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[lotta5891]

so ... michael will never come back..

[ladyartemis]

so ... michael will never come back..

That is not what is being shared here.  I see you are new, welcome. Have you read all of the previous TS posts?  If not, you should read there, it will be a big help for you with this one.

bearhug

[scorpionchik]

here we are again with only two choices.  why do you always do that? do you live in a world where there are always only two choices?
i figured it out , you must be my husband , he can't handle having more than two choices either.

:lol:

[JukeBox]

Suppose the murder theory were true:

1.MJ's family would be MURDERERS, and on the side of the Illuminati, because
(a)They planned MJ's memorial on 7-7-09, 7 years from his will written on 7-7-02, and
(b) while his death on 25-6-09 was 77 days from 9-9-09, they planned his burial 7 days from 9-9-09,
to make both (a) & (b) to coincide with the 777 shirt he wore in TII so that it appears to be a death hoax.

2.TMZ is on the side of the Illuminati, for giving us multiple 'clues' that the entire murder was planned - e.g. http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7/

3.Sony AEG/Columbia Pictures, and some of the TII production team are in on the murder (made to look like a hoax) because the film was planned exactly to last 111 minutes.

4.The FBI are ALSO in on the murder, because they released exactly 333 pages of MJ files.

I'm trying to evaluate the incentives and motivations for each of them to be on the side of the Illuminatii. For the FBI, perhaps they would not have much of a choice but to take part in the murder plot IF the Illuminati has a certain control over the government or government entities. For Sony to be part of a murder plot would not be hard to believe, because MJ's death would bring in more profits than it did in the 'last few years' of his life. For TMZ to be in on the murder plot: again, they could easily be profit-driven given that releasing MJ news first-hand would give them greater readership.

As for the family:
This is hardest to comprehend. Why in the world would they want to murder their brother/son?
1. They are all secretly jealous of MJ's success and hate him.
2. They are after money - the Illuminati could have promised them a large sum of money, and they could make some money off MJ's death (e.g. selling interviews/stories).

I'm sorry TS, I can't offer anything concrete to debunk the murder theory, but it seems like the murder theory is a possible explanation though my perceived likelihood of it being true is very low, simply because I cannot believe that the Jacksons are capable of being heartless and hateful towards MJ. That of course being based on my intuition and feelings, which is not the cold, hard evidence you want.

Can't wait for your own debunking of the murder theory, TS.  bounce/  moonwalk_/

[GINAFELICIA]

These are cool. But I would like to know what's written in small letters. Can someone help?

Some think he is alive, some think he was murdered by illuminati, some think he was killed by Sony to make an easier way to the catalogue, some think he was killed by Murray by accident.

Given Michael's dedication to change the world - I think it's not so crazy to believe he was murdered because he couldn't keep his mouth shut and his popularity was still huge, even after all the allegations. On the other hand, if they wanted to kill him they could have done it years ago, as for a few years before 2009 he wasn't so vocal so he didn't seem to be a threat anymore, but maybe the planned comeback and the fist to an imaginary enemy in the London press conference made them take imediat action, before the "damage" was done with the This is it tour.

On the other hand, Michael was sad about the accusations that he tried to deny his race by bleaching his skin. OK maybe I cross the line with this but because Murray is a black man - I don't see him involved in murdering another black man. I don't say it's not possible though. Well I don't know too much about this subject, I just think it is similar with what is happening for centuries in another countries where 2 different nations share the same teritory. There's always going to be a blind fight going underneath.

But what about this pic of Murray - I don't know these kind of things but some say that thing around his neck is a mason simbol?! And of course I have no proof but it is possible these people kill - from what I know by now it is possible they kill those who speak against freemasonry. I repeat there is not direct proof for this, just....some deaths are misteriously related to speeches against masonry.

[curls]

It's time to test what you have learned in the last two years.  How solid is your hoax evidence?  Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?

I ask myself this question on a daily basis recently, so I really welcome your post TS! Playing devil's advocate, looking at the other side is essential.

Problems arise for me because gut feelings and instinct, overide the 'evidence' and always lead me back to the hoax, not murder, scenario. I have questioned the suspicious deaths of other famous people in the past, questioned the 'suspicious' part but never the actual 'death'. With MJ everything is different.

I'll be back later with more thoughts - thank you for opening this discussion. Let's try and prove MJ is dead!

[Grace]

Well, I did not expect THIS to happen on June 25, 2011.
But it DID. And that sealed it for me.
I watched a state TV channel.
What did they broadcast?
A soap about conspiracy theories ridiculing without ANY logical argumentation those questioning.
It started with a long detailed elaboration on Paul Mc Cartney's double, covered briefly Elvis, extensively Pearl Harbour and very briefly Michael (so as if they were not sure about whether he faked or not).
And every once in a while they would fade the $ pyramid with the allseeing eye in.

I have no proof for my statement, but I firmly believe that Michael outthought them.
They do have a pattern that you will notice when knowing about them.
When following the news you can identify what they are about.
That's their major Achilles' heel: they are predictable.

L.O.V.E. and blessings to all.

[sailya]

I'm so happy to see your post again, TS.  You are such a great teacher! :lol:
Level 4 is really challenging(for keeping the faith ;) ), but now we get level 5!penguin/

I LOVE YOU ALL & GOD BLESS;)

[scorpionchik]

Interesting transition of theories, from "sting operation or sting court" to "illuminati outsmarted and killed MJ" or "MJ outsmarted illuminaty and hoaxed his death". This last theory on the other hand  contradicting "come back" theory, why would MJ wanted to come back & continue his "cold war" with illuminati if he is already free perfectly staging death, and "sting operations" because FBI and court majority people are illuminati & won't act against.
If  illuminati  killed Michael, the motives are:
1. Lyrics of his songs enlighten people about reality and healing the world which is against illuminati goals?
2. They jealous of MJ success, some black man from Indiana easily earns millions?
If Michael outsmarted them, I don't see why he should come back and continue again be a target.
As for what exactly happened, I think family is the answer. Normally when  someone's  child is killed, the parent would have not sought  money remedies filing  wrongful death lawsuit. As Jacksons used to say about Chandler's father who  agreed to settle case for large $$$ instead of wanting to see Michael in jail "for what he did to his child".  If child is killed,parents & sibblings would have participated in  investigation case themselves to find out who is behind the murder & used CM as a scapegoat as they say. Only 4 years in prison for manslaughter is not what would be the right punishment for killing MJ. How Jackson can be satisfied? Then should bombard the prosecutorr with questions about tapes and why defendant is not charged with murder, why other doctors are not charged & investigated ,etc.
Instead, we see them calm, indifferent, writing books, working, & spreading clues. After all if Michael is really killed, then Jacksons most disfunctional, heartless, bloodless, selfish monsters deserving disrespect & be ignored.

[MJonmind]

So glad to hear from you TS!
Yikes these levels are getting tough!

I'm more inclined to see what the best thinkers/writers here have to say, since I have thousands of pieces of scattered hoax evidences all jumbled in my head, each one with its own possible contrary evidence to prove it wrong or coincidental. That's what's maddening--nothing is solid.

My question is how could MJ have people involved in the hoax such as his family, but only give out enough information without endangering the overall plan should something leak to the wrong people. Afterall these are ordinary people with varying degrees of ability or willingness. The people in on it need to know at least enough for their assignment to make sense and for them not to make a stupid mistake from a misunderstanding. MDC, you mentioned them possibly learning MJ's hoax plans from the Neverland raids and finding MJ's prolific notes scribbled on various details. But even if this happened, still the overall master plans are all just going to be in his head and nowhere else, and they would have to do torture on him to extract that (MJ is the composer putting together the 'notes' in harmony). TS has already mentioned the 4 or 5 reasons for the hoax, and so there are probably also layers of meaning behind aspects of the hoax, such as a magical/illusion act but also a spiritual significance. The Illuminati and Freemasonry are also run that way that members in the bottom level (pyramidal) only know enough to carry out their task such as operating a charity, and they answer to superiors on up in levels to the top who know everything (the eye) with supposedly evil intentions to rule the world as a few master over many slaves.

I agree with others here that everything to me since right after believing on the hoax, rests on the behaviour of his family especially his 3 children-- UNLESS every one of his siblings and parents are truly out to kill him for his money, and these 3 children are not really his and are only with a double of MJ. All mind-bending stuff that I hate even thinking about, but my mind has agonized over many possible scenarios all this time. So assuming his family do love him and those ARE his 3 children, they do not act like someone whose brother/father was horribly murdered, but seem happy, well-adjusted, pursuing careers, school and life.

If the Illuminati were truly after MJ they would have found many ways  to stop him such as, charging him guilty and sending him to jail in 2005, assassinating him with some deranged sniper, severely censoring the internet and removing MJ and hoax related material during this time, threatening his family and friends and forcing them to say and do things.

TS said, "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.  "
This says that the Illuminati managed to piece together the hoax plans and killed him on June 25th, but then afterwards would they really go to the trouble of continuing with hoax clues for 2 full years for a dwindling group of believers that are a tiny percentage of world-wide MJ fans, and that would be completely not noticed by the rest of the world.
I also have some questions about the involvement of multinational companies being involved in the hoax who I had always read/thought were involved with Illuminati such as Coca Cola, McDonalds, and also big media such as TMZ and Warner/AOL and Hollywood and the music industry, the FBI  who it seems we are being led to believe are helping MJ carry out aspects of this hoax. This tells me that the Illuminati, whatever or whoever they are, could possibly be working with Michael and not against him in this hoax. There have been threads on them using MJ as a sort of false coming Messiah role to fulfill an apocalypic scenario. Would MJ go along with a plan of deceiving the world on such a massive scale because of a big ego? No, IMO.

I'm of the opinion that it is God who is playing both sides of this chess game, controlling and moving the players as He chooses.  MJ sings in this newly leaked song, It's All in Your Name.

Only God knows
[fade:268xaoml][dropshadow=blue:268xaoml]That it's all in the game[/dropshadow:268xaoml][/fade:268xaoml]It's all in Your name

It just always seems to me that every suggested way of making sense of everything in this hoax always has problems, meaning that no one is able to put the pieces together properly, or we are missing a LOT of key pieces. crash/  errrr  mj_dance/

[LunaCielo]

;) Hello TS, yours reappear every time is for me a confirmation of what I know by June 25, 2009: Michael is the author and the manager of this extraordinary hoax .
I don't speak a little more because I love so much   read and investigate all your posts and messages of this great forum.
But I'm in the  army  of LOVE for Michael and I  am sure,  at this time "enlightened" have been overshadowed by Michael.

I'm sure that level 5 will challenge all of us that we put our trust, but with independence of mind, it is a journey so deep that all senses are in   alert even though often  there are days that lead to discouragement and despondency.
However all this is useful for  extend our  intellectuals borders and increase the mental capacity to look beyond, forever.
I always think that the most difficult paths lead to great destinations moonwalk_/

[underthemoon]

Dear TS,
thank you for your new post ! It will take for me some time to translate and think it over, but i will always here to listen to your posts and make deeper thoughts about it.
It's much more global and bigger than the most of us can imagine.
Thank you so much ! bearhug

[MashMike]

Hi TS, glad to here from you esp. today, though i dont comment much on your posts, i read them regularly with great pleasure, looking forward to level5!!I'm more keen on the theory that MJ was smart enough to escape before the Illuminati could get him.

[Lemonbread904]

MDC, I think that what you wrote about the removal of the mask from the children makes plenty of sense. If we do not do anything else right in this world as human beings, we see that making sure that no one say bad things about his children. I also notice that the fans of Michael's music are very quick to protect his children. I love that, because that is what Michael wanted out of life. For us to protect those that cannot protect themselves. IMHO I think that Michael knew that some point in time he will have to reveal the children to the world. And he was hoping that the love that he received from all of his traveling about the world will extend to his children. And just like you stated. If they are show in the media then we know that they are OK

[MissG]

Option 1: MJ was murdered. He is proven to be more worth dead than alive.
Option 2: MJ faked his death. He is proven to be more worth dead than alive.

I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.

Unless it is a metaphor, if the case is that MJ is in deed dead, then I would radically change my view point about Michael´s family.

How solid is your hoax evidence?  Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?

50-50  ;)

However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?  Can you debunk this?  Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?  That is the main question of this level.   :shock:  

That´s the imagination part imo.

Going with the he is alive theory, I believe that MJ was adviced to put is finances and career back in order and the drastic solution was the so called death. Besides taking his life back under some form of normality, now that the kids are growing up, it was also necessary to clean Michael´s image from all of the injustices and past accusations as well as demasking the drug industry and a long etc.

Also, Michael wanted to bring the family values back, imo.

I have so many theories any way... :|

The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ;

We all know somehow what happened to MJ, but not on June 25th 2009...but during his whole life, mainly the late years.