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[TS_comments]

As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything.  For those who did not forget "NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS"—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5!    typing/

While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some.  In fact, this level is not for newbie's, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead.  If you can't handle this level, then please just skip it.  Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend!   afraid/

It's time to test what you have learned in the last two years.  How solid is your hoax evidence?  Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination?  No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that's okay, because I'm not here to win a popularity contest.  For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear.   bounce/

In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory.  And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory.  You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want.  For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ's death was certainly planned.  However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?  Can you debunk this?  Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?  That is the main question of this level.   :shock:

Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would've been much different (which you will see in level 6).  I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09).  More than once, I've said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this.  Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {http://twitter.com/#!/jermjackson5/status/70265607685283840}.  Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax?  Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax.  I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=19277}.   :roll:

If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn't know about it either!  The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.  And if they don't know about any hoax, it's because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him.  Which is it?  That's the multi-million dollar question!!!   argue/

[peterpanswendy]

Two years of investigating has prepared us for this. Bring it on  mj_bad/

Allow me to dig into my evidence file and I'll be back after work!

[wishingstar]

Illuminating question TS......I shall return after the dust truly settles and I can wrap my brain around it!
'Till then....nothing but love and blessings to all ( you too TS )

Blessings!

[paula-c]

! ja ! I am list :geek:

[Kristina4LOVE]

Hey hey you did redirect today! michael-jackson/
The only good thing that happen to me today bow/

[RK]

Awesome. Debate away TS . All the logic  in the world can't extract the inner knowing that comes by way of revelation / intuition/ discernment. Might not stand the test in a court of law, but it rules the roost in my heart and head.

[Andrea]

Welcome back TS! Even though I know you never left.  I get what you're doing, to prove it's a hoax, all other scenarios (re: murder theory) must be eliminated.

About the Illuminati finding out about the hoax before and killing Michael to fit in with the timings, for this reason is why I think the hoax actually happened on the 'other' day.  In case TPTB did find out and were planning to kill him on June 25, MJ outsmarts them and is already safely tucked away when the 'death' is re-created on June 25. Because we do know there was an 'other' day and there has to be a reason why.

That's all i'll say for now, I'm not on a proper computer so it's hard to type. But good to see you here again TS!

[fordtocarr]

Okay, nice to hear from you TS.  I'm not too scholarly so a bunch of this will just float by me.
Most of what brings me here is heartfelt from living with Michael all these past 40 years or so.  Hard to believe that one could know someone so well, when they've never met.  Especially as I believe that we know the persona that was presented to us in part my the mass media and also by the image Michael chose to give us of him.  We all send out to the world what we want them to know of us and that is what I feel we know of Michael.  But, in between the lines we see interviews and read body language.  We read and hear lyrics and poems.  We absorb into us Michael that perhaps was hidden from the world that just took him at what he and the media presented.  We are the fortunate.  I am here because of that.  What I've learned and loved from finding the Michael in between the lines.
So TS, I think that you post intriguing thoughts.  Much different than the way my mind works.  I think on a much more personal and intimate level for reasonings and actions.  But, I love learning from your great way of teaching.
I really tended to dismiss this Illuminati part of the hoax.  Maybe it's too deep or maybe I chose not to have my mind invaded my such knowledge and just lean on my heartfelt belief in Michael being alive.  I, being a baptized JW know that there a parts of the Illuminati that touched the Witnesses in the early years, and so, also I've chosen not to acknowledge it.
So, now thinking about a possible involvement I have to think that, were that the case, Michael would still be in danger.  I'm sure "they" know he's alive because if they didn't kill him, they know he is gone or that Murray really did kill him.  So, Michael isn't safe, and how and when could he ever be?  And, if you, TS know that, or anyone as far as that goes, why wouldn't you or others also not be safe?  Why wouldn't they go after his kids or family?
I can't wait to see what my FANily uncovers here under this level.
I hope you lead us as the blind, teaching us how to find our way and how to know where we take a wrong turn as we truly are blind and you tend to see.
Thank you for the hope you give to us, and I can't wait to see what good it will do one day to have such knowledge.  Because, as I say, I already believe from my heart, but if my head needs to know also that Michael lives, then I'm glad to learn from you and my FANily here <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> 

[MO_1219]

Welcome Back TS bearhug
Miss you much~God bless you!

[reasonables+luvs+MJ]

I've never really tried to answer these types of posts. Sometimes, I'm unsure how to answer. Thank goodness this one is short, and I guess somewhat simple (that is, if I'm right), because I think I may have an answer (that is, if this post  requires one).

If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn't know about it either!  The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.  And if they don't know about any hoax, it's because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him.  Which is it?  That's the multi-million dollar question!!!   <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ -->

The first sentence had me questioning myself multiple times. So, my question is: [fade:23m49ji1]How come if the family doesn't know automatically make Michael NOT know?[/fade:23m49ji1] Just because they're family doesn't mean they have to share the same brain. Moving on to the next.
[fade:23m49ji1]Just because the family doesn't know about the hoax[/fade:23m49ji1] (which they DO know about)[fade:23m49ji1], doesn't mean there isn't one.[/fade:23m49ji1] So now, my conclusion is: The Illuminati does NOT have Michael. CASE CLOSED. Next question please.

[paula-c]

JentleTouch wrote:

Hello, TS!
With the Sousa's permission I dare to open up a thread with questions for you and will copy my post from the other thread.
I hope you will answer this. Thank you in advance.
My question is have you ever considered a possibility of the family being NOT in the know?

I have read your posts about them that a member here kindly referred me to.
Here is my thoughts:

PureLove, big thanks for posting this. If I understand correctly, TS thinks the family is in on the hoax. If all those mentioned things are the only reason to believe they are really in on it, to me it's unconvincing. Because everyone can interpret it in their own way, that tweet for instance. The chosen words could easily be just a coincidence ( You don't believe in coincidence, I know, I know:) but still ) How many times do we use those words on a daily basis. I know I do. And that doesn't make me be someone in the know. Even if that's not a coincidence, still the different interpretation works. I try hard and I just can't comprehend why would they act in such a cruel way? I mean towards the fans, of course. As far as I know the overwhelming majority of Michael's fans is women. I know how emotional they are. Michael, in my opinion wouldn't just sit back and watch all these neverending tears, suffers and pains, or, even worse, act as if it was just a game, " the adventure ". And he didn't. He had left a few strong clues before he disappeared, but he did it himself. and if he would act along with the family, they should be acting the same way. But they don't. Since the very beginning the family has been trying to convince everybody there is no hoax and Michael is indeed dead. I first thought it was their role and they had been playing just perfectly, Oscar-alike. And now I think they have never been in on it. Maybe just having their guess. Of course, I know there were many " slip-ups" made by them during this " unnervious adventure". [highlight=#ff0000:1jofz65v]My favorite sure was " To the airport, oh I mean to the hospital", made by Jermaine, the one who is the most active convincer ever[/highlight:1jofz65v]( along with Randy and Karen, though she isnt a family member ) Sure, it does NOT look like an accidental remark, but heck I made a lot worse slip-ups and they were really and I mean Really made just by accident. This also goes to all the other ones, that we mistook as well. You know what made me think they are not the slip-ups but the faulse perceptions? The family' behavior. They just DON'T act as if they know anything. If they knew, they would act the same way as Michael. Knowing his nature I just refuse to believe he would ever let them act like this and sit back and watch the fan's reaction to every " Michael is dead, painful, but true " remark, tweet or whatever. Or, what's worse, send an insider and play with them ans ask riddles. NO. That's not Michael I have always known and admired. NO. They at least should be silent. Just S.I.L.E.N.T.!
You may say - Read between the lines. Fine, I will do, and I do but Michael was pretty simple and clear when he left his great clues. We could clearly read PAINS, and there was no need to read between the lines. Also we didn't need to See between the lines ( is there such an expression? lol ) when we clealy saw the moving body inside the helicopter, him in the pig mask with Liz and the kids on the Halloween night or him disguised as the green man in the new version of We Are The World etc etc. The point I want to make is Michael is simple. All the great things are simple. He didnt bend our brain even more, he knew we would be overwhelmed enough already after the 25 of June, he acted precisely and distinctly and he was very honest. He warned us. In TII. " The adventure. There is nothing to be nervous about "
But before the film came out he had done a lot of work with all those well thought-out clues. You just have to be a real fan to see and understand that. Apparently, his family isn't one. Or he just had no choice.
TS , please take notice that Im in no way trying to dispute your words and thoughts, that's just something I want you to consider and comment if possible.

I discredit what Jermaine said, I happened to me I'm talking about something with someone and suddenly say something that has nothing to do with what you are talking about. This will discredit anyone

[suspicious mind]

here we are again with only two choices.  why do you always do that? do you live in a world where there are always only two choices?
i figured it out , you must be my husband , he can't handle having more than two choices either.

[paula-c]

Murray to ask the guards if anyone knew CPR according to the statement of Alberto Alvarez, knows someone who does not know some cardiologists do this?

[mdc]

...so the timing of MJ's death was certainly planned.  [glow=red:nqvl3qd3]However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?  Can you debunk this?  Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?[/glow:nqvl3qd3] That is the main question of this level.   :shock:
...
If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn't know about it either!  The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it.  And if they don't know about any hoax, it's because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him.  Which is it?  That's the multi-million dollar question!!!   argue/[/size]

Well now we're getting to the questions I've been asking myself for almost 2 years. Although if he WAS murdered I don't necessarily think the Illuminati had anything to do with it. The idea that he might have been murdered is the only thing keeping me from sailing on the same boat with everyone else who is so sure he faked his death and will be returning...though I wish I could be on that boat.  The "what ifs" keep me questioning what really happened on June 25, 2009 and on the shore of doubt. Sometimes that's a hard place to be on this forum because "if I don't believe then why am I here," right?  Well the truth is what I want. No matter what it is. Without the truth there is no closure to this mess. And though there are those who say they know the truth, they are not very forthcoming with it. Which always brings me to the family. If I had to make an argument against murder it would be the family's behavior. If my brother had been murdered and I KNEW who did it, I wouldn't be hocking books and tv shows with promises of the truth. I would be spilling the truth to everyone who would listen. Cops, fans, family, friends, they would all know and there would be no price tag attached to it. Some might claim that it would put that family member in danger if they spoke out, but truth has risks sometimes and I would take those risks if it were my brother. Then I'm right back to doubt again when I think "what if they threatened his children?" I would NOT risk the children. Sometimes I think that is why they aren't hiding behind masks now. So WE can watch them. People say the paps should leave the children alone, but as long as they are having their picture taken, and the world is watching, we know they are okay. So anyway, with that I'm back to just enough doubt to keep me going insane.

TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned.  You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me.  Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile.

It occurs to me I'm not making a very good case AGAINST the murder theory so this post is pointless to everyone but me. Just some of my thoughts on the subject and I guess they are as important as anybody else's. For what it's worth, this made more sense the first time I typed it out and I know I forgot a couple things. First time I got it all typed, got ready to hit submit, and then my computer just shuts off. I don't know why. Just BAM! it's off...Cue Twilight Zone music and lots of cussing. lol

[suspicious mind]

thought provoking post .