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Official General Prelim Discussion thread

Started by Sinderella, January 04, 2011, 08:46:04 PM

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A summary from inside the court 4/1/11

QuoteCOURT – DAY 1
04/01/11

Judge :- Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor
Prosecutor:  Assistant Deputy D.A. David Walgren
Defence: Ed Chernoff

Family attending:-
Katherine Jackson
LaToya Jackson
Jackie Jackson

Witnesses called:-
Kenny Ortega (Producer/Director – This Is It)
Michael Amir( Michael's Bodyguards)
Faheen Muhammed (Michael's Bodyguard)

Court convened at 9am.

Reports have Murray as usual been 'shepharded' in through the back door and arriving in court looking remarkably relaxed – as he continued to be throughout the whole proceedings.
Fans remained outside behaved in a respectful and dignified manner as the family filed in.

Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.

He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics.

He faulted the doctor in opening statements for performing CPR on Jackson with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface as is generally required.

He also stated that " fabulous" rehearsal two days before his death and was set to go to London in a few days."

Walgren also plans to call several experts whom he said would testify, "there are a number of actions displayed by Dr. Murray that show an extreme deviation from the standard of care."

The prosecutor also said he would call a bodyguard who would testify that Murray ordered him to collect items from Jackson's bedroom

The first witness the prosecution called was "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega

KENNY ORTEGA

Choreographer Kenny Ortega testified that he was summoned to Jackson's home a day after letting the superstar skip rehearsal because he seemed sick.

Dr. Conrad Murray and others suggested Jackson should not have been sent home because he was physically and emotionally fine,Ortega testified, adding he was told not to try to be Jackson's doctor or psychiatrist.

Later in the hearing, Ortega testified that Jackson had gone home early from rehearsals on June 19.

"He didn't look well at all," Ortega testified. "Michael was chilled and soft-spoken. ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."

Ortega also said Jackson appeared lost.

"It was scary. I couldn't put my finger on it," Ortega said. "I said, 'Michael, is this the best place for you to be or do you want to go home and be with your family?' He said, 'Would you be OK with that?' I said, 'OK,' and he left."

The next morning, Ortega said, he was called to Jackson's home, where he was confronted by Murray, Jackson, the star's manager Frank DiLeo, and Randy Phillips, head of AEG, the company producing Jackson's "This is It" comeback tour.

"It quickly became clear that the meeting was about me," Ortega said. "Dr. Murray was upset that I had sent Michael home the night before and didn't allow him to rehearse."

Ortega, who later directed the Jackson concert film "This Is It" based on rehearsal footage, said the pop star was in good spirits throughout most of the rehearsals and was excited about the progress being made in preparation for the London shows.

He recalled his last conversation with Jackson.

"Michael said, 'I know you love me and care about me. You don't have to worry about me. I'm fine,' and he gave me a big hug," Ortega said.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked Ortega if he had ever seen anyone having withdrawals from drugs, and the witness said he had not.

MICHAEL AMIR  WILLIAMS

Another witness, Jackson's personal assistant Michael Amir Williams, described Murray calling him on the day the superstar died and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for Jackson, who was in a bedroom

Williams stated he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM  said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."

Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but didn't ask him to call 911, Williams said.

Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up
 
Williams added that staff were never allowed upstairs.

Williams described the chaotic scene at the mansion and hospital and recalled the heartbreaking moment when DiLeo told Jackson's children their father was dead. Williams said he and Murray and everyone else were crying. He also added that Murray added to the confusion by immediately contradicting Dileo.

He went on to say that at one point just after Michael had been pronounced dead, Murray insisted to Williams that he was going to go back to the house to get some 'cream' that "Michael wouldn't want people to see". Williams immediately contacted staff at the house to 'lock it down'. Also whilst chaos reigned at the hospital the Murray was requesting Williams to get him food!


FAHEEN MUHAMMED

One of Michael's other bodyguards, said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there,"

Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.

Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.

"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.

The session ended at approx 16.30pm.  To be reconvened on 5/1/11 at 09.30am

Travis Payne was also present.
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peggy99

January 05, 2011, 10:30:59 AM #45 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

@Gema.  I totally agree with you.  This is what I was meaning.  The English legal system I understand but when it comes to the US legal system anything can happen.  This was my reason for being sceptical as this would just not happen here.

peggy99

January 05, 2011, 10:33:29 AM #46 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

The other thing I'm having difficulty with is Mrs. Jackson and the rest of the family.  I could understand them bringing proceedings to keep the hoax alive but if and when Michael decides to reappear, then they are going to be in really serious trouble.  I guess my question is ..... why would they do this? knowing the consequences.

Pablito

January 05, 2011, 10:35:08 AM #47 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "peggy99"

why would they do this? knowing the consequences.

wasn't it because Michael's life was in danger?

MissG

January 05, 2011, 10:35:36 AM #48 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "peggy99"

The other thing I'm having difficulty with is Mrs. Jackson and the rest of the family.  I could understand them bringing proceedings to keep the hoax alive but if and when Michael decides to reappear, then they are going to be in really serious trouble.  I guess my question is ..... why would they do this? knowing the consequences.

If Michael ever comes back, the family will play the card of " :o we thought you were dead :o we burried you :o "

La Toya taking things from the home and blaming Grace? for stealing money was also a weird scenario.

("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

peggy99

January 05, 2011, 10:37:55 AM #49 Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 10:38:52 AM by peggy99

if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison.  Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.

SinderellaTopic starter

January 05, 2011, 10:38:22 AM #50 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Day 2-starts at 9.30 west coast time 5.30pm UK time

Updates as and when like I said earlier x

MissG

January 05, 2011, 10:42:00 AM #51 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "peggy99"

if that is the case, then Michael himself would face prison.  Here in the UK he would be arrested immediately.

But, if Michael Bams in...Bahrein for example, he won´t be extradited  :D not forced to come back to USA for "faking your death".
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

nWo

January 05, 2011, 10:46:56 AM #52 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

I've always been one to say that is Murray goes to jail, Michael is realy gone. I know it is too early to call but I feel that Murray has a very hard case to fight. I want Michael Jackson to be alive just as anyone here but the fact is, is that we still do not know what happened on June 25th, 2009. Sure we may have numerology and we might have TS redirects and such but the fact is, is that this whole Hoax is just a theory.

I will continue to keep the faith but hearing how the children were crying for their father while he was being recussatated is so heart breaking and reminds me of my grandfather's last moments in the hospital.

SinderellaTopic starter

January 05, 2011, 11:14:41 AM #53 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "nWo"

I will continue to keep the faith but hearing how the children were crying for their father while he was being recussatated is so heart breaking and reminds me of my grandfather's last moments in the hospital.

But then you have to recall the memorial,FL funeral and other apperances the children made not so long after that day and look at their behaviour,lack of emotion-Prince chewing gum and looking bored,no tears,I am not saying in any way they are cold hearted they are beautiful children and ADORE their father...but that is the point,it would have been impossible to sit and look at a box containing your dad at that young age and not even shed a tear or look sad or mortified that life will never be the same.I mean....it is your daddys funeral,1 tear?
I would have struggled,broke down,and not really have been able to make any sort of speech and I am double their age.It would be my dad...irreplacable and heart breaking to sit through.
Those children did not look heartbroken to me,and i'm sorry to sound harsh but they didn't,they looked bored and then glad it was over with/everyone smiling on the stage at the end.
Michael is their whole world,and has been since the minute they entered this world so to see that on June 25th and then seem so bored during the staples memorial is not fitting IMO.They also got sent away on vacation to Hawaii which I found strange.
I have said since the day I believed that the children give it away,and my opinion hasn't changed.
I went to a funeral a few weeks after that myself of a close family member and it couldn't of been further from what I saw from Michael's family at his.The thought of never seeing him again,having him at parties,on photos,at any sort of point in my life from that day on was truly heart breaking and probably the saddest moment of my life.

It's only day 2,everyone needs to look back and remember what's come before this point in time.Michael needs you,an army needs strength and belief...
Don't break ranks just yet :)

peggy99

January 05, 2011, 11:37:57 AM #54 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

@Gema.  Good point about Bahrain  :D

MashMike

January 05, 2011, 11:48:01 AM #55 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

After reading this i'm almost sure that even if Michael is alive he will not come back, this is not a joke, my faith is weakened :cry: , i don't know, maybe we have gone too far, it's really frustrating, may God help us to reach out to the truth

NO BROKEN BRIDGES CAN TURN US AROUND,CAUSE WHAT WE\'RE SEARCHING FOR, WILL SOON BE FOUND,CAUSE WE\'RE ALMOST THERE, JUST ONE MORE STEP,JUST ONE MORE STEP,DON\'T GIVE UP CAUSE WE\'RE ALMOST THERE

underthemoon

January 05, 2011, 11:54:14 AM #56 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Some say Michael fars for his life and faked his death because of this....but why all the clues ? If i was in real danger and had to fake my life i make it real looking, without any doubt. He could make it, but he makes it his way  ;)

I don't know the US justice and the usual procedure.

I wonder why this long preliminary hearing before it goes to the trial. Was it the same at the trial 2005 with Michael ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing

I read Kenny has spoken under oath....is this practice in that hearings ? I don't think so...

They where at court houses, but not allways the same...so it looks like the legal systems are involved and they use a grey zone....not a real trial, only a hearing, one after the other....maybee not illegal, but looking real for most of the ppl......but not for us  :lol:

Why are allways Katherine Jackson and other family members there ? They are not withness and if Michael would be rearly dead and Murray was guilty, it was such a great stress to look in the eyes of Murray...but they are laughing.....when i would have lost someone i love and i saw the one who could be guilty for the dead, i can't stand this...i would cry and break down....it all come up every time again, with every new hearing date.
How can Katherine stand this in her age ?
They where there in 2005 to support Michael and stabilize him, but here ? I would only hurt if it was real.

It was so obvious what they told us.....Murray don't know how to perfom CPR ????? :lol:  The most naive guy would see that it can't be ! Every nurse could it make, here every car driver had to learn it to get a drivers licens...i had learned it in school and many times later refreshed.....it was the most silly thing in that case and it makes me take a deeper look after the 25.June 2009 and i got to learn much about Michael.
I am so sad that i have not much time to read and translate all the interesting treats.... :cry:
Love you all !

Billie J

January 05, 2011, 11:57:19 AM #57 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Dr conrad murray is a sick joke.
come on,it's kind of funny when u think about:
CPR On a BED, giving CPR with only ONE hand and asking if someone knows CPR(I wonder what he got his medical degree, oh I know in a toy machine)
*omg* this is too much, what is this??it has to be a joke (a hoax).

~Love lives forever~

MJonmind

January 05, 2011, 12:12:47 PM #58 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Thanks Sinderella for posting this and further summaries for us to examine.If we are firmly convinced Michael is alive by the many proofs we have found this 18 months, then we can enjoy the show as perfected art at its finest. MJ is a master and as usual has hired the best to work with him. A good movie leaves you glued to the end, not able to guess how it will go. Besides art he is showing the failure of the justice sytem for so many (he included in 2005), and human nature in judging before the evidence is in. I believe this case will be unprecidented, and even when MJ BAMS I don't think he would be arrested like everyone believes. I believe everything has been taken care of. I've never been so not afraid in my whole life. Let's love and support MJ and each other throughout this adventure!

~Souza~

January 05, 2011, 12:16:18 PM #59 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Great to have an update thread Sinderella, I will make this a global announcement so it will be easier to find.

I don't get why people loose faith that quickly. Of course this story is ridiculous, of course Murray seems to be a murderer. People are condemning him without there even being a body, without there being a believable story and because people say things the media reports, this people believe it. This is a statement because the same happened to Michael. During the 2005 trial Michael's own staff (household, bodyguards) sold FAKE stories to the media. People tend to believe stories like that because they come from people close to him. That doesn't mean they are true. Even after he was acquitted of ALL charges, people still saw him as a child molestor, so the legal system worked, yet the people can't seem to understand, think and research before they judge. That is not only a problem in the US or in Mike's case, but a world wide problem. I believe that this case is designed as a wake-up call. Michael is clearly alive. Who says Paris cried her eyes out? A bodyguard? Like Mike's bodyguards back in 2005 were saying he did inappropriate things to children?

Don't believe anything you hear just because they come from the in-crowd. Sit back, relax and let the man continue his masterwork. We will not be able to understand anything that happens yet, that is why we have been given that many clues that he never died, so that we will be able to reread the huge archive we built together and keep the faith no matter what happens. I believe that all will be revealed in due time, when Mike thinks it's time. I have complete faith in him and his masterplan and I will keep watchin'. WITH popcorn of course, because this is pretty damn entertaining. If day 1 starts with a cardiologist that doesn't know CPR, I can only imagine what kind of ridiculous stories will follow.

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