TIAI April 11

[bec]

You wrap up a movie before you screen it to make sure there are no mistakes that annoying hoaxers could notice. The plan needs to be perfect, waterproof. If the ambulance video was shot live on June 25, it could have been a busy paparazzi-day and Chris might not have gotten near the window to fake the picture and then the staged pic would be useless. Or another pap might have gotten lucky enough to shoot SOMETHING through the window. Not likely, but too risky. No risks at a well planned hoax like this, too much at stake.

Thumbs up to this theory, Souza. A complete hoax start to finish is the most air tight, lowest risk way to do this. Pre-planning and pre-filming allows complete control of each phase, movie editing puts it together to create the story of "The Day Michael Jackson Died".

This means of course that I was right all along  :lol:  There was no body, MJ did sit up on the stretcher going into UCLA, and Van Video was real. The pics and video that show all of these things weren't taken on 6/25/09.

When kicked around (I triedto debunk it when Souza first shared it) it's tight and very plausible. Actually, it quickly starts to seem like the most logical answer of all.

It's a Movie. Duh.

 

[Im_convincedmjalive]

I haven't changed my mind on the corpse being used but, I am providing evidence for those who want to go with the theory of no body used and it is all a movie theory.

I use to watch the show North Mission Road. I realize they use actors in the reinactment of the episodes but these shows are based on real cases. If you read the wiki on Los Angeles Coroner it will give you the names of who is in charge of who. That could also explain who a key person is at the coroner office when it comes to being the few in on it. This still could mean a corpse was used for the other people not in on it. Those who the sting operation was meant to catch and take down.
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North Mission Road is a documentary style show on truTV that details "unique and compelling" cases of the Los Angeles County Coroner Department. The name of the show is based on the road on which the office of the Los Angeles County Coroner is located.

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The Los Angeles County Department of Coroner was created in its present form in Boyle Heights on December 7, 1990 by an ordinance approved by the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, though it has existed in some form since the late 19th century.

All physician staff is under the control of the Chief Medical Examiner-Coroner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran M.D. while the director Anthony Hernandez has authority to manage all non-physician operations and staff under the general direction of the Board of Supervisors. It is unique in the world in that it is the only coroner's office to have an active gift shop.

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'North Mission Road'
Kevin Roderick • October 15 2004 11:25 AM
That's the title of Court TV's new show based on access to the files of the Los Angeles County Coroner's morgue, located at 1104 N. Mission Road. I haven't watched the show, but a few blog entries I've seen liked it. (Here's a post I wrote last year about a visit to the morgue "service floor," as they call it.) The Mission Road offices are also the home of Skeletons in the Closet, the gift shop with a sense of humor ("for those of us of dubious distinctive taste") that sells morgue "souvenirs" and merchandise with the Los Angeles Department of Coroner brand around the world. I wrote about the shop last year for Smithsonian.

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[youtube:1nn6g8vy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChlKQR612n4[/youtube:1nn6g8vy]

I will be back to give an explanation of why a corpse would not cause an entrapment issue. I will explain the difference when it comes to sting operations, when it involves corruption and the need to make it as real as possible when taking down those already committing crimes. 8-)

[Andrea]

Souza, your theory fascinates me...And as I do believe that a movie is definitely a part of this hoax, it makes sense that Michael would that particularly scene to happen just right with no mistakes.  It could have been filmed in real time of course (June 25th), the ultimate reality hoax.  But still, why was there virtually nobody around the house when all this was going down?  That part bugs me.

Either way, it still seems there's no need for a dead body and it's entirely possible that Michael did make the trip to the hospital on that day or the other day.  I really see someone in the video of Ben's when he's at the window of the ambulance, it's blackened but I see a flash of a mysterious shrouded face and hat.  But I'm curious as to what the "other day" would be.  We know there was an "other day" from Ben...but were there more than one "other day"?  Since numerology is so important in this hoax I would think the "other day" date would be of significance.  So was there a lot more that happened on the "other day" than just the ambulance photo being taken?

I am currently perplexed.

[Andrea]

Ok.  So I've been thinking more about your theory Souza.  Had to let it sink in.  You had mentioned earlier that maybe it was filmed in December because of the Christmas wreaths on the gate.  Combine that thought with "we have 4 years to get it right".  Combine those two with this article from TMZ.

Michael Jackson -- Alpha Male?
12/21/2008 12:26 PM PST by TMZ Staff  


Michael may be in desperate need of a lung transplant, according to Ian Halperin, author of a new M.J. bio.

Halperin claims Jacko suffers from a rare genetic disorder known as Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency, which has led to emphysema and gastrointestinal bleeding.

Halperin told In Touch Michael can barely speak and is nearly blind in his left eye.

We called MJ's reps -- nothing.

 
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Then the very next article about Michael the very next day.

Michael Jackson's New Crib
12/22/2008 8:26 AM PST by TMZ Staff  

He's been teetering on the financial brink for years, yet we've learned somehow Michael Jackson has rented a home in one of the most exclusive areas of L.A. for a whopping $100,000 a month.



The $38 million Holmby Hils pad has seven bedrooms, 13 baths, 12 fireplaces, a screening room and, of course, a cellar for Jesus juice. For sleepovers, there's a guest house, swimming pool and garden.

The deal was inked several weeks ago under a heavy-duty confidentiality agreement. Michael already has stayed there.

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So an article written on 12/21 at 12:26 - 911 call time and ambulance arrival time!  :shock:   And the article title calls him an "alpha male" - someone dominant and in charge.  Was the footage filmed that day then?  It could explain the Christmas wreaths and the "four years to get it right" comment as exactly 4 years after 12/21/08 is 12/21/12, the supposed EOW date.  Then the next day TMZ shows us where Michael is supposed to be living...that could explain why there was no one hanging about in the video, if it happened the day before that knowledge was made public!  With it's 7 bedrooms.  

And if that's not enough, the very next article on Michael from TMZ is this:

Michael Jackson -- The New Kevin Bacon
12/23/2008 11:05 PM PST by TMZ Staff  

Michael Jackson has not just leased a $100,000 a month mansion -- by making the deal he's created a connection with Justin Timberlake, Ed Hardy, "Baywatch" and "Dancing with the Stars."


Here's the deal. As we first reported, Jackson inked the deal for the Holmby Hills mansion several weeks ago. The place is owned by the Guez living trust, managed by Hubert Guez, a textile magnate who is the newly named CEO of Ed Hardy. Now here's where the plot thickens. Jacko made a rare public appearance last May at the 50th birthday party of Christian Audigier, the famous Ed Hardy designer.

But wait, there's more. Hubert Guez has a brother, Paul, who ran a massive textile company with him. Paul has a son, Danny, who started a clothing line with Justin Timberlake, called William Rast.

But the story isn't over. Paul's other son, David, is an actor, but he doesn't use his dad's last name. Rather, David uses his mom's maiden name -- Charvet. Yes, the same David Charvet who was on "Baywatch" and is engaged to Brooke Burke.

Kevin Bacon, eat your heart out.

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The article was written at 11:05...remember remember the fifth of November.  V for Vendetta shows there are no coincidences and how everything is connected...so is this article written at 11:05 showing how everyone is connected to Michael a coincidence?  :lol:  :shock:

And then!

Jacko Loves Paul -- Yeah Yeah Yeah
1/4/2009 6:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff  

Those who said Paul McCartney would only regain the rights to the Beatles catalog over Michael Jackson's dead body may have been right.


Sources close to Jackson tell the Mirror Jacko wants to end his 24-year feud with McCartney by leaving his remaining share of the Beatles library to Paul in his will. Jacko snaked McCartney back in 1985 in a bidding war for full ownership of the roughly $700 million Lennon-McCartney songbook

If the rumors about Michael's health problems are true it might not be too much longer before McCartney can sing "Hey Jude" without paying a fee.

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Then TMZ refers to Michael's "dead body" when he is still alive...

The rest of the stories from then until June 25th we all know - MJ being ill, his stuff going up for auction (no it's not!), the This Is It announcement, AllGood, lawsuits and so on..

Their last mention of Michael before the cardiac arrest article was on June 19th, 7 days (inclusive) before June 25th...

Basically, is this all a big fat coincidence or a big fat hoax?  I go with hoax.  And it reinforces TMZ's involvement even more since they were heavily hinting 6 months before the hoax, although nobody would've suspected a thing then.  What I want to know is when the "other day" was.  Possibly when the ambulance scene was filmed.  Was it 6 months before June 25th?  When various media outlets were reporting Michael had 6 months to live??  Is that when the "4 years" countdown started? 12/21/08? I wonder if This Is It was already filmed at that point.  Not that I think he'll wait the full 4 years to come back, I'm still thinking it will be this year.  Ok, I'm starting to go on and on so I'll stop.  Thoughts?

[Its her]

This may seem off topic, but it is not. If MJ really is trying to open our eyes to the NWO, this completely debunks the possibility of him co-operating with someone who will be an assisted suicide. "Assisted Suicide" is NWO DOUBLE-SPEAK for, "Deceive, Drug and Dispatch". It has been, and IS done in hospitals in various places for years, and only because of the few awake and aware, disrupting their plans with court action, has it evolved into legislation to permit this "legally".

[I tried to stay out of this thread, on the subject, but all that talk about the law here and there, as if "legal" means acceptable, has awakened the Mother Beast.]

Don't believe everything you read or hear from the deceived. It is neither for compassion or dignity; it is for population control, and it is done "legally AND illegally, every single day in the ICU and Hospice, somewhere in America.

Neither is there ANY FREE choice involved, once the doctors fill the already beaten down, hurting, despondent-out-of-their-mind, drugged patient, full of fear, fabricating the grimmest future possible. :twisted:  :evil:  :x  

If someone is bent on SELF-destruction, it is their choice, albeit a questionable one.  But it is never for the government to make it legal to facilitate "helping" them die.

THIS IS REALLY CREEPY.

Talk about involuntary commitment. I remember when it used to be illegal to make a contract for anything when one of the parties wasn't at full capacity...Agreeing to Death is the ultimate commitment.

Ponder this: What are you signing when you sign admission papers to a hospital? Why is it that they have to get signed permission to place a pic line or feeding tube, or certain other non ER treatments, but you don't have ANYTHING to say about them keeping your loved one under 24/7 with sedation and the drug of choice for Hospice, which slows all body systems down enough to expeditiously, prematurely ruin their organs? People die of "organ failure" every day; how convenient that no one mentions that it was caused by hospital "care"...

I can't see Michael Jackson being ANY part of this, even after the fact that the contract has been made for such a thing between patient and doctor. If anything, I believe HIS beliefs would compel him to spend the time, pray with the patient to maybe affect a healing, and leave the rest up to God, or at least, talk him OUT of prematurely ending his own life. But waiting, like a NWO vulture, for another's body for his own purposes?? NO.

I am not saying don't go to a hospital if it is necessary. If a "treatment is necessary, the EMTs and ER professionals will do it without anyone's permission. They will sedate you to pop a shoulder back in, or reset a broken nose, or saw a limb the rest of the way off, if they can't save it, etc., because it is necessary to keep you peaceful (unstressed) and alive.  

I'm just saying, don't agree to let them install a feeding tube, if you are ASKED permission, on behalf of a spouse or relative, or they'll sedate them, to discourage visiting them or keeping watch over them (or observing anything), and eventually, convince the family that the person "is not" "in" there, any longer. Of course, if they are too sedated they will be placed on a ventilator. In this case, they won't be able to survive any extubation or shut-off, after two weeks, even if they were only on the vent because of the FIRST propofol!!

Perhaps an extreme situation, but actually NOT so uncommon. In a hospital here, EVERYONE in the ICU is administered anti-psychotic drugs. It is for the convenience of the staff. It is NOT because patients are fighting their necessary treatment...WHY would a normal person of sound mind, madly claw and fight "treatment", such as involuntary sedation? Is THAT scary for ya?

The NWO is based in selfishness, greed and cruelty. They are not going to play fair and nice, only pretend to. MOST people cannot imagine SUCH :cry: cruelty, especially from those who have taken an oath to never cause harm, and are looking you right in your eyes... But, all the time, the NWO/PTB deceive good, innocent, unaware people, speaking to their fears and their feelings, acting like a friend who cares, and lately, in some cases, whispering, "It's perfectly legal, now".

If I have misunderstood, :oops:  and a part of MJ's message is NOT about this evil, NWO deception and Double Speak, then, I am really sorry.

It is still, hands on, true.  

[Yambo3003]

Great theory Souza! It makes perfect sense. Do you think the trial is also prerecorded? Just wondering since you mention the risks of being shot live.

[Im_convincedmjalive]

I will be back to give an explanation of why a corpse would not cause an entrapment issue. I will explain the difference when it comes to sting operations, when it involves corruption and the need to make it as real as possible when taking down those already committing crimes.

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In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing.

Sting operations are common in the United States, but not allowed in other countries such as Sweden and the Netherlands.

Examples
*Deploying a bait car (also called a honey trap) to catch an auto thief.
*Setting up a seemingly vulnerable honeypot computer to lure and gain information about hackers.
*Arranging someone under the legal drinking age to ask an adult to buy an alcoholic beverage or tobacco products for them.
*Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, contraband or child pornography to catch a supplier; or as a supplier to catch a customer.
*Passing off explosives to a would-be terror bomber.
*Posing as a child in a chat room to lure a child molester
*An undercover officer posing as a potential customer to raid illegal prostitution.
*An undercover officer posing as a prostitute to raid illegal patronage.

Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not normally be inclined to do so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.

Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police. Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from country to country. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.

I said I would be back.   As we sometimes do when reading and thinking about certain things while investigating we have relied on our own personal experiences. My experiences in real life help me to understand the sting operation vs. entrapment aspect more than just having an understanding of it by reading alone. I have real life experiences in police stings, corruption/coercion, and police being on my side and others in my known profession.

I am giving some examples of corruption/coercion, stings, and police being on my side. I am not going to go into great detail but I will give enough for people to understand what is allowed in a sting operation. I also said before that I learned how to improve my thinking skills and learned how to avoid bad situations more and more. When you want to catch a criminal you have to think like a criminal. 8-)

Examples based on real life experiences.
Sting Operations-

Early 1980’s when I was working in Anaheim California on the streets. It used to be a common practice for working girls to assume that if we asked an undercover police officer if they were a cop and they said no that would help us to determine whether we wanted to say anything more. We also used to ask the undercover to touch our breast and expose himself so we could see and touch it. Some how we thought that was good enough. :?

I found out the hard way that isn’t the case when it comes to a sting operation. Sometimes the undercover would pose as a cab driver with a customer in the back also undercover. The cab driver would pull up and I assumed the guy was legit because he was in a cab. I got in, solicited, and was drove right to the police station. When I got inside I saw alot of other girls in that sting operation round up. That one was actually funny that I fell for it.

Sometimes the undercover would say he needed time to think it over after he touched me and I him, exchanged conversation of how much and what for. The undercover would drive off and then afterwards I was watched, was allowed to get into another car and was soon arrested by a patrol car. I was taken out of the car and I had no idea who was the cop, was it the guy I talked to earlier or this guy who’s car I was pulled from? :?

Sting operations-

Early 1990’s when I was working in Waikiki Hawaii on the streets. I solicited a white undercover police officer. He had a room rented and I went to his room. It was all set up as if he was a tourist. There were souvenirs and a plane ticket on the table. Luggage in the room and the undercover acted like he had been drinking. We had discussed what the amount would be and he even payed me. He then said he wanted to take a shower.

At this time in Hawaii a lot of Japanese men were being robbed by girls when they went to take a shower. Japanese carried lots of money with them. The undercover was testing me to see if I would steal his wad of cash, I did not. I sat on the bed and waited for him to be done with his shower. He even ran the shower, came out with a towel on and wet hair. He says "Did you hear that"? I knew right then I was busted. He went to the door to act like he heard a knock, pretended to hear it again and opened the door for back up. I was arrested and 86 from the hotel. 8-)

Still early 1990’s in Waikiki another incident was an undercover I solicited and took to my room I used. He paid me and got undressed to his underwear. He layed on the bed, I reached for my condom and was about to perform the act when he grabbed my wrist. He said "You’re under arrest" and I resisted a little because how the hell do I know he isn’t lying. "I said where is your back up"? He was even shook up at that point because they had lost sight of him and it took them awhile to find my room.

When I got to the police station there were other girls arrested by the sting operation and one girl told me the cop even did the deed. He had sex with her, finished and then arrested her. Now this is the corruption aspect. It also is the part when the cop crossed the moral aspect of the sting. This is the tricky part. Lies are allowed and so is how far each officer goes for the most proof they can have but it crosses over then to a moral decision on how far they take it.

Corruption and coercion-

Early 1980’s in Chula Vista California a murder happened to a girl I knew. I had just seen her the night before and used her room. She was also from Portland where I am from. I was out working in the day when 2 undercover’s  pulled up and I solicited them. They then told me they were cops and if I didn’t cooperate with the investigation of the murder I would be charged with prostitution. I said "Where is your back up and I am not going anywhere until I see the police in a car in uniform".

I do not trust men when it comes to them saying they are the police acting as undercover. Many girls have been tricked and killed because of that. After the police in uniform showed up I said "I will go but I am not going alone". So they were going to round up more girls anyways to question them about the girl who got killed so I said "How about her"? The girl came over and we went to the station to talk.

Early 1990’s and late 1990’s Waikiki Hawaii
Corruption-

Sometimes the uniformed police would be called to situations that went bad. In one case the police showed up because the guys me and my friend were with ended up freaking out. They tried to kill us. One held my throat and broke my friend’s elbow at the same time with a karate move. He also pulled a large kitchen knife out. He called 911 to report a robbery but wasn’t giving the info fast enough or correctly. I had to think fast and I screamed the address out so the 911 operator would send help ASAP.

They were about to lead us out the door when the guy who did all the damage to my friends elbow opened the door and the HPD was there. HPD are mostly local Hawaiians and some Samoans. These guys are huge. So we went back into the room. We were being questioned. I explained to the police what happened and why these guys weren’t happy. The HPD said "Where's the money they paid you"?  I gave up my money and she gave up hers. We all were arrested. The guys were charged with terrorist threatening because of the knife. We were charged with theft. The police kept the money. We had the charges dropped because the guys didn’t want to come back for court. They were Asian and most likely involved in gang activity. I dealt with a lot of Japanese Yakuza. The HPD took my money on more than one occasion.

Police corruption and coercion-

Early 1990’s Waikiki Hawaii. The rookies who graduate were sent to the streets in packs. They were to patrol on foot and stop working girls and card I.D. them. They had cards that they wrote physical descriptions and actual name identification. Some time passed by, one night I was out working and a guy in a car pulls over. I thought he looked familiar but I couldn’t remember where I knew him from. I said "Have we been together before"? He says "Yes". So I figured that’s how I knew his face. I got in his car. He started driving and instantly grabs my left wrist and says "Where is ……"?

He was referring to my friend I walked with a lot. I instantly recognized him after he said that. He was one of the rookie cops who I.D. me. I said "I won’t say anything to anyone just let me out". He didn’t and kept hold of my wrist and drove faster. We were heading towards ala wai blvd. When you come to that light there is only one way to turn and that is left. There is one lane turning left and so when he turned he would be closest to the curb on ala wai blvd. I grabbed his steering wheel as he turned causing the car to swerve close to the curb. I then opened the door and jumped out as he pulled off. His car was close to a light pole. The door dinged the pole. I ran to the hotel close on the corner and called 911.

Police that do the right thing-
Continuing from above

The police came. I gave them my story. They talked to me for a long time. They checked the pole. They had me pick out the rookie from a photo line up. They went to his house, found the ding on his door and arrested him for drinking and driving. They believed my story because all the evidence added up. They told me not to worry they would handle it internally. He was fired.

Police that do the right thing-
Murder

Early 1990’s. One girl I knew was murdered in Waikiki. I had just spoke to the guy she ended up going with who took her life. I believe he decided not to go with me because of my height. He was way shorter than me and he had looked me up and down when we talked. I figure he was sizing me up and wondering could he over power me. I was the last person to see her go with the guy. Later on in the night I went to a corner and one of my friends says "The police are at your hotel you use and …..has been killed".

I went to the hotel and found my roommate and her roommate there. They were the ones who found her. We were interviewed. I was interviewed more because I had to describe him being that I spoke to him and saw him go with her right before she was killed. I ended up getting pregnant with my daughter in early 1993 and flew home to have her. The police finally caught the guy in late 1993 because he tried to murder another working girl only she was stronger and fought him. She made so much noise that other people in the hotel called 911. After I had just had my daughter in October the investigators called my house and wanted me to fly there and testify. I explained I couldn’t because I had a newborn. They were still able to convict him.

So those are only a small example of what I have experienced when it comes to sting operations, corruption, and coercion. The undercovers only set up the scene in which I would have already committed the act of prostitution. They did not solicit me first.  They only acted like a potential customer. They may have said hi and what’s up but I did all the talking about money and acts involved. They only agreed with me. Entrapment didn't apply because I was already committing a crime anyways so no coercion/pressure.

I understand this is a totally different situation but in the end a sting operation follows similar rules when catching crooks. That is why the corpse can be used and no entrapment. The people involved in a sting operation can use lies/deception to catch people already committing crimes. They can stage a scene with a corpse as part of the act in the deception. Entrapment would not apply because no one coerced/pressured anyone to commit crimes they already were committing. As TS said the hoax forums avoid entrapment by the clues left because the fact is that anyone could have figured out MJ wasn't dead if they really wanted to. 8-)

[scorpionchik]

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[youtube:2fo66d5h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:2fo66d5h]

Thank you for the video. Me no paghle de France, but of course I got it. Such a melodic language, I love it.  So, the amb. is apparently not the same that was in June 25 and not the one I saw last week at 100 N. Carolwood, it has no E71 on th front; windows are not tinted. It is possible that one of the vehicles windows were tinted for June 25th.
 Conclusion, the 71 station has several ambulance and fire vehicles with 71, E 71number on all of them, in case if they have a few emergency calls at the same time, so they would have enough vehicles to serve, since the Beverly Hills/Bel Air area is pretty big.
The guy is handsome, he resembels  Alain Delon.

[2good2btrue]

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[youtube:sz60onw6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:sz60onw6]

Thank you for the video. Me no paghle de France, but of course I got it. Such a melodic language, I love it.  So, the amb. is apparently not the same that was in June 25 and not the one I saw last week at 100 N. Carolwood, it has no E71 on th front; windows are not tinted. It is possible that one of the vehicles windows were tinted for June 25th.
 Conclusion, the 71 station has several ambulance and fire vehicles with 71, E 71number on all of them, in case if they have a few emergency calls at the same time, so they would have enough vehicles to serve, since the Beverly Hills/Bel Air area is pretty big.
The guy is handsome, he resembels  Alain Delon.

He works with Twiggy from MJHOAXlive.........T&T..T'S..for a while there, I thought Twiggy and Tristan were behind TS..

Anyway, very interesting theory Souza, and apparently, that lady at the corner, is Linda, from Star Maps...AND guess what.?

She is a believer as well...at least now she is.  She said there was some wierd stuff going down that day....this is the video from twiggys site:

And I found this video....interesting angle on things.

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[youtube:sz60onw6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTWKS87CwBg&NR=1[/youtube:sz60onw6]

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[youtube:sz60onw6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GC2XvM62rk&feature=player_embedded#at=38[/youtube:sz60onw6]

[Grace]

In the tourbus video there is something weird that chappie pointed out to me on the phone. At the end there is this lady on the corner of the street that is on the phone: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. Someone on the bus mentions that she is a big MJ fan. So WHY is she there? The ambulance has been in the house for ages, with the fire truck outside. Being a big MJ fan, she must have known it was Michael's house, so why didn't she go there to check out what happened? Apparently she also didn't call other fans, because the street is empty.

The lady in the Dailymotion tourist tour bus video may be Linda.
She's standing at the Starmaps stand - however it's not her selling the maps IMO.
She appears to be quite upset as she's wiping her tears away and is heavily gesticulating.
She's already talking to somebody else therefore not being in the position to answer any questions.
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Is it the same Linda who appeared in the OVGuide video #1, so said to be connected to "Star Flight Tours"?
[attachment=2:1kmz82y2]200901_p1_Linda.jpg[/attachment:1kmz82y2]

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I didn't find any company "Star Flight Tours" in the web.
There's only "Starline Tours", the company TMZ started a cooperation with for Hollywood tours:
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Second interesting detail from the OVGuide's videos:
they were published in January, March and May 2009 on youtube.com and ovguide.com like a series of a home reality movie.

January 2009:
[youtube:1kmz82y2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdLON-hvsHM[/youtube:1kmz82y2]
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March 2009:
[youtube:1kmz82y2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yN9eGKUkhs[/youtube:1kmz82y2]
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May 2009:
[youtube:1kmz82y2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM8AWX2z-Go[/youtube:1kmz82y2]
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Third interesting detail:
a different (real?) Starmaps lady appears in video #2, wearing a "Starmaps" branded T-Shirt.
[attachment=1:1kmz82y2]200903_p2_maingate_starmapslady2.jpg[/attachment:1kmz82y2]


Forth interesting detail:
on "another day", there are only 5 garbage bins out there,
[attachment=0:1kmz82y2]200903_p2_maingate_garbage3.jpg[/attachment:1kmz82y2]

not 13 bins as on June 25 (4 black, 2 blue, 3 green, 1 blue, 3 green).
Another fan took pictures in 2010 and 7 garbage bins were put out on the street, then (despite the house was "empty").

Different colours of garbage bins would usually mean different content and purpose of picking up the garbage - different trucks arriving, one for the blue ones, one for the black ones, one for the green ones. Does it then make sense to place the bins sorted by colour? I'd say yes. Does it make sense to put a blue one in the middle of green ones? Not really except one doesn't care.
I think we may safely assume that on that specific date someone cared about the scenery.

There was some intention putting the bins out on that day.
It was the wrong day anyway. If I recall right, collection is on Wednesday not on Thursday in that area. So either the movie was filmed on a Wednesday, June 24 e.g. and the bins were out on the right day, or the bins were out on the wrong day and we probably would have heard some neighbours complaining about this.

There was some intention putting 13 bins out.
We know that symbolism is playing a key role in this disappearance.

Symbolic Meaning of Number Thirteen

The symbolic meaning of number thirteen receives a shady interpretation in Norse myth, when an honorary banquet was held in Valhalla for Baldur (god of nobility, redemption and admirable strength) among other twelve Norse gods. Loki (the trickster) came to the banquet as the uninvited thirteenth guest. Afterwards, we learn Baldur was slain by Höðr who, to execute the god, was given a magic spear by Loki.

Similarly, the darker symbolism of thirteen continues in its Christian association with the Last Supper. Twelve disciples and the Christ, formed a group of thirteen to share the last meal. Here, thirteen is seen as a foreboding omen as we learn of Christ’s fate after the gathering.

In the same vein, Friday the thirteenth is commonly reviled as it was said the Last Supper in the upper room took place on a Friday. Further, Friday 13th in 1307 was the date on which the assembly of the Knights Templar were systematically assasinated.

In the guest company scenarios we can point to Judas or Loki as the thirteenth figures and so deem the association of the number thirteen as unlucky.

However, one may also consider the opposite, and recognize the enlightened guests, Christ and Baldur as the thirteenth entities. This brings about a heightened perception of the number and lends symbolism of:

    * Ascension
    * Resurrection
    * Enlightenment

In ancient Greece Zeus was counted as the thirteenth, and most powerful god. Here the associations of Zeus give the number thirteen symbolic meanings such as:

    * Totality
    * Completion
    * Power
    * Realization
    * Attainment

The symbolism of thirteen comes into play when we learn of Osiris (the Egyptian god of life, death and powerful solar symbol) was murdered by his brother Typhon. Isis, Osiris’ wife and sister collected his body with intent to restore Osiris back to life.

However, Typhon stole Osiris’ body and cut it into fourteen pieces and scattered them about the earth. Isis continued her quest to revive her beloved, but could only reclaim thirteen of the fourteen body parts (the fourteenth part being Osiris’ penis which interestingly fell into the Nile and was eaten by a school of fish which are also symbolic).

This tale symbolically implies that the meaning of number thirteen is the precursor to completion.

Also in Egypt, there are thirteen steps upon the ladder that leads to eternity. Upon the thirteenth step it is said the soul reaches the source of itself and attains spiritual completion.

There are thirteen moons in a calendar year. As such, the symbolic meaning of number thirteen deals with moon associations such as:

    * Femininity
    * Magic
    * Psyche
    * Emotion

From a numerological perspective, we first recognize the presence of the three. Symbolic meaning of number three is vast and powerful. At its simples, the symbolic meaning of the number three deals with:

    * Creation
    * Completion
    * Order
    * Advancement
    * Mystery

We then recognize the presence of the number one, which precedes the number three. This amplifies the preexisting symbolic meaning of the number one, which deals with:

    * Beginnings
    * Initiation
    * Solidarity
    * Unity
    * Birth

Singly, these individual number meanings put together tell a story of a path that is just beginning (number one), and will lead to greatness in the expression of the union of opposites (number three).

Adding and reducing the single numbers, is a common practice in numerology. Do this, we receive another symbolic meaning of the number thirteen. To wit: 1+3=4. Fours lend a grounding effect to the high-pitch energy of 13. The energy of number four brings the thirteen down to a level where we can begin to rationalize its meaning more clearly. The reduction to four is a message that at its core, the thirteen is a means to an end and this numeric energy will always return us to the calm root or source which is ultimately our cosmic home.

In a deeper numerological perspective, thirteen can be considered the fulfillment or manifestation of the number three.

It is also important to note the number thirteen is a prime number and is only divisibly by itself. This is symbolic of:

    * Incorruptible nature
    * Purity
    * Integrity

In the language of the Tarot, the number thirteen is represented in the Death card, which is symbolic of:

    * Transition
    * Change
    * Inevitability

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All of that IMO speaks for a final "move-out" of "the house" Michael was living in up to this date, a final full-stop, a major change and a new start.
Therefore, yes, why leave that major and most important change to "no body" or a dummy?
I support that it was Michael in the ambulance but I doubt he did the ride from Carolwood to UCLA on June 25.


The most clear video material of the heli rides originated from KABC and it was copied by / sold to other TV stations.
We remember Michael Jackson, the legendary radio commentator on KABC who lended his Hollywood star to "our" Michael on June 25, 2009.

Death of Michael Jackson, the recording artist
Shortly after the death of the pop star of the same name on June 25, 2009, the singer's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame was blocked off due to the premiere of the film Brüno at nearby Grauman's Chinese Theatre. Fans of the late singer started a makeshift memorial at the star belonging to Jackson the radio personality instead. In response, the commentator stated on his website: "I am willingly loan[ing] it to him and, if it would bring him back, he can have it. He was a real star. Sinatra, Presley, The Beatles and Michael Jackson."[11]

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Michael and Michael knew each other - see this interview:
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For initiating an avalanche with prepared material, you only need one good snowball thrown out into the media wilderness. And this is those participating in preparing a snowball and the consecutive avalanche:
- a photographer (like Ben)
- a movie crew (like Ben, maybe a KABC crew, maybe a Culver City crew)
- some actors (see lifetime contracts for dancers etc.)
- some spider sitting in the middle of the media net "leaking" the prepared material through their network to the right "diffusers" like press agencies (TMZ for web, twitter and us, established news agencies like AP, AFP etc. for print and TV to get the media hooked and following and that's it).

If you want an avalanche to take the direction you wish, the snowball must be of the required size, must be round to start rolling, have the right temperature and the right ground covered with snow and the snowball must be thrown into the right direction.
All of these elements were well known by Michael.
For this scenery, you don't really need "live" material when having the right people in the right places.
For the sake of steering accuracy of the desired outcome, it is better to use prepared material than to leave the most important initiator and catalyst to coincidance. (Be it a personal or a "higher impact" project - both intentions require the same dedication when such a change dimension is mandatory.)

We were not provided a full, consecutive footage from Carolwood Dr to UCLA, but only one scene here, another there, one from Ben's perspective, one from a so-said tourist's perspective.

Like in every good movie, the gaps were filled by our own perception, imagination and interpretation (that's where illusion starts). That's where suspense is being created because we don't know what will happen next; we expect something but we are not quite clear if it will be like the scene we assume to come next. Add individual levels of emotional shock, despair and distress and voilà: a full novel story is born out of only a few elements thrown in.

Elements (Each element standing alone as a dot. Us connecting the elements in an individual way doesn't mean they were connected like that as to location, date, sequence, reality vs. fiction etc. E.g. Michael might have arrived at UCLA but not left Carolwood that day if you get me. Sunset Blvd being so empty at noon may mean it was not a business day when the video was taken or the blvd was blocked for taking the video etc.):
- (Prepared) footage of ambulance leaving Carolwood mansion (Hollywood TV, fed by Ben).

- (Prepared) ambulance pictures (E-Online, fed by Ben).

- The photos of Michael arriving at UCLA were real but calculated in the storybook.
(X17-Online reporters?)

- The footage of Michael's family arriving at UCLA were real but calculated in the storybook.

- The footage of fans gathering at UCLA was part of the avalanche, too, and didn't need to be prepared. It was calculated to happen and to be covered by several TV stations.

- Two "explaining" videos with Ben, one from a Norwegian TV station (likely to have been prepared too).

- Contradicting and confusing statements from family, friends, "close sources" - giving their perception, imagination, reality, thoughts, being part of the avalanche and being calculated / initiated as such.

- Memorial - a big show that was contradictory in itself - calculated and prepared to further the avalanche.

- Funeral - another show that was again contradictory in itself - calculated and prepared to further the avalanche.

- Following document "leakages": "contracts", "AR", "FBI files" etc. (how convenient that all of that was inconspicious except that Michael was pictured again as a druggie, incapable, weak, unresponsive character - so nothing new actually in the public / foe's eye, right?) - all of that to keep the ball running, get bigger and more trustworthy superficially.


UCLA is a new building and had its opening only 1 year ahead of Michael's disappearance.
Moving a hospital - "This Is It", Harold Levay, MD on June 29, 2008:
[youtube:1kmz82y2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKA_nQk15AY[/youtube:1kmz82y2]
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There's plenty of video material dated from 2008 about UCLA inside out.
Even public faced an "open house" day before moving the patients in.
Thus, enough opportunity to investigate the building from head to toe without somebody getting suspicious about it and enough infrastructural details being published in 2008 to "know" about the necessary.
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This is the LASD chopper "dry run" on UCLA's west helipad in 2008:

Subtitle:

A Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department helicopter pilot prepares to land on the new medical center's helipad during a dry run.

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Koinkidance: exactly the same chopper N95ODF which would pick up MJ on June 25, 2009.
...
Were we talking prepared material already?  

IMO Michael either left UCLA via the parking garage or via the second small helicopter on the eastern helipad of UCLA which would be both a pretty easy illusion trick to play it safe.

[~Souza~]

This may seem off topic, but it is not. If MJ really is trying to open our eyes to the NWO, this completely debunks the possibility of him co-operating with someone who will be an assisted suicide. "Assisted Suicide" is NWO DOUBLE-SPEAK for, "Deceive, Drug and Dispatch". It has been, and IS done in hospitals in various places for years, and only because of the few awake and aware, disrupting their plans with court action, has it evolved into legislation to permit this "legally".

This is a complete different topic and I don't think we should discuss that in here, but I don't agree. I do not know what makes it so scary in the US, but here in Holland, someone who is terminally ill and in great pain can choose to end his or her own life before they become too sick. A doctor administers the medication and it's done in a very humane way. Those people do not have to jump in front of a train or take millions of pills with the risk of being pumped, they can die with dignity with their loved ones around them. A person should be able to have that choice. If this was a big NWO plan, it would have been legal in the US and they would even have ads on TV for it. It isn't.

Like I said, totally different discussion, but I advise you to watch a Dutch movie: "Simon" which deals with this topic.

[PureLove]

I haven't changed my mind on the corpse being used but, I am providing evidence for those who want to go with the theory of no body used and it is all a movie theory.

I use to watch the show North Mission Road. I realize they use actors in the reinactment of the episodes but these shows are based on real cases. If you read the wiki on Los Angeles Coroner it will give you the names of who is in charge of who. That could also explain who a key person is at the coroner office when it comes to being the few in on it. This still could mean a corpse was used for the other people not in on it. Those who the sting operation was meant to catch and take down.
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North Mission Road is a documentary style show on truTV that details "unique and compelling" cases of the Los Angeles County Coroner Department. The name of the show is based on the road on which the office of the Los Angeles County Coroner is located.

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The Los Angeles County Department of Coroner was created in its present form in Boyle Heights on December 7, 1990 by an ordinance approved by the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, though it has existed in some form since the late 19th century.

All physician staff is under the control of the Chief Medical Examiner-Coroner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran M.D. while the director Anthony Hernandez has authority to manage all non-physician operations and staff under the general direction of the Board of Supervisors. It is unique in the world in that it is the only coroner's office to have an active gift shop.

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'North Mission Road'
Kevin Roderick • October 15 2004 11:25 AM
That's the title of Court TV's new show based on access to the files of the Los Angeles County Coroner's morgue, located at 1104 N. Mission Road. I haven't watched the show, but a few blog entries I've seen liked it. (Here's a post I wrote last year about a visit to the morgue "service floor," as they call it.) The Mission Road offices are also the home of Skeletons in the Closet, the gift shop with a sense of humor ("for those of us of dubious distinctive taste") that sells morgue "souvenirs" and merchandise with the Los Angeles Department of Coroner brand around the world. I wrote about the shop last year for Smithsonian.

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[youtube:3qaa4kn5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChlKQR612n4[/youtube:3qaa4kn5]

I will be back to give an explanation of why a corpse would not cause an entrapment issue. I will explain the difference when it comes to sting operations, when it involves corruption and the need to make it as real as possible when taking down those already committing crimes. 8-)

I still believe a corpse was used too. And you explained it all so well Im_convinced.

[PureLove]

I said I would be back.   As we sometimes do when reading and thinking about certain things while investigating we have relied on our own personal experiences. My experiences in real life help me to understand the sting operation vs. entrapment aspect more than just having an understanding of it by reading alone. I have real life experiences in police stings, corruption/coercion, and police being on my side and others in my known profession.

I am giving some examples of corruption/coercion, stings, and police being on my side. I am not going to go into great detail but I will give enough for people to understand what is allowed in a sting operation. I also said before that I learned how to improve my thinking skills and learned how to avoid bad situations more and more. When you want to catch a criminal you have to think like a criminal. 8-)

Examples based on real life experiences.
Sting Operations-

Early 1980’s when I was working in Anaheim California on the streets. It used to be a common practice for working girls to assume that if we asked an undercover police officer if they were a cop and they said no that would help us to determine whether we wanted to say anything more. We also used to ask the undercover to touch our breast and expose himself so we could see and touch it. Some how we thought that was good enough. :?

I found out the hard way that isn’t the case when it comes to a sting operation. Sometimes the undercover would pose as a cab driver with a customer in the back also undercover. The cab driver would pull up and I assumed the guy was legit because he was in a cab. I got in, solicited, and was drove right to the police station. When I got inside I saw alot of other girls in that sting operation round up. That one was actually funny that I fell for it.

Sometimes the undercover would say he needed time to think it over after he touched me and I him, exchanged conversation of how much and what for. The undercover would drive off and then afterwards I was watched, was allowed to get into another car and was soon arrested by a patrol car. I was taken out of the car and I had no idea who was the cop, was it the guy I talked to earlier or this guy who’s car I was pulled from? :?

Sting operations-

Early 1990’s when I was working in Waikiki Hawaii on the streets. I solicited a white undercover police officer. He had a room rented and I went to his room. It was all set up as if he was a tourist. There were souvenirs and a plane ticket on the table. Luggage in the room and the undercover acted like he had been drinking. We had discussed what the amount would be and he even payed me. He then said he wanted to take a shower.

At this time in Hawaii a lot of Japanese men were being robbed by girls when they went to take a shower. Japanese carried lots of money with them. The undercover was testing me to see if I would steal his wad of cash, I did not. I sat on the bed and waited for him to be done with his shower. He even ran the shower, came out with a towel on and wet hair. He says "Did you hear that"? I knew right then I was busted. He went to the door to act like he heard a knock, pretended to hear it again and opened the door for back up. I was arrested and 86 from the hotel. 8-)

Still early 1990’s in Waikiki another incident was an undercover I solicited and took to my room I used. He paid me and got undressed to his underwear. He layed on the bed, I reached for my condom and was about to perform the act when he grabbed my wrist. He said "You’re under arrest" and I resisted a little because how the hell do I know he isn’t lying. "I said where is your back up"? He was even shook up at that point because they had lost sight of him and it took them awhile to find my room.

When I got to the police station there were other girls arrested by the sting operation and one girl told me the cop even did the deed. He had sex with her, finished and then arrested her. Now this is the corruption aspect. It also is the part when the cop crossed the moral aspect of the sting. This is the tricky part. Lies are allowed and so is how far each officer goes for the most proof they can have but it crosses over then to a moral decision on how far they take it.

Corruption and coercion-

Early 1980’s in Chula Vista California a murder happened to a girl I knew. I had just seen her the night before and used her room. She was also from Portland where I am from. I was out working in the day when 2 undercover’s  pulled up and I solicited them. They then told me they were cops and if I didn’t cooperate with the investigation of the murder I would be charged with prostitution. I said "Where is your back up and I am not going anywhere until I see the police in a car in uniform".

I do not trust men when it comes to them saying they are the police acting as undercover. Many girls have been tricked and killed because of that. After the police in uniform showed up I said "I will go but I am not going alone". So they were going to round up more girls anyways to question them about the girl who got killed so I said "How about her"? The girl came over and we went to the station to talk.

Early 1990’s and late 1990’s Waikiki Hawaii
Corruption-

Sometimes the uniformed police would be called to situations that went bad. In one case the police showed up because the guys me and my friend were with ended up freaking out. They tried to kill us. One held my throat and broke my friend’s elbow at the same time with a karate move. He also pulled a large kitchen knife out. He called 911 to report a robbery but wasn’t giving the info fast enough or correctly. I had to think fast and I screamed the address out so the 911 operator would send help ASAP.

They were about to lead us out the door when the guy who did all the damage to my friends elbow opened the door and the HPD was there. HPD are mostly local Hawaiians and some Samoans. These guys are huge. So we went back into the room. We were being questioned. I explained to the police what happened and why these guys weren’t happy. The HPD said "Where's the money they paid you"?  I gave up my money and she gave up hers. We all were arrested. The guys were charged with terrorist threatening because of the knife. We were charged with theft. The police kept the money. We had the charges dropped because the guys didn’t want to come back for court. They were Asian and most likely involved in gang activity. I dealt with a lot of Japanese Yakuza. The HPD took my money on more than one occasion.

Police corruption and coercion-

Early 1990’s Waikiki Hawaii. The rookies who graduate were sent to the streets in packs. They were to patrol on foot and stop working girls and card I.D. them. They had cards that they wrote physical descriptions and actual name identification. Some time passed by, one night I was out working and a guy in a car pulls over. I thought he looked familiar but I couldn’t remember where I knew him from. I said "Have we been together before"? He says "Yes". So I figured that’s how I knew his face. I got in his car. He started driving and instantly grabs my left wrist and says "Where is ……"?

He was referring to my friend I walked with a lot. I instantly recognized him after he said that. He was one of the rookie cops who I.D. me. I said "I won’t say anything to anyone just let me out". He didn’t and kept hold of my wrist and drove faster. We were heading towards ala wai blvd. When you come to that light there is only one way to turn and that is left. There is one lane turning left and so when he turned he would be closest to the curb on ala wai blvd. I grabbed his steering wheel as he turned causing the car to swerve close to the curb. I then opened the door and jumped out as he pulled off. His car was close to a light pole. The door dinged the pole. I ran to the hotel close on the corner and called 911.

Police that do the right thing-
Continuing from above

The police came. I gave them my story. They talked to me for a long time. They checked the pole. They had me pick out the rookie from a photo line up. They went to his house, found the ding on his door and arrested him for drinking and driving. They believed my story because all the evidence added up. They told me not to worry they would handle it internally. He was fired.

Police that do the right thing-
Murder

Early 1990’s. One girl I knew was murdered in Waikiki. I had just spoke to the guy she ended up going with who took her life. I believe he decided not to go with me because of my height. He was way shorter than me and he had looked me up and down when we talked. I figure he was sizing me up and wondering could he over power me. I was the last person to see her go with the guy. Later on in the night I went to a corner and one of my friends says "The police are at your hotel you use and …..has been killed".

I went to the hotel and found my roommate and her roommate there. They were the ones who found her. We were interviewed. I was interviewed more because I had to describe him being that I spoke to him and saw him go with her right before she was killed. I ended up getting pregnant with my daughter in early 1993 and flew home to have her. The police finally caught the guy in late 1993 because he tried to murder another working girl only she was stronger and fought him. She made so much noise that other people in the hotel called 911. After I had just had my daughter in October the investigators called my house and wanted me to fly there and testify. I explained I couldn’t because I had a newborn. They were still able to convict him.

So those are only a small example of what I have experienced when it comes to sting operations, corruption, and coercion. The undercovers only set up the scene in which I would have already committed the act of prostitution. They did not solicit me first.  They only acted like a potential customer. They may have said hi and what’s up but I did all the talking about money and acts involved. They only agreed with me. Entrapment didn't apply because I was already committing a crime anyways so no coercion/pressure.

I understand this is a totally different situation but in the end a sting operation follows similar rules when catching crooks. That is why the corpse can be used and no entrapment. The people involved in a sting operation can use lies/deception to catch people already committing crimes. They can stage a scene with a corpse as part of the act in the deception. Entrapment would not apply because no one coerced/pressured anyone to commit crimes they already were committing. As TS said the hoax forums avoid entrapment by the clues left because the fact is that anyone could have figured out MJ wasn't dead if they really wanted to. 8-)

Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing these with us. Great info.

[loyalfan]

great thread...xxxx

[Lemonbread904]

I think that by us investigating more into this CASE, we begin to re-educate ourselves about our government and the different depts of the government and how they are ran as well as the laws in which are often enough bend to a certain extent. We all know that the entire CASE is surrounding "The Death of Michael Jackson", we the people would like to know from our government what went down on that infamous day. From the very beginning of this CASE, I know that the pieces were not falling into place.  Heard pieces of info about control substance drugs (DEA), then you have the FBI involved as well as probably the FDA and let us not forget to mention INTERPOL. So what we have heard so far are different Organizations as well as Agencies are brougt in on a Prominent Figure's Death. And this CASE just so happens to be in the state of California, where there are a  lot of cases of abusing controlled substances. I do not know if you guys are aware or not but in the last couple of years, there has been a lot of turmoil regarding the illegal drug trafficking coming from Mexico into the Uniteds States especially in the state of Arizona.  Guys, when you get the opportunity please read up on what is going on with the State-by-State fight in the trafficking of illegal presciption drugs. Guys, I got to tell you. I have been reading  the posts and threads here on this forum in regards to  sting operations and I think this is something verrrrrrry big. You can probably say that it involves National Security. There is something going on in D.C. that's very big.  Let us all look at the BIG PICTURE. We have the illegal trafficing of prescription drugs crossing the border, which of course involves money laundering, identity theft, as well as corruption in the government, but we do not know at what level. We have a state in which the budget in a big mess. And this is the state in which the people especially celebrities  are often in the spotlight for the illegal use of prescription drugs. You got people in law that are trying to pad non-existent evidence to convict an innocent man( Michael of course).  Then you had Mr. Oxman comparing Anna Nicole Smith with this case.  Again the connection is the ILLLEGAL USE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS as well as the ILLEGAL TRAFFICKING OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS