Official General Prelim Discussion thread

[encino_girl]

I want to comment on the legal implications one could face for faking their own death.

Is it a crime? What are the possible legal issues involved?

Unless you're pretending to be dead in order to play a practical joke on someone (in this case, forget legalities; you need a shrink), there can be serious legal consequences.

Sin has made excellent points; however, even if you do NOT benefit financially from faking your death, such an act can STILL lead you into hot legal waters as it can be seen as a civil wrongdoing. IOW, it is an intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress. You could be held liable for pain and suffering damages and medical (ie. counseling) costs.

As for monetary benefits, if you're found to be alive, you'd be held responsible for the costs of any investigations into the 'death', any proceedings resulting from the investigation, etc. (willful misuse of public resources). It is still fraud if your willful actions cost others money. If your heirs or your estate benefits from your faked death (even unknowingly), they are legal jeopardy as well. If your action placed an undue burden on the state or the executor of your estate, you are civilly liable.

If you assume a new identity, you are in essence, supplying false information to various government agencies (ie. SSA, driver's license agency, etc..). Just the filing of the false death certificate constitutes perjury, which is a criminal offense.

You may voluntarily walk away from your employment, family, and friends. People do it everyday. Generally, they are located by employment/tax records, and so forth.

Faking your death can only be done legally if law enforcement is involved.

The part in bold is something I have been thinking for a while now.  I honestly believe that A LOT of people would try to sue Michael for the emotional stress his death caused them if he is found to be alive.  People may even come together and form a class action law suit.  Unless the Federal Government is involved, I seriously don't think Michael will ever come back.  Aside from all of the haters, who would hate him even more, there would be a lot of new haters (even some of his fans).  Many of these people would try to sue him.  It would be a complete mess.  Not to mention the death threats that he would receive.  He was already receiving death threats and threats of kidnapping his kids before this.  Now people would have another reason to threaten him.  No, if the Feds aren't involved, I don't expect a comeback.  It would be far too risky for Michael and his family.

I would expect nothing less than a class action lawsuit from his so called admirers. People like Karen Faye, Kai Chase, and so on, would lead the lot of them straight to the courthouse. They loved him that much. /sarc

[scorpionchik]

Also,it is only illegal to fake your death if money is made from it ie your spouse claims your life insurance.
It is then fraud,theft,and you will go to prison for it.If the new album said 'in loving memory of Michael Jackson RIP' and people bought it,some based on the fact he was dead then it would be fraud-$$ made from his death.
Even TII dvd,at the start it says June 25th Michael was only days away from going to London,and weeks from the tour' nowhere on that DVD does it say RIP Michael Jackson,rest in peace king of pop,in loving memory of MJ...it only says dedicated to his children.
The estate,family,bravado...do not promote his passing because to make money from it would get them in more than trouble.
His life insurance was cashed in by Sony before hand so nothing illegal there either.
(if anyone proves this to be wrong I will quit my job haha)

Wrong sentence to the core, Sinderella.
I have explained several times about life insurance policy. This is huge wrong statement you made.
Sony, AEG, Estate, no one can cash life insurance policy but beneficiary. Unless you  mean different insurance.I will explain again.

see viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16687

Actually, one can cash out a life insurance policy prior to death. They would only receive the value of the premiums they've paid, along with any maturity of cash benefits (if any). If Sony or AEG, and/or any of its subsidiaries or assigned were the policy owners they were within their legal rights to cash out the policy prior to his 'death'.

You need to differentiate between the policy owner and the beneficiary.

Policy owner - one who purchases the policy on himself or another from an insurer.

Beneficiary - one who benefits financially from the occurrence of insured risk.

You cash out a policy prior to death.

You cash in a policy upon occurrence of death.

Excuse me, but  I am proficient person in the field we are talking about . The policyholder can cash his policy money, not Michael's policy.
The other  thing you should pay attention on when I say IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TYPE OF POLICY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.I see there is a confusion about insurance policy wrongly called "life insurance", whereas initially article was about AEG cashing policy that never happened. Again, before concert there is a type of policy AEG purchased called special event or similar that would cover ACCIDENTAL DEATH OF THE PRINCIPAL, MICHAEL, therefore they called life insurance. But in nature it is NOT a common life insurance policy. The only money AEG could get from that policy if there would have been EVENT CANCELLATION clause. Prior to death policy, if it is Michael as a named insured, no one else can cash but himself before death. I doubt Michael had that kind of policy, AEG can't cash MJ's policy money notbefore nor after his death. Sorry, I am going to stop here, can't explain the whole insurance industry here.

You might need a refresher course.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Quixote]

Michael was cloned.  The Michael on the bed, on the floor, on the coroners table or tables were not the actual Michael.

[MJonmind]

The part in bold is something I have been thinking for a while now.  I honestly believe that A LOT of people would try to sue Michael for the emotional stress his death caused them if he is found to be alive.  People may even come together and form a class action law suit.  Unless the Federal Government is involved, I seriously don't think Michael will ever come back.  Aside from all of the haters, who would hate him even more, there would be a lot of new haters (even some of his fans).  Many of these people would try to sue him.  It would be a complete mess.  Not to mention the death threats that he would receive.  He was already receiving death threats and threats of kidnapping his kids before this.  Now people would have another reason to threaten him.  No, if the Feds aren't involved, I don't expect a comeback.  It would be far too risky for Michael and his family.

I think you make a very good point. Although from looking at old clips of him with fans, looks like many of them could already have sued him for emotional stress. The reasons you gave are an ordinary person's thinking about the logistics of a return. MJ is not an ordinary person, and has already been through the mill. He is no fool, and he has friends in high places. He still has that one dream, and he wants his life to be "The greatest show on earth". He's not done yet.

[RunFaYaLife]

DancingTheDream » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:35 pm

RunFaYaLife wrote:Private Jet?

Michael Jackson's propofol use is discussed here during the History tour.
Dr Neil Ratner

That is misleading. That is a thread i started... and it discussed MJs possible Propofol use and the reasons why Ratner was there.

There is some suggestion MJ used Propofol, but Ratner does not confirm it, but does admit to travelling with him on tour.

Whatever  DTD...
If I had not of posted the link to your story....and posted one about the same thing off of the 'net then someone would have come along and linked to your link here and told me "that has been discussed here."

[MJonmind]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm counting the days.  I know with everything that has been revealed Michael Jackson is alive.  I just hope and pray he does come back.  When he does return, I hope everyone will be as loyal to him then as they are now.....I have always been a believer when it come to Michael.  He is love and goodness.  We have to follow him when he does return.  He is the road to righteousness.  The Army of Love wait for his return.

Welcome ladytmurphy, and I 100% agree with you!

[RunFaYaLife]

Sinderella

By the time he went to the trail he had kicked up his drug habit to dull the pain...because of FEAR , ANGER and loathing...which are emotions he had every right to feel.
By the time it was over he was gone. If you ever look at him when the verdict was read it is glaringly obvious.

How on earth could you possibly know that?That is an outrageous accusation/statement to make.

It is not out outrageous accusation or statement for that matter....it is called common sense.

As far as you saying my comment was biased and something about acting like
"I knew him personally"...I consider that pretty outrageous....
as well as contradictory to what you stated later in your post

A statement from a friend of mine who knows Michael quite well
"it's sad,the people around him are leeches,I overheard things I won't ever repeat but believe me,they did not have his best interests at heart"

Your trusted friend must like to talk because I have read and heard that comment before.

SOooOooo rather than find your whole post "offensive" I found it "quite amusing."

Since I am new here...from the looks of things...it appears you and encino_girl are posting buds....and encino_girl is the resident smart ass.
If that is the case well 2 SNAPS for both of you!....You go Gurls! *sarcasm*

However....
I have zero intentions of playing into your games...
and will continue to state what I have to say in the manner I see fit.
So put your big gurl panties on and both of you suck it up and TRY to be civil about it. K

[Sinderella]

Your trusted friend must like to talk because I have read and heard that comment before.SOooOooo rather than find your whole post "offensive" I found it "quite amusing."
Since I am new here...from the looks of things...it appears you and encino_girl are posting buds....and encino_girl is the resident smart ass.
If that is the case well 2 SNAPS for both of you!....You go Gurls! *sarcasm*

However....
I have zero intentions of playing into your games...
and will continue to state what I have to say in the manner I see fit.
So put your big gurl panties on and both of you suck it up and TRY to be civil about it. K

For someone who has been a fan since the J5 days,you are awfully childish.
How dare you comment on my friend,there are people on here-you not being one of them-who know exactly who I am talking about.You don't know who you're even talking to now,so what gives you the right to question what a friend of mine has to say?
I honestly couldn't care less if you have read it elsewhere,that whole quote is common knowledge,everyone knows they are leeches,but he happened to witness it first hand.
So that to you is amusing?Sorry,but I fail to see the humour there.

This is the first thread Encino_girl and I have ever posted in together.If your conclusion is 'posting buds' because we share the same opinions then that's quite sad.

I think you will find I started this thread your posting in,for people to DISCUSS the trial and anything that surrounds it,to ask questions,get answers and support each other,again how dare you accuse me or summerize my post back to you as'playing games' seriously,grow up.You posted,you got my reply.It offended me.
Don't post if you don't like being replied to or have some problem with people challenging your opinions.That is what the forum is here for.
Saying that you have been a fan for such a long time does not mean you know everything or that it is common knowledge.Common knowledge is a well known fact and if you have something to back up your comment on Michael's drug taking to null the pain during his own trial then by all means,share with the group but if not,then it is merely your OWN opinion and not common knowledge.
Hence the assumption about your post -that you made it sound like you know him.

You are 'new' here correct,you also seem to be rubbing people up the wrong way so instead of replying back in the manner of a 15yr old,why don't you yourself be civil and realise you don't know it all,things aren't common knowledge,it doesn't matter how long you have been a fan,it does not give you the right to be sarcastic,nasty,RUDE,and childish.

We try to respect each other on here,work together and support each other.
If you're going to reply,which,I have no doubt you will,do so in an adult fashion please.

In other news..
Insurance,I will find what I am talking about,and get back to you.

[ROFL]

That would be sad to lock this thread just because some people can't have a debate without attacking each others and calling names ....

[Sinderella]

It would be sad,it's a much needed thread atm.
I haven't called anyone anything that I'm aware of.
I have done nothing but try to provide information,facts,updates and with great difficulty-keep the peace and people feeling positive.

I've said what I need to say on the issue.
Days 5/6 will be up tonight in the locked thread.
Productive not destructive.
There is enough going on without added drama.

[ROFL]

And I was not talking about you, I gave a warning to the one I was talking about
However yes, enough with the drama ... Would be nice to stay on topic

[Datroot]

It would be sad,it's a much needed thread atm.
I haven't called anyone anything that I'm aware of.
I have done nothing but try to provide information,facts,updates and with great difficulty-keep the peace and people feeling positive.

I've said what I need to say on the issue.
Days 5/6 will be up tonight in the locked thread.
Productive not destructive.
There is enough going on without added drama.

Would you mind reminding me where the updates are posted please?

[Sinderella]

Of course,they are at the top of every thread in a locked global thread.

I was busy this week with some other things so sorry for the delay in the last 2days

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17067

x

[loyalfan]

you are doing a superb job here sinderella.....................thankyou xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :D  :D  :D

[Sinderella]

You are welcome D lady !!!
You along with many others are a credit to the forum and to 'fighting the good fight' ox