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The thing that is fishy to me are not the facts surrounding the condom catheter or the incontenace pad, or that he might have been naked from the waist down- i know that all is possible.  
What I have a problem with is the question another poster brought up, which was ignored. WHO and WHY would anyone take a picture of MJ on the floor? He did not die ( declared dead) in his house. So, there would  be no oportunity for evidence pictures. Hence I tend to believe that there are no such pictures.  
And yes, the parallels to 1992/3 and 2005 are glaring.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"Hope is both the earliest and the most indispensable virtue inherent in the state of being alive. If life is to be sustained hope must remain, even where confidence is wounded, trust impaired."
Erik H. Erikson

Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Quote from: "PeaceLoveHappiness"
My personal feeling is that he wasn't clothed, but then someone put pants on him before leaving the home out of respect for Michael.

If that is the case, then this would have been reported in the autopsy report. It isn't, as I previously posted Michael is reported as unclothed, with no clothing to examine.

This then brings up the issue of identifying him with his driver's license, as the autopsy report indicates because he didn't have it on him, or in his clothes (he was naked) and he was not able to tell anyone where it was (he was supposedly dead).
The staff had been dismissed from the house, no reports of family members returning, to the home to get his wallet, prior to the identification of the body etc.
And it isn't something that seems to be a priority when an ambulance is taking someone to the hospital, in an effort to save their life, especially when everyone is in a panic.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
The thing that is fishy to me are not the facts surrounding the condom catheter or the incontenace pad, or that he might have been naked from the waist down- i know that all is possible.  
What I have a problem with is the question another poster brought up, which was ignored. WHO and WHY would anyone take a picture of MJ on the floor? He did not die ( declared dead) in his house. So, there would  be no oportunity for evidence pictures. Hence I tend to believe that there are no such pictures.  
And yes, the parallels to 1992/3 and 2005 are glaring.

Exactly.  Paramedics are not evidence gatherers.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

MJonmind

I know this is slightly off topic but I feel MJ was forever drawing comparisons to Christ, and this is no exception. This was one source but all the others I found said the same thing. Pictures always show a loincloth but that is fiction.

Quote
Yes, he was fully naked, and so were the other two convicts. Though all forms of public nudity is against Hebrew custom, the perverted Romans seemed to have delighted in it, especially when executing condemned prisoners. Most historians say flogging and beating a convict, then stripping him naked is part of the Roman's procedure before and during crucifixion. Most Catholic crucifix and paintings depict Him wearing a loin cloth because the Vatican deemed it improper to show Jesus' nakedness. It's a rather "sensitive" issue (pun intended).

Read more: Was Jesus naked while on the cross? | Answerbag You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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xxmjxx

Its saying on sky news here in the uk,that paris and prince walked into the bedroom,and the bodyguard,shouted get them out,dont let them see him like this,the bodyguard told the children,i will take care of this. :?  :?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

curls

Oh dear God, we're only 2 days in on the preliminary hearing and already we have rumours, dubious twitters, photos/no photos and so many inconsistencies that there's no way we can believe anything. Mainstream media reports I've read today couldn't even get the names of the Jackson family members who attended court yesterday correct (but at least they're reporting on it, so I suppose that's progress).

People's different perceptions and interpretations of various bits of information are so coloured by whether they have 'hoax', 'drug-addict', 'dead', or 'murdered' glasses on that I'm finding most opinions no better than one-sided tabloid judgemental trash. (I'm not talking specifically about people here, by the way, just in general, everywhere I've visited!) Many commentators have made their minds up and are choosing only to comment on the bits that fit their theories.

I want to read court transcripts of EVERYTHING that's said in that courtroom, not someone's subjectively selected version.

So I'll carry on watching, reading and listening ...... heaven knows what it'll be like if this goes to trial. I need to conserve my energy!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
Quote from: "PeaceLoveHappiness"
My personal feeling is that he wasn't clothed, but then someone put pants on him before leaving the home out of respect for Michael.

If that is the case, then this would have been reported in the autopsy report. It isn't, as I previously posted Michael is reported as unclothed, with no clothing to examine.

This then brings up the issue of identifying him with his driver's license, as the autopsy report indicates because he didn't have it on him, or in his clothes (he was naked) and he was not able to tell anyone where it was (he was supposedly dead).
The staff had been dismissed from the house, no reports of family members returning, to the home to get his wallet, prior to the identification of the body etc.
And it isn't something that seems to be a priority when an ambulance is taking someone to the hospital, in an effort to save their life, especially when everyone is in a panic.


OK.  I had forgotten that it was the AR that said he wasn't wearing pants.  Now I can't even recall where I read that he was wearing pants.  Not wearing pants makes more sense to me if he was indeed wearing a condom catheter.

Regarding the lack of ID, I suppose there is a possibility that Michael kept a copy of his ID in one of the Escalades in the event of an accident.  I know someone who has a motorcycle and he used to keep a copy of his own license and his friend's license (he would give the friend a ride to and from work) in the saddlebags in case they were ever in an accident and their wallets were ruined on impact.

Regarding putting pants on Michael, I think it would have just been done out of respect knowing that Paps would be lurking outside.  Although you would think that it would have been quicker to just throw a blanket over him.

@Grace - I agree that the US judicial system can be flawed.  Many cases really do just come down to which legal team is the most believable and presents the best case.  Having said that though, it could be worse.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Yes, this is definitely gonna be a thriller..  ;)
I want the transcripts too.  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge" ~ Albert E.

Quote from: "PeaceLoveHappiness"
Quote from: "Kim"
I work in a nursing home and there are people who are incontinent, but never naked from the waist! They wear a diaper.


There is a difference between an incontinent person needing to wear a diaper because they can't control themselves, and a person having an incontinence pad placed beneath them, or a condom catheter (for a man) being placed on the penis when the person is under anesthesia.  IF Michael was really being put under with propofol, he most likely had an incontinence pad placed beneath him, a condom catheter placed on his penis, or both.

IF he really needed CPR, and was taken from the bed to the floor, it is quite possible that if he was wearing a condom catheter, it would have slipped off while he was being moved, thereby exposing his penis.  With this in mind, a potential photograph taken of him on the floor would most likely have captured his penis along with the rest of his body.  And IF there really is a photograph and it was shown in court, then yes his penis would have been shown.

EDIT - And since some folks are claiming that Michael was already dead when the paramedics arrived, the prosecution may very well be treating the bedroom as a crime scene.

Unfortunately naked photos are shown in court all of the time when a victim is found naked.  This is simply the reality of crime scenes.  When a woman is raped and murdered, she is almost always found naked, and YES those photos are shown in the courtroom.  It isn't disrespectful, but rather necessary, particularly in the actual trial where the prosecution wants to leave a lasting impression on jurors.

You are correct about taking pictures at a crime scene. IF the parmedics or police knew Michael had died in the bedroom, photos would be taken before the body is removed. I had a neighbor who 2 weeks ago hung himself. The police took many photos before the medical examiners office removed the body from the house. the pictures were taken as evidence incase it wasnt a suicide.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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The theater has just begun, we don`t know much yet apart from quite some chaos and discrepancies as well as things we remember too well from MJs other trials, things will have to unfold. I will not rely on twitting-screaming people that I do not know.Stay tuned, stay calm ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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liegi

The Rolling Stone article about MJ's death stated that he was wearing black shiny pants (in the hospital).
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "karen924"
Quote from: "PeaceLoveHappiness"
Quote from: "Kim"
I work in a nursing home and there are people who are incontinent, but never naked from the waist! They wear a diaper.


There is a difference between an incontinent person needing to wear a diaper because they can't control themselves, and a person having an incontinence pad placed beneath them, or a condom catheter (for a man) being placed on the penis when the person is under anesthesia.  IF Michael was really being put under with propofol, he most likely had an incontinence pad placed beneath him, a condom catheter placed on his penis, or both.

IF he really needed CPR, and was taken from the bed to the floor, it is quite possible that if he was wearing a condom catheter, it would have slipped off while he was being moved, thereby exposing his penis.  With this in mind, a potential photograph taken of him on the floor would most likely have captured his penis along with the rest of his body.  And IF there really is a photograph and it was shown in court, then yes his penis would have been shown.

EDIT - And since some folks are claiming that Michael was already dead when the paramedics arrived, the prosecution may very well be treating the bedroom as a crime scene.

Unfortunately naked photos are shown in court all of the time when a victim is found naked.  This is simply the reality of crime scenes.  When a woman is raped and murdered, she is almost always found naked, and YES those photos are shown in the courtroom.  It isn't disrespectful, but rather necessary, particularly in the actual trial where the prosecution wants to leave a lasting impression on jurors.

You are correct about taking pictures at a crime scene. IF the parmedics or police knew Michael had died in the bedroom, photos would be taken before the body is removed. I had a neighbor who 2 weeks ago hung himself. The police took many photos before the medical examiners office removed the body from the house. the pictures were taken as evidence incase it wasnt a suicide.


Wow, sorry to hear about your neighbor!  This has me thinking now that if the paramedics really believed that Michael was already dead, maybe they took the pics in case they would be needed in the future.  It has been stated that Murray is the one who insisted Michael be taken to the hospital, even though the paramedics didn't think there was anything else that could be done.  I don't know if paramedics carry cameras or not, but that is a possibility.  Or one of the bodyguards could have taken pics for the same reason.  IF Michael really did die, I would actually think that either one of the bodyguards or one of the paramedics would have snapped a few pics for evidence.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Grace

I think only very few of what is being said is indeed true.
I think Michael was not even at the house that day.
Nothing of what is being discussed really happened IMO - that's why everybody is executing very vivid imaginations - how do you want to refer to something that was not real? You knit your phantasies around "how it could have happened". So that's individual colouring or let's say "the forest is growing where you don't find the single tree anymore." All that happens on purpose and I have to laugh so much. This is the best party I ever was invited to.

This is planting a huge garden of flowers to make it impossible to define any other dominating colour but "overall green". In the film noir episodes the murderer is some house boy or grey nanny or the gardener and I'd bet it will not be much different this time. Some very surprising twisted end is ahead that will make so much sense and we will all ask "why didn't we think of this before".
Some may have a very concrete image in their mind of how the scene looked like - that's why we were shown all the inside photos of the house btw. to create the ambience LOL

The strongest motivation for a murder is personal trauma and hurt, especially when it occured by forced humiliation. I would have died too if any police would have forced me to show my privacy. Of course Michael "killed" himself the day he decided to take his sabbatical.

Btw it's remarkable that tabloids are not taking the prelim on page 1 today - I have the feeling they are silent observers for the time being. Maybe they smell a fake now. I was astonished to hear only very few information about the CM prelim from the press.

Stay calm, hold Michael's hand, it will all be alright.

Oh and the song "Cream" of Prince for the best of class is giving really good vibes...

Quote
This is it
It's time for u to go to the wire
U will hit
Cuz u got the burnin' desire
It's your time (Time)
U got the horn so why don't u blow it
U are fine (Fine)
U're filthy cute and baby u know it

Cream
Get on top
Cream
U will cop
Cream
Don't u stop
Cream
Sh-boogie bop

U're so good
Baby there ain't nobody better (Ain't nobody better)
So u should
Never, ever go by the letter (Never ever)
U're so cool (Cool)
Everything u do is success
Make the rules (Rules)
Then break them all cuz u are the best

Yes u are

Cream
Get on top
Cream
U will cop
Cream
Don't u stop
Cream
Sh-boogie bop

Look up in the air, it's your guitar

Do your dance
Why should u wait any longer?
Take a chance
It could only make u stronger
It's your time (It's your time)
U got the horn so why don't u blow it (Go on and blow it)
U're so fine (U're so fine)
U're filthy cute and baby u know it (U know it)

Come on
Cream
Get on top
Cream
U will cop
Cream
Don't u ever stop
Cream
Sh-boogie bop

Cream
Cream
Cream
Sh-boogie bop

Cream
Cream
Right there
Cream
Don't u stop
Cream
Sh-boogie bop

Boogie
;)
Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 03:49:21 PM by Grace
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Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

I cant remember, when did the police finally get involved? When was the first time they went to the house? he following day after the family went through the  house?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "karen924"
I cant remember, when did the police finally get involved? When was the first time they went to the house? he following day after the family went through the  house?

I think it was june 27th..as far as i can remember..and the family was there to pick up his stuff on the 26th
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Even after all this time
The sun never says to the earth,
"You owe Me."

Look what happens with
A love like that,
It lights the Whole Sky.

 

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