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jono

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 12:26:44 AM
Something that stood out to me:

"For example, if Jackson were in a 70 degree room, his body temp would drop to 70. The body temperature typically drops a degree to a degree and a half per hour, but it's dependent on the ambient temperature.

Here's the problem -- when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time."

It's always the 7's and the 9's isn't it??  :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein

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bec

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 12:32:10 AM
90s would be resurrection temperature you know.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Grace

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 12:47:44 AM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Quote from: "bec"
Ps. The only option left that makes sense is that they cannot determine the time of death of Michael Jackson because Michael Jackson is not dead.

 Michael: Okay everybody, that's a wrap! *Smiling*  :lol:

 :lol:
It's not important but just for the records:
The "infamous" ambulance picture carried EXIF data:
<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2009-06-25T12:08:08-07:00
If time in the camera was set correctly (which is usually the case amongst professional photographers), the picture was taken 12:08, 18 minutes before the paramedics even arrived at 12:26.

So yes, in the end that would make a lot of sense to have 45 minutes of revival attempts at the house and finally a respiration bag with a dead person that appears to be unrecognizable and 15 years younger than his driver's license states (the latter was used to identify the person at the hospital). Oh btw, the dead person was revived at UCLA and regained a pulse. UCLA is said to be famous for bringing back the dead.  ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 01:58:42 AM
i remember this story, as if it was yesterday :lol:
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Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 03:13:23 AM
Quote from: "bec"
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Quote
Forensic science provides a number of solutions to solving the mystery question of when a person died. Generally, the longer it has been since the death, the less accurate the estimation given by forensic pathologists.
<snip>
Police arriving at the scene of crime should be capable of estimating how long a person has been dead for, by judging from the body temperature and stiffness of the corpse. However, a more accurate evaluation of the time since death must be made by a forensic pathologist in the forensic laboratory. The pathologists/coroners record the temperature of the body, the temperature at the scene of crime, the weight of the victim and all other appropriate variables, which are then applied to a formula designed to predict the time since death. The core body temperature drops at an estimated rate of 0.8K each hour from the time of death, but is ever-changing dependant on the surrounding temperature, humidity levels, air movement and fat levels in the body. Thus, the less time that has surpassed since the death, the less variables which will affect the prediction.
Copyright 2004-2005 Thinkquest Team 00206

Body temperature is only one factor and OF COURSE room temp is taken into account as one of many variables. Nonsense being spun and reported!


The important thing in forensic science is

To tell the time of death they take the temperature of the body by inserting the thermometer instrument into the liver. They actually poke through the body to the liver. The liver temp gives them the accurate temp of the body and then they calculate according to the ambience temp and decide on the time of death.

Obviously they could not poke the body's liver here as they were still trying to resuscitate him.
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GINAFELICIA

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Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 04:24:15 AM
So there was a dead body there, but it was not Michael.......I try hard to believe this
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Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 06:52:58 AM
I agree with Bec. An able-minded pathologist would be able to pinpoint a time of death despite the circumstances of room temperature etc. This is obviously another dramatization tactic.  Isn't it incredible how something so real parallels the insane?  This has to be an illusion as it truly does defy all logic. As I see it, the writer is working on the climax to the story.  And it has been quite effective, too; considering the emotional investment expended once hooked.  I suspect that every opportunity is being taken to generate more public awareness and interest in the case; hence the odd and very  lengthy pre-trial hearing.  if you allow it to be so, this can be likened to a nightmare. Are you scared yet????  I suggest we take a breath and wait for the "thriller"!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Michael Supporter
Be the change you wish to see in the world.
~Mahatma Gandhi

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 07:01:26 AM
Quote from: "simalves"
The important thing in forensic science is

To tell the time of death they take the temperature of the body by inserting the thermometer instrument into the liver. They actually poke through the body to the liver. The liver temp gives them the accurate temp of the body and then they calculate according to the ambience temp and decide on the time of death.

Obviously they could not poke the body's liver here as they were still trying to resuscitate him.

Absolutel... However- are there not other ways to establish Time of Death during the autopsy process?  I don't remember if we ever got a "real time of death" other than the debated 2:26pm at the Hospital.

@Grace:
Quote
It's not important but just for the records:
The "infamous" ambulance picture carried EXIF data:
<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2009-06-25T12:08:08-07:00
If time in the camera was set correctly (which is usually the case amongst professional photographers), the picture was taken 12:08, 18 minutes before the paramedics even arrived at 12:26.

That is an amazing detail! You are correct, the time could be off, BUT it is unlikey as we are talking professional photographer. Have you seen the pic with the EXID stamp? Or have you heard or read about it- if so, can you share the source?

Thank you, TS for the redirect! "Scripted" seems to be the right term alright!
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"Hope is both the earliest and the most indispensable virtue inherent in the state of being alive. If life is to be sustained hope must remain, even where confidence is wounded, trust impaired."
Erik H. Erikson

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 07:07:16 AM
They talked about the trial on the Joy Behar show last night (the first time she's ever brought up the MJ trial that I know of.) So I think this is going mainstream. Mark Geragos was on the panel and he said that he thought it would go to trial and also that the defense has some surprises. Mark Geragos was one of the original lawyers on the molestation trial (I believe) so I don't know if he knows anything. But they spent about 15 minutes on it. Joy Behar is not an MJ fan to say the least concerning the molestation trial but she was very anti-Murray last night...almost sympathatic to MJ. Maybe the tide is turning.

I'm not in a hurry for this to end. MJ has to make sure everything is carried out perfectly for all of this to work...besides, it's great entertainment.
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loyalfan

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 07:10:26 AM
to me .TS is doing his best to reassure us here......without actually saying the words we want to hear.............................
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Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: "bec"
Ps. The only option left that makes sense is that they cannot determine the time of death of Michael Jackson because Michael Jackson is not dead.


lol I agree with you" bec " on that. :D  :D
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Elsa

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 09:27:17 AM
I think the significance of the body temperature not being recorded is that it points to the credibility of the Coroner Investigator and the authenticity of the Coroner's Case Report/Autopsy.  This is from a post I wrote last year.  

Quote
...she [the Coroner Investigator, Elissa Fleak] seems to have forgotten a really important part of her job.  She recorded the temperature of the hospital room but not the decedent’s body. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

A Coroner Investigator Trainee in LA learns to record body temperature  
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probably because body temperature gives the best indication of time of death. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

Mmmmm seems kind of important.  There must be a standard checklist for the investigator to work through.  How likely is it that an investigator forgot to record and report body temperature?  :?:

Also - Elissa Fleak has the words lies and fake in her name.  Another coincidence?
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gwynned

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: "bec"
BS! BS BS BS

Complete Bull Shit.

That's is totally completely and utterly not true.

ADDING HEAT SPEEDS UP DECOMPOSITION. Decomposition begins the moment cellular death occurs. This is not difficult or unusual, people have an annoying habit of dying in less then perfectly climate controlled environments all the time.

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU CANNOT MEDICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY DETERMINE A TIME OF DEATH IN THE DEEP SOUTH IN AUGUST? COME ON!

Ok sorry I'll chill.

But it really baffles me, like mouth open, jaw slack baffles me that the gen pub doesn't see through this facade. I wonder if Michael is equally surprised, or did he know this is how they would react? Did he expect this level of numb, mindless, acceptance of what the TV people say?

This is scary. People really are under complete control by the flashing picture box.
Your comments are spot on.  It really is unbelievable isn't it.  I have a friend who is a nurse and is 'confused' by Murray's behavior, but still is not questioning the official story.  And of course she thinks I"M crazy because I don't believe he's dead.
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Grace

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 10:13:28 AM
I have to repost this from 2009 (all credits go to an unknown author):

Quote
It must be the moon!

Michael Joseph Jackson was found dead in his bedroom on 25th June 2009 at his rented Holmby Hills Mansion, he was also found dead in his doctors bedroom as well as alive with a slight pulse in a guest bedroom.
He had died 3 hours before the ambulance was called from an overdose of Demerol administered to himself by himself, while listening to the Gipsy Kings, he also died 1 hour before the ambulance was called by a lethal injection of Propofol administered by his Cardiologist who thought it would be a great idea to administer CPR on a bed for an hour. After this Michael was rushed to hospital in an ambulance doing 5 miles an hour where his body finally died after being dead.
Let’s rewind a tad. It is now at this point that I learn that Mr Jackson was in fact a junkie hopped up on enough meds to kill a whorde of wild wilderbeeste. He of course passed his medical with flying colours and went on to practice for his upcoming shows that he both dreaded and looked forward to. His dancing was energetic and not dissimilar to that of a 20 year old with back problems, a hernia and an aging disease similar to Benjamin Button.
He was in high spirits and excited about the upcoming tour. He was also angry about it and cried himself to sleep.
Since his death, Michael has been cremated, he has also been buried at forest lawn and neverland, put on ice, dug up again and is now awaiting to be buried on his birthday as a sort of loving present from his father.

Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

*

paula-c

Re: TIAI 01/07
January 07, 2011, 10:20:46 AM
I don't know that demons case in that house on 25 June 2009, but if what they say the paramedicos is the truth, not to recognize Michael by that seemed an old man, or a pasiente hospice or a terminally , definitely not talking about the same person, Michael Jackson.
I am asking who died that day,..or before.
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