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I know this has been asked again and again but where exactly are we up to in this thread.So the rectangle? We don't knowIf the paramedics are involved? We don't knowProving the leaf pattern is PS or not PS? We don't know
Quote from: "Gema"Quote from: "paula-c"!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that´s why the "leaf" patternNow we're finally getting somewhere! On to the next hoax project I hope.
Quote from: "paula-c"!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that´s why the "leaf" pattern
!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :lol:
RIP Liz. I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.Take for example the face that people have seen in the leaf pattern. It is great to have and use good imagination in investigation; we should imagine any and all possibilities, on everything that we are examining. It is okay to imagine a face, or letters, OR LEAVES!!! But don’t stop at that point! Once you have a theory, then you need to try and DEBUNK YOUR OWN THEORY! And let others try to debunk it.And if you come up with a theory that has at least two strong points in support of it, and nobody can debunk those strong points; and if nobody can come up with any other strong theories: then you PROBABLY have found the truth. It is easy to see what we want to see; but it’s not always easy to see the truth. MJ wants us to learn how to see the truth: “the truth will prevail”!
Take for example the shadows on the red car. This is one strong point, nobody has debunked, on why the ambulance photo was staged. But this is not the only strong point, in support of the photo being staged. Furthermore, even with the shadow, I added a second and closer picture of the shadow versus sunshine on the front left wheel area {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}. So there are two strong evidences of the shadow aspect alone; and the shadow aspect alone is only one of more than two strong points about the ambulance photo being fake (and staged). This is how you build strong investigation.Nobody has yet even made a serious attempt to debunk the shadow differences on the red car. Souza said maybe a local whirlwind; but of course she was just joking. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely; furthermore, even if there was a whirlwind, we could probably find evidences of it in the video and/or the series of still pictures (with a whirlwind, even a split second would make a big difference in the shadows on the car—and you could probably hear it in the audio track).Also, being early afternoon, the sun would be high in the sky; so something moving on the ground would not be in the right position to block the sunlight on the red car. It would have to be something in the sky; but clouds move too slowly to change the shadows that much in a few seconds. Maybe an airplane flew by just at the right second to block the sun! Again, extremely unlikely; and even if that’s what happened, you could probably hear it (and/or see evidences of the shadow moving rapidly, while the pap was running with the camera).I’m not trying to go back and discuss the red car and shadows again in great detail; but I am trying to show an example of solid investigation. Some have mentioned over-analyzing (the leaf pattern, etc). Many people are not used to heavy investigation; and if they don’t want to do it here, that is their choice. But the leaf pattern certainly has not been over analyzed, at least not in the sense of going way beyond establishing a solid theory—because NO solid theory has been established yet! It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}. However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)? Did anyone try to debunk the face idea? Did anyone try to debunk the theory that the pattern is Photoshopped? And were there at least two strong reasons why it is Photoshopped?Could it be a reflection of natural leaves during the staged photo shoot? That would answer why they don’t move with the background image (red car); but it would probably indicate an outdoor staging, which would be an unnecessary high risk. Also, in that case the pattern should overlap the paramedics arm (not go behind it).Did anyone try to debunk the idea that it is an intentional leaf image? Did anyone notice that in my very first post about it, I referred to is as “a leaf-like pattern” {You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login}? Has anyone noticed that the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic? This would be expected if it was a reflection of natural leaves; but the reflection theory has some problems.Could it be nothing more than an optical illusion, resulting from the combination of multiple lights and shadows—all bouncing off of the somewhat random, yet mostly circular ambulance interior pattern? If you take two overlapping circles, the area that overlaps will be shaped roughly like a leaf. Has anyone noticed that the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedics arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall?I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc; and hopefully we can move on to a new level soon. But I really felt that most people still were not getting the basic concept of critical analysis. I hope that it comes through clearer now, and that we will not forget to challenge our own theories—this is the only way that we can expect the truth to prevail!
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same. Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self. It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway.
Quote from: "starchild"Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self. It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. Thank you for your post, starchild! I personally find it very possible that TS is deliberately creating a distraction. When I wrote above "Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?" I actually meant that that "someone" is TS.Maybe we really should start a new thread about this topic, as Souza suggested. As I see, this is important to many of us.
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.I like your points but I still don't understand you said the leaf like pattern was the only reflection but so was the red car and the outside...even though that might be photoshopped too.
I apologize for the long post, but this has been a long time coming and I’ve only scratched the surface of what I think about this whole hoax so I’m just going to try to be patient and let TS lead (I can’t wait to get into the FBI parts though because I have a very plausible theory for that as well.) Please, anyone that reads my post, feel free to question me on any of it, whether you agree or not...I’m not saying I’m right, but I love a challenge and I believe in turn that we will all gain a valuable learning experience.Much love to all! Xoxo
Hello mjsmyheart! WELCOME!!! I really enjoyed reading your post, so here are some questions i wanted to ask you. Same as you i believe that the "leaf-like pattern" is not a reflection, but the question is WHY would they photoshop it into the picture? Why would they want us to see Michael's face in this patter?Also i would love to hear your theory about FBI, because this thread was supposed to be about Paramedics (real, not real, involved in the hoax, not involved). L.O.V.E to all!
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same. Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.Then you can have 2 accounts and be on the cool list!! :lol: