Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[MJhasSpoken]

It ok...Just take your time...no rush...thanks for taking the time to make the thread...on that note thanks to all the admins and mods for keeping this forum structured and organised...and thank you everyone else on the forum for letting us read your opinions and drawing our attention to stories related or non related to the hoax... no matter how small the contribution to this website in any way its still a contribution...we might only lay one brick each but together we make a darn good house  :lol:

[loyalfan]

can i ask a question please.................
HAS ANYONE ON HERE,COMPARED THE 2005 TRIAL TO 2010/2011 TRIAL PRELIM........................and noticed similarities........?

e.g. packages arriving at murrays home.... was there anything about packages  2005...?
katherine crying in court...?? 2005,who cried in court


hope i am making myself understood here..........x

[Sinderella]

Life goes on Sinders - hope everything's ok.

It ok...Just take your time...no rush...thanks for taking the time to make the thread...on that note thanks to all the admins and mods for keeping this forum structured and organised...and thank you everyone else on the forum for letting us read your opinions and drawing our attention to stories related or non related to the hoax... no matter how small the contribution to this website in any way its still a contribution...we might only lay one brick each but together we make a darn good house  :lol:

I love that quote!!

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this Sinders I hope you know how much it's appreciated, I guess some get impatient for updates but life has to go on for you too, and patience is after all a virtue we should all have acquired since all this began!!

You are so very welcome forum family,I am really happy to do it and if it makes people feel a bit better about it all,answers a few questions,gives someone a new insight or whatever then that is amazing and yes a big thank you to anyone who has posted in here and given an opinion or written out trial updates,recaps etc <3
Everything is fine,thank you for asking!Just a stressful time,I don't like falling behind myself.I should learn to stop being a perfectionist/workaholic haha.

 

Love to you all,stay strong and beLIEve xo

[MissG]

As to the Propofol discussion coming up again and again and in the light of the probable upcoming "fight of experts" over the matter in prelim / trial, I never get James Brown out of my mind.
James Brown died of pneumonia and induced heart failure.
James Brown was seeing his dentist for a dental implant treatment before being advised to get treatment for his overall condition and checking into Emory Crawford Long Memorial Hospital.

On December 23, 2006, James Brown, in ill health, showed up at his dentist's office in Atlanta, Georgia several hours later than his appointment for dental implant work. During that visit, Brown's dentist observed that Brown looked "very bad ... weak and dazed." Instead of performing the dental work, the dentist advised Brown to see a doctor right away about his medical condition.

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Oral surgeons are second only to anesthesiologists in their training to administer the drug because it is so widely used to remove wisdom teeth or insert dental implants, Perrott said.

The government's drug czar warned Thursday that Jackson's death is a wake-up call to the nation about prescription drug abuse. Gil Kerlikowske, chief of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said in an interview on CBS' "The Early Show" that more people are dying in the United States from drug overdoses than gunshot wounds.

Weber said. "I would think it would be very hard to overdose alone because once you stop, the effects go away."

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Mid July 2009 the first recalls of Propofol were published by the FDA for safety reasons (bacterial contamination of the product). The timing is not astonishing - the name of Propofol was in all newspapers after Michael's "passing". However:

A Teva spokeswoman said the company had been contacted by the Drug Enforcement Administration about a lot number on a specific propofol vial "in relation to an investigation they are conducting," which she did not confirm or deny involved the Jackson death.

That lot number, she said, is not one of those involved in the recall.

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More than 57,000 vials of Teva-manufactured propofol were recalled after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a health advisory on July 13, 2009, warning physicians not to use 100 ml vials of propofol from two lots.

One of main manufacturers of Propofol is TEVA, another is Hospira.
Teva received a warning from FDA in April 2010 after they had to recall 100 ml vials from the market:

Teva Pharmaceuticals failed to have proper quality control measures in place to prevent bacterial contamination from entering batches of their generic version of the anesthetic propofol, leading to a recall last year after at least 40 people became ill, according to federal inspectors.

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Teva stopped production thus resulting in a product shortage in the U.S.

The Teva propofol recall, and another propofol recall by Hospira, Inc. due to particulate matter contamination in November, has caused a shortage of propofol in the United States. As a result, the FDA has given APP Pharmaceuticals Inc. permission to import Propoven, a similar drug, into the U.S. Propoven has not been approved by FDA, but is in use in a number of other countries around the world.

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Where do the contaminations result from?

The  drug  is available  as  an  aqueous  lipid   emulsion  
(Dipdvan|      ICI   Pharmaceuticals)
containing   I%  propofol,   10%  soyabean  oil,   1.2%  egg
phosphatide  and  2.25% glycerol.
Product  information  provided with propofol states that
the  preparation  should  be  "...  drawn  aseptically  into  a
sterile syringe  ...  immediately alter opening the ampoule"
and  that  it should  be injected "...  without  delay." Despite
these  recommendations,   it  is  often  difficult  in  clinical
practice to ensure that there is no delay between drawing-
up  and  administration.  Therefore  propofol  can  often  be
left  standing  in  a  sterile  syring~  for  some  period  of time
prior to administration.  

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The intravenous anaesthetic propofol may become contaminated once the ampoules have been opened. [...] When propofol is stored in opened ampoules, the bacterial contamination rate is high.

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Propofol can support rapid microbial growth and endotoxin production. To avoid infectious complications, scrupulous aseptic technique should be used when preparing or administering this anesthetic.

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FDA issued a warning about proper handling in 2007 already.
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Escherichia coli is one of the most frequent causes of many common bacterial infections, including cholecystitis, bacteremia, cholangitis, urinary tract infection (UTI), and traveler's diarrhea, and other clinical infections such as neonatal meningitis and pneumonia.

Drawing out a case that has not yet been subject to interest:
We face three sources of contamination of the product with bacteria:
1) the fact that the product is containing soy bean oil which as a lipid supports bacteria growth
2) improper manufacturing
3) improper handling at anesthesia administration in divergence to guidelines

Therefore  propofol  can  often  be
left  standing  in  a  sterile  syring~  for  some  period  of time
prior to administration.  For some anaesthetists,  this delay
is  on  occassion  deliberate  with  several  induction  doses
prepared  in  advance  for  an  operating  list.  The  problem
of  clinical  practicalities  occasionally  resulting  in  diver-
gence from package  insert  guidelines  has  been previously
identified,  l but not  quantified.

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Given, Mr. Brown went to see his dentist and was administered the drug from a not ideal clinical environment in preparation of the implant treatment, he showed unusual reactions to the drug and was advised to see a physician.
Could it be plausible that his conditions aggravated from the injection of contaminated material?
Could it be either the dentist, the hospital or both having executed avoidable mal-practice?
Could it be plausible that James Brown's death could have been avoided?

26 News spoke to C.A. Reid Memorial Funeral Home and found out that Jackson had a personal viewing the night before Brown's funeral. They tell 26 News Jackson stood over Brown for more than four hours to honor him.
26 News has also learned Jackson asked about the casket Brown had picked. It is the same type of casket he picked for himself.

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Could the statement that the dentist never treated James Brown but sent him right away be a cover-up? The cover-up we should rather focus on?
Did anybody ever question the death of James Brown?

This made me think about the fake drugs being sold in Africa, where people dies by consuming meds that are not effective.

There was a case were some kids did not wake up from surgery because the adrenaline was fake. Also was a case repported were diabetic patiens died by using fake insuline.


African police seize 10 metric tons of fake meds
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Learn about counterfeit drugs around the globe
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[MJTruth77]

Thanks for the warm welcome

Sinderella, thanks for posting the transcripts and sorry if I appear impatient..I'm just anxious to see what was said...there are many contradictions so far which has me raising some red flags.

And I will be honest, I'm not quite a hoax believer just yet..I do believe that Michael is gone forever *cries*...but that is why I am here to find out more because I DO hope that he is alive somewhere.

[Sinderella]

Thanks for the warm welcome

Sinderella, thanks for posting the transcripts and sorry if I appear impatient..I'm just anxious to see what was said...there are many contradictions so far which has me raising some red flags.

And I will be honest, I'm not quite a hoax believer just yet..I do believe that Michael is gone forever *cries*...but that is why I am here to find out more because I DO hope that he is alive somewhere.

Not at all,no need to be sorry,I was simply answering your question =]
I know everyone is eager to read and talk about the trial,there are a few notes up in the previous pages from yesterday to do with Fleak and her finds in the bedroom and a great post from S_D which is more indepth about the drugs found.

There are too many contradictions starting on June 25th 2009.
May I make a suggestion to you,as you are not quite a full believer yet,look at the things that don't make sense rather than the things that do to start with.
Look at er...a post i made a few pages back about off things on the actual day,the ambulance reversing when it could of driven forward,no sirens,the fake pic taken by one of MJ's own friends and who does work for the national photographic-the LACK of pictures taken overall that day,the fact all the staff were 'removed' soon after,the paramedics behaviour,inconsistent stories,lies at the hospital,the way Murray behaved-there is just no way he can be a real cardiologist and not know CPR,there is just none.It is taught in highschool.
Look at the how TMZ reported his death before it had even been called at the hospital,no one has actually seen this body apart from Murray,Alvarez and some dodgy UCLA staff,nothing was signed,med records were lied on,NO TIME OF ANYTHING was kept by anyone,a Dr must always note times of things due to the drugs and so on which may need to be administered at different stages/time of incident/time of death etc.
Look into the very wrong autopsy report,they don't even have his name on it!!
There is so much from that day to look at from another perspective.
Then you have the body moving in the helicopter-EVERYONE saw that,that was not a mirage,it happened.The fact they used no LAcoroner body bag,just a sheet....non believers look at it like 'oh how typical,because it's MJ nothing is done properly' but in reality it was done on purpose.
Look at the footage of the guy jumping out with a sheet over him,then look up the fact the german group who said they did it,are friends of Michael's,one is an MJ impersonator himself,and their video is totally different to the actual one filmed-different height van to door,different coloured door,different security guy...and so on.I have my own opinions on why they said they did it,it's because it was never meant to be seen and it was so it needed to be covered up.
They just should of used obscure random ppl but they couldn't,they needed people who are trusted so why not use friends?

Do you know what I mean...?

Watch the memorial again,look at how ridiculous it is,who is there more importantly who IS NOT there.The kids faces,they didnt just watch their father die 7days before hand,at all.The casket is too small also...just to point your attention to that whole thing.
As for FL funeral...i'm not even going into it.LOL.
Think...Liberian Girl..it will help.

It literally goes on and on and on.You have a lot to catch up on so I suggest-with love-that while waiting for court updates you might want to look into some of what I said above

If you have any questions there are more than enough people here to answer you in full and guide you in the right direction

I hope this helps you believe a little more than you do already x

[MJTruth77]

Replying to Sinderella:

I tried quoting you but for some reason it isn't working.

Anyway, this is why I am here because there are a lot of things about the memorial and also the This Is It movie..that made me wonder.  I noticed that too, that the casket is too small for MJ.  MJ was tall.  And how come it was a closed casket not an open casket? MJ was the most famous man in the world why wouldn't the family have an open casket?  And in the This Is It movie...there was no RIP or 1958-2009...which I also found to be quite odd since had just died.  And the children at the memorial couldn't look more bored.

Where can I find the footage you indicated about a man covering the body with a sheet? Is it in the video section of the forum?

But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.

[bec]

But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.

Yes, that's why he is doing this for us. Because he loves us. It's all for love. The Greatest Demonstration for Freedom in HIStory.

[Datroot]

But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.

Yes, that's why he is doing this for us. Because he loves us. It's all for love. The Greatest Demonstration for Freedom in HIStory.

I think it's more because he had no other choice.

[Sinderella]

Replying to Sinderella:

I tried quoting you but for some reason it isn't working.
Anyway, this is why I am here because there are a lot of things about the memorial and also the This Is It movie..that made me wonder.  I noticed that too, that the casket is too small for MJ.  MJ was tall.  And how come it was a closed casket not an open casket? MJ was the most famous man in the world why wouldn't the family have an open casket?  And in the This Is It movie...there was no RIP or 1958-2009...which I also found to be quite odd since had just died.  And the children at the memorial couldn't look more bored.

Where can I find the footage you indicated about a man covering the body with a sheet? Is it in the video section of the forum?

But my question is, why would Michael do that? Is he under a protection plan? I mean a lot of people MJ fans are in pain and hurting believing that Michael is gone, would Michael want to hurt his fans that way? I don't think he would he loved his fans dearly.

Oh don't worry just @ me =]

I could go on for many many hours about the issues with TII.And also the 02 conference.I dont want to get into either because people have strong opinions on both and I dont want to direct the thread off the trial topic but I can pm you and there are literally hundreds of links,threads and so on already on the forum going through almost every frame of that movie/conference.That is really when the whole thing started-not saying it was only planned from March-impossible but the ball started rolling,IMO.
There is no RIP anywhere for him on anything-I did a post on those things er...a few pages into this thread so go from page one and see if you agree with it or not.
The body was wrapped in a sheet on the stretcher,the coroner van opened the door,pulled another stretcher out to transport it over,but took the body bag that was on the stretcher OFF and threw it back into the van,by law a dead body must be transported for health and safety in a body bag...i mean it's common knowledge.
I will find you the video to watch

He DOES love them,not did but it goes beyond that....he loves his kids more and I personally think there are a number of reasons behind this...dots still need to be connected yet though
You only need to watch them at the funerals,his family...not one tear...from anyone to know it isn't real.
His kids are the key

[MashMike]

I think it's more because he had no other choice.



Agree with u, all this is bigger and more serious, yes, his fans are his life, he loves us dearly but i'm more than sure that if his and his kids' lives were in serious danger he had to forget about everything and do what he had to do. None of us knows Michael and we cannot say what he would do or what he wouldn't do.

[SoldierofLOVE]

I think it's more because he had no other choice.



Agree with u, all this is bigger and more serious, yes, his fans are his life, he loves us dearly but i'm more than sure that if his and his kids' lives were in serious danger he had to forget about everything and do what he had to do. None of us knows Michael and we cannot say what he would do or what he wouldn't do.

Well said.  I agree.

[GramsGirl63]

Sinderella,Just wanted to thank you for all the hard work and effort you have put in for all of us in providing the updates and everything..It is really appreciated.♥

[FITA]

Yes.  Thank you, Sinderella.  I have to be careful when I read the locked prelim thread because it can be disheartening at times.  However, I just remind myself that, in the end, we will all see that this was just a part of the hoax.  Michael is still alive and wants us to all "Keep the Faith" and know that "[We] Are Not Alone."

[Im_convincedmjalive]

Im_convincedmjalive wrote:

Harvey said something very interesting recently. He said that Michael Jackson will go on trial and it will take about three months. Hmmm did Michael's actual trial take 3 months?

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17063

ijcsly wrote:
TMZ live january 5th (delete if already discussed)

start looking at around 7:00

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twitter question : how long will MJ trial last?
Harvey answers: this is not the trial just the prelim, 30 witnesses bla bla bla and then the judge will decide if Michael Jackson should stand trial...

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Last Updated: Tuesday, 7 June, 2005, 07:08 GMT 08:08 UK

Michael Jackson: Trial of the century?

Michael Jackson's court case was expected to be the "trial of the century" - but after just three months and few of the promised celebrity witnesses, has it lived up to its billing?

Michael Jackson did not give evidence himself

There are few stars more famous than Michael Jackson and few charges more serious than sexually abusing a young boy.

Yet there is a sense that the singer's trial has not caught the public's interest as much as many had expected.

"Forget the century, it wasn't even the cultural story of the spring," says Robert Thompson, professor of popular culture and director for the centre for the study of popular television at Syracuse University.

"It turns out more people were talking about American Idol by a long shot."

The assumption that 24-hour news channels would go into a constant "Michael cycle" was wrong, he explains.

TV reconstructions have been filmed in the absence of real footage

"It turns out that as a massive news story over here, as another trial of the century, it really didn't live up to it. It was no OJ, by any stretch of the imagination."

For news channel CNN, there has been big interest in what is "a very important story on many different levels", according to Nick Wrenn, managing editor of CNN Europe, Middle East and Africa.

"There's been a fair degree of coverage - but not the kind of wall-to-wall you would have expected. Certainly not the kind of coverage we saw with the OJ Simpson trial."

That is partly because Judge Rodney Melville refused to let the trial be televised, saying he did not want it to become a "circus".

So, reconstructions aside, people have been unable to get hooked on following the soap opera-like drama in their living rooms every night.

When the OJ Simpson case became a media event as well as a murder trial 10 years ago, action such as Simpson trying on a pair of blood-stained gloves in court kept viewers hooked.

But this time, there has been little on-screen excitement, except Mr Jackson shuffling into court in his pyjamas.

"Even if there was complete access to cameras in the court, I still don't think this would have reached that [OJ-like] level of cultural penetration," Prof Thompson says.

Previous accusations

"What was happening in the courtroom was not that new or all that interesting to people who had been hearing about this Michael Jackson business since 1992 when the first accusation came in."

In the courtroom, there has been some drama amid proceedings that have ranged from the banal to the surreal.

But it has not been compelling enough for most ordinary observers to want to read or hear blow-by-blow accounts every day.

The dramatic moments included appearances by former wife Debbie Rowe, actor Macaulay Culkin and Janet Arvizo, mother of Mr Jackson's teenage accuser Gavin.

TV correspondents have been camped outside the court

Gavin and his brother Star described the alleged abuse - but such detail made many want to squirm in discomfort rather than discuss it with friends.

"There hasn't been a great deal of appetite for some of the quite graphic nature of the evidence that's been coming out," Mr Wrenn says.

"People have been inclined to switch off rather than switch on because it's been a bit too sordid."

For Mr Jackson, keeping up his performance and image became less important as the trial went on, and he chose not to take the stand in what would have been a fascinating finale.

But his image has become so bizarre that few people are shocked by anything he does any more.

And on the other side, the Arvizo family were not easy for the public to relate to or sympathise with either.

Mr Jackson was not the only celebrity missing from the witness stand.

Stars barred

At the start of the trial, we were promised stars including Elizabeth Taylor, Diana Ross and Stevie Wonder would come to defend their friend.

But the judge decided not to allow character witnesses, restricting the celebrity count to just Culkin, Jay Leno and Chris Tucker.

Although the trial has not gripped the global audience, it has still not been far from the top of the news agenda.

Mr Wrenn says viewers wanted to know about the main evidence, but not "a drip, drip, drip daily update".

CNN has "got that bit right", he says. But Prof Thompson adds the media as a whole has still given the story more time than it deserves.

"Even the amount of Michael Jackson coverage that was given was disproportionately large given its importance in any kind of rational journalistic universe," he says.
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Jackson's jury explains decision

The jury in Michael Jackson's child abuse trial said there was simply "not enough" evidence for a guilty verdict.

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Jackson verdict not the end, say media

Britain's Daily Express devotes its entire front page to the story

The drawn, white face of Michael Jackson leaving court a free man after being acquitted of all charges of child molestation gazes with exhausted relief from many papers around the world.

But the story of his acquittal has not dominated the world press in the way it might have been expected to.

That is partly due to the fact that the verdict came late for many Asian and European papers, but it may also reflect the absence of an all-consuming interest in the case, in contrast to the furore over the OJ Simpson trial in the 1990s.

This is despite the fact that more than 2,000 journalists from around the world were present in and around the courtroom for the climax of the trial.

Keep reading here:
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Pundits analyse Jackson verdict

One of the most prominent lawyers in the US has said Michael Jackson was "selectively prosecuted" because of his superstar status.

Jackson's fans have supported him vocally outside the court
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Locals cash in on Jackson trial

With the world's media covering the Michael Jackson trial in the small Californian town of Santa Maria, residents are making the most of the money-making opportunities.

More than 1,000 journalists applied for accreditation to cover the trial

Everyone in this town seems to have caught a bug. Not the kind that causes flu-like symptoms, but the contagious desire to make money from the headline-grabbing trial taking place on their doorsteps.

Santa Maria hotels are enjoying a boom in business during what is normally their slowest time of the year.

As well as its Romantic Getaway Package and a deal on a golfing weekend, one local inn has been advertising its Michael Jackson Trial Special.

This is, after all, the land of opportunity.

Keep reading here:
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What a circus. I am seeing how the media put the comparision to OJ during Michael's trial. I wonder if they will start to compare Murray's trial to OJ or Michael's?

Peace

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