Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[moyrum]

"If convicted by a jury Dr Murray faces up to four years’ jail, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter.
But if the West Indian-born heart specialist accepts a plea deal he could walk free with a suspended sentence".

What dies that mean, If Murray accepts he is guilty it means he will walk free?  :?

[loyalfan]

:?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:                          

[MissG]

I just find a bit odd seing Murray "relaxed" after the storm that is waiting for him.

Also, I read comments from TMZ. People write "If I see Murray i will kill him" and similar quotes  :?  I mean, people (some fans) can really lose a screw and shoot him or harm him  :?

Today was a video in TMZ were Murray bought a baloon to a little girl.

Murray is moving everywhere an people do not recognize him?

[Grace]

I don't worry so much for Doc Murray. I think he's somewhere safe.
First the courtrooms have a chopper landing place or a backdoor and second nobody can convince me that he is being filmed or photographed today if I don't see a newspaper of the actual date in his hands. I think all visual material was shot beforehand.

Harvey, it's your turn...  

[MissG]

"If convicted by a jury Dr Murray faces up to four years’ jail, the maximum under California law for involuntary manslaughter.
But if the West Indian-born heart specialist accepts a plea deal he could walk free with a suspended sentence".

What dies that mean, If Murray accepts he is guilty it means he will walk free?  :?

Minister 'Got Away With Murder
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Rockingham, N.C. — A plea deal that allows a minister who killed his wife to serve no more than seven years in prison amounts to getting away with murder, the Richmond County sheriff said Thursday.

Melvin Bynum, 45, pleaded guilty Wednesday to voluntary manslaughter in the strangulation death of 40-year-old Marnita Bynum, his wife of 19 years.

Authorities found the body of Marnita Bynum, a substitute teacher, in the trunk of her Chrysler Sebring convertible, which had been abandoned on a rural road north of Hamlet on Aug. 2, 2004.

Under his plea agreement, Bynum was sentenced to 64 to 86 months in prison. He has already spent more than two years behind bars, having been held in the Richmond County Jail since his arrest in September 2004.

Judge David Lee on Tuesday rejected a plea agreement that would have carried a sentence of no more than five years in prison. Lee said he wanted more discretion in sentencing after listening to testimony from Marnita Bynum's relatives about the impact of her slaying.

Bynum, the pastor of Cry Out Loud Ministries in Sanford, originally was charged with first-degree murder in the case and could have faced the death penalty if convicted on that charge.

Richmond County Sheriff Dale Furr, who led the investigation into Marnita Bynum's death, said he protested the plea deal when prosecutors informed him about it earlier this week. Investigators had compiled enough evidence to convict Bynum of first-degree murder, he said.

"I strongly opposed that plan," Furr said of the plea deal. “(It says) that you can possibly get away with murder. That's exactly what happened.”

The prosecutor handling the case was concerned that a key witness refused to testify against Bynum, Furr said. However, he said he believes the witness would have testified if she faced charges in the case.

“I think she possibly could have and would have been charged as an accessory,” Furr said.

Richmond County District Attorney Michael Parker issued a statement late Tuesday defending the decision to offer Bynum a deal in the case.

"Although a massive investigation was conducted into Ms. Bynum's death, neither the sheriff's office nor the state can manufacture evidence. We can only present what is found," the statement said. "The defendant's plea to voluntary manslaughter is consistent with the facts provable by the state, given the circumstances surrounding Marnita's death."

Peg Dorer of the North Carolina Conference of District Attorneys said it's not necessarily what someone thinks, but what can be proven in court. Some cases lack credible witnesses or physical evidence, she said.

“Sometimes cases 'go south.' At that point, DAs must salvage what they can,” Dorer said.

Furr said he realizes the case is the DA's to prosecute, but he said investigators should have gotten a chance to make the case against Bynum. That chance has passed.

"It's over with,” he said.

Looks like, a plea would ease the sentence

[Sinderella]

I don't really understand what you're saying,this was uploaded to facebook and IS from yesterday.She is quite a 'famous' non believer,it wasn't just taken by a random fan.
They have his apartment details and everything.
Why is it hard to believe?Surely it gives more proof this isn't real?If he ISN'T in hiding..
He was out shopping at Nordstrom on Jan 5th
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Jan 3rd he was photographed going to the steak house,i'm pretty sure the name came up in the prelim questions this week....after this was taken.

EXC PICS: Dr. Conrad Murray was snapped heading to Houston’s steakhouse in Santa Monica with his family. Murray is currently awaiting trial for the death of Michael Jackson.

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Also real,no security, no newspaper.
If you don't believe it's recent then I won't try and sway you otherwise,but he is being spotted by people other than TMZ-who aren't all that reliable as we know.
and I know fans can get scary dangerous and attack him but tbh,most non believers just want to see him go to prison..he won't if he gets 'whacked' before that might happen.

A plea and deal would=No full trial.This would stop after the prelim.

[kdkennedy74]

I have pasted KO's comments below and highlighted what I found to be curious.  KO says that MJ did not look well and was chilled and soft spoken but yet asked if he needed to go home to be with his family. If MJ was "sick" would it not have been more appropriate to ask if he just needed to go home and get some rest? The reason I find this curious is could it be that MJ was upset and anxious over the "illusion" that was to begin on June 25th and the fact that he knew what was going to happen and therefore the chills and soft-spoken behaviour were simply brought on by the nerves of an anxious man?  Maybe KO wanted MJ to go home and spend time with his family so that he could find comfort and encouragement for the decision he was about to make. Maybe he just needed more assurance that everything was going to be ok. I would think that planning an event as huge as making the world believe that you are dead could put a lot of stress on a person.  I am speculating I know but I am just trying to think outside of the box as to his wording.

KENNY ORTEGA

Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson’s home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.

Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.

Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.

"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."

Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.

"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."
The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.

"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."

Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.

He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.

"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

[RunFaYaLife]

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

When I read that I understood it to mean that Chernoff was say OR insinuating that
Murray was trying to ween Michael off of some of the drugs he may have been taking....if that is the case.....it appears that Murray was replacing them
with or perhaps cutting MJ down from what he had been taking larger doses of
or that will be what his attorney's will plead if this goes to trial.
Regardless....if this was NOT a hoax....it was an Epic FAIL on Murray's and AEG's part.

The whole thing makes me mad just thinking about it.

My argument for MJ would be Why?
What a STUPID thing to do!
Especially right before the mega come back tour in over a decade!..
not ONLY that but ALL that was at stake for him....
Michael had to be scared to death!

Oh and lest I forget [it happens-lol] thanks for the welcome!

[GramsGirl63]

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

When I read that I understood it to mean that Chernoff was say OR insinuating that
Murray was trying to ween Michael off of some of the drugs he may have been taking....if that is the case.....it appears that Murray was replacing them
with or perhaps cutting MJ down from what he had been taking larger doses of
or that will be what his attorney's will plead if this goes to trial.
Regardless....if this was NOT a hoax....it was an Epic FAIL on Murray's and AEG's part.

The whole thing makes me mad just thinking about it.

My argument for MJ would be Why?
What a STUPID thing to do!
Especially right before the mega come back tour in over a decade!..
not ONLY that but ALL that was at stake for him....
Michael had to be scared to death!

Oh and lest I forget [it happens-lol] thanks for the welcome!

Murray could have very well been weaning Michael off of some of the drugs and replacing them with others..I think if someone is chronically addicted to prescribed meds it may not be possible for them to come off all drugs altogether..It certainly wouldn't be possible to just stop the meds either as Michael would have probably gone into convulsions and the withdrawals alone could have killed him anyway.

I am remembering all that I read about Elvis Presley and his doctor and how his doctor would take Elvis off of some meds and replace them with other ones..Maybe ones that were not as strong..I will have to go over all my Elvis books again...Remarkable really how alike this case is to the Elvis death..

[Serenitys_Dream]

Butterfly Pin on Katherine's lapel.
Credit esprit467

[curls]

I have pasted KO's comments below and highlighted what I found to be curious.  KO says that MJ did not look well and was chilled and soft spoken but yet asked if he needed to go home to be with his family. If MJ was "sick" would it not have been more appropriate to ask if he just needed to go home and get some rest? The reason I find this curious is could it be that MJ was upset and anxious over the "illusion" that was to begin on June 25th and the fact that he knew what was going to happen and therefore the chills and soft-spoken behaviour were simply brought on by the nerves of an anxious man?  Maybe KO wanted MJ to go home and spend time with his family so that he could find comfort and encouragement for the decision he was about to make. Maybe he just needed more assurance that everything was going to be ok. I would think that planning an event as huge as making the world believe that you are dead could put a lot of stress on a person.  I am speculating I know but I am just trying to think outside of the box as to his wording.

I picked up on this strange wording as well.  If I'm not well at work, I'm told to get home to bed, not to 'be with my family'! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me - speculation I know, but so is almost everything around here!

[Sinderella]

Just to say day's 3/4 have been finished and sent to souza, she will put them up when she can.

As for Kenny...I find it strange he was only up there for such a short amount of time,they kept Murray's 'gf' up there longer.Surely the man who is working on his 'tour'/movie and has seen him more or less everyday is going to give more of an insight into how he seemed,behaved,what he ate,what his moods were like,work effort etc than anyone else.
They just didn't appear to question him in a way I would deem correct for a manslaughter prelim.

I was talking to Ms Forst yesterday and we ended up discussing the consequences of all this,legally.Not to get into it because I think there is enough going on at the moment for people to read through and understand without bringing in other things but we discussed the possible idea that everyone up there is actually telling the truth.
No one has yet said it was M.J.Jackson.Only Michael Jackson.
No one of credibility has stood up yet and said I saw his body it was 100% THE Michael Jackson.
No one has provided photo evidence since 2009-i'm sure if they had this forum would not exist.
They have only said they worked on someone by the name of Michael Jackson,now although this is his name,if someone had agreed to 'donate' their body and change their name(which honestly is not hard to do and there have been stranger name change requests like my friend changing his surname to Skywalker-TRUE STORY) say,in agreement that in return their loved ones/family left behind would be given a pretty hefty sum of money,their funeral would be paid for,etc then technically,everyone who has given evidence is telling the truth.They did work on a body,his initials were MJ and he did infact die.
This would also then explain the information on the AR being wrong-but it wasn't wrong for the person who did get taken in that day.Brown hair,wrong height,scars missing from details,etc.
They have only said he was pale and thin-but so are millions of people.
Kai never saw him at all on June 25th,infact no one did apart from Murray and Alvarez who have both only either refered to a body or to Michael Jackson.
I went to highschool with a Michael Jackson,if he had of had an accident in class and I came home and said Michael Jackson had an awful accident today people would assume I meant the moonwalking Michael Jackson and i'd heard it on the news when in reality it was a 15yr old in school.
The paramedic admitted on the stand that he overheard in the ambulance that it was Michael Jackson he had just tried to revive and it was only then he realised the request for a sheet to be put over his face-so while in the house..he musn't of even recognised him...which im sorry,I don't believe to be possible.
He also said that outside the house there was a lot of media "big and small cameras,there were a lot" so where is all the footage?where are the pictures?These paparazzi do this as a living,this is the biggest story of 2009,it would be VITAL to get that shot,any shot of what was going on...but magically..there is non.They don't seem to have a problem the rest of the time when they snap him through windows in restaurants and zoom in on him from inside bushes down the street....but outside his house,they never got a single shot. AMAZING.
He wasn't seen much before June,only on odd trips out-mostly medical and he had a mask on.Everyone on earth knows he changes his look/image on a yearly basis so really no one could 100% say they knew what he looked like on June 25th for sure.
As we know he was not seen in or around Carolwood,I don't think ever-there is a thread on it by WYHS,I don't know what the outcome was on it but I think it was that no one had ever seen him there,and it was more than likely rented for this purpose.
He wasn't really seen in LA in 2009,only now and again.Is there any pictures of him walking into staples or out?looking tired after '16hour days' not that I'm aware of.

I do not believe he would do al of this only to face legal consequences afterwards,and the possibility of jail for a multitude of things,it would be pointless.
Give the man some credit,I mean he planned this,I don't think he'd risk losing his children at the end of it.

No one has to agree to any of this,it was just something we were talking about last night and sounds pretty probable when looking at consequences in the wake of all of this.
It is his estate also to hand over to anyone he likes so he won't get in any trouble for that.Nor for making $$$ off his death because as I said in a previous comment non has been made from the fact.His taxes are paid,his debts have been paid off using money his own products have made and his children are well cared for by their family.

Man's laughter
prop fool
A sad Ending
haha...

[MashMike]

Amazing post Sinderella, bravo, it really makes a lot of sense

[~Souza~]

Man's laughter
prop fool
A sad Ending
haha...

Don't forget about Connie: Murder by contract :lol:  :lol:

[VeryLittleSusie]

What if it isn't a real trial (of course, it isn't) but, in fact, a filmset? A staged court hearing to look like the real one but in fact - done for the film? I mean, not real? They hire a room in the actual court, engage actors and make a show, a performance?    :?

Is it possible? What do you think?  :?