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[GINAFELICIA]

@scorpionchick  I think that story about the romanian man who died of cancer instead of MJ is not true because I recall the AR didn't mention the deceased suffered of cancer or other terminal illness :? If it was true, the authopsy should have revealed he had cancer.

[AllInGoodTime]

The reasoning behind a fake body i believe is this..........IF the coroner WAS the only person informed of the hoax,  How do you allow a minimum of 25 people see a dead MJ, believe it was him so that these people do not commit prejury in court when they testify.

Fine, everyone bought into the fake body so they can testify in a trial for murder against a doctor who obviously was in it from the beginning?

So what exactly is Murray being tried for?  And why?  Convict him for a crime that wasn't committed?

Doesn't add up.

[GINAFELICIA]

As we can't agree on anything yet, maybe we should consider the alternative that Michael really died that day and the ambulance pic was faked just to cash the money :(

[MJonmind]

TS, have we worked hard enough to deserve a couple of more puzzle pieces?

[~Souza~]

Hmmmmm....what was so vaulable MJ had that they agreed to go this extent?

Yeah, that's what I'd like to know as well. It has to be huge, no doubt about it. But what?

As funny as I thought your story was, I am still not convinced that there was 100% certain no real body. I agree that the coroner would definitely not be fooled, he is 100% in. The doctor at UCLA as well. And I agree that the rest could be silenced by the FBI, whatever the situation, but it seems safer to me if they don't KNOW for sure.If you don't know, you can's spill the beans, other than that you can say something seems fishy.

It's hard to explain, I hope someone gets what I mean.

[Uranus]

I think that people dismiss a major factor in this whole thing... The goverment and the FBI as well, are not trustworthy. They are actually puppets of those in power and they work for their sake and not for the people they are supposed to serve. MJ was a victim of police brutality and I don't think that the FBI files were meant for his protection or at least only for his protection. John Lennon had files in FBI, too... Anyway, whether he knew it about the files or not, he wouldn't be glad to cooperate with the FBI. His song "They don't care about us" is a bit of a proof about his opinion for the goverment. Someone could claim that he cooperated with people from the FBI, who propably dislike it as well, and not with the "official" FBI. Yet, this is difficult to happen in secrecy in the circles of the FBI.

[RK]

Heaven knows this type of thing is not my forte, but after reading everything posted here for the last 12 pages, vascillating between corpse/no corpse and playing each of those scenarios out in my thinking, I'm casting my lot with no body. Nada zip and zilch. FBI involvement lifts the limitations of what is possible to pull off. It does in fact change the whole playing field. In fact, they own the field. As for disecting and extracting the snippets of truth from the media stories we've been presented, our dilema lies in not being able to substantiate fact from journalistic fiction.
So in summation, ambo picture prepared ahead of 'going live on death day'
No medical emergency was transpiring on the 25th because the ambulance leisurely made it's way to UCLA, despite this hospital having an impressive track record for reviving patients who would have once been considered too long gone. No regular, on the job paramedic is going to make that decision to delay getting a human being to the necessary help needed. No matter if the patient in question was John Doe or Michael Jackson. And lets not forget that time of death at that stage had not been called. As for a dummie being used on the 25th, I don't believe trained professional EMT personel could be fooled by such no matter how life like it's appearance.  So I have come to my conclusion that the EMT people are in on the hoax and in probability are also undercover agents. But the ambulance go slow did enable the word to leak and spread like a frenzy and make for some wonderful footage. I'm sure Michael enjoyed watching it from the television in the plane he was on at the time.

[RK]

whoops. hit submit twice :oops:

[GINAFELICIA]

Ahhh...why can't I just bake some cookies or go spending my husband's money instead of reading this thread :roll:

anyway.....the alarm that day at UCLA wasn't for nothing, it must have had something to do with MJ, so, UCLA is in...through his representatives, of course. The second reason for why UCLA must be in is that the death was not announced by a doctor, but by Jermain (or is this normal?)

If UCLA is in - they didn't need a body, a dummy was enough or even MJ himself.

If the paramedics were FBI agents, a dummy in the ambulance would do the trick.The real paramedics aren't allowed to speak, but they know the truth, so they are in. It's OK they lie under oath in court. (I guess it's a living hell for them to keep the secret.)

It goes without saying that the coroner can't miss the party, so he's in too.

This looks like everybody knows Michael is alive, yet HE'S STILL DEAD BY THE WAY.

[mdc]

Hmmmmm....what was so vaulable MJ had that they agreed to go this extent?

Yeah, that's what I'd like to know as well. It has to be huge, no doubt about it. But what?

As funny as I thought your story was, I am still not convinced that there was 100% certain no real body. I agree that the coroner would definitely not be fooled, he is 100% in. The doctor at UCLA as well. And I agree that the rest could be silenced by the FBI, whatever the situation, but it seems safer to me if they don't KNOW for sure.If you don't know, you can's spill the beans, other than that you can say something seems fishy.

It's hard to explain, I hope someone gets what I mean.

Ok, I'm probably gonna be laughed at here but here is one scenario.

What if the belief that MJ hated to tour was not necessarily the whole truth. What if he didn't tour for other reasons. Let's face it MJ concerts draw thousands of people. That many people in one spot at a concert for someone people either love or hate is a potential target for terrorists and psycho's. His last tour, the History tour, ended in 1997 but he had 2 dates in 1999 for the MJ and Friends concerts. If I'm remembering right these were his last two concerts. Coincidentally enough the Korea date for these concerts was on June 25, 1999. Exactly 10 years prior to the date of his death. The other date in Munich was on June 27. That concert is where the scaffolding fell with him on it- and I still don't think that was an accident. Could have been but I'm just not so sure. Anyway, we know the FBI was aware of threats to MJ and his concerts. Perhaps for the safety of everyone involved he made a deal with the government that he wouldn't tour for a set amount of years and then when he did announce another tour if there were more threats, which I'm sure they knew there would be, they would help him with faking his death and the hoax.

So essentially he traded 10 years of potential concert earnings?

[Kristina4LOVE]

I just watched "Breach", this movies was listed on FBI website. This movie is based on the true story, FBI upstart Eric O'Neill enters into a power game with his boss, Robert Hanssen, an agent who was ultimately convicted of selling secrets to the Soviet Union.
I totally loved it :D It's very interesting, if you watch it i think it will help you to understand a little better how FBI is operating. We know that FBI cooperated with movie director + it's based on true story. I think that we can trust it for 95%.

[navibl]

This is a great theory, but I'm thinking about the end of the hoax, and I just CANNOT see Michael explaining it by, "I used a REAL dead person to hoax my own death".  I can't see how the world would view him and his hoax and return then.  If he was ever viewed as wacko this would surely blow the world up.
I know you'll all totally disagree, but a REAL dead person and Michael Jackson?  They'll say he did it for all the money he made and used a real dead man to do it.
Sorry, it may be correct, but, I think he's in for real public backlash if he did that and it comes out.  And it will have to be explained not only for us believers, but really for the non believers to believe it's really him.
(I know I'll hear it on this, but sorry....)

Well if we all believe the FBI cooperation with Michael, we shouldn't worry about the explanation part of the hoax when it ends because I do not believe that Michael will pop up and try to explain everything by himself. I do believe that it will be a formal one and the FBI is definitely going to be there and instead of Michael, they will be the ones who is going to explain the details of the hoax. And if a dead body was used, I do believe that it was FBI's idea to keep as few people as possible in on the hoax. So I do not believe it would be a problem for Michael after he comes back when they explain the details of the hoax like a dead body was used etc.

I still go with a dead body was used theory. It doesn't sound sick or impossible to me. And no need to be a magic that FBI did. It's not too hard to find someone died close to that hour and they might have used it to keep as few people as possible on the hoax. Michael didn't need to plan every each of the details, FBI was helping him out about it too. So it could be FBI's choice to use a dead body. And as I wrote before, just a couple of key people in everywhere like the coroner, the hospital etc would be enough to pull the hoax.

Thank you PureLove....I really HATE the word hoax because people always get a picture of a joke or deception.  This is a life saving mission for Michael and the world or the people that will listen.  I know that what Michael is going to bring to us when we hear him again will be so horrific that no one in their right mind will care about it being appropriate to use a dead body, how and who at that point.  We will be so thankfull to God and Michael and that he cared enough all these years to allow God to give him this plan.We will only care about what we can do to save our lives and the lives of those we love.  I have already seen VERY UGLY things going on in this country, and what the Gov is hiding from us that is life threatening and the means they will go to in covering up what they don't want known. That is why we are here now, to learn what and how he did this, so that we will be beyond that when he speaks to us again.  My biggest concern right now, it that from the view points that I read here, there will be so many that will NOT BELIEVE it is Michael when he returns, they will take up close video shots and try to dissect it with various software and spend so much time trying to disprove it is Michael that they will NEVER hear his message.  This will be very sad.

So my personal opinion is that while I don't know who or what was in the ambulance just yet, I know what was NOT.  And unless Brian Oxman had total leave of his sense on 6/25 and was completely not thinking or speaking clearly and just totally fumbling all over the place, which I doubt, I know that Michael was NOT IN the ambulance on that day. Because Brian said and I quote, " I got a call uhh just a little bit BEFORE NOON that Michael had been taken FROM the hospital by Randy's assistant who gave me that call"  I have included the link below with the vid.  If you look at him while he is talking , there are no signs of grief and is almost as if he is working very hard to keep from smiling, however the rest of the statement goes on as if all else is as most believe of Michael being gone.  Here again we have a play on words, done on purpose to show how deeply deception can be interwoven with just a tad of the truth to twist things totally around and make us believe what they want us to.  Just like Jermaine  Airport and Hospital.   You don't have that many people with that many slipups on words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Izi-tS5Kk

For the non believing it is a perfect scapegoat to say it was a slip and he got the time and wording confused.  As for the use of a dead body being wrong of Michael and totally out of the scope.  That is child's play compared to what goes on in this world.  I am certain if we believe Michael has a skilled team working with him, they are to ones who devised the details of a body, fake, alive, or ill.  It is not for us to judge if it is appropriate or not.  Why Michael would have been at the hospital earlier that morning would be sheer speculation on anyone's part and unnecessary.  He had his reasons for whatever he did, some of which we may never know.

If we are to investigate this in reality, we have to climb out of our little politically correct powder puff boxed in way of thinking and look at the reality of what takes place in this world daily. PURE UGLY is what is in front of us, deception from satan. This is what Michael is trying to get us to see.

[paula-c]

that in these pictures Katherine and the other woman have a sticker of visitors coming to the hospital, and the car has another sticker for the disabled, who gave them :?:

[AllInGoodTime]

I am apologize for my 3 hour rant this morning, I have been up 28 hours now...lol..I think I come up with a better way to explain this and possibly give those losing faith some hope as well.

The very first page of this thread and the first thing at least that gets ur attention is the FBI hat.  Subliminal Clue?  Dont know but fits.

From what I have been reading about the fake body and peoples opinions concerning is this.  The main purpose of the fake was to lessen the actually number of "outsiders" that need to be in on the hoax while giving the opprtuinity to for the people who were/are involved credibility that the body was MJ's and for truthful testimony to be given during the trial.  Fine.

Now.......In order for MJ alone to pull this hoax off, a fake body would be a must.  Alone, this body is really the only way he could attempt to fool everyone involved he was really dead.  Tho flawed, perhaps the paramedics and even the hospital and staff  might have beLIEved it really was him.  He really died.  And they saw it with there own eyes.  At a minimum 25 people would have interacted in some way with the fake body on the 25th.  That to me is 25 ways/reasons the hoax could be discovered before it even really started.  Amazingly, noone figured out it was a fake and it did make it to the coroner.  And that is where it ends.  The coroner would have figured out it was fake and MJ really does not have the power or connections to presuade him to help with his hoax no matter the reason.  So with that in mind,  we know MJ has planned for years in great detail to hoax his death.  Years of thought down the drain in the first hours of the first day.  He could not do this alone and not without help.

Enter FBI>>>Whatever MJ has gotten himself into that would warrant the FBI's help and participation remains to be seen.  As to the great depth of the hoax and the amount of coordination needed from the FBI, as well as the FBI's willingness to accept and agree to the terms/way MJ wanted it, whatever it is must be gigantic.  Thus the reason and the plan is put into action.

The FBI could of "killed" MJ off without a body.  But that is not a good show nor add to the realism or confirm that MJ died.  So the FBI provided a fake body.  3 paramedics, coroner and assistance along with a doctor and 4 staff, were "asked" to take part as a matter of "National Security".  This brings our outside people informed to the hoax to 10.  A controlled group, very possibly choosen and selected for this after careful screening.  So for the show, the wheel the fake body into UCLA, straight to a predetermined area under heavy secruity and privacy.  Each persons role defined, actions, statements planned as instructed to do so.  MJ dies.  The announcement made and to continue to embed that MJ did die, is again wheeled out the copter and off to the coroner.  A real-time drama with actual proof MJ had died broadcast to the public to absorb and accept.  MJ is dead, free and removed.  And mission is accomplished.

However at the same time MJ dies, a new and interesting element is introduced with many implications to the future.  But first,

Now, we have established that the ambo pic was staged and shopped.  This is our first real evidence and first domino.  Why evidence?  It shows us that this was staged and planned.  Now knowing MJ could not do this alone and needed help and recieved it from the FBI.  This to now validates it is fake.  Shows us it was planned and if planned needed help, if needed help the FBI did so.  And the FBI does not fail.  IF they want something to happen it does, the way the want it to.  Executed to a T, again only proving the pic is fake as it was part of a bigger picture.   Thus proof MJ lives.  Which brings us to the plan.  Seems like alot of extra fluff made-for-tv was involved in the hoax.  They were much easier ways to get same result.  MJ could of died of overdose/heart attack at home.  NO TV special, no press, taken to hospital pronounced and perhaps a "real" death photo released to prove he had died.  But that is not what happened.   A set of surreal events transpired before the worlds eyes.  Events which left no doubt that MJ had died.  BUT>>>>

That new element?  AS they loaded MJ into the copter, it was now we are introduced to a man who ran out the back door.  Conrad Murray.  First , let's analyze his role.  Honestly, much like the other fluff in the plan, Murray's part in this is really not needed.  The events the way they played out on the 25th could of happened the same way with or without him. It added some drama.  But having a doctor present throughout the events did not change anything or any way things were planned.  Again, not necessary tho.  Or was it....

Now the hoax was success. MJ dead.  World falls for it.  IF MJ wanted peace/freedom or whatever the reason, he now had it.  Except for the door that was left open for things to come.  Murray.  Basically, he was not needed for this to succeed but yet involved anyway.  And left to be tried for a crime he did not commit.  Most likely convicted.  And yet, this truly makes no sense as why he must take the fall.  But it does....The very momment he is introduced into this, he began to play what I believe was his main purpose.  Now this hoax is not just about MJ but a new focal point in Murray.  He is the distraction, decoy and element to the plan that enables new events to take place.  AS the shock wore off and MJ faded, our man Murray was now front and center.  Followed, photographed,disected his role is now exactly as it was planned.  Just about the time MJ fades from our memories, suddenly Mr. Murray becomes relevant again.  A new development or story surfaces to keep us interested.  But is that all?

If MJ ever returns remains to be seen.  If he does regardless some backlash will occur.  2 years ago he was a laughingstock and mocked, 2 months from now?  OMG Bamsday is here!  MJ reappears from his death, however the backlash is not what one might expect.  He is a hero?  huh?  Our FBI boys inform us the great courage and dedication MJ has shown by sacrificing himself in such a way in order to help our nation do whatever it the heck he got himself into in the first place.  A national alibi.  MJ our hero!

Back to ol' Murray.  The martar, the fallguy, the guy who soon will have the world at center stage.  MJ likes center stage.  Quite comfy there actually.(or not)  Murray has endured and completed what is needed for the "last curtain call".  The trial.  His main purpose.  Which is why is doesn't matter if witnesses tell the truth.  Why stories dont match, and calls seem fake or bodies or whatever else.  I believe the trial won't happen.  Wasn't ever suppose to.  MJ "got away" for good if that was the plan.  But it wasn't, and the door is open waiting.........

So to close MJ must be in some big time stink.  Alot went into this, and can only imagine what may have warranted this kind involvement.  Even if MJ has feelings/issues over the past with FBI etc.  Obviously he had no choice, or he is dead....not.  I need sleep.

[AnaMarcia]

So to close MJ must be in some big time stink.  Alot went into this, and can only imagine what may have warranted this kind involvement.  Even if MJ has feelings/issues over the past with FBI etc.  Obviously he had no choice, or he is dead....not.  I need sleep.

I like your posts and agree with them. For me the only way it can be a hoax is with FBI's participation at all levels. They have the power to get everything and all the necessary evidence. They also can cause people to shut up sorry to become outlaws.
So, things get much easier for Michael to do and for we understand.

TS ... do you not come??

AllInGoodTime, by the way, is it your bedtime?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: