Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[Lady J]

What happened till now?

[Sinderella]

Haha very good Bec.
@pepper,UCLA had no part in that statement,if they had and I am pretty sure someone OFFICIAL would have told the world that Michael Jackson was no more.
They have had no part in anything official,apart from this trial and if I'm right in my previous post,then they aren't lying either.

Why is there a mass debate on smoking?

Court is on lunch break right now,they have had 2 witnesses up this morning
Stephen Marx-who has been excused-DEA Computer forensics(retired since 09)
Tim Lopez-Who's pharmacy supplised Murray

Here are some notes I managed to make quickly from Lopez's grilling for anyone who doesn't have twitter/time as im doing 50 things at once atm but trying to keep the thread trial related =]

Witness #18 Tim Lopez
Employed. a pharmacist. 15 years. Business owner of Allied Pharmacy Services.
Murray first contacted him asking about Benoquin (Vitilligo treatment)
After dealing with Dr Murray about the cream, he then was contacted by Murray again asking about Propofol.
He asked about the specific price of propofol if Lopez would be able to provide it and saline bags.
Benoquin Cream 20% is a depigmenting agent whose mechanism of action is not fully understood.

Murray made a telephone order of:
1 carton of 100ml bottles. Ten inside the carton and 2 specific formultions of propofol.
1 bottle of 100ml, & it was packaged in a package of 10 from supplier in a sealed carton. It was delivered to Murrays office in Las Vegas

There are 10 individual vials, and they are sealed.
That one order, cotains 10 vials = 100 ml volume.
20 milleter vial, and has 25 indiviuals vials in that pack.
Pros: Which is a larger size?
Lopez: The 100ml is larger.
Pros; What else did he order?
Lopez: Nine saline bags. And renewed the benoquin.
He asked to deliver to his office in Las Vegas.

Information on Benoquin -You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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On next date, ordered 2 separate orders of propofol. Ordered 4 boxes. Each box has 10 10ml doses. Packaging the same manner as before.
Order on April 28th 2009: 25 individual vials & order to be delivered to Santa Monica address.
Murray also wanted to order lorazapam. He wanted inject diazapam in injectable forms
Pros: Are any of those available in any other form?
Lopez says Lorazapam also available in oral form
Also placed an order for a tray, of lorazapam vials and two trays of diazapam.
Total of 20 diazapam
Total of 10 of lorazapam
Lopez said it was no problem. He gave an address to the courier. Said he had a clinic in the Los Angeles facility.
 He said he saw patiens at the LA location that he wanted to have the medications sent there.
Murray said the meds would be under his control.
Verifies the address of Nicole's (Alverez) apartment in Santa Monica.
Dr. Murray then asked if part of the order could be delivered in Santa Monica

Murray also inquired about energy formulations. Some formulations that would give increased wakefulness.
Lopez suggested many drugs that had a side effect of alertness. Murray wanted it to be as natural as possible.

Telephone order May 12th:
Murray ordered 4 boxes of propolfol 100 mil in each box.
1 box of 20ml vial 25mi
2 trays of diazapam
Lidocane 2% cream (Lopez made for him) 60 grams.
1 tray of Flumazenil which is used to reverse benzodaiazipines.
This order was also shipped to the Santa Monica address.

May 14th 2009: Another phone conversation discuss placement order
Briefly dicussed benoquin, wanted to change vehicle of what it sits in to make it less greasy and sticky on the skin.
Worked on different formuatons to make that work.
The lidocane 2% was not strong enough, Lopez made it 4%

June 1st 2009 Lopez has another conversation with Murray

June 1st 2009 lopez has another conversation with Murray: RE energy request he had made some weeks prior
Lopez told him there were 3 main products available over the counter and he could put them into 1 capsule and Murray was happy with this
Formulation made up of caffine, asprin and ephedrine. (ECA is usually taken for weightloss because I have taken it,it supresses your appetite) (Note:SIN)
Lopez made 30 capsules to the above that formulation.
June 1st 2009 lopez has another conversation with Murray: RE energy request he had made some weeks prior
Lopez told him there were 3 main products available over the counter and he could put them into 1 capsule and Murray was happy with this
Formulation made up of caffine, asprin and ephedrine.
Lopez made 30 capsules to the above that formulation.

June 10, 2009 order included:
1 tray of lidocaine injectbal
4 boxes of propofol 10mil (40 individual vials)
2 propofol 20 mi, total of 50 bottles
20 60 gram benoquin
30 capsules of energy formulation.
To be shipped to Santa Monica.

June 15th 2009 Murray placed another order which included
1 trat lorazapam 10 litre vial injectable

Murray never disclosed the name of the patient the orders were for.

Lopez says it sounded like Dr. Murray was driving the car with the window down, was very noisy & a brief conversation.

Never spoke again after that
Lopez says the last time he spoke to Murray was the 23rd 24th June.

Def: Is it fair to say as a pharmacist, part of your job is to provide prescirption medicaiton to doctors? Lopez: Yes.
Def: There are a lot of laws and rules and regs your supposed to comply with?
Explains before filling a new perscription, you need to verify the validity and veracity of the license.
Def: No one can just call up and get some medicine sent.
Lopez: That’s correct.
Def: Like a good pharmacist you did that in the case of Dr. Murray?
Lopez:Yes.
Def: And everything checked out.
Lopez: Yes.
Def: Is it true, there are no restrictions on where these meds can be sent?
Lopez asks to repeat
Def: Do you not have the same laws and protocols as to where you send it?
Lopez: I just send it to where he directs.
Def: Other than that, you have no other due dilligence.?
- Apparently, there are no other verifications that he needs to do, prior to shipping those medicaitons. -
Pros shows Lopez receipt/invoicess which are identified as the orders Murray made
Just need to know he is a licensed physician.
How do you get Propofol from the larger 100ml bottled? Lopez says by needle
Asks about another dr Lopez was selling propofol to. Lopez says no.
Defence asks various questions about patients privacy and high profile patients, not really relevant.

An one e-mail displayed in court, a London insurance broker trying to secure a policy in case of cancellation asked Murray to provide details about the singer’s care and to respond to media allegations that Jackson suffered from lupus, cancer and other ailments on the morning of June 25th.
The doctor e-mailed back that he did not have authorization to share the information, but wrote, “As far as the statements of his health published by the press, let me say they are all fallacious to the best of my knowledge.”
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Back asap.

[DancingTheDream]

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Dr. Conrad Murray sent an e-mail to a British insurance agent assuring him that Michael Jackson was in good health just 40 minutes before the doctor realized the pop star had stopped breathing, according to testimony Monday.

The e-mail, found on Murray's iPhone, was introduced Monday at a preliminary hearing to decide if the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray will go to trial.

Murray ordered more than 15 liters of propofol -- a surgical anesthetic -- and 80 vials of injectable sedatives from a Las Vegas pharmacy in the three months before Jackson's death, a pharmacist testified.

The drugs were shipped to the Santa Monica, California, apartment where Murray stayed with a girlfriend while he worked as Jackson's personal physician, according to pharmacist Tim Lopez and earlier witnesses.

A Los Angeles coroner's investigator testified Friday about finding empty and unused drug vials near Jackson's bed and in a closet after Jackson's death.

The coroner concluded that "acute propofol intoxication" in combination with sedatives killed Jackson on June 25, 2009.

Murray injected Jackson with a series of sedatives and finally with propofol that morning, according to Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney David Walgren. While Jackson slept, Murray made and received several phone calls and replied to e-mails.

"As far as the statement of his health published by the press, let me say they're all malicious to the best of my knowledge," Murray wrote in an e-mail sent from his iPhone at 11:17 a.m. to an insurance agent.

The agent, who was considering "cancellation insurance" for Jackson's upcoming London concerts, sent Murray an e-mail earlier in the morning raising concerns about media reports about Jackson's health.

After sending the e-mail, Murray apparently began a series of cell phone calls, including the last conversation with Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding. She testified Friday that she was on the phone with Murray when he suddenly stopped responding.

That moment, at about 11:57 a.m., is when prosecutors contend Dr. Murray first realized that Michael Jackson has stopped breathing.

"I didn't hear him on the phone anymore," Anding said. "I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket and I heard coughing and I heard a mumbling of voices."

Several of Jackson's family members were in court for Monday's testimony, including sisters Janet, La Toya and Rebe. His mother, Katherine, and brothers Jackie and Randy Jackson also were in court.

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[hesouttamylife]

One call on Murray’s phone, was either to or from the insurance company 40 minutes before Michael “died” with Murray reporting that MJ was fine. :shock:

[curls]

Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave!  So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.

This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.

[DancingTheDream]

Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave!  So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.

This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.

Remember, this is just the prosecution side.  We havent heard from the defence yet.

[hesouttamylife]

Murray denied release of MJs medical records to the insurance company. :?

[curls]

Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave!  So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.

This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.

Remember, this is just the prosecution side.  We havent heard from the defence yet.

Am I right in thinking we won't get to hear from the defence in this prelim hearing?  Is that all kept for the trial?

[encino_girl]

Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave!  So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.

This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.

Remember, this is just the prosecution side.  We havent heard from the defence yet.

The cocktail waitress testified Murray abruptly ended his conversation with her, but he didn't hand up the phone. Instead, she says, "I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket and I heard coughing and I heard a mumbling of voices."

Ok. Let me state this aloud so as to get it straight in my head.

Murray's on the phone with her. He suddenly realizes something's wrong, and absentmindedly sticks the phone in his pocket as he tends to his patient. She then only hears a 'commotion' (panic? yelling?etc.) and mumbling voices.

The doctor taking care of one of the most famous persons in history only makes a "commotion" and those who (assuming) join him only mumble??

If I put my iPhone in my pocket, or even lay it nearby, any person whom I've called will hear plainly what's going on around me.

Hushed tones at the scene of 'death'?

Could this indicate more than one guilty person (I'd be very vocal about getting some help if I was on the scene), or perhaps someone was giving some last minute instructions???

[encino_girl]

Oh dear Murray - what a tangled web you weave!  So MJ is fine 40 mins before he dies, yet you've been ordering a whole pharmacy of drugs for him.

This HAS to go to trial - I can't wait to see what he has to say for himself.

Remember, this is just the prosecution side.  We havent heard from the defence yet.

Am I right in thinking we won't get to hear from the defence in this prelim hearing?  Is that all kept for the trial?

Yes. You are correct. This is the hearing at which the prosecution lays out its evidence to the judge, and he'll decide if the prosecution has enough evidence to warrant a trial by jury.

[hesouttamylife]

I just heard that the coroner doesn’t know where the autopsy report came from.  Not official.  I’ll get some more info on this.

[curls]

Reminded me of this:

Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake
Originally posted Jun 29th 2009 8:14 AM PDT by TMZ Staff

Image

We've learned the story making the rounds detailing the terrible condition of Michael Jackson's body is a fake.

A report in The Sun gave harrowing details of the body, but we've learned the "autopsy report" was fabricated and completely false.

UPDATE: The Los Angeles County coroner just released the following statement:

"The report that is being published did not come from this office. I don't know where the information came from, or who that information came from. It is not accurate. Some of it is totally false."

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ... rt-a-fake/

[nefari]

curls that link is a dead end. It says 404 not found.

[curls]

curls that link is a dead end. It says 404 not found.

Try this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I knew I remembered that the coroner had said the report didn't come from his office  so I hunted around here and found the TMZ article here in the TMZ Full Recap section for June 2009 - Part 2

[nefari]

It says "some of it" is totally false. I wish I knew what parts are true and which are false.