TIAI February 26

[Yambo3003]

Uh is it just me or is the ambulance attendant to the left doing a real funky thing with his hand.  Maybe I'm just seeing wrong.
I thought I was seeing his pot belly facing towards the right of the picture which would have him facing toward the other attendent.  Yet his elbow is faced the same way.  :shock:  Look at the position of his hand on MJ and where his elbow is.  Either this guy is double jointed or what I think is his belly is a hump in his back or his butt?  :lol:

Just wondering if the leaf pattern was there just to draw our attention to the backwards arm?

*edit* now that I look at it I'm not sure... maybe he's sitting and hunched over which would make sense because the badge appears to be on the left arm on both of them... so never mind.  

I thought about that but I did try that position myself and it's probable. My assumption is that he's trying to reach for something else while compressing the chest. Of course...to make the scene more authentic.  

[Its her]

...Where did this pic come from originally? This is a smoke screen pic. It is used to distract people from what may have really occured. This pic is an illusion to make you think that the yellow shirt guy took the pic.

I posted the original pic that Entertainment Tonight put online and it is a clear pic. That's the starting point. The other four pics posted above have been altered and effects were added to each pic in different degrees of alteration. Maybe those pics are not the original and they were taken at wider shots to be altered later. Another smoke screen. I tried to be the non-believer and post evidence that would be in favor of this being a real event. It seems I was on that boat alone. I read that most have still continued to try to find evidence to support the pic being fake and not the other way around.

My honest evaluation is that the original pic was done with the wax dummy and EMT's and it was staged (including faking a real intubation tube on the dummy) and it was taken before 6/25/2009. Then the scene is set to make it look as though the pic was taken on the day of death. Everything is an illusion.

I was just about to post something similar, but checked to see if anyone had said it first. You kinda sorta did.  8-) Yes the event of MJ's death and ambulance ride was staged, but I was going to suggest that MJ ALWAYS rehearses his short films, so why would he not rehearse this segment of his Greatest Show on Earth Movie? I believe there were two stagings. The event and the photograph itself.

We have all been going with the idea that someone hurriedly tried to capture the money shot from a vehicle in motion.

The BEST time to get the shot(s) MJ wanted, would be during the frame by frame, stop motion direction of the DRY RUN. Doing it this way, gives the DIRECTOR time 8-)  to TAKE the time to get everything in the shot he wants:

Every possible version of every possible purposeful reflection, can all be taken in the same light and this visionary would be able to know then, whether or not the only way to get something in THAT shot is to edit it in, later. Of course, "later" STILL being PRIOR to the event, in order to have it ready. 8-)

We saw one picture and a video ONLY all these months, until TS showed us four stills.  

I bet there were 100s    of pictures taken, to be able to work with, just of the scene, not to mention miscellaneous leaf silhouettes to be added later!

Someone  spent too much time on this photo (creating it). This is the reason WE need to to take the time to investigate it! It is not just a captured moment in time. There is some subtext there...

One other thing: even with tinted glass, all the ambulances I have seen have interior lighting, the likes of a carnival concession stand. It is stark bright white light; autopsy table light; "the better to see you with" kind of light ( to quote a famous wolf, stalking a famous little girl in a red riding hood...).

No flash needed; through basic tinted glass, it would probably have been about as light as the picture we saw first. I always thought the photo was fake for this reason only---WAY too badly lighted to be a real "emergency in progress" vehicle. :roll:  

[GINAFELICIA]

I am reading everything and the more I read the less I know.
Someone I think had a point saying that we can't get such a wide image of the inside of the ambulance from so near. I don't know for sure, I think it depends of the type of camera.
For me the reflection of the red car is some sort of proof that there was an original picture taken.

If there was a dummy - that implies the paramedics are in the hoax and this can't be imo.

[Grace]

it makes me wonder if maybe the lawyers in Murray's trial could do with doing similar: prosecution - prove he's actually DEAD before accusing Murray of anything, defence - prove he's NOT!

They are not going to discuss whether or not MJ is dead because the reason why they are meeting in court is the prerequisite assumption is that he is dead (X).

It's like a sentence thrown out into the air:
"This (X) happened and you, accused, have a share why it happened or have even been causing this with 100% responsibility."
They will be discussing if the contribution of the individual was sufficient to cause the consequence (X).

It is like
"The vase was found broken in the living room and somebody blamed YOU, accused, to have done this since you have been present in the room all the time."
It is not questioning whether the vase was broken at all or who else could have done it or whether the accuser was lying.
These questions would have had to be answered before calling the case to court.
As (X) is an accepted steady precondition factor, court discussions will not dance around (X) but around how (X) did happen.

The surprise would be that
- the picture of the broken vase was giving somebody else's vase,
- the picture was faked thus false evidence,
- the police sur scène was not properly investigating and documenting,
- the individual in the living room was not alone,
- it was the cat, an earthquake or the wind who broke the vase
- (X) did not happen, the vase was not broken (the vase might be reappearing in court to participate in a family photo with the stuffed toys and all friends - I hope for a HUGE party, Michael...).

In Michael's case I would assume the vase had an impersonator, collapsed either due to a supersoaker or cream cake fight, Bubbles was coming back, the Barnum circus was walking through his living room and one of the elephants happened to wag its tail or that the vase was in fact a white rabbit illusion in a smokescreen.  :lol:

I hope we will have a lot of fun once court time starts.
Hopefully we will all be able to watch the show live (or at least recorded) in the web.
And dont't forget to read through the trial documents beforehand to understand all the pricks and twists.  

[Grace]

We saw one picture and a video ONLY all these months, until TS showed us four stills.

Nope, not true. All the variants were available in the web (since they were published by different tabloids) and even discussed in detail in several forums. Check out the archives. It's all there in depth and width.  

We are just returning to the basic elements.

[bleu eyes]

Why is Michael on red stretcher, i think it's not common.
When a patient laying in a ambulance the're always on that white bed (underneath the red stretcher in the still photo).

I agree with some of you i think it was a setting picture, because the interior of the ambulance doesn;t match the ambulance interior of the video( interior of the 71 ambulance).
for excample: the paramedics seat is on the wrong side if you compare, and is'nt common for a paramedic to sit on the left side of the patient?
It's not possible to mirror the interior when you don't get the whole image( one side picture).

i think  the patient is always  laying in the ambulance with his head towards the driver the paramdics who is on front of the head of the patient is sitting with his back towards the driver.

[GINAFELICIA]

Yes, a bit more of the leaf pattern goes behind the paramedic’s arm in Ambulance2; but this is a very slight difference, compared to how far the red car has moved.  And if the leaf pattern is inside the ambulance (not a reflection): then this slight difference can easily occur from a slight movement in the paramedic’s arm, and/or a slightly different camera position.  But if the leaf pattern were part of the background image, then there is no explanation for why it does not move to the right just as much as the red car moves to the right.

I think it's quite clear the leaf pattern is not a reflection, but I'm not sure it is not part of the background because yes indeed it doesn't move that much to the right like the red car but this can be because the red car is outside the ambulance, in the front of it, but the leaf pattern is inside, in the back, in a closer plan.....it's really difficult to figure out how much an object is moving to the left or to the right in a moving car according to the distance  between that object and the point where the picture is taken from, I mean the camera.

I think the closer an object is to the camera the more it moves to the right than the objects that are far away :? I'm not sure of it, but in this case the leaf pattern, if it is part of the background, it's closer to the camera than the red car, so it should change its position more than the red car. Instead, it is changing its position less than the red car.

So maybe yes, the leaf pattern is not part of the backgound, but this means it was inserted in the original picture  :?  ?
Because if it is not a reflection and not in the background, what else can it be but photoshoped into the original pic?

[bec]

If there was a dummy - that implies the paramedics are in the hoax and this can't be imo.

To challenge your statement, then you must accept that the 911 call was real. Real Emts come from real 911 calls.

[GINAFELICIA]

So you're saying the 911 wasn't real and those men in the pic are actors? That means the ambulance is also fake? Or the ambulance is real and it was rented by MJ team for his fake death movie?

Sorry but I really don't know what to think.

But at least the red car was there and was real right?

[Adi]

All I can say is ...I've been reading this entire thread the past few days and feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I don't use Photoshop so I have no idea what is possible with that software. I am not a professional photographer so have no idea what is possible with tinted windows, angles, flashes, lenses, depth of field etc etc...all I know is that I see weird f'n shite in this ambo photo....faces, letters, images of god knows what......always have always will.....

Having had my above rant :lol: ........perhaps it was photographed way way earlier than 25/06/2009 ...many times over to get it correct ....then images layered/photoshopped (or whatever) into it to "create" what the media was fed and what was blared all over the world. Maybe the pics of what is shown on 25/06/2009 outside Carolwood with the red shirt guy/yellow shirt guy/red car etc etc was all just a set up to make it look like this "dying" pic of Mj was taken on that day.

Why do I feel like I'm back in 2009...about August sometime?

[GINAFELICIA]

Looking at the Ambulance1 again......if the photo was taken from so close to the window, how could it capture such a clear reflection of the red car, the wall, the ground, the trees  :?
Because I think the closer  the camera gets to the window the less reflection of the outside it catches.

It's like when you look at an window ....when you are not very close you see reflection but when you come near it you see inside and less to none reflections   :?

[ignisaeternus]

All I can say is ...I've been reading this entire thread the past few days and feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I don't use Photoshop so I have no idea what is possible with that software. I am not a professional photographer so have no idea what is possible with tinted windows, angles, flashes, lenses, depth of field etc etc...all I know is that I see weird f'n shite in this ambo photo....faces, letters, images of god knows what......always have always will.....

Having had my above rant :lol: ........perhaps it was photographed way way earlier than 25/06/2009 ...many times over to get it correct ....then images layered/photoshopped (or whatever) into it to "create" what the media was fed and what was blared all over the world. Maybe the pics of what is shown on 25/06/2009 outside Carolwood with the red shirt guy/yellow shirt guy/red car etc etc was all just a set up to make it look like this "dying" pic of Mj was taken on that day.

Why do I feel like I'm back in 2009...about August sometime?

Well, good- at least I am not alone! Someone call me when you need a mental health specialist (that sounded wrong- I meant for THIS case...).
I guess I am so used to ask the "so what" question at some point with my clients, so it keeps popping into my head here as well.  
I don’t know many non-believers who at this point think the ambulance picture was “real.”  They just don’t connect it to the hoax.  They connect it to a murder conspiracy.  So, proving the picture is fake and how it is fake might shed some light on supporting the hoax.  Just saying, parts were photoshopped in, will not do that.  This better be some solid evidence, as otherwise the argument “well- maybe they thought they could use crazy believers like you to muddy the water and let the murderers get away”- argument will fly again.
To me, what stands out in this tread is not so much any of the leaves (I feel we are all focusing on the photoshop while something else important is going on we are being distracted from- I just can’t put my finger on it)- but the red car.  
IDK- on this one, I think I will just sit back and let the experts (you guys who flip, turn, analyze, enlarge, etc) do your thing- I really admire your for having the technical know-how and the time.  
Thanks to TS for popping in to clarify things (or are you, muddying the water, you prankster?- HA! I guess that part is for us to figure out, hum?)

[2good2btrue]

Could it be a relection from MJ's black jacket with the sparlkling sequence ? Was he in the ambulance wearing the famous "Black announcement jacket" which because of the sun, it made a silouette in the ambulance ?

[curls]

Interesting posts - what I'd like to know is when exactly was the original photo first released? From what I can find it was on 25th, but I'd like to find out what time. How long between the supposed taking of the photo to it being shown to the world? Can anyone help me with this?

[suspicious mind]

this thing reminds me of the good old bad old days when the film didn't advance fast enough or whatever and you had a bunch of garbage double exposures or whatever they were called. :|