening.  It's to wake the masses up so we can have a spiritual revolution, a revolution in the area of knowledge and concsiousness.  That is the only way to heal the world so humanity can evolve. 

Trust me.  I was stuck in the rut of worrying and stressing all the time.  Worrying about paying bills, buying food,clothes, cars breaking down, stress at work, taking care of kids etc. and struggling to get through the day.  I was getting depressed until last year or so when I found about the death hoax and the reasons why.  It gave me so much hope.  The world can come together in peace and love if we put our minds to it.    Stresses that I used to have are slowly going away and so are a lot of aches and pains.  I was going to the chiropractor for muscle and back pain every 2 or 3 weeks but I haven't had to go for the last 6 or 7 months.  It's amazing.  "I've stopped existing and started living"  All the little things don't worry me so much.   

Take the next step past thinking just about the trial.  Think about the whole world, even the whole universe.         penguin/

Love to you all                 

God Bless you Don'twalkaway!!!! It is nice to know I am not alone on this. Once you see the "truth", there is no stopping us!!! LOVE WILL "change the world"! Keep posting! I LOVE YOU!!!