Joe vs. Joseph SOLVED.

[andrea_garay2005]

this is my problem too, it lookes like we didn't get to the end of this....

[loveYouMJ88]

Oh god, I was happy for a moment here and now i'm just so confused  :?
Whats going on here :?:

[Another_Part_of_Me]

He made 2 different passports for 2 different names just in case..... in case like that? lol
idk guys he might have 2 citizenships. There is so many ways to mess up with documents.
Im originally from other country, not USA, but on my travel passport they spelled my name wrong, but they still let me in the USA and no one ever questioned that.
So what im trying to say is that one person might think that if Joe comes from Joseph it might be ok to put it in documents. And another person will think its NOT right, but will close their eyes on it, u know?
Im dealing with all that passport renewal thing right now, and u wont believe how carelessly those people work....

P.S. It would be nice to see the paper work that MICHAEL filled out himself when he applied for documents. If he wrote JOE, some person could think its wrong and changed it to Joseph without asking...... or something like that, u got the idea!

K.

[KacyLovesMJ]

"A fake of a fake is not a fraud"

It is not illegal to fake your death unless you are doing it for monetary gain. Since Michael's life insurance policies have never been PAID OUT (they were cashed in which you can do this legally while you're still alive), there is no fraud there. If Michael is getting help from the FBI on this, then he is in trouble somehow (death threat, etc) or has a close friend in the FBI, which would bring to mind Marlon wearing the FBI hat.

[juliet]

In the beginning, I felt really good that finally something came out from a gov't agency file JOE which makes it more believable/reliable and legal.  The good feeling is because JOE is real and JOSEPH is not which makes the DC unreal - so no death, VERY GOOD.

BUTTTT, when you weigh it with the other documents, example the birth certificates of the children which bears JOSEPH - does that mean the certificates were fake and what is the reason for this.  Same with the Marriage Certificate that bears JOSEPH - does that also mean something else.

OR MAYBE, for TOP LEVEL Documents like the FBI, it must be the real one - JOE , and for the other documents JOSEPH will do.  :?:  :?:

Michael, come back soon and explain this to us, okay?

[i_need YoU]

ok so call me stupid if you must because i am only 18...but i thought you can choose the middle name of your childrens when they are born. Like i have always thought that the middle didn't have to beYOUR personal middle name as well i just thought it was something the parents always thought...do you know what i am trying to say because its really hard to put into words what is going on in my head lets give ex: say my moms middle name was sharon but she has my middle name down as michelle??...is this making any sense to you?? :?:

man this is so confusing!!! :oops:

[Butterfly J]

So far as I know he changed his name twice. Joseph to Joe and then back Joe to Joseph or vice versa...hmmm... can´t remember and also do´t know how trustworthy the source is.
Edid: go to Twitter and read all her tweets. I think she´s not a troll.
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[Happy Feet]

"Joe" or "Joseph"......... I think they are one in the same person here. Both names are in this document :cry: , both seem to be legitimately used and linked to Michael and accepted in his FBI files. If it's just one or the other, than I guess thats what the files would of stated. But it states both names so they must be talking about the same person??  

Any thoughts?

[Ninanina]

It DOESN'T make his DC invalid - IF he's dead.
If he was dead, it would still be valid, because everyone knows he's the respective person in the DC.
I asked a couple of lawyers about that.
Asked a row of questions - that was the last:
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(One lawyer was inspired and even started to write poetry - sweet :-D)

If he ISN'T dead, of course the DC is invalid. But it would also be invalid, if it stated Michael JOE Jackson.
No dead person, no valid DC.
I would just like to know, if the legal consequences would be different...

So, does that actually bring us any further?

But the difference is Legal names have too be on documents such as
Drivers Licenes and Passports.
We know that there are court documents that say both Joe and Joseph
Death certificates have too be full legal names too.

Yes. they do, but for us it doesn't make a real difference.
If he's dead, the DC is still valid.
If he isn't dead, every DC for him is invalid.
Do you see my point?

If Michael came back from the dead, automatically all documents that relate to his death would be invalid!
The difference might be, that he could proove, that he's Michael JOE Jackson, as was stated in most previous official documents, and indeed the REAL Michael Jackson. Nobody would be able to say, the one who claims to be the 'dead' and 'ressurrected' Michael is an imposter.

Maybe that's the reason!?

Or he used this false name to start the rumour (as another member suggested and posted a video about Elvis being alive, false name on the gravestone etc.)

I posted another question on avvo.com about faking one's death.
So far I got only one answer, which suggests I should get a life  :lol:
But I was happy to see this answer got three thumbs down  
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[Lou]

I agree that Joe vs. Joseph is solved. It's now clear, IMO, that Joe is the legal middle name, and Joseph the "public" name.

* About documents which showed "Joseph" instead of "Joe" (for example, children's birth certificates) - maybe we haven't seen the real ones, but something made up by the newspapers - I won't disregard this hypothesis, 'cause it's the only explanation I can find at the moment.

* About the DC, I've found some information, hope it can help!
If we check the link below (US standard certificate of death), we see it written in the first line: "1. DECEDENT’S LEGAL NAME (Include AKA’s if any) (First, Middle, Last)":

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The DC that we saw didn't show his legal name.

[MJLOVER32]

This is great news :!: , all the official documentation is incorrect. May be thats why they were released to prove to believers that he is alive. Maybe thats what the big news of the 21st Dec is all about??? Idk  

[MJJ1982]

FBI documents - JOE
Marriage Contract (LMP) - JOSEPH
Death Certificate -JOSEPH
Children's Birth Certificate - JOSEPH
MJ Will - JOSEPH

??

Driver's license - JOE
Passports - JOE
Motown - JOE
Katherine said JOE

Maybe I dreamt about it, but I thought that the very first DC said JOE too?

[YourLoveIsMagical]

ok so call me stupid if you must because i am only 18...but i thought you can choose the middle name of your childrens when they are born. Like i have always thought that the middle didn't have to beYOUR personal middle name as well i just thought it was something the parents always thought...do you know what i am trying to say because its really hard to put into words what is going on in my head lets give ex: say my moms middle name was sharon but she has my middle name down as michelle??...is this making any sense to you?? :?:

man this is so confusing!!! :oops:

Yes, in America you can name your child whatever you want.  Traditionally many people use the father's last name as the child's last name.  Many people pick any name they want for the child's first name and middle name, whether just a name they like, honoring a relative, etc.  In this case Joseph and Katherine must have picked Joe or Joseph after Michael's father, but it's not a requirement to pick any name in particular.  Michael happened to choose to put his own name in the names of his own kids, but that's also personal choice.  I hope this answers your question?

[DooDoo]

First thing I noticed    It's Michael Joe . The bliss of it!!!

[Diana Jean]

About the Childrens BC's I dont think that matters much. Remember the Anna Nicole Smith case, when she put the wrong mans name as the father? Really, it doesnt mean much.