Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[mjkate]

It's also not normal for some wash up old manager to blurt out to the little children that their father had died when the hospital hadn't even notified next of kin. What I do get either, is if Harvey publicly said that he believes that Michael died much earlier, then can't he be brought into court to explain what has led him to say this? And if Klein got a phone call much earlier, and he stated publicly that he did, then shouldn't he been in court explaining too. There are whole lot of people who know what really happened and nooooo one is talking except in little riddles. If this is not a hoax and this is real life...I don't think there are words....

[Dancer]

The ping tower excuse is not working with me and I know for a fact that this is incorrect.  My husband works in the mental health field and because his job carries a risk of his patients being violent, his mobile phone is monitored by his office and they are able to pinpoint exactly where he is, down to the address not the tower which is carrying the signal.  If this sytem works where I live which is in the countryside then I'm sure it works the same in a city.

I always found this "it was the closest tower" explanation strange because as far as I know it is indeed possible to exactly find out from where a call came. So thank you for confirming this!
You all are right, there are so many odd things and contradictions...
So I still believe this is a hoax.

[encino_girl]

Its also not normal to let the family into the house to take away (or take in) loads of stuff which could be vital to the investigation - before the police had even been there.

Honestly, I can't believe this myself. You clearly have a suspicious death of a high profile person, which will most definitely warrant an investigation, and you do not immediately secure the scene???

OTOH, just why was it necessary for the family to immediately remove personal effects?

I'm curious to see how this plays into the defense of Murray, and I think it will in some fashion. IMO,  investigators failed to maintain the basic protocol for identifying, establishing, protecting, and securing a potential crime scene. The investigators failed to follow the basic fundamental principles, policies and procedures of investigating a crime scene and preserving evidence.

Principles from Investigations For Dummies as I remember them (paraphrased):

One of the most important aspects of securing the crime scene is to preserve the scene with minimal contamination and disturbance of physical evidence. The initial response to an incident should be expeditious
and methodical. Upon arrival, the officer(s) should assess the scene and treat the incident as a crime scene.

They also failed to establish boundaries by failing to control the flow of persons entering and leaving the scene to maintain integrity of the scene.

Remember two key words a jury will hear:

Reasonable doubt.

Such impropriety can plant a seed of reasonable doubt.

[encino_girl]

by GramsGirl63 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:51 am
Thank you and very well said.
.I think the problem occurs when some fans put Michael on a pedestal that is up there next to Jesus

I say amen to that.
 LOL if you are not telling the truth about the true culprit.  
A Modern day Idol worship.
Mike may be/have been  many great things but he was no JESUS by anyone's honest reckoning IMO.

@ RunFaYaLife
I totally appreciated your honest  take and observation of the whole matter in your above post.
It is always very sad to see  people, who only wish to   see the good side of our beloved Mike ,and nothing of the downside in his humanity.

Believe it or not Michael Jackson was human just like the rest of of us.  
And yes, Michael Jackson has/ had greatness, but so did have/has numerous glaring weaknesses as well.  
 
Dito for you to post your honest take about Mike and some of his issues..
It may remind some of us to keep a more healthy and honest  balance in our assessment of Michael KOP..
Peace.

I don't worship Michael, nor do I fail to realize him as a human being with flaws and shortcomings just like the rest of us. Let me make that clear right now.

[encino_girl]

Exactly Sinders.  I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol.  Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.

Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.

Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.


Hollywood is a Monster.

" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?

Monster...he's a monster"

A lot of Dr. Feelgood's are probably shitting in their Armani suits about now. Perhaps that's one purpose of this trial??

[bec]

MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.

It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.

I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.

[whatyourheartsays]

All I know is that if i was involved in the death of a drug addict that possibly self injected while i was away for few minutes...No way i would touch anything about the "crime scene" and i would call the cops so they witness the victim fingerprint on bottles and syringes, and i would not "clean the room" to appear as guilty as possible.

This is a real man's laughter ...

[encino_girl]

MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.

It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.

I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.

Actually, we should all desire to be so Christ-like, and endeavor to love & serve our fellow man. There's absolutely nothing blasphemous about such a mind set. In fact, if you're of the Christian faith, it's biblical.

[Sinderella]

Exactly Sinders.  I wish I could stop myself from getting so angry lol.  Even a Hollywood film would be more accurate than this fiasco.

Well I am only stating facts which is all I ever try to do and they are to the best of my knowledge or that I know to be true just because I do.
I don't see something that can be linked to something else and those to other things...y'know what I mean...there is no solid beliveable chain of events.
Everything in life is due to a chain of events-I woke up>showered>got ready>went to a meeting...you know my day flows ,this whole mess does not flow.

Hollywood isn't even ready for this...It is about to get a very hard slap in the face.
This trial, if nothing else will blow open the underground world of Dr's ordering drugs that should only be used in a hospital setting,with proper medical care and equipment which goes on DAILY.Mainly in LA.
After this I would hope no Dr of any celebrity or any Dr in general can order those kinds of drugs when they only run a general practice,they have no use for them in there so clearly they are going to people who can afford to pay for them in cash,cars,houses.
Celebrities are being taken advantage of by people who are yes men/women and know exactly how to manipulate the trust those kinds of people have in them..not to tell their secrets.That is what they really pay for,the hush hush of it all.


Hollywood is a Monster.

" Hollywood it's got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It's got you bouncing off the wall
It's got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like what you see
Don't you, don't you like it?

Monster...he's a monster"

A lot of Dr. Feelgood's are probably shitting in their Armani suits about now. Perhaps that's one purpose of this trial??

Damn right they are,signing cars and bank accounts over to other peoples names as we speak for fear of getting their Assets frozen or seized.
I do believe this is part of what this is is all about along with the lying and the justice system being whack.
Also,the police and call center for 911 triangulate the cell's signal,so even if the address is unknown they can still find you in some sort of reasonable time frame.It is so the police/emergency services can't be accused of not attending to the scene in the fastest time possible.Imagine how many law suits there would be from people saying
'well you took 4hours to reach me and i've lost my leg now or,my wife bled to death'
That cell phone will have come from exactly where it says it came from.

All I know is that if i was involved in the death of a drug addict that possibly self injected while i was away for few minutes...No way i would touch anything about the "crime scene" and i would call the cops so they witness the victim fingerprint on bottles and syringes, and i would not "clean the room" to appear as guilty as possible.

This is a real man's laughter ...

Definitley,and the fact they waited around for him to do so...they SAW him from the ground floor,3floors up through the window...amazing skills.haha.
There is no way the LAPD should have left that house open for 4days,even if it was a death of natural causes,they should of taped it off anyway for privacy and forensics hours later.So why aren't they partially liable for this being a mess?No one has been accused of planting evidence due to there being access to the house,which they can't do because they never fingerprinted anything or anyone.
There was a truck taking stuff away from the house,who know's what was inside that,pretty sure it wasn't the furniture,I fail to see how the removal of a sofa is of immidiate importance when your son/brother has just died suddenly.
"OH WOE,I'M SO SAD AND NEED TO GRIEVE,BUT FIRST I MUST GET THAT SOFA OUT OF THE LOUNGE"
ALSO lets not forget the ladies shirt that was left hanging in the closet with blood on that they LEFT BEHIND and deemed non important to the investigation.er?
Even if it played no part in the case....who the fuck keeps a blood soaked woman's shirt in their closet?
Where was all this evidence/info last week?Questions on why it was left open for people to come and go as they pleased,move stuff...leave stuff....seriously,I can't sum up more words for how much BS is floating around this entire fiasco.

[peggy99]

I don't think there are any more words apart from BS.  Mobile phones (or cell phones) can 100% be traced to their exact location and if you read the fire tender's screen it actually says "query caller" or words to that effect.  There is far too much evidence here that has not been mentioned in Court.  The house should have been immediately sealed to preserve evidence.  When my aunt died suddenly in my house (I was out at the time), I was stopped from entering my own front door by the police until the doctor had been called and confirmed no foul play.  It is totally ridiculous to let the family in at all times of the day and night.  I'm getting angry again and I promised myself I wouldn't lol.  :?

[Sinderella]

Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.

[peggy99]

@Sinderella.  Can you think of any other high profile case (except Elvis) where standad procedures and normal protocol have not been followed.

[gboete]

MJ has a messiah complex. That is certain.

It matters not what WE believe, only what MJ believes and yes, all signs indicate that he believes he is Christ like and was sent here to save mankind.

I don't understand why this is a problem. I find it a wonderful thing. Who else would care that much about humanity? We should be grateful, not antagonistic. Let him believe that... WE all benefit from it.

Actually, we should all desire to be so Christ-like, and endeavor to love & serve our fellow man. There's absolutely nothing blasphemous about such a mind set. In fact, if you're of the Christian faith, it's biblical.

I think Michael is very Christ like. Nothing wrong with that, on the contrary, we all should be more like both of them, isn't that what the bible says ? Did people exactly know who Jesus was 2000 years ago ? Do we exactly know who Michael is in this moment ? He surely is a better person than most of us and than those who betrade him.

[encino_girl]

Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.

Sin, I may be way off base here, but my instinct tells me the failure to follow standard protocol was intentional.

If I'm wrong, if it wasn't a concerted effort to consciously neglect and deviate from standard procedure, and if I was a citizen under the jurisdiction of this law enforcement agency, I'd be livid that such incompetency was tolerated.

@Sinderella.  Can you think of any other high profile case (except Elvis) where standad procedures and normal protocol have not been followed.

Good question peggy99. None involving a celebrity as high profile as Michael or Elvis that I can recall. The parallels between the two cases are so similar, too.

[Sinderella]

Anger in this scenario is healthy though I think,and it is probably keeping your belief alive,knowing that all these things that are..and lets all be clear on this..STANDARD PROCEDURES do not exist in this case.

Sin, I may be way off base here, but my instinct tells me the failure to follow standard protocol was intentional. If I'm wrong, if it wasn't a concerted effort to consciously neglect and deviate from standard procedure, and if I was a citizen under the jurisdiction of this law enforcement agency, I'd be livid that such incompetency was tolerated.

No no,I don't think you're off base,it can only really be intentional because if not,something is seriously seriously wrong with the LAPD and UCLA.
As for being angry,I just meant-(hmm..how to express what I mean without offending people er..) being angry that you see it,and the reasons for them not existing-or some of the reasons, and other people don't and are losing their belief.
Does that make sense? :/

(BTW everyone,I have done day 5,lots to do for yesterday but i'll have them up by the weekend,I haven't forgot,I just got busy again sorry x)