TIAI June 25

[Mish1981]

We are the ones who have to make the change. Not Michael Jackson, not the govmt. That is the message! But the hoax is not what will save us, and it is not its purpose at all. Michael knows that we are a small minority of people, and when he comes back more and more will jump on board. Very few people see with their hearts, most have to see it to BeLIEVE it.
I hope my point is clear!
Love you all

I agree with you a great deal.

Between all of us, in my little ol' opinion, the murder theory doesn't stand a chance. Neither does the escape theory for that matter. Hoax+comeback is certain.

On the other hand, what is the point to stage believable death including all normative steps: 911, investigation, hospital, autopsy,memorial,  burial, will, DC, etc. if MJ had planned to come back? Just to shock with come back? If there was a life threat, come back does not fit here because illuminati nor Sony cannot be convicted or destroyed in their etirety anyway. So danger will remain forever. Also do not include fakes because those are real or conincidences for non-believers who I think still is majority. Finally the big deal with lawsuits is also make me think about NO come back.
 I hope you all understand that I want him back very much. I just want sound analysis that would make sense to believe that Michael will be back considering all present circumstances.
This being said, I think:
hoax= dead for the world except for children and family.
How possible to live "dead" forever? Hard for me to imagine, but perhaps Michael enjoys it after hurricaine type of life. I anticipate  this depressing theory be debunked since I think we have already debunked murder theory.

While what you say makes sense, I want to throw a couple of things out. Regarding the 911 call, investigation, hospital scene, autopsy, memorial, will, and dc. I try at times to put myself in MJ's shoes, that if I were in danger or wanted people to think I was in danger and I had to exit stage left in a manner of speaking, what would I do. I would do exactly what has been done.

 With all of that being said; If I wanted to get away from it all and fake my death to live an ordinary every day life (like we all know MJ craved), I would like to think since he has been known to be a perfectionist, he would make sure that all the T's were crossed and the I's were dotted! There wouldn't be an error in anything! BUT since there are errors in almost all documents that have been released, those should be red flags that something isn't right. All of the errors, interviews, what's being said against what's not being said, people's actions etc are evidence that something isn't right. Not that interviews, actions and spoken words can be filed under evidence but it's surely noted!
As always these are just my thoughts.

Fine Mish. What if those errors come from not hoax but murder.........or, since we debunked murder theory I suppose pretty good, errors come from accidental death that is so stupid that makes hard to believe. Conrad happened to be careless big time incompetent son of bitch who did not perform his duties and  Michael died. How believable and valid is that?

For example, so far we don't have clear explanation how come there is the autopsy (with errors in it), I mean the way it got out there and used as a basis of investigation (incomplete and suspicious) and manslaughter lawsuit (with real judge, jury, lawyers, and prosecutor).Was coroner bribed or he loves Michael so much that wanted to help him, or there was another's dead body opened up? We did not clear this question up, did we? All we keep saying is "the autopsy is wrong". Well maybe it was not done properly following all rules and procedures, but it does not mean it is not Michael's.....

The fact is that no matter how confidently and successfully we think we debunked murder or accidental death theory, there is no 100% proof that Michael is alive unless he is back and vice versa. What if he does not come back? Would you think that he is dead?

I do think that can be errors on autopsy reports (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login). It is possible that it could simply be that the autopsy report has a few errors. That's one incident. That doesn't explain everything else though. My thought:A few people can say hmmm something doesn't sit right so it can't be. We in the hoax community consist of thousands, I could definitely be wrong but I think that there isn't a way for thousands to be wrong or all have the feeling that something isn't right. I can't explain fully what I'm trying to say. Do I think that if he doesn't come back that he's still alive? Yes. I am not in denial that it could be a possibility that he is dead. I can't explain why I believe that he is a live nor do I think that I should have to explain it. We all have our own opinions and I wasn't trying to debunk what you had said, I was simply throwing out my opinion and going through the eliminating process. We don't have 100% proof that he is alive nor do we 100% proof that he is dead.

Much respect

[paula-c]

I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.

[~Souza~]

I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.

I totally agree with you.

[Miss.Peppers]

Ok...  i will engage.

Often one of my stumbling blocks to the hoax is Karen Faye and Michael Bush.   They both say they dressed Michael for his coffin and Karen states she put make up and wig on him.

To this day, Karen has never deviated from this and insists he is dead and she prepared the body.

I know there have been arguments over whether she is qualified to do this (but to me, that is a side issue.  She is a make up artist and its plausable she could do this).

I still havent heard any valid arguments to debunk Karen and her claims.

[bec]

I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.

On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with  Michael's giant reality movie?

That planted a seed for me.

[applehead250609]

As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything.  For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5!    <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->

While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some.  In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.  If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it.  Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend!   <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->

It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years.  How solid is your hoax evidence?  Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?  No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest.  For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear.   <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->

In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory.  And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory.  You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.  For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned.  However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?  Can you debunk this?  Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?  That is the main question of this level.   <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> 

Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6).  I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09).  More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this.  Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.  Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax?  Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax.  I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.   <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either!  The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.  And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him.  Which is it?  That’s the multi-million dollar question!!!   <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->

As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything.  For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5!    <!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->

While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some.  In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.  If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it.  Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend!   <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ -->

It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years.  How solid is your hoax evidence?  Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?  No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest.  For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear.   <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->

In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory.  And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory.  You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.  For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned.  However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?  Can you debunk this?  Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?  That is the main question of this level.   <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> 

Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6).  I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09).  More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this.  Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.  Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax?  Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax.  I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}.   <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either!  The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.  And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him.  Which is it?  That’s the multi-million dollar question!!!   <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->

Hello people and hello TS!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much Ts,for this redirect.Finally something I like to discuss  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .Your post about about milion dollar bill reminded me about the MILLION DOLLAR BABY movie, lol. The KING OF POP is indeed a BILLION  DOLLAR BABY  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .
Michael is like a glue for us,we stay on this forum,day and night to found out what really happened to him,but are we looking in the right direction???
There is always 2 sides of the story,like is always 2 sides the same bill or coin.Which one is it:was he killed or is he alive? Which one is the real one? What if is just a illusion??
 You know I remember when I was a little girl,that I always asked myself why everytime I read something about Michael's life,his birthdate was not the same.It was not clear for me,if he was born in 1958 or 1959.But finllly I said that maybe it was just a mistake and the correct year is 1958.Now I'm not so sure anymore.It was a long time ago ,but now we have INTERNET and we can find out many things.We can search ourselves and find once and for all who is who in this story.Who is the man we never knew and saw before.Like MIchael use to say at Grammys in 1993:"In the past few months(I would say years) I have gone from 'where is he?' to 'oh, here he is again'..."
I have to confess now that if the trial from 2005 hadn't occure ,I would never found out the TRUTH.
But if you look closer,or you try harder you will see the big difference,lol,like in TMZ POST: What's The Big Frigin' Difference?
I know that now people will call me crazy,that will say what is this gril talking about? It's ok because even I think I'm crazy,lol,imagine spending two f... years of your life, investigate about someone who you never meet before.
Here is not about Illuminati  ,or some kind a evil plan to murder The King of Pop.Is about two brothers who had to share the same dreams and the same PAINS,every day of their life  <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> .This is what I call courage  and dedication to be the best,to help and try to make a change in this miserable world.None of them are some kind of saint,they are flesh and blood just like you and me.
I'm sorry if I offended someone here but Ts said "there is no limit on any particular category of discussion".
 After spending many nights without any sleep I finally found ONE SOLID(from many ofcourse) PROOF about MY THEORY  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .But first just read this poem from DANCING THE DREAM and then enough with mistery,lol.


I, You, We

I said you had to do it. You said you didn't want to. We talked

about it, and we agreed that maybe I could help.
I said you were wrong. You insisted you were right. We held each

other's hand, and right and wrong disappeared.
I began crying. You began crying, too. We embraced, and between us

grew a flower of peace.
How I love this mystery called We! Where does it come from, out of

thin air? I thought about this mystery, and I realized something :

We must be love's favorite child, because until I reach out for you,

We is not even there. It arrives on the wings of tenderness : it

speaks through our silent understanding. When I laugh at myself, it

smiles. When I forgive you, it dances in jubilation.
So We is not a choice anymore, not if you and I want to grow with

one another. We unites us, increases our strength; it picks up our

burden when you and I are ready to let it fall. The truth is that

you and I would have given up long ago, but We won't let us. It is

too wise. "Look into your hearts," it says. "What do you see? Not

you and I, but only We."


My proof is the History tour,Munich 1997.I have to say that "Michael" performed in Munich twice in that tour,once in 4 july and the second in 6 july.So is just 2 day apart if someone wants to come and say he just lost weight and some height also,lol.After watching this performance many,many times(because I like very much the part about THE BUG from History tour),something hit me in the head.Let's just say that you,as a person or a fan you don't know what I just told you about two concerts in Munich.You go on youtube and write for example :history tour munich jackson 5 medley and you get a mixture of both of 4 and 6 july.As I told you before,you will not even noticed there are 2 days mixed up!!!!!!!!!!!!! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> .Now TS pay attention and please if you can,explain this to me how it's possible
to have 2 different Michael's on 2 days apart??


Michael Jackson - Medley "Jackson 5" - Live in Munich - HIStory Germany Tour (1997) - HQ
[BBvideo 425,350:16sbtu35]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7IMSFBONg[/BBvideo:16sbtu35]

Ofcourse this is just one example ,from many others I found out.There are many even in Bad and Dangerous tour also.It's up to you to put or no the Hoax glasses and work hard.
So Ts ,finally there is a HOAX ,but it's no about some murder.Family is in the hoax for sure,they are supporting all this from the begining.What I'm curious to found out is when and how this big adventure it' s gonna end  <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Will people ever found out about the other brother or no? Ts please tell me what do you think ,and if you don't agree with what I just wrote,give me some arguments.


P.S. Michael J.Jackson thank you from the bottom of my heart for this BIG ADVENTURE that CHANGED MY LIFE
I LOVE YOU MOST!!!!!!!!!

[curls]

What I have trouble getting my head around is that if this is all very serious, involving death threats, FBI, danger etc etc, why did MJ have to 'die' in order to expose it?  Crimes are exposed everyday without those being threatened having to fake their deaths, and if they do, as in a witness protection programme, then they don't leave trails of clues to them still being alive. How was he able to take possibly decades to meticulously plan and execute his faked death and turn it into what promises to be the most epic of MJ's masterpieces to date?  If the danger was imminent then he surely wouldn't have had the time, or presumably the inclination to make a huge production out of it. And if it was a more ongoing, longer term threatening situation (which I personally am more inclined to go along with), why did he have to 'die'?  Was it that he saw it as an opportunity too good to miss to 'kill two birds with one stone', i.e. bring down those against him and, at the same time, create a work of art the like of which has never been seen before.

[reveron1958]

Applehead - Can you tell us which date that clip is from, and show an example of the other date please?

Love the bug clip  lolol/

[bec]

What I have trouble getting my head around is that if this is all very serious, involving death threats, FBI, danger etc etc, why did MJ have to 'die' in order to expose it?  Crimes are exposed everyday without those being threatened having to fake their deaths, and if they do, as in a witness protection programme, then they don't leave trails of clues to them still being alive. How was he able to take possibly decades to meticulously plan and execute his faked death and turn it into what promises to be the most epic of MJ's masterpieces to date?  If the danger was imminent then he surely wouldn't have had the time, or presumably the inclination to make a huge production out of it. And if it was a more ongoing, longer term threatening situation (which I personally am more inclined to go along with), why did he have to 'die'?  Was it that he saw it as an opportunity too good to miss to 'kill two birds with one stone', i.e. bring down those against him and, at the same time, create a work of art the like of which has never been seen before.

That's how I think.

TS brought up entrapment, but I have been thinking less along the lines of preventing entrapment for a sting and more along the lines of preventing entrapment for a fraud accusation once this giant media hoax is exposed.

I'm thinking along the lines of a reality production, movie, documentary, performance art kind of thing... preventing entrapment by saying from the beginning, the truth is out there... yes he fooled some, but not all, so therefore it's not a lie... it's art, a movie, entertainment... can't you see? It's all for love aka fun aka entertainment.

And at the same time expose some evil doers who have been out to destroy him for a long time.

I'm thinking the FBI is involved simply to prevent any legitimate inquiry based on the script... so they aren't fooled and thus decide to look into Murray and the other shady doctors themselves...

...because that would sincerely not be good. Say MJ does this elaborate hoax and fools everyone... including the authorities... fools them so well that they open an investigation into the MJ death (hoax) and discover the hoax before MJ has a chance to BAM=giant hoax fail...

... so involving the FBI from the beginning... as well as LAPd and LAFd... is necessary, just to keep up the illusion for everyone else aka the rest of the world.

[applehead250609]

Applehead - Can you tell us which date that clip is from, and show an example of the other date please?

Love the bug clip  lolol/

Hello reveron1958 and welcome in our house!!!!!

I have to applogise because I have to cook for my family now,you know family is first!!!!
Like I told you the clip I posted is from Munich and it's a mixture betewn 4 and 6 july.I had some difficulties finding out both of them separate because Sony bloked all that parts from Munich,lol.
But after a night without sleep I foud what I was searching, 8-) .
I promise you I will be back later with proofs,Excuse me now.LOVE YOU

[Lemonbread904]

Guys, I got very curious and decided to look up Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Churches. And you will not believe what I found. I did some digging and it was stated that a number of the priests use alcohol and sometime drugs on their victim to make them comfortable before abusing them. If you look up incidents in NH you will find all this information. And you would not believe what year one of the articles stated(1992).

This is something to look into.

[Elsa]

 TS explained the use of the number/alphabet code in THIS IS IT. The I's represent 999.
If F=6, B=2, I=9 then FBI is 6-2-9
This is the 'death' date - except that the 50 is missing.
06-25-09

 F B I
6 2 9
yes, with out the 50...50 years old
also adds to 17....the tour bus
what is is about the number 17...it pops up a lot.....what is on the 17th page of the FBI report?
62+9= 71
71 was the ambulance
6+29= 35 any thoughts about 35?  


Just thinking out loud here.......
Blessings!

Hi wishingstar, thanks for helping to look at the FBI numbers. I didn't think to add them! FBI=17 and the investigation by the FBI covered 17 years.  The 333 pages they released are in seven files. The interesting thing about the 62+9 is that these numbers occur in some of the file names. In fact the seven files use the numbers from 06-25-2009 in various combinations. The only exception is one with 305 (35!) These numbers can't be a random coincidence.  
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  I haven't paid much attention to the files themselves. I think it's the timing and the numbers that show the FBI are involved in the hoax.

[Kristina4LOVE]

I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.

On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with  Michael's giant reality movie?

That planted a seed for me.

Thank you bec for a reminder!
I think it was me who posted it, if i remember correctly. Anyway here it is again You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers

We can help: if you are a writer, author, or producer who wants to feature the FBI, we may be able to work with you to create an accurate portrayal of the Bureau.

We’ve been doing it since the 1930s. Most recently, we have assisted the motion pictures “The Kingdom,” “Shooter,” and “Breach”; television programs like “Without A Trace,” “CSI,” “Numb3rs,” “Criminal Minds,” and “The Closer”; and books like Big City, Bad Blood; Lone Wolf-Eric Rudolph: Murder, Myth and the Pursuit of an American Outlaw; and Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists on American Soil.

Specifically, the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit (IPPAU) in our Office of Public Affairs is a small staff that spends a portion of its time working with domestic and international screenwriters, producers, authors, and other industry personnel associated with TV programs, documentaries, made-for-TV movies, books, and motion pictures. In addition, the unit is the same one that manages national and international publicity for wanted fugitives (including the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives”), Most Wanted Terrorists, and missing children, and it also coordinates other proactive initiatives.

There are much more details in the link...

[GINAFELICIA]

@applehead so you believe the twin theory?
I watched the clip and thrie to not get distracted of the gp and I tried to see the second MJ but really I don't know what you see and when you see the second MJ....maybe from 4:30?

At the beginning there is a smiling MIchael, with the face of an angel, at the end he is a little different, in fact only the expression on his face is a little different so finally I don't know - do you see 2 Michaels?

Please point the moments where you think there is the second Michael.

[paula-c]

Kristina4LOVE wrote:

bec wrote:
paula-c wrote:
I do not believe the murder theory, but I do believe that there was a real threat of death has long wanted to destroy him with false accusations of child abuse and failed to take him to jail, I think it may be the same, the FBI will not engage in play, this is very serious.

On one of the TIAI threads someone posted a link to the entertainment department of the FBI and that they do indeed participate in entertainment productions to ensure realism and provide reference for such productions. If there is an entire department of the FBI reserved for such relations, why is it so hard to believe they would be involved with Michael's giant reality movie?

That planted a seed for me.

Thank you bec for a reminder!
I think it was me who posted it, if i remember correctly. Anyway here it is again You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... -producers
Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers

We can help: if you are a writer, author, or producer who wants to feature the FBI, we may be able to work with you to create an accurate portrayal of the Bureau.

We’ve been doing it since the 1930s. Most recently, we have assisted the motion pictures “The Kingdom,” “Shooter,” and “Breach”; television programs like “Without A Trace,” “CSI,” “Numb3rs,” “Criminal Minds,” and “The Closer”; and books like Big City, Bad Blood; Lone Wolf-Eric Rudolph: Murder, Myth and the Pursuit of an American Outlaw; and Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists on American Soil.

Specifically, the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit (IPPAU) in our Office of Public Affairs is a small staff that spends a portion of its time working with domestic and international screenwriters, producers, authors, and other industry personnel associated with TV programs, documentaries, made-for-TV movies, books, and motion pictures. In addition, the unit is the same one that manages national and international publicity for wanted fugitives (including the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives”), Most Wanted Terrorists, and missing children, and it also coordinates other proactive initiatives.

There are much more details in the link...

I read the link later, the headache is coming back