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Witness: Michael Jackson's doctor seemed not to know CPR

Started by darkchild, January 04, 2011, 08:01:33 PM

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Witness: Michael Jackson's doctor seemed not to know CPR

By Alan Duke,
January 4, 2011 7:07 p.m. EST

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: Dr. Conrad Murray asked guards if they knew CPR, witness says
Dr. Murray delayed calling 911 for 21 minutes, prosecutor says
Jackson was dead before the ambulance arrived, prosector says
Murray's preliminary hearing could last 2 or 3 weeks

Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- Dr. Conrad Murray seemed not to know how to administer cardiopulmonary resuscitation as he waited for paramedics to arrive at Michael Jackson's house, a witness at Murray's preliminary hearing testified Tuesday.

Former Jackson security chief Faheem Muhammed said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said.

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there," he said.


Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.

Jackson's mother, Katherine, sister La Toya, and brothers Randy and Jackie sat in the second row of the courtroom during Tuesday's opening session.

Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.

"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.

"Frank blurted out and said "Your daddy had a heart attack and died," Jackson personal assistant Michael Williams testified.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will decide whether there is "probable cause" to try Murray on an involuntary manslaughter in the pop star's death. The hearing is expected to last two or three weeks, with 20 to 30 witnesses testifying.

Murray waited at least 21 minutes after he found pop star Michael Jackson unresponsive before calling for an ambulance, a prosecutor said at the start of Murray's preliminary hearing Tuesday.

"By all accounts, Michael Jackson was dead in the bedroom at 100 North Carolwood prior to the paramedics' arrival," said Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.

The coroner concluded Jackson died from "acute propofol intoxication," in combination with "the contributory effects of the benzodiazepines," Walgren said.

Propofol is a powerful anesthetic used to "put people under for surgery," and the benzodiazepines were sedatives Murray later acknowledged giving Jackson in the morning before his death, he said.

"Michael Jackson was preparing for one of the most important tours of his life" in the months before his death, Walgren said.

Murray's defense team has hinted it would argue that Jackson was under pressure from the concert promoter, which led him to demand treatments to help him sleep.

Kenny Ortega, who directed Jackson's comeback "This Is It" concerts, was the first of about 30 witnesses to be called by the prosecution.

Ortega described Jackson as "involved, active, participating" at his last rehearsal, which ended just 12 or 14 hours before the singer died.

"He was in a delightful mood and we had an absolutely fantastic day," Ortega testified.

But Ortega described a different, "scary" Michael Jackson at the Staples Center rehearsal on June 19, six nights before his death.

"I just felt that he appeared, you know, really lost," Ortega said. "It was scary. I didn't know what was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it."

Ortega suggested to Jackson that he cut his rehearsal short and go home to rest.

He was called to a meeting at Jackson's home the next day, where he was "scolded" by Murray for having sent Jackson home the night before, Ortega said.

"Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and he asked me not to act like a doctor or psychologist," he said.

Ortega said it was an emotional meeting, but he denied yelling at Jackson. "It wasn't yelling," he said. "It was about caring."

"Michael said 'I know you love me and I know you care about me, but you don't have to worry. I'm fine,'" Ortega said. "It was Michael's voice that calmed me."

Randy Phillips, the CEO of concert promoter AEG Live, and Jackson manager Frank Dileo were at this meeting, along with Murray and Jackson, Ortega said.

A civil lawsuit filed last year by Michael Jackson's mother against AEG Live alleged that Phillips visited Jackson's home on June 18, 2009, to warn "that if Jackson missed any further rehearsals, they were going to 'pull the plug' on the show."

"AEG told Murray that he had to make sure Jackson got to rehearsals," Katherine Jackson's lawsuit charged.

The prosecutor told Judge Pastor that medical experts would testify that Murray, hired as Jackson's personal physician while he prepared for his concert tour, took "a number of actions" that "showed an extreme deviation from the standard of care."

In addition to the CPR performed by Murray that the prosecutor described as "ineffectual," this would include administering propofol in a home setting without proper monitoring. No medical equipment that could have monitored Jackson's pulse and breathing were found in the upstairs bedroom, Walgren said.

The 20-minute delay in calling 911 for paramedics was contrary to standard care, he said.

When paramedics arrived, Murray failed to tell them about the propofol or other drugs given to Jackson that morning, Walgren said. That, too, was contrary to standard care, he said. Murray also neglected to tell emergency room doctors who were trying to revive Jackson at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center about the drugs, Walgren said.

Murray remains free on $75,000 bond.

  Link

Butterflyaway

Yes the pic was fake, just like all of this is fake.

The purpose of the pic is that, it was presented as a real picture of MJ in the ambulance.  Now we have all this information being presented to us of what happened on that day as being real.

So they are saying that MJ was dead already; Yet they still took him to the hospital, and continued to work on him in the ambulance.  This suggests he wasn't dead.

His eyes and mouth were open. yet we have a pic suggesting otherwise. (However they could have very well closed his eyes and mouth)

They point i'm trying to make is that all the information we have already heard, is going to be contradicted by the information we are going to hear.  It's already happening; with not just this story, but with what Kai Chase said also.

Kids not upstairs V.S Kids upstairs

And by the way; I'll leave you guys with this question.  Where was Blanket during all of this?


allforus7

In response to the title: yes , the doctor knew. He just asked for help, as in: does anyone else know CPR.


shelby61

Quote from: "Butterflyaway"

Yes the pic was fake, just like all of this is fake.

The purpose of the pic is that, it was presented as a real picture of MJ in the ambulance.  Now we have all this information being presented to us of what happened on that day as being real.

Kids not upstairs V.S Kids upstairs

And by the way; I'll leave you guys with this question.  Where was Blanket during all of this?

Well, maybe he was heading to the airport as well  ;)

DancingTheDream

They are pumping him in the ambulance, because Dr Murray over-ruled the paramedics and demanded MJ be took to the hospital.   Paramedics dont stop trying to resusitate until death is called.   No one was prepared to make that call at the house.   Apparently the Paramedics wanted to, but Murray over-ruled them.
Its standard practice to keep going with CPR like that, even if paramedics know there is no hope...  they keep going until a doctor rules the time of death.

About the open eyes...  eyes can open at the time of death.  It doesnt mean MJ was awake when he died...  he could have been under the anesthetic and asleep when he died..  but when the time came for his heart to stop and his lungs to stop breathing, his eyes would open as a matter of nature.


fidel

Quote from: "darkchild"

Jackson's mother, Katherine, sister La Toya, and brothers Randy and Jackie sat in the second row of the courtroom during Tuesday's opening session.

i dont understand. was or was randy not there?
Quote

# i will do my best to feel better for tomorrow. Thanks for understanding about 24 hours ago via Mobile Web

i'm sorry to say but i wont be at court today, not feeling well. Make no mistake, i'm not wavering in my drive or fight for justice. about 24 hours ago via Mobile Web

LadyMedic

Quote from: "darkchild"

Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Heehee! That's a little off. Prone means face down. Supine is face up. I think he meant supine... Good God! Doesn't ANYONE involved in this have any idea how to do CPR!?
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie "

Ok, so if he was dead before the ambulance arrived so WHY THE HELL WERE THEY PUMPING HIM IN THE AMBULANCE??? (see ambulance photo)

Because Murray insisted they continue resuscitative measures. They had already done 20 minutes of ACLS protocols and wanted to call it on scene because at that point, attempts were futile. Murray, unfortunately, put himself in a position above the paramedics and told them he would transport with them and they were to continue.

And for the record, I absolutely 100% believe that is a real photo. Oxman didn't confirm anything. The equipment in that photo is entirely current, so it's not old. It may be photoshopped, and that could be a dummy, but everything about that photo aside from that, I have full confidence saying is real (see my blog for more info about that).

Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie "

Its standard practice to keep going with CPR like that, even if paramedics know there is no hope... they keep going until a doctor rules the time of death.

This is not true. Well, ish. If you're implying that they had to listen to Murray, you're correct. If you're saying that paramedics must continue until a MD calls it, that's not correct. Nearly every EMS system allows paramedics to presume the patient on scene. They don't have to even begin CPR if they believe it will be futile. Some places need to call an MD from the scene and tell them they have a patient that is dead and they're not starting CPR, and the MD just gives the time of death. This would have been the case had Murray not instructed them to continue. He had CPR performed with no positive changes, so they were going to stop and call the MD at the hospital to get a time of death.


MeandMyShadow

Quote from: "DancingTheDream"

They are pumping him in the ambulance, because Dr Murray over-ruled the paramedics and demanded MJ be took to the hospital.   Paramedics dont stop trying to resusitate until death is called.   No one was prepared to make that call at the house.   Apparently the Paramedics wanted to, but Murray over-ruled them.
Its standard practice to keep going with CPR like that, even if paramedics know there is no hope...  they keep going until a doctor rules the time of death.

About the open eyes...  eyes can open at the time of death.  It doesnt mean MJ was awake when he died...  he could have been under the anesthetic and asleep when he died..  but when the time came for his heart to stop and his lungs to stop breathing, his eyes would open as a matter of nature.

Maybe they don't all do it that way.  My mother had a heart attack and they worked on her at the house, while getting her into the ambulance.  I road in the front to the hospital.  They were not pumping her.  And yet, there was not a doctor there to declair her dead.  I was totally clueless at the time that she was acutally dead.


LadyMedic

Quote from: "MeandMyShadow"

Quote from: "DancingTheDream"

They are pumping him in the ambulance, because Dr Murray over-ruled the paramedics and demanded MJ be took to the hospital.   Paramedics dont stop trying to resusitate until death is called.   No one was prepared to make that call at the house.   Apparently the Paramedics wanted to, but Murray over-ruled them.
Its standard practice to keep going with CPR like that, even if paramedics know there is no hope...  they keep going until a doctor rules the time of death.

About the open eyes...  eyes can open at the time of death.  It doesnt mean MJ was awake when he died...  he could have been under the anesthetic and asleep when he died..  but when the time came for his heart to stop and his lungs to stop breathing, his eyes would open as a matter of nature.

Maybe they don't all do it that way.  My mother had a heart attack and they worked on her at the house, while getting her into the ambulance.  I road in the front to the hospital.  They were not pumping her.  And yet, there was not a doctor there to declair her dead.  I was totally clueless at the time that she was acutally dead.

We stop doing CPR en route for a few reasons. Because she was transported, they wouldn't just stop doing CPR unless you had a good deal of time to the hospital and she didn't improve at all. As a result of the CPR and especially cardiac medications that are given, sometimes a pulse becomes present. This doesn't mean the person will survive, and it doesn't mean they won't become pulseless again. While they have a pulse, they won't be doing CPR. Recently I had a patient in refractory V fib. Essentially what was happening was she had no pulse, then had a pulse, then lost the pulse, then regained a pulse, then lost a pulse, and regained a pulse. I've actually had this happen on a fair amount of codes. Unfortunately, very few actually survive even if a pulse is regained. I've done CPR many, many times and have had less than a handful of patients survive. I'm so sorry for what happened to your Mom.

rayvyn

Quote from: "Butterflyaway"

Yes the pic was fake, just like all of this is fake.

The purpose of the pic is that, it was presented as a real picture of MJ in the ambulance.  Now we have all this information being presented to us of what happened on that day as being real.

So they are saying that MJ was dead already; Yet they still took him to the hospital, and continued to work on him in the ambulance.  This suggests he wasn't dead.

His eyes and mouth were open. yet we have a pic suggesting otherwise. (However they could have very well closed his eyes and mouth)

They point i'm trying to make is that all the information we have already heard, is going to be contradicted by the information we are going to hear.  It's already happening; with not just this story, but with what Kai Chase said also.

Kids not upstairs V.S Kids upstairs

And by the way; I'll leave you guys with this question.  Where was Blanket during all of this?

It's not unusual to continue CPR. It happened to my brother-in-law. Before they took him away in the ambulance, he was clearly not breathing. EMT still tried to revive him. Once he was at the ER, the doctor also tried reviving him, but to no avail. We lost a wonderful man that day.


vaudevillianveteran

I don't quite understand this. The preliminary hearing are going on now. When is the actual trial happening? I dont understand how law/court stuff works at all. When will it end? Do we have a time line?


MJhasSpoken

Just when you thought this hoax was going smooth for a while things start to get bumpy again...anyone who as at least done first aid knows how to perform CPR...I remember 2 weeks after Michael 'died' I did a first aid course and the first aid person said anybody who has done first aid or is a doctor KNOWS that you put the person on a flat surface (ground) not on the bed or you can damage their ribcage.


gwynned

This really is a circus.  Next we're going to hear testimony of Murray saying, "Is there a doctor in the house?"  Murray is out on $75,000 bail.  Seems a pittance for ending the life of the greatest celebrity.

How ridiculous is this going to have to get before people start asking questions???????  Here's a tidbit from an AP article:

Quote

They heard Alvarez testify that he helped Murray bag the medicine and saw an unidentified "white milky substance" in the bottom of an intravenous bag.

"He just grabbed a handful of bottles, or vials, and he instructed me to put them in a bag," Alvarez testified, adding that Murray also told him to place an intravenous bag into another sack.

After collecting everything and bagging it, Alvarez said, Murray told him to call 911.

At this point, Michael is 'turning blue' according to Senneff, another witness.  Murray sounds more like one of the 3 Stooges posing as a doctor, frantically hiding the evidence of his seemingly massive screw up.

Has anyone else noticed that the ONLY time we have actually heard Dr. Murray speak was that first Youtube video (which probably wasn't him after all).


LadyMedic

Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"

Just when you thought this hoax was going smooth for a while things start to get bumpy again...anyone who as at least done first aid knows how to perform CPR...I remember 2 weeks after Michael 'died' I did a first aid course and the first aid person said anybody who has done first aid or is a doctor KNOWS that you put the person on a flat surface (ground) not on the bed or you can damage their ribcage.

You'll damage the ribcage anyway, especially using a hard surface. But that is expected to happen. You're absolutely correct. I have such an issue with Murray apparently performing CPR on a bed. That's been the biggest thing that has annoyed the crap out of me!
http://lady-medic.blogspot.com/2010/11/ ... range.html - Number 3 is where I discuss it.


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