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[~Souza~]

If there was a real corpse, than assisted suicide is the only option. No other death can be planned like that.

[blue moon]

ill will start my theorie with the autopsie report.

When the autopsy report is not fake, than there have to be a body that died of some illness. But that was not the cause of death.  the propofol and the other meds were. So it has to be (assistend) suicide for psychological problems?

you have a point here.
TS said we were going to analyse what is the ambulance to UCLA but this can't be done without linking everything together.
Maybe it's a good idea to start with the AR.

I don't think it was an assisted suicide.
If there was a body - I think there was a John Doe but in this case, like you say, a real autopsy, would find the real cause of John Doe's death and even if let's say they could filled the dead body with propofol and everything else, the autopsy should have revealed also the real cause of death of John Doe.
Of course if the coroner is in, there is less trouble...

Hi GINAFELICIA,

And according to the AR they took the fingerprints. So one way or the other the coronor finds out that it is not MJ.

That was one of my questions while reading the AR. Is it possible that you pump, by doing cpr,  the propofol and the other meds not only in the vains, but also in the organs and the eyes? I also have read that when you are for a long time on propofol that the urine turns green. In the AR they said that the urine in the body and in the sac behind the chair was clear.

I still think they diddnt use a dead body, at least not for the coroner. And that the AR is fake.

[Its her]

Let me clarify my statements since it has been blown out porportion.  I have not nor wil not critize anyone for their opinion because i don't happen to agree.  If I don't agree or have a legitmate reason as to flaw as what someone might think I would express that but never attack anyone for thoughts.

FBI-  I did not say that is WHAT they do EVERYTIME/DAY.  I said IF, IF, IF they wanted to they would.  Since this hoax took years to plan most likely, guess what, the paramedics probably volunteered to be part and were conviently scheduled together that day.  S ame with the UCLA.  The coroner would understand why this had to be done and as govt official would of complied.  NOT every agency in US is corrupt, but there are time and needs and areas that they all can be.

"see through your roof"-  Thermal imaging folks, seen it personally and it's scary good.  They can see you on the john, reading a book and yes not YET see the page number you are on, but they are close.  Many on the miltary weaponary are equipped with technology, such as missles, drones, etc.

Again, I am only offering insight to things I actually know about.  Just like when we have question the body in pic being dead for some time, I told you of my experiences as an RN now and what "death" looks like and transpires.  Same with CPR, meds used , autospy lab draws etc.  Most of you don't know those things but did not blast me over that.  Again most of you have not seen the things I have during my Military days and don't know that either.  ANd I don't know "jack" about Photoshopping or  sewing for that matter but if you said that something was possible or whatever cool, learn something new everyday.  Might ask for further explanation but not blast you because I didn't agree.  Because it sounds"sci-fi" doesn't means it is.  Regardless I very disheartened by the days past events and probably won't participate anymore, so good luck to all.  May what we all hope happens , happens.

Hi AllInGoodTime,

PLEASE don't leave because someone blasted you! I really appreciate knowing the things you have spoken about. Instead of us Googling all our research, I LIKE to hear it from a live FIELD professional (ESPECIALLY one with battlescars) whom we can actually examine if we don't understand something!!

Please don't be disheartened. :(  Don't.

Things frequently  get hot in these threads. Some people are very young and some are too old to be so unpracticed in traditional social etiquette, let alone anonymous social interaction, online. :shock:

Some people are overworked, and under-rested, yet can't tear themselves away from this website!! ;)

Some people are simply Pharisees whose first instinct is to slice people up, very smugly. It's not fun when the inhospitable show their teeth. Their day is coming. Let it go, now and stay here.  :)

This WHOLE thing, drawing  :D all of us in, to dialog and interACT, and act up with one another, here, is probably mostly a "taking of temperature", of how society REALLY is, for Someone, who hasn't gotten to see warts like THIS, in his regular life, because everyone is so FAKE----too interested in impressing him with their "perfection" :P  :P  :P  :lol: .Yeah, he's seen it all over the web--but HIS fans, too?? Surprise! :lol:

If you stay, you win! It means you survived your psychological hazing, grew some of that Rhino skin MJ used to talk about. Take things personally? Consider the source and DON'T. You are welcome here.

I look at it this way, it was probably, just your turn  :roll: . Join the club.  :shock: But, NO one can discount YOUR personal experience or training. Just LAUGH. Boy, I sure do!! (ungrateful, bon bon eating Bees) :lol:  It will probably be my turn soon, again. Hide and watch.

Sorry! if that sounds scary...I endeavor to "follow after peace", but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy it when the insulted get to actually fire off an apropos round, there, before someone (really) HAS to break it up. It must be just a reflex from your training. No harm no foul. Just please check in sometimes and keep up?  :)

I'm making certain you get this. :)

[blue moon]

Hi Souza,

If there was a real corpse, than assisted suicide is the only option. No other death can be planned like that.

I know you are right about that. But I'm breaking my head about if it is really nececcary for the hoax  to use a dead body for the paramedics. I don't believe it is nececcary for the coronor.

[Im_convincedmjalive]

Hi, Im_convincedmjalive

blue moon wrote:
Richard Senneff: question: did you have a particular role to play as part of this emergency repsons team. answer: All of our jobs are predetermined. you were the passenger, that's correct. does that have a meaning who does what. I as the radio man, I have control in information gathering, whehat the most imortant part.

Richard Senneff descripes himself perfectly as the paramedic at the head of MJ in the ambulance picture; question: Where were you in the ambulance? Answer: I was at he heand of the gurney at hthey ehad, between his knees, to keep an eye on his airway, That alows me to be right they near the microphone . I was in the RA, facing th windows, facing bakwards. my back was to the drive. the other two paramedicas werw eht us. Is the picture of the ambulance fake? Than the testimony of Richard is fake.

Q: Another idea he had (Murray), was to administer magnesium.

Senneff: Yes.

Q: They don't give you all the equipment (medications) as a hospital?

Senneff: That's correct. Paramedics did not have magnesium on hand. Not part of their standard medication stocking, so all that had to be obtained from the hospital.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-3-part-i.html

During the prelim there was a question about the use of magnesium. "Q: Another idea he (MUrray) had was to administer magnesium". Senneff: "Yes".

Richard Sennef said it was not part of their normal equipment. But this letter shows that it is.

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/LAFD/bulletin/wb2003-29.pdf

Letter of appreciation from UCLA for Mark Goodwin
Dear Chief Bamattre:
Re: Kenton Smith, F/F Paramedic
Mark Goodwin, F/F Paramedic
The medical staff at UCLA MC EMC would like to recognize your
outstanding skills and knowledge in assisting a man in cardiac
arrest. The call came in on May 27th. It was a difficult situation in
that he was in a rare cardiac rhythm called Torsades de Pointes.
It looks similar to ventricular tachycardia. Lidocaine and magnesium
is the treatment of choice. He has had a positive outcome, to
date, and has you to thank. We appreciate your efforts in providing
outstanding care for our community.
Sincerely,
Karen Simonet, PCC
Atilla Uner, MD, MPH
And I'm sure it is the same Mark Goodwin.

http://millsfamilyhomepage.com/firehouse.html

//[url=http][img]http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/2668/naamloosz.jpg[/img]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-goodwin/9/998/6aa
And it is interesting that Mark Goodwin starts his own business in 2010

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... t-i-c.html
parpmedic for 27 25 with LAFD. (possible testimony of Goodwin, thougt it was interesting because it was not clear to me that he gave a testimony at the prelim)

I heard you say earlier that as a parmedic thaty ou don't have all the discretion that all the things a dr can do. that's corect I'm not a doctor. to give yourslef you work in a much differne enviroment htan a doctor thati's corect. you hae to gov oit in he ireld thats' ture. You hae to go out and i nvieomtn in situatuoins that are directly unpredictable. In fairs to do, he you don't get any of that. Doctors have a controleld invoronent and a lot of team, that have trined with. our engine company that I train with, we get some of that.
You now tran seasoned paramedics because you're so good at it/ that's corect.

Brad herron: firefighter not a paramedic, doing chestcompressions on MJ in bedroom. Maybe he is allowed to do this, but according to their bulletin you get a 3 months education, 5 days a week, before you are a licenced paramedic.

Blount observed Dr. Murray in the ambulance take out his cell phone and make a phone call. While working on the patient Blount heard that it was Michael Jackson and he recognized him as Michael Jackson. At the hospital, he was at the location, restocking his equipment. So Martin Blount was the second paramedic working on MJ in the ambulance. Did we seeBlount observed Dr. Murray in the ambulance take out his cell phone and make a phone call. While working on the patient a black paramedic working on MJ in the ambulance picture? Who drives the ambulance to the hospital. Their job is probably not so predetermined as Sennef said?
according to Senneff  (senneff himself )he was the last emt going in the ambulance with Murray

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/201 ... t-i-c.html
quote "once the patient MJ was placed in ambluance did you have reason to run back upstiars".

"yes I turned around went back upstairs because I dindt' want to leave any equipment behind". dwhe you went back upstairs  did you see doctor Murray  in the room?. "He was standing on the other side of the bed on the nightstand, and a bag, white plastic trashbag. picking things up".

Senneff secured Mj in the ambulance, than  went back upstairs for equipment, sees Murray upstairs collecting stuff. Murray and Sennef in the back of the ambulance with Blount working on MJ. Sennef said he is at the head of MJ. It is possible that Blount get out of the back of the ambulance and starts driving the ambulance, but he didnt say that.

Jeffrey Mills: according to his wife he was very busy with the resusication of MJ. But he is only mentioned by Senneff as the fire chief. His wife said that he and the ambulance(crew) were at UCLa till at least 7 o clock in the evening. Why so long? Normally they deliver the patient, fill in the forms and go back to the station waiting for another emergency. I believe there was a briefing between the paramedics, Michael/Jermaine? FBI? Hospital management.

Links to where you got this info is always appreciated. I do know that you included your questions in this text. I can see them. This provides contradictory info regarding Blount's position in the ambulance. The info regarding Mark Goodwin, F/F Paramedic is from a different day and different person. He is a FF/Paramedic though. Jeffery Mills is the Fire Captain that day and I believe he was the driver.

Why do you think that Jeff Mills was the driver that day? The strange thing is that he is only mentioned as "fire chief" by Richard Sennef. Only because of his wife's blog we know that he was there.

curls wrote:
Blount is referring to his role IN THE BEDROOM not in the ambulance. I imagine each member of any EMT team has a specific role to avoid confusion about who's going to do what when they attend an emergency situation - my understanding of Blount's statement was that he was simply explaining what his role was.

I see what your saying and according to the info above Senneff is saying the roles are predetermined. How would Blount be able to observe Murray in the ambulance if he was facing forward driving?

It seems to me that he isn't driving to the hospital

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&p=323067#p323067

This was a process of input by 2good2btrue providing the pictures of the paramedics and the roster list. Then Grace mentioned Jefferey Mills. That was my first time being aware of him. I did some research and found the info I needed to come to a conclusion. After the full potential witness list came out when the questionnaire was released; Jefferey Mills Fire Captain was confirmed as being there on 6/25/2009 and it wasn't just my opinion or theory anymore. I hope the info here will help you.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=850#p317061
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=850#p317143
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=875#p317232
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=875#p317239
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317378
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317570
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=925#p317625

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html

Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with "big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras."

At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. "It just seemed wrong," he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a "central line" to restart Jackson's heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.

Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.

Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, "scooped up" the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. "Did you ever see those bottles again," Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. "No, sir," Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.

blue moon,

I have read The Mills family blog before. I looked at Jeffery's face and head to try and determine if he was in the photo in front of the ER doors wheeling in the stretcher. I am not seeing him in there unless he was already inside the doors out of camera view or he has put a hair peice on. lol

I understand this is frustrating trying to pinpoint who was in the room, who drove, and who was in the back but by process of elimination and paying attention to certain things that each of them have said I have figured out at a minimum the 2 in back. Blount and Senneff. I know Jefferey Mills is Fire Captain based on the roster pics in the links I posted above. I know he was there because of his wife's blog but also because he is now on the potential witness list. If he didn't go there or have anything to possible contribute he would not be listed. I believe he didn't testify at the pre-lim because his input would not really make the difference at that point on whether there was enough evidence to take Murray to trial.

The 2 that were testifying at pre-lim gave the evidence needed to take Murray to trial based on them working on MJ/body at the scene and in the back of the ambulance.

The firemen left at the scene have been shown to have not drove the ambulance by the video evidence from Hollywood tv.

I reposted my earlier comment to links that will show you the process of how I came to my conclusion. The new names now coming out are something else to now have to consider. The problem with the pre-lim info is this is an interpretation of what happened in the court room according to those who were there. Just like some people's words are taken out of context and twisted by the media, I view these notes with a grain of salt. I have to filter them through my mind and see if what they say matches anything else I find as evidence. Thank you for your reply.

[paula-c]

SoldierofLOVE » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:20 pm

paula-c wrote:

Angry because I thought the personnel treated the body so indelicately by grabbing it at the head and almost tossing it like a rag doll BINGO.
So, looking at it again, they're not pulling a corpse by the head (never mind how flat the "body" looks) they are treating the "body" that way because nothing is there (or maybe it is a covered rag doll -- loaned to them by MJ from his huge doll collection. )

you are right SoldierofLOVE, and also it is possible to be seen clearly the moment in that the man of black trousers and white shirt or brown remove something of of the ambulance

Where is that Paula? I'm not sure I can see it. If I'm looking at the right guy, he gets into the back and then comes out. But, it's weird how they then get in the front of ambo to drive off and then stop and get out, go to the back of ambo again and then drive off.
Also, I said 5:18, but go to about 5:16 or 5:17 to see how they grab "MJ's head" and not just how they grab it but as if the body has absolutely no weight.

I not that happens now, cannot see the video :roll:

[Im_convincedmjalive]

Here is some information below I feel is relevant. Since this topic has some what gone way away from the original focus of how to investigate and is now based primarily on people's opinions, assumptions, emotions and not providing evidence to back up claims. This doesn't apply to everyone. No theory against the no body used has been stated with strong evidence.

I am going to address why I feel a real body was used. The fact that the coroner's office, LAPD, DEA, UCLA, etc. were involved doesn't necessarily place them in the good category or even being in the know of the hoax. Given LAPD's past history of corruption they may have been included in the sting operation to see how they would handle this investigation. In the process some other people may have also been looked at. The fact that LAPD took so long to start the investigation, let the family go in the house before considering it a homicide scene is one point to say they are still flawed.

The fact that even though Michael has influence in high places doesn't take away the possibility that some of the people involved in this investigation of his death may not have a very good opinion of him. The Santa Barbara sheriffs raided his house more than once in the process of trying to take him down. Evidence was fabricated. They took humiliating photos of him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._ ... estigation

They coerced witnesses to lie. Michael suffered police brutality. These are facts known and I take that into consideration that during this hoax the whole system of law enforcement may have been a target for testing.

Same thing could be said of the court system. The coroner's office may have fallen victim of the scrutiny also to see if they would do their job correctly.

Evidence in OJ Simpson's case by Mark Fuhrman a police officer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fuhrman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fuhrm ... rder_trial

http://karisable.com/crime.htm
http://karisable.com/crlebclapd.htm
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/11/08/l ... dal/?urls=
LAPD corruption investigation to result in few charges

November 8, 2001 Posted: 10:42 AM EST (1542 GMT)
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The criminal investigation into alleged widespread corruption in the Los Angeles Police Department is expected to conclude by December with no further prosecutions, Los Angeles District Attorney Steve Cooley said.

Since the corruption probe began nearly four years ago, eight officers have been charged with criminal misconduct. More than 70 officers in the LAPD's Rampart Division faced allegations of planting drugs and guns on suspects, fabricating arrest reports, beating suspects in custody and in some cases shooting unarmed, innocent people during gang sweeps.

"We are in the process of reviewing 45 cases, but we don't anticipate there will be additional charges filed," said Jane Robison, Cooley's spokeswoman.

Most of the cases involving alleged misconduct will be dismissed because of insufficient evidence or because the statute of limitations expired, sources said.

Revelations of alleged misconduct emerged after former officer Rafael Perez was caught stealing eight pounds of cocaine from a police evidence room in March 1998. Perez, who entered a plea agreement with state prosecutors, was granted state immunity in exchange for his cooperation in the corruption probe.

After more than 4,000 pages of sworn testimony, Perez described how officers in the anti-gang unit framed dozens of innocent people during gang raids west of downtown Los Angeles.

In one case that defined the magnitude of corruption, Perez described how he and his former partner, Nino Durden, shot Javier Francisco Ovando multiple times and conspired to cover up the shooting by planting a gun on him.

Ovando, paralyzed from the shooting, was convicted of assaulting the officers and sentenced to prison. He was released after investigators concluded that the shooting was unjustified. After serving three years in prison, Ovando sued the city of Los Angeles and settled the largest civil lawsuit in city history, $15 million.

In March, Durden entered a plea deal with state and federal prosecutors stemming from the Ovando shooting and other charges. Federal authorities have opened a separate investigation into the Rampart corruption scandal, including possible civil rights violations against Perez for his role in the Ovando shooting.

Durden is expected to serve at least seven years and eight months in state prison when he is sentenced. Perez was released from a five-year prison term in July.
The scandal has led to more than 100 criminal convictions being overturned. The city of Los Angeles also signed a consent decree with the U.S. Justice Department requiring federal oversight of the police department's management and training policies.

The city has paid over $30 million dollars in civil lawsuits related to the corruption scandal, but some city officials estimate the costs could exceed $125 million when the remaining cases are settled.

On Wednesday, Cooley outlined a series of written protocols to investigate allegations of corruption, including a Justice System Integrity Division to review cases involving probable cause against officers and a response team to investigate any officer involved shooting or in custody deaths on the scene.

"Never before in the 151-year history of the district attorney's office has that office issued written protocols which outline how, when and under what circumstances prosecutors will investigate allegations of criminal misconduct by law enforcement employees," Cooley said.
Had such a mechanism been in place earlier, Cooley said it "would have probably led to the early detection of disgraced former Officer Rafael Perez."
-- From CNN Producer Stanley Wilson

http://karisable.com/crlebcfbi.htm

Instead of making another post I am including another issue that is being blown out of proportion. Instead of focusing on the discussion of the purpose of this thread people are responding to comments that were made and resolved between me and AllInGoodTime through PM. It was asked by Souza not to keep going on about this issue on the open forum.

I respected that and made my peace with him the way I felt necessary. As far as I am concerned we are cool. I understand what he is saying in his last post as he wasn't disrespecting or crtisizing me personally but disagreed with what I had said based on the fact that he did not know my real opinions because that wasn't the topic and I felt it wasn't necessary for me to go into depth of what I know. I am very aware of what he said is true.

My opinion though is that continuing in that direction of possibly creating fear instead of focusing on the topic, I tried to deter the topic by saying what I did. The comments after the fact by others drawing attention to him saying I was naïve is what he was referring to as him not being disrespectful or critisizing me. Like he said it was blown way out of proportion. IMO adding more fuel to a fire that was extinguished is unnecessary and not productive to the investigation it only distracts people.

AllInGoodTime wrote:
Let me clarify my statements since it has been blown out porportion. I have not nor wil not critize anyone for their opinion because i don't happen to agree. If I don't agree or have a legitmate reason as to flaw as what someone might think I would express that but never attack anyone for thoughts.

[bec]

The "body" looks like it has weight to it when he hefts it. He picks it up by the knot tied in the sheet which is at the head. Looks legit to me :?  :?:

[navibl]

My Two Cents Worth.
First the goal is to have as few people involved as possible.  No body, would require a lot more people than having a body.

Second, someone on life support would be a very plyable option. The reason life support seems reasonable is because the first reports said Michael was in a coma, with no brain activity.  This would be the case with someone on life support. They usually are brain dead due to deep coma.  The patient could be kept alive as long as necessary on life support.

Third, it is  certainly possible that a family loved Michael so dearly as to offer to do this, being there was
a family member that was terminally ill.  Michael did have people that loved him to such extent.  Look at the Casios, it could have just as well been one of their family members staged to look simular to Michael that was dying.

God Bless Us All

[MJhasSpoken]

My Two Cents Worth.
First the goal is to have as few people involved as possible.  No body, would require a lot more people than having a body.

Second, someone on life support would be a very plyable option. The reason life support seems reasonable is because the first reports said Michael was in a coma, with no brain activity.  This would be the case with someone on life support. They usually are brain dead due to deep coma.  The patient could be kept alive as long as necessary on life support.

Third, it is  certainly possible that a family loved Michael so dearly as to offer to do this, being there was
a family member that was terminally ill.  Michael did have people that loved him to such extent.  Look at the Casios, it could have just as well been one of their family members staged to look simular to Michael that was dying.

God Bless Us All

That is true...I think what TS means by that is the fewer people the better...so only those who are necessary to the hoax...I think TS kinda tried to confuse us with this statement to make us think that only a few people are involved...I think MJ only tried to minimize it as best he could, if he used no body.

[MissG]

16 pages!!!!???  :shock:

*rtrl*

[fordtocarr]

My Two Cents Worth.
First the goal is to have as few people involved as possible.  No body, would require a lot more people than having a body.

Second, someone on life support would be a very plyable option. The reason life support seems reasonable is because the first reports said Michael was in a coma, with no brain activity.  This would be the case with someone on life support. They usually are brain dead due to deep coma.  The patient could be kept alive as long as necessary on life support.

Third, it is  certainly possible that a family loved Michael so dearly as to offer to do this, being there was
a family member that was terminally ill.  Michael did have people that loved him to such extent.  Look at the Casios, it could have just as well been one of their family members staged to look simular to Michael that was dying.

God Bless Us All

Thank YOU for expanding on my thoughts.  It's wonderful when someone agrees with you and can help you to develop your ideas.  Truly, I want to THANK YOU.  Great thoughts :)

[Grace]

The more deviation from "standard" operations for people who are not participating in planning, the more questionmarks, non-disclosure agreements and difficulties like leaks.

Remember the bee hives upon arrival at the hospital and at the coroner's.
Getting in and out, closing doors, opening them, closing half, opening again.
A hospital, a coroner's regular staff receiving "no body" will notice that this an "off standard" situation. Therefore: yes, a body.

If however regular personnel has been replaced by actors just for the sake of having folks there doing something looking like professionals, everybody is in the know that it's a movie and will not wonder if there's no body. Therefore: no, no body.

It really depends on the storybook "how".

However, we have seen a "body" getting thinner during the heli flight from UCLA to the coroner. So it could have been a pumped-up plastic doll that lost air during transport?

In the coroner's van, the white sheet was taken away as far as we could identify what they did in the van. I don't know if one needs to take away a sheet from a dead person before the body would be transferred to the autopsy room. I would consider this behaviour to not be appropriate.
Exceptions:
1) if it were a plastic doll - removing the sheet would be a maneuver to put things away (but establishing an order would not be truely necessary at that moment).
2) if it were a living person who was covered - removing the sheet would be a gesture of politeness.
3) if there were no body (but: they lifted some weight around).

So we still don't know what or who was transported.

I would stick to logic:
the less in the know the better.
Therefore: not 100 actors for a public movie production with a plastic doll or a dummy.

The less witnesses for an "off-standard" situation, the better. So go with a standard situation.
"On-standard" situation is that there is a body (or something that looks like a body) arriving at a hospital and a coroner's office.
So: a real body.
UCLA is home to a body donation program.

Btw. UCLA has a parking garage underneath the emergency level.
Come in, get replaced by a donated body, take the staff elevators and leave.
[attachment=1:38il3jsl]uclahealth_level1.jpg[/attachment:38il3jsl]

[attachment=0:38il3jsl]uclahealth_levelP.jpg[/attachment:38il3jsl]

[bec]

True Grace, what came out of UCLA via Helicopter need not be what went into UCLA via stretcher gif.

I think it was  Michael himself via stretcher gif. TMZ ran an article in early 2010 with a headline that said MJ was alive at UCLA. That goes along with Michael sitting up on the stretcher as seen in the gif. Some say that was debunked because of legs... I've looked a thousand times and my eyes don't see legs that aren't attached to a person accounted for in the pic that isn't Michael. 4 pics of the stretcher entering UCLA were released originally in fall of 2009... then a couple weeks later 3 more pics of the scene were released to fill in the gaps to create the gif... and those 3 frames showed Michael's face/ear/ponytail... 7 pics in total to create that gif... that's a hell of a coincidence... but I digress. (or do I)

I sure think it would be fun if the "body" was MJ himself all along, culminating in MJ jumping out of the coroner van at the end. Fun most definitely, perhaps not realistic, but the stuff of a movie for sure.

If this is a movie, in my opinion after 22 months of research and live time observations of it all, The above Scenario is what happened on screen. What happened after they said "cut" on each scene only our imagination can satisfy for now.

[everlastinglove_MJ]

Bec, it'll be the greatest movie EVER!

Bec wrote:

I sure think it would be fun if the "body" was MJ himself all along, culminating in MJ jumping out of the coroner van at the end. Fun most definitely, perhaps not realistic, but the stuff of a movie for sure.

Yes, fun and excitement for sure and I think realistic too. Why not? The "leaked" video with MJ jumping out of the coroner van was definitely part of the whole scenario. The leaked video was intentionally leaked, a little part of the puzzle for a start.

Grace wrote:

So: a real body.
UCLA is home to a body donation program.

Btw. UCLA has a parking garage underneath the emergency level.
Come in, get replaced by a donated body, take the staff elevators and leave.

My thoughts are also leaning towards the scenario that MJ switched with a donated body. Nobody in the UCLA corridors will notice the difference. I mean the body has undoubtedly a posture similar to MJ. What about the donated body, which is missing according to records. I'm sure MJ had people who were taking care of this too. Perhaps, the "body"person, was terminally ill and had a body donation agreement with MJ. May be this doesn't make sense at all, though indeed good stuff for a movie ;)