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Quote from: "fordtocarr"Why couldn't it be a double that had become terminal? If someone is ill a very long time, they loose weight. If it were cancer, their hair would fall out from therapies. If they had been on life support, they'd not only have lost hair, but tremendous weight by being on iv fluids. They'd have meds and that would make them look frail and old. Their body and face would be sunken and the skin thinned. Then they would be able to look like an old man. When taken off life support, they'd look as though dead a long time because they'd look dark! I've seen this happen twice to relatives.It wouldn't BE an assisted death!! Life support would've just been terminated as happens everyday to terminal patients. They are already brain dead, organs stopped functioning. They'd been kept alive..so could be taken off any day..like June 25th. That happened to my friend who had cancer, and was brain dead and progressed to where he was only alive artificially. They had to decide when to just turn it off.If someone were living there, being doctored by murray, had just 6 months to live..then organs began to shut down..say terminal cancer (and we know how Michael helped cancer victims) they ..family or someone with medical power of attorney, has to just shut off life support one day. That's what has to happen to those people one day. They are really dead. Eaten up from the disease.
Why couldn't it be a double that had become terminal? If someone is ill a very long time, they loose weight. If it were cancer, their hair would fall out from therapies. If they had been on life support, they'd not only have lost hair, but tremendous weight by being on iv fluids. They'd have meds and that would make them look frail and old. Their body and face would be sunken and the skin thinned. Then they would be able to look like an old man. When taken off life support, they'd look as though dead a long time because they'd look dark! I've seen this happen twice to relatives.It wouldn't BE an assisted death!! Life support would've just been terminated as happens everyday to terminal patients. They are already brain dead, organs stopped functioning. They'd been kept alive..so could be taken off any day..like June 25th. That happened to my friend who had cancer, and was brain dead and progressed to where he was only alive artificially. They had to decide when to just turn it off.
Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"The "no one in the ambulance" theory was too risky, there were too many people there, I don't think Michael could have fooled them all.The dummy theory means that they were all in, EMTs, UCLA, coroners - quite a long chaine, don't you think?I still think there was a body or a double/twin who died that day.A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.
Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"The "no one in the ambulance" theory was too risky, there were too many people there, I don't think Michael could have fooled them all.The dummy theory means that they were all in, EMTs, UCLA, coroners - quite a long chaine, don't you think?I still think there was a body or a double/twin who died that day.A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"The "no one in the ambulance" theory was too risky, there were too many people there, I don't think Michael could have fooled them all.The dummy theory means that they were all in, EMTs, UCLA, coroners - quite a long chaine, don't you think?I still think there was a body or a double/twin who died that day.A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.
The "no one in the ambulance" theory was too risky, there were too many people there, I don't think Michael could have fooled them all.The dummy theory means that they were all in, EMTs, UCLA, coroners - quite a long chaine, don't you think?I still think there was a body or a double/twin who died that day.
Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"The "no one in the ambulance" theory was too risky, there were too many people there, I don't think Michael could have fooled them all.The dummy theory means that they were all in, EMTs, UCLA, coroners - quite a long chaine, don't you think?I still think there was a body or a double/twin who died that day.A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.You think Michael or his rep. would contact doctors of those 3 states and set up agreement to inform him wich patient got agreed to die so they would realize hoax? Besides there is a certain legal requirement they have to meet that also could make hoax date, numerology and timing wise, random.Legal Requirements: The Oregon Death with Dignity Act, and the Washington statute modeled after it, set certain requirements and safeguards before a person may commit suicide with a doctor's assistance. The patient must be of sound mind when they request a prescription for a lethal dose of medication. Two doctors must confirm a diagnosis of terminal illness with no more than six months to live. Two witnesses, one non-doctor unrelated to the patient, must confirm the patient's request, and the patient must make a second request after 15 days.
Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.You think Michael or his rep. would contact doctors of those 3 states and set up agreement to inform him wich patient got agreed to die so they would realize hoax? Besides there is a certain legal requirement they have to meet that also could make hoax date, numerology and timing wise, random.[/color]Legal Requirements: The Oregon Death with Dignity Act, and the Washington statute modeled after it, set certain requirements and safeguards before a person may commit suicide with a doctor's assistance. The patient must be of sound mind when they request a prescription for a lethal dose of medication. Two doctors must confirm a diagnosis of terminal illness with no more than six months to live. Two witnesses, one non-doctor unrelated to the patient, must confirm the patient's request, and the patient must make a second request after 15 days.
Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.
Quote from: "scorpionchik"[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.
[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.
Putting MJ/dummy/corpse/nothing to one side for a moment, I'd like to get clear who ('alive') was actually in the ambulance. Exactly how many EMTs were there? And how many of them had actually been attending to 'MJ' in the bedroom?Richard Senneff and Martin Blount are the only 2 who gave evidence in the prelim.QuoteSouza wrote:ambulance driver (does anyone know who that was? I only heard 2 names and 3 were present)Blount said he was the driver. In one account, he also said he was the 5th of 5 firefighters to enter the home. (It's in my notes, I need to check where I read it.) He also said that he saw Murray on the phone in the ambulance. (Is this possible if he was driving?)A paramedic Mark Goodwin is mentioned in Blount's testimony:"DDA Q: Did you count the number of sites that paramedic Goodwin tried to access to get a line in?Blount: No."@ Im_convinced, I'm not convinced that 3 paramedics are confirmed at all! Can I ask you where Jeffrey Mills came from, apart from the witness list?Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"QuoteOfficial General Prelim Discussion threadYou are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginThen you have the witness list (see thread link above) of who testified at the pre-lim in regards to Dr. Cooper and the paramedics that showed up that day and transported the body to the hospital. Now after the jury questionnaire has been released, (see link below) it shows the full potential witness list. All 3 of the paramedics are confirmed. These are the ones who showed up that day. Richard Senneff FF/PM, Martin Blount FF/PM and Jeffrey Mills Fire Captain. You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginOne last thing, for now, just so I'm clear, can someone tell me are firefighters also paramedics in the US?
Souza wrote:ambulance driver (does anyone know who that was? I only heard 2 names and 3 were present)
QuoteOfficial General Prelim Discussion threadYou are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginThen you have the witness list (see thread link above) of who testified at the pre-lim in regards to Dr. Cooper and the paramedics that showed up that day and transported the body to the hospital. Now after the jury questionnaire has been released, (see link below) it shows the full potential witness list. All 3 of the paramedics are confirmed. These are the ones who showed up that day. Richard Senneff FF/PM, Martin Blount FF/PM and Jeffrey Mills Fire Captain. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Official General Prelim Discussion threadYou are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginThen you have the witness list (see thread link above) of who testified at the pre-lim in regards to Dr. Cooper and the paramedics that showed up that day and transported the body to the hospital. Now after the jury questionnaire has been released, (see link below) it shows the full potential witness list. All 3 of the paramedics are confirmed. These are the ones who showed up that day. Richard Senneff FF/PM, Martin Blount FF/PM and Jeffrey Mills Fire Captain. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Uploaded by LAFD027 on Jun 25, 2009 Discover the value of every LAFD Rescue Ambulance. Every Fire Station (currently) has at least one ambulance. In most single engine stations, the ambulance is for "Basic Life Support" or BLS responses. It is staffed by EMT/Firefighters. Single engine stations often utilize an "assessment" Engine, meaning a Paramedic is on the engine. Larger stations have "Advanced Life Support" or ALS ambulances, staffed by two paramedics. When you see an LAFD ambulance on the road, you can tell which is which by their numbers. An ALS ambulance from FS9 will have RA9 on the side. A BLS ambulance from FS9 will have 809 on the side. If the ambulance is from a station in the higher numbers, such as fire station 104, the BLS ambulance will be numbered RA904.
Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.You think Michael or his rep. would contact doctors of those 3 states and set up agreement to inform him wich patient got agreed to die so they would realize hoax? Besides there is a certain legal requirement they have to meet that also could make hoax date, numerology and timing wise, random.[/color]Legal Requirements: The Oregon Death with Dignity Act, and the Washington statute modeled after it, set certain requirements and safeguards before a person may commit suicide with a doctor's assistance. The patient must be of sound mind when they request a prescription for a lethal dose of medication. Two doctors must confirm a diagnosis of terminal illness with no more than six months to live. Two witnesses, one non-doctor unrelated to the patient, must confirm the patient's request, and the patient must make a second request after 15 days.Where is the problem? The patient can choose his own death date.[/color]
Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"Quote from: "~Souza~"Quote from: "scorpionchik"[quote="~Souza~"A double would actually look like MJ, and according to the EMT's they transported a 'sick old frail man'.If it is not dummy, double would look like MJ, then another option to fit "old frail man" is romanian cancer patient I put some time ago article about, since cancer can made person look old, and that man was living at MJ house for some time I guess.No, because that means the date of death was a coincidence, since assisted suicide isn't legal in California.You think Michael or his rep. would contact doctors of those 3 states and set up agreement to inform him wich patient got agreed to die so they would realize hoax? Besides there is a certain legal requirement they have to meet that also could make hoax date, numerology and timing wise, random.[/color]Legal Requirements: The Oregon Death with Dignity Act, and the Washington statute modeled after it, set certain requirements and safeguards before a person may commit suicide with a doctor's assistance. The patient must be of sound mind when they request a prescription for a lethal dose of medication. Two doctors must confirm a diagnosis of terminal illness with no more than six months to live. Two witnesses, one non-doctor unrelated to the patient, must confirm the patient's request, and the patient must make a second request after 15 days.Where is the problem? The patient can choose his own death date.[/color]
This update 6.5 (6 + 5 = 11) was posted at 11:30 PM (CA time), on 11-30 (November 30). Also, a few days ago TIAI redirected to a clock with the hands at 11:30 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=16037}. What is the significance of this? As usual, the redirect had more than one meaning.The Thriller album was released on 11-30 {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_(album)}; and Eliza’s case was previously scheduled for 11-30, although it is now rescheduled for 12-14 {http://chancerydata.shelbycountytn.gov/pls/chweb/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=CH-09-1696}.Speaking of Thriller, 11:30 (PM) is “close to midnight ... the midnight hour is close at hand”. So 11:30 also represents near the end (end of the day, or end of the hoax, or end of the world, etc).And finally, we are now about half way between 2009 and 2012 (“four more years”); and 11:30 is half way between 11:00 and 12:00. The clock is ticking, and there is no time for unimportant or unkind controversy. Yes, some things are important and must be discussed—even if we don’t agree; but even then, disagreements should be done respectfully. It’s all for LOVE!
No real dead body. It is sick, wrong and illegal. The FBI isn't above the law. There is a word for people who act as if they are above the law. We call them criminals.Where is decency? NOTHING makes involving a real human body, as a Law Enforcement or Hollywood prop, acceptable. :x I now think that there was NOTHING in the ambulance, no dummy, especially; everything could shopped in that photo, except for the two EMTs/FBI agents acting as EMTs. If you'll notice, the covered "shape" which is moved to the helicopter is way too slight of frame and flat, under the sheet. A balled up sheet or two is explainable, a mannequin or dummy of some kind is way too complicated to make disappear, particularly in such tight quarters, on TV with the world watching. :roll: Likewise with MJ or a substitute. TOO much of a risk in such tight maneuvering room. It is not a parlor trick, there is way too much at risk for this to go wrong and be exposed in the first HOUR of the hoax :!: :!: :!: I posted all this before, anyway, as well. ANY life sized dummy would have been impossible to get rid of, with all eyes watching that little bit of area around the ambulance. That's all, my two cents. :|
This may or may not be a pretty big clue.Anyone familiar with TS's updates will remember this:QuoteThis update 6.5 (6 + 5 = 11) was posted at 11:30 PM (CA time), on 11-30 (November 30). Also, a few days ago TIAI redirected to a clock with the hands at 11:30 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=16037}. What is the significance of this? As usual, the redirect had more than one meaning.The Thriller album was released on 11-30 {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_(album)}; and Eliza’s case was previously scheduled for 11-30, although it is now rescheduled for 12-14 {http://chancerydata.shelbycountytn.gov/pls/chweb/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=CH-09-1696}.Speaking of Thriller, 11:30 (PM) is “close to midnight ... the midnight hour is close at hand”. So 11:30 also represents near the end (end of the day, or end of the hoax, or end of the world, etc).And finally, we are now about half way between 2009 and 2012 (“four more years”); and 11:30 is half way between 11:00 and 12:00. The clock is ticking, and there is no time for unimportant or unkind controversy. Yes, some things are important and must be discussed—even if we don’t agree; but even then, disagreements should be done respectfully. It’s all for LOVE!Then today on TMZ, look at this article title and time.Shakira -- NOBODY Stole My Jewelry!4/14/2011 11:30 AM PDT by TMZ Staff You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginPosted at 11:30...NOBODY in CAPS....No Body??
Besides the plane-issue, I have not seen one solid argument against the real corpse theory, other than opinions based on emotions.