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bec

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 09:47:09 PM
Well isn't this great. All these days and pages later and we are all arguing and no closer to agreeing on anything.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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2good2btrue

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Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 09:53:28 PM
This is a picture of the three firemen left behind after the ambulance left the home..two wearing gloves, and the third isnt...

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And that's after two Black SUV sped off from the property behind the ambulance...then followed by the paparazzi...

Therefore Ben Evensted has told another lie.  He was NOT the car behind the ambulance.  They were both the security guards cars..
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Andrea

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 09:57:49 PM
Dummy - yes.  Dead body - no.  Is what I think.

Anybody in the Carolwood home that day would be in Michael's circle of trust.  He had to escape unnoticed whether there was a dummy or dead body anyways so the dummy is just easier on so many levels.  I still think there were two dummies, one in the ambulance photo and the other a frail old guy.

The ambulance photo proves to me that the paramedics were in on it.  If it was a frail old guy they transported they would've seen the photo and said, "Hey, wait a minute!!" because the guy in that photo is clearly not what they described.  They also refer to the body as "it".

Faking one's death is not an easy task and you do need certain people to be in on it initially.  Not everyone in the house had to be necessarily - I'm sure Michael's room was off-limits or whoever didn't know what was going on would've been ushered away and out of sight.  The people who transport the dummy know, the doctor at UCLA knows as does the coroner.  That's not too many people in my opinion.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:07:12 PM
I apologize if this was mentioned. To be honest, I'm being lazy and not reading the back posts. I don't think a dead body was used for this. I don't think it is necessary. I'll try to explain this the best way I can.

I keep thinking about Ben's "slip up" of "the other day..." and I think this was deliberate to let us know that this situation happened on another day. I personally believe, like others, that the famous ambulance photo and the photos of the body going in the hospital were done prior to June 25th. This may have been part of the secretive Dome Project where they shot specific photos in a movie lot at an undisclosed location. I think a dummy or Michael or a double was used for the photos. I am not sure. I would have to look closer at these photos to figure if the person is even a real person to determine the dummy theory. Anyway, I think the photos were done prior to June 25th for a few reasons. 1) They can set up the right lighting, angle, positioning of EMTs and the possible leaf pattern (if you believe it was there and not photoshopped in). 2) In the photo of the body being pushed in the hospital, there is really no crowd around and there are a few photos. Plus, there is no video of this scene, only photos. (Unless I missed something. Please let me know if I did.) With this in mind, it would be easier to stage the photos and even use a dummy that is mechanically-controlled to make it look like MJ was sitting up on the stretcher. It may sound far-fetch but it is possible.

I think they recreated the scenario on June 25th and this time taped it and had the same people that were involved with the staged photo shoot. Again, I think a dummy was used on this day. No need to have a real body if they are involved with the photoshoot.

That's my theory. I'm sure there are tons of holes. Please feel free to poke at them. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to really investigate as of lately but I'm still reading and lurking around. I think there is a reason why TS keeps emphasizing on this other day and I'm guessing this could be the reason.
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Awareness + Awakening = Higher Consciousness

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: ~Souza~
Scorpionchik has a point with the transport of the body in the plane since it could be delayed for whatever reason. Not likely, but possible. There is still the option that the assisted suicide took place at Carolwood Drive though, but so far i have had no reply to my question if it's possible to die in another state where it's not (yet) legal.

Analysis of California’s Assisted Suicide Proposal
“COMPASSIONATE CHOICES ACT” (AB 374)

Update (6/7/07): AB 374 failed to get through the Assembly. The bill is “shelved,” meaning it cannot be brought up again until January 2008.

On 2/15/07, Assemblywoman Patty Berg, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) and Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Nunez introduced the latest assisted suicide bill, the 2007 “California Compassionate Choices Act” (AB 374). The bill, patterned after Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, contains the same provisions as AB 651 that failed in 2006.

On 3/27/07, the bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee in a 7-3 vote and, on 5/31/07, it passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee 10-5. Assisted-suicide advocates scheduled it for a full Assembly vote on 6/6/07, later delaying the vote for a day when they realized they did not have sufficient support. The necessary support to pass the measure did not materialize and the bill was shelved on 6/7/07.
[/u]

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I guess I am gonna repeat DEAD BODY OF CANCER PATIENT WHO LIVED AT MJ'S HOUSE WAS TRANSPORTED TO UCLA, because....

California approves nurse-assisted suicide
Schwarzenegger signs bill authorizing dehydration, starvation of patients

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 02, 2008
12:30 am Eastern

© 2011 WorldNetDaily


California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
 

SACRAMENTO – California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has officially approved an assisted suicide measure allowing nurses to sedate, dehydrate and starve depressed or confused individuals they consider to be "terminally ill."

The bill, sponsored by Assemblywoman Patty Berg, a Democrat, passed the California Assembly Aug. 28, and the state Senate Aug. 20. It was signed by the governor yesterday.

The legislation, called the "Terminal Patients' Right to Know End of Life Options Act," or AB 2747, passed by a 42 to 34 vote. An Aug. 20 Senate vote of 21 to 17 ushered the measure to the governor's desk for signing.

Randy Thomasson, chief of the Campaign for Children and Families, said the legislation is dangerous and should have been vetoed by Gov. Schwarzenegger.

"AB 2747 pushes suicide through the back door at the hands of non-physicians taking advantage of depressed patients," he said in a statement. "AB 2747 cheapens the value of human life by endorsing suicide as an option."

The measure allows physician assistants and nurses to decide whether a person is "terminally ill" and deprive them of basic life-sustaining necessities such as food and water.

"Depressed patients who succumb to this pressure will be drugged unconscious and die from dehydration, usually within five to 10 days," Thomasson said. "Nothing in the bill prohibits this horror."

Thomasson said Berg "deceptively changed" the bill to appear that "voluntarily stopping of eating and drinking" and "palliative sedation" no longer were on a list of "symptom management" options.


And your right Souza, dead body means less people in hoax, which more reasonable.
Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:31:25 PM by scorpionchik
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:29:40 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Scorpionchik has a point with the transport of the body in the plane since it could be delayed for whatever reason. Not likely, but possible. There is still the option that the assisted suicide took place at Carolwood Drive though, but so far i have had no reply to my question if it's possible to die in another state where it's not (yet) legal.

Analysis of California’s Assisted Suicide Proposal
“COMPASSIONATE CHOICES ACT” (AB 374)

Update (6/7/07): AB 374 failed to get through the Assembly. The bill is “shelved,” meaning it cannot be brought up again until January 2008.

On 2/15/07, Assemblywoman Patty Berg, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) and Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Nunez introduced the latest assisted suicide bill, the 2007 “California Compassionate Choices Act” (AB 374). The bill, patterned after Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, contains the same provisions as AB 651 that failed in 2006.

On 3/27/07, the bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee in a 7-3 vote and, on 5/31/07, it passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee 10-5. Assisted-suicide advocates scheduled it for a full Assembly vote on 6/6/07, later delaying the vote for a day when they realized they did not have sufficient support. The necessary support to pass the measure did not materialize and the bill was shelved on 6/7/07.
[/u]

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Yes, that was never my point. I KNOW it's illegal in California, but I want to know if a patient from Washington for exaple, can choose WHERE he wants to self-administer the drugs, OUTside the state where it is legal, but being a Washington resident. No doctor has to be there on the day itself, so that means he can administer it wherever he wants. The doctor did everything according the law, and he doesn't have to be at his patient's side, so he can't help it if he flies to Cali. And the patient himself will be dead and can't be charged either. So my guess is that he could very well have commited assisted suicide at Carolwood Drive.

@bec, I have seen your arguments and I replied to them as well, if I haven't missed any. So far I'm not yet convinced, so the real body theory is not yet debunked for me.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:32:50 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Scorpionchik has a point with the transport of the body in the plane since it could be delayed for whatever reason. Not likely, but possible. There is still the option that the assisted suicide took place at Carolwood Drive though, but so far i have had no reply to my question if it's possible to die in another state where it's not (yet) legal.

Analysis of California’s Assisted Suicide Proposal
“COMPASSIONATE CHOICES ACT” (AB 374)

Update (6/7/07): AB 374 failed to get through the Assembly. The bill is “shelved,” meaning it cannot be brought up again until January 2008.

On 2/15/07, Assemblywoman Patty Berg, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) and Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Nunez introduced the latest assisted suicide bill, the 2007 “California Compassionate Choices Act” (AB 374). The bill, patterned after Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, contains the same provisions as AB 651 that failed in 2006.

On 3/27/07, the bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee in a 7-3 vote and, on 5/31/07, it passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee 10-5. Assisted-suicide advocates scheduled it for a full Assembly vote on 6/6/07, later delaying the vote for a day when they realized they did not have sufficient support. The necessary support to pass the measure did not materialize and the bill was shelved on 6/7/07.
[/u]

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Yes, that was never my point. I KNOW it's illegal in California, but I want to know if a patient from Washington for exaple, can choose WHERE he wants to self-administer the drugs, OUTside the state where it is legal, but being a Washington resident. No doctor has to be there on the day itself, so that means he can administer it wherever he wants. The doctor did everything according the law, and he doesn't have to be at his patient's side, so he can't help it if he flies to Cali. And the patient himself will be dead and can't be charged either. So my guess is that he could very well have commited assisted suicide at Carolwood Drive.

@bec, I have seen your arguments and I replied to them as well, if I haven't missed any. So far I'm not yet convinced, so the real body theory is not yet debunked for me.


It is legal in CA. See  my edited post above & link  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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bec

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:44:04 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Scorpionchik has a point with the transport of the body in the plane since it could be delayed for whatever reason. Not likely, but possible. There is still the option that the assisted suicide took place at Carolwood Drive though, but so far i have had no reply to my question if it's possible to die in another state where it's not (yet) legal.

Analysis of California’s Assisted Suicide Proposal
“COMPASSIONATE CHOICES ACT” (AB 374)

Update (6/7/07): AB 374 failed to get through the Assembly. The bill is “shelved,” meaning it cannot be brought up again until January 2008.

On 2/15/07, Assemblywoman Patty Berg, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) and Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Nunez introduced the latest assisted suicide bill, the 2007 “California Compassionate Choices Act” (AB 374). The bill, patterned after Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, contains the same provisions as AB 651 that failed in 2006.

On 3/27/07, the bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee in a 7-3 vote and, on 5/31/07, it passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee 10-5. Assisted-suicide advocates scheduled it for a full Assembly vote on 6/6/07, later delaying the vote for a day when they realized they did not have sufficient support. The necessary support to pass the measure did not materialize and the bill was shelved on 6/7/07.
[/u]

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Yes, that was never my point. I KNOW it's illegal in California, but I want to know if a patient from Washington for exaple, can choose WHERE he wants to self-administer the drugs, OUTside the state where it is legal, but being a Washington resident. No doctor has to be there on the day itself, so that means he can administer it wherever he wants. The doctor did everything according the law, and he doesn't have to be at his patient's side, so he can't help it if he flies to Cali. And the patient himself will be dead and can't be charged either. So my guess is that he could very well have commited assisted suicide at Carolwood Drive.

@bec, I have seen your arguments and I replied to them as well, if I haven't missed any. So far I'm not yet convinced, so the real body theory is not yet debunked for me.


It is legal in CA. See  my edited post above & link  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

That's a different situation. That's removing a feeding tube. Death is slow and timing is unpredictable. Can take hours, can take days.

I reread my blog from 2009 and early 2010. I'm sticking with my research and my gut in this one. There was no dead body used in the course of this hoax. If I'm wrong then I've been wrong about a lot of things along the way, but the record shows that's not been the case. If I'm wrong then all laughs on me. I don't think I'm wrong.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 10:48:34 PM
Oh, I misread! Here is more info on HOW: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Doesn't look like you can really plan it like that. I think self-administering lethal drugs is not really a good option, but this is even worse. :?
And they condemn us for our euthanasia policy? Okay... :?
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Andrea

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:11:45 PM
About the dead body involving the least people being "in on it".

TS said:
Quote
Please do not jump to any quick conclusions on this, and be very careful to remember the following principles of investigation: #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better;

The fewer - the better.  Not the fewest - the best.  TS could've said that if there really was a dead body because that probably would have the least amount of people in on it.  But TS said fewer and better.  That could mean the hoax operated on a less-than-ideal scenario for the body, which I would think would be the use of a dummy.  Maybe I'm twisting TS's words but TS tends to word things very carefully.

Quote
On the other hand, though, so far nobody has offered any strong support for ALL of the paramedics being in on it; and if any of them were not in on it, there would almost certainly need to be a real corpse. Please don’t dismiss this possibility too quickly; it would explain the warm room, the paramedics not recognizing MJ, he looked like a frail old man, etc—and it would also decrease the amount of people that would need to be in on it (both at the house, and at the hospital). If someone can bring at least two strong points against the corpse theory, and nobody can debunk either of the two: fine. And if not, then we need to be open to considering all possibilities—that is what good investigation is all about.

I am under the impression that TS wants the dead body theory to be de-bunked as that is what the last paragraph focused on.  Otherwise he's almost telling us it was a dead body and it's not TS's style to give it away right off the bat like that.  We haven't even figured out the leaf-pattern thing yet.
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2good2btrue

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Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:12:55 PM
Curator Curtis Huber, left, and curator assistant Eric Valencia lift a wax figure of Michael Jackson to put in the front display at the Wax Museum at Fisherman’s Wharf in San Francisco on Thursday 25th June 2009.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Its her

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:13:28 PM
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "Its her"
No real dead body. It is sick, wrong and illegal. The FBI isn't above the law. There is a word for people who act as if they are above the law. We call them criminals.
Where is decency?  NOTHING makes involving a real human body, as a Law Enforcement or Hollywood prop, acceptable.  :x
I now think that there was NOTHING in the ambulance, no dummy, especially; everything could shopped in that photo, except for the two EMTs/FBI agents acting as EMTs. If you'll notice, the covered "shape" which is moved to the helicopter is way too slight of frame and flat, under the sheet. A balled up sheet or two is explainable, a mannequin or dummy of some kind is way too complicated to make disappear, particularly in such tight quarters, on TV with the world watching. :roll:
Likewise with MJ or a substitute. TOO much of a risk in such tight maneuvering room. It is not a parlor trick, there is way too much at risk for this to go wrong and be exposed in the first HOUR of the hoax :!:  :!:  :!:  I posted all this before, anyway, as well. ANY life sized dummy would have been impossible to get rid of, with all eyes watching that little bit of area around the ambulance. That's all, my two cents. :|


If you are so certain in your theory that there was no body at all, in ambulance and in helicopter. Do you have certain theory who's body was observed & autopsy out there?

@ Scorpionchik:

No clue whose actual body, of if there even was any real autopsy, but the Autopsy Report we were shown has so many holes in it, probably it is portions of pages found in a dumpster, from multiple strangers' autopsies, which were supposed to be shredded. Here is MY "autopsy report" (report on the bogus autopsy), if you are interested:

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Once I realized this AR was bogus, I realized it had nothing to do with the body of LIVING MJ. And...it doesn't HAVE to be any body, actually ;) . It is fiction, I'm pretty certain, from the twisted  8-) mind of Someone who pulled our legs all these years about not ;)  liking horror movies, "they're too scary!".  :lol:  :lol:

Who woulda thunk :idea: sweet, gentle, cuddly Michael Jackson would write

the most
spine-tingling,
nail-biting,
tear-jerking,
interactive

THRILLER of ALL Time
:!:  :!:

The "Autopsy Report" was just a device to drive some portion of the Hoax, and  :D make it scarier, earlier in 2010, which MJ knew wouldn't SERIOUSLY fool his fans, because of all the little things we "know" about him, which were not even mentioned in the details of this!  

I don't think it is in any way, a real autopsy of any one, really, so I am done with it. If it is discovered to be pertinent in any other way, I am open to revisit, but I do know the AR subject is NOT Michael Jackson.  :!:  :!:  :!:


:D  :D  :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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~Souza~

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "scorpionchik"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Scorpionchik has a point with the transport of the body in the plane since it could be delayed for whatever reason. Not likely, but possible. There is still the option that the assisted suicide took place at Carolwood Drive though, but so far i have had no reply to my question if it's possible to die in another state where it's not (yet) legal.

Analysis of California’s Assisted Suicide Proposal
“COMPASSIONATE CHOICES ACT” (AB 374)

Update (6/7/07): AB 374 failed to get through the Assembly. The bill is “shelved,” meaning it cannot be brought up again until January 2008.

On 2/15/07, Assemblywoman Patty Berg, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) and Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Nunez introduced the latest assisted suicide bill, the 2007 “California Compassionate Choices Act” (AB 374). The bill, patterned after Oregon’s assisted-suicide law, contains the same provisions as AB 651 that failed in 2006.

On 3/27/07, the bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee in a 7-3 vote and, on 5/31/07, it passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee 10-5. Assisted-suicide advocates scheduled it for a full Assembly vote on 6/6/07, later delaying the vote for a day when they realized they did not have sufficient support. The necessary support to pass the measure did not materialize and the bill was shelved on 6/7/07.
[/u]

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Yes, that was never my point. I KNOW it's illegal in California, but I want to know if a patient from Washington for exaple, can choose WHERE he wants to self-administer the drugs, OUTside the state where it is legal, but being a Washington resident. No doctor has to be there on the day itself, so that means he can administer it wherever he wants. The doctor did everything according the law, and he doesn't have to be at his patient's side, so he can't help it if he flies to Cali. And the patient himself will be dead and can't be charged either. So my guess is that he could very well have commited assisted suicide at Carolwood Drive.

@bec, I have seen your arguments and I replied to them as well, if I haven't missed any. So far I'm not yet convinced, so the real body theory is not yet debunked for me.


It is legal in CA. See  my edited post above & link  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

That's a different situation. That's removing a feeding tube. Death is slow and timing is unpredictable. Can take hours, can take days.

I reread my blog from 2009 and early 2010. I'm sticking with my research and my gut in this one. There was no dead body used in the course of this hoax. If I'm wrong then I've been wrong about a lot of things along the way, but the record shows that's not been the case. If I'm wrong then all laughs on me. I don't think I'm wrong.

bec, no one is SAYING you are wrong. I simply don't know, nor does anyone here. If we do not know for sure, we need to look at every option and dissect every little detail. Ever seen Twelve Angry Men?

I started with the corpse, made a theory and would like it seen debunked before I throw it in the trash can and move on with option two. But I really haven't seen strong arguments against it, at least not yet.

But why so complicated? All options are complicated. They could have chosen another time of death, like 1:11 pm or something. Fits into the numerology and in that case they wouldn't even have to bother about dummies or corpses or whatever. Simply make a fake 911 call at 12:21 pm, EMT's (in the know) arrive at the house. Pretend to work on him and Murray calls it at 1:11 pm. No one in the house has to know either, they weren't allowed upstairs so they could have the coroner pick up a bodybag filled with stuffed animals. In that case you skip the hospital, the ambulance ride and the flight to the morgue. They chose not to do that, which tells me that the ambulance ride, UCLA and helicopter flight (aka ambulance picture, time of death 2:26 and moving body under sheet) were important. Why?

TS? Can I buy a vowel? :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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bec

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:36:25 PM
You already know why, Souza. Go with your first instinct, it's right ------->because it's a movie.

We've put in the hours of research, the all-nighters. We know the answers we just don't have the confidence to stand behind them.

I have looked at over analyzations for too long. We have been talking about this for literally, years. I think the evidence for no body is solid. You disagree. Who decides who's right?

Ps. I've never seen 12 Angry Men. Am I acting like 12 angry men?  :lol:
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Are you entertained?

Re: TIAI April 11
April 14, 2011, 11:38:36 PM
Bec.....I agree....no body.  The possibilities of something not working according to plans, I think, is too great.  And the possible backlash (after the bam) from the public, including fans, could be significant.  I don't think Micheal would risk that.

With some strategic staging, diversions and confusion, he could pull it off and PROVE to the lame investigators, the media and the public that he could create the illusion of "his death" without any death! That's challenging, creative and a lot safer.  Thriller II anyone?????
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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