avatar_~Souza~

TS and all else

Started by ~Souza~, November 28, 2010, 04:58:01 PM

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Because there are many threads now about TS I decided to give this its own, so I don't have to repeat myself.

I see some people trying to debunk TS on assumption and speculation and I don't see many good arguments or calculations. Because people claimed before that I followed TS blindly, I took his challenge a while ago to see what the chance was that all the numerology is just a coincidence, let me repost my calculations right here:

Quote from: "~Souza~"
Because some people accuse me of blindly following TS without questioning, I decided to take the challenge and calculate the chance of coincidence. I can see the chance is astronomical small without having to calculate, but maybe others are not that good with math, so here it's all calculated so you can see why I am certain it's not all coincidence. The person that gets this chance  under 1 in a million, will receive an additional $999 from me. I wish you good luck!  :lol:

Quote from: "TS"$999 Reward!!!

On the one year anniversary of 9-9-09, this is a very fitting time to offer this $999 reward. The reward will go to the first person who can show mathematically and statistically, that there is one chance in any number less than a million (1 chance in 999,999 or 1 chance in 500,000, etc), that all the MJ numerology listed in step 3 below happened by chance.

Anyone can accept this offer, but they must do each of the following 5 steps.

Step 1: Carefully read each of the following three times: all of this post, and TIAI Updates #4b, #4c, #5a, #5d, #6 (especially #6-8 & #6-9).

Step 2: Start a post (in the TIAI subforum) titled: "$999 Claim, By John Doe [don't use this name, use your own username]". Include in your post steps 3 and 4, below; also, any discussion regarding step 5 should be done in this same thread.

Step 3: Show your calculations for each separate numerology (a. to l.) happening by chance {for an example, see the 12:21 phone call time, viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994}.
Be sure to include:
a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21
b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7
c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7
d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)
e. 77 days from "death" to 9-9-09
f. 7 days from "burial" to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)
g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999
h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998
i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999
j. 777 + 999 = 1776
k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111
l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)

Step 4: Show your calculations for the combination of all these numerologies happening by chance. Your answer here at step 4 must be 1 chance in 999,999 or less (because one chance in a million or more does not qualify for the reward).

Step 5: Allow me to question/challenge your calculations.

If you can defend your calculations and statistics by answering my questions/challenges: then PM your mailing address to me, and I will send you $999 (U.S. dollars) via Western Union!

a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21

At this time we didn't hear anything yet, the 911 call started the hoax. If he planned on doing the hoax on June 25 and the time is just a coincidence, we must keep in mind the following:

June 25 had 24 hours. 24 hours are 1,440 minutes which equals 86,400 seconds. The chance the 911 call was placed at exactly 12:21:04 is therefore 1 in 86,400. But the seconds are not planned, which leaves us to 1 chance in 1,440. But we need to devide that in 2, because the clock will show us 12:21 (which is the 'coincidence' here) twice every day. so we write down for our final calculation: 1/720. Let's go on...


b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7

Still keeping in mind that he planned his death on June 25, there are 11 hours and 39 minutes left, which equals 699 minutes. That means that it is a chance of 1 in 699. 2:26 is chosen iMO because February 26 was the date that Thriller became #1, but let's forget about that. He also could have chosen 0 hours and 7 minutes, 1 hour and 6 minutes, 3 hours and 4 minutes, 4 hours and 3 minutes 5 hours and 2 minutes, 6 hours and 1 minute and 7 hours and 0 minutes. In that case I am not taking into account the likeliness of dying withing a certain amount of time after you had a cardiac arrest. That means that after 12:21 there were 8 times of death that would reduce to 7. So the chance that the hour and minute would make 7 is 8/699.


c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7

This one is quite simple, the chance that a 4 digit number reduces to 7 is 1 in 9 (it can never reduce to 0). But here we have the 2:26 back. Let's see what happens if we use the other 7 possible times of death and add them to 1,221, to make sure my calculation above (point b) is correct and that 2:26 as a number should not make a difference, or that I need to change 8/699.

1,221 + 1,228 (12:28 is 0 hours and 7 minutes after 12:21) = 2,449. 2+4+4+9=19, 1+9=10, 1+0=1
1,221 + 127 (1:27 is 1 hour and 6 minutes after 12:21) = 1,348. 1+3+4+8=16, 1+6=7
1,221 + 325 (3:25 is 3 hours and 4 minutes after 12:21) = 1,546. 1+5+4+6=16, 1+6=7
1,221 + 424 (4:24 is 4 hours and 3 minutes after 12:21) = 1,645. 1+6+4+5=16, 1+6=7
1,221 + 523 (5:23 is 5 hours and 2 minutes after 12:21) = 1,744. 1+7+4+4=16, 1+6=7
1,221 + 622 (6:22 is 6 hours and 1 minutes after 12:21) = 1,843. 1+8+4+3=16, 1+6=7
1,221 + 721 (7:21 is 7 hours and 0 minutes after 12:21) = 1,942. 1+9+4+2=16, 1+6=7

So conclusion is that besides 2:26, 6 other times would make 77. All besides 7 minutes after 12:21. That does mean my former calculation under point b needs to be changed to 7/699.


d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)

The chance that this is 777 is as follows:

chance that it is the 7th day: 1/31 (July has 31 days)
Chance that it is the 7th month: 1/12 (a year has 12 months)
chance that it is 7 years after 2002 will is impossible to calculate, because there are endless years after 2002. But to calculate with something, let's reduce the number of years to 7, which makes it more likely to be 7 years. Of course we all know that's not true, but I don't want to calculate with big numbers so people can say later that I cheated. So 1/7.
Chance that it is a full moon: 1/27 (It takes roughly 27 days for the moon to travel around the earth)

Chance that this is all happening at once: 1/31 x 1/12 x 1/7 x 1/27 = 1/70,308


e. 77 days from "death" to 9-9-09

Again, there are endless days before 9/9, but let's focus on the year he chose to 'die': 2009. September 9 is the 252nd day of the year, that means that there are 251 other days before 9/9 in 2009. The chance that the day of death is 77 to 9/9 is therefore 1/251. Because we can calculate with inclusive reckoning, we should again divide this by 2, because June 24 would be 77 days from 9/9 as well, without inclusive reckoning. So we note for our calculation a chance of 2/251


f. 7 days from "burial" to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)

Between 'death' and 9-9-09 are 75 possible burial dates (77 days -/- June 25 itself and -/- 9/9 itself) So the chance that the burial is 7 days to 9-9-09 is 1/75. But not really, because again we should take inclusive reckoning into account, which makes the chance 2/75.


g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999

There are 3 vowels in This Is It, all the exsisting vowels in the alfabet are a, e, i, o, u & y, so 6 in total. The chance that all 3 vowels in This Is Is are one and the same (i) is therefore 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 = 1/216. In this scenario I am not looking at all at sentences that are possible, or combinations of letters to make a sentence, because my math doesn't reach that far and the chance would only become smaller. So in this case the chance that all 3 vowels in a sentence with 3 vowels in total are one and the same is 1/216.


h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998

Mike chose himself to have an album/tour name like this, with 3 letters in CAPS. Again this is impossible form me to calculate because my brain is frying already, but let's say he could have chosen any 3 letters in caps in any kind of title and that this is just a coincidence.

Let's see first which combinations would make 1998:

HIS (backwards) 8-9-19
SIH 19-9-8
HIIA (backwards) 8-9-9-1
AIIH 1-9-9-8

4 different combinations are possible, although as you can see only one makes sense but I am only looking at chances here and not if words make sense, but to make the chance as likely as possible, let's calculate with the 3-letter-words.

The chance he choses 3 letters (consonant - vowel - consonant) that makes 1998 either forward or backwards:

First letter is a consonant and makes 19 or 8: 2/20 (20 consonants in total, only the H and S qualify)
Second letter is a vowel and makes 9: 1/6 (6 vowels in total, only the I makes 9)
First letter is a consonant and makes 19 or 8: 2/20 (20 consonants in total, only the H and S qualify)

So the chance that those 3 letters combined make 1998 is 2/20 x 1/6 x 2/20 = 4/2400 which reduces to 1/600.


i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999



The chance that a 4-digit number makes 999 when you calculate with this formula is 1/10,000 (0000-9,999) because 1998 is the only one that makes 999 with this formula. Try it with every 4-digit number yourself. But because people might object and say that 0000 is simply nothing and 0009 and 0999 for example would reduce to 9 and 999 and is not really a 4-digit number, let's say the chance is 1/9,000 (1,000-9,999).


j. 777 + 999 = 1776

The chance that 777 + 999 makes 1,776 is simply 1, but that's not the point. In the hoax we are constantly reminded or 3-digit numbers like 111, 333 etc. and both 777 and 999 used repeatedly in relation to TII. But let's see what the chances are that 2 3-digit numbers (3 the same numbers) makes 1,776. The only possibility is 888+888 (reminds me of Elvis...)

All the other 3-digit numbers with 3 the same numbers are:  111, 222, 333, 444, 555 and 666. This means that there are 81 different combinations possible (9x9). Only 3 combinations make 1776 (777+999, 888+888 & 999+777). So the chance that a combination would make 1776 is 3/81.


k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111

The duration time of the movie is 111 minutes, the other numbers are constantly repeating throughout the hoax. Let's say (to make the chance as likely as possible again) that 1,998 is the last number, that there are no other numbers after 1,998. What are the chances that the 7 numbers most dominant in the hoax are all divisible by 111? That would be 1,998 to the power 7 = Approx. 1/127,106,684,000,000,000,000,000 (I might have missed one or two 0's...)


l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)

This is a hard one. I will have to calculate myself because I seriously can't remember the formula for this. Let's start with Elvis. What is the chance that Elvis would 'die' on a date that equals his reference to 2001 during his last concerts? For that I have checked the statistics for the avarage average life expectancy for men.  

"In the U.S., average life expectancy at birth is about 79 years for women and about 72 years for men." http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/199 ... veLon.html

So according to this Elvis had a life expectancy of 72 years from 1/8/1935 on. There are 26,663 days in between his birth date (1/8/1935) and his expected day of death (1/8/2008) http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duratio ... =1&y2=2008. But the chance his death date would reduce to 2001 with this formula (month+date+year) is not 1/26,663, because there are more dates that make 2001. We also need to reduce the amount of days, because he was clearly not dead yet when he sang it. Let's see how many days are in between June 26, 1977 (date of his last concert) and his expected death date (1/8/2008). There are 11,153 days in between. http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duratio ... =1&y2=2008

So we already reduced it to 1/11,153. But all dates after 1/1/1999 won't work, because this is the last date that makes 2001, all other dates will be higher. So we can reduce it to 1/7,859 http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duratio ... =1&y2=1999

Here is where my math education is failing me, because I can't remember how I can find out in a quick formula to see what other dates would make 2001, so I need to do it like this, starting at June 26, 1977:

1977
2001 - 1977 = 24. Dates that make 24 after June 26, 1977 are 7/17, 8/16, 9/15, 10/14, 11/13 and 12/12. So 1977 had 6 dates that reduced to 2001.

1978
2001 - 1978 = 23. Dates that make 23 in 1978 are 1/22, 2/21, 3/20, 4/19, 5/18, 6/17, 7/16, 8/15, 9/14, 10/13, 11/12 and 12/11. So 1978 had 12 dates that reduced to 2001. This will keep this way from 1979 to 1988, because 2001 -/- one of those dates makes 13 (2001-1988) or more, which means all months have a possible date, with 12/1/1988 being the last date in December. After that each year will loose a date, for example 2001-1989=12, so 12/1 is not possible anymore, and 2001-1990=11, which means in that year both November and December have no possible date. So that means:

1979: 12 dates
1980: 12 dates
1981: 12 dates
1982: 12 dates
1983: 12 dates
1984: 12 dates
1985: 12 dates
1986: 12 dates
1987: 12 dates
1988: 12 dates
1989: 11 dates
1990: 10 dates
1991: 9 dates
1992: 8 dates
1993: 7 dates
1994: 6 dates
1995: 5 dates
1996: 4 dates
1997: 3 dates
1998: 2 dates
1999: 1 date

That means that in total there were 204 dates between June 26, 1977 and January 1, 1999. So that means that the chance that Elvis would coincidentally die on a date that would make 2001 with the formula that is used, is 204/7,859

Same calculation for Mike, with October 15, 1997 being the starting date (last HIStory gig) and August 29, 2040 being the end date (expected death).

1997
2040 - 1997 = 43. Dates that make 43 after October 15, 1997? Just one: 12/31.

1998
2040 - 1998 = 42. Dates that make 42 in 1998 is only 12/30, because 11/31 doesn't exsist.

1999
2040 - 1999 = 41. Dates that make 41 in 1999 are 12/29 and 11/30, 2 Dates

2000
2040 - 2000 = 40. Dates: 12/28, 11/29 & 10/30. 3 Dates

2001
2040 - 2001 = 39. Dates: 12/27, 11/28, 10/29 & 9/30. 4 Dates

2002
2040 - 2002 = 38. Dates: 12/26, 11/27, 10/28, 9/29, 8/30. 5 Dates

Every year a date will be added. In 2008 Februari should be added, but since Februari only had 29 days in 2008, and 2040-2008=32, February doesn't have a possible date in 2008, but January is added (1/31).

2003: 6 Dates
2004: 7 Dates
2005: 8 Dates
2006: 9 Dates
2007; 10 Dates
2008: 11 Dates
2009: 11 Dates (2040 - 2009 = 31 and because 2009 was not a leap year, there was no 2/29, so again no possible date in February)
2010: 12 Dates

Then each year will have again 12 possible dates, until 2027. So after 2010 there are 27 x 12 = 324 more possible dates.

2040 - 2028 = 12, so from this year on we will loose a date each year, because 12/0 does not exsist.

2028: 11 Dates
2029: 10 Dates
2030: 9 Dates
2031: 8 Dates
2032: 7 Dates
2033: 6 Dates
2034: 5 Dates
2035: 4 Dates
2036: 3 Dates
2037: 2 Dates
2038 1 Date (1/1/2038 as last possible date)

That means that in total there are 480 possible dates between October 15, 1997 and January 1, 2038. In total there are 14,688 days between those 2 dates http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duratio ... =1&y2=2038, so the chance that Mike would coincidentially die on a date that would make 2040 is 480/14,688


This means that the chance that both Elvis & MJ would die on a date that made the year referred to on their concert intro, would be 204/7,859 x 480/14,688 = 97,920/115,432,992



Conclusion: I did not win the $999, because the chance that all the above were merely coincidences, is astronomical little:

Chance of a:  1/720
Chance of b: 7/699
Chance of c: 1/10
Chance of d: 1/70308
Chance of e:  2/251
Chance of f: 2/75
Chance of g: 1/216
Chance of h: 1/600
Chance of i: 1/9000
Chance of j: 1/81
Chance of k: 1/127106684000000000000000 (forget about this one for a second)
Chance of l: 97920/115432992

1/720 x 7/699 x 1/9 x 1/70308 x 2/251 x 2/75 x 1/216 x 1/600 x 1/9000 x 3/81 x 97920/115432992 =
8225280/65381426700000000000000000000000000 or in other words a chance of

0,000000000000000000000000000125804535% (http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=822 ... =&gs_rfai=)

IF we also take point k into account, the chance would be even smaller:

8225280/65381426700000000000000000000000000 x 1/127106684000000000000000 =
8225280/8310416340000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

So actually the chance that all the above was just a coincidence is
0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000989755466%

That's 1 in a gaziliabilionzilliontrillion.

I know I didn't calculate parts the exact way it should, but as you can see I always tried to make the possibility as likely as possible.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=14067&p=234983&

Maybe one of the debunkers can do the same and prove my calculations wrong or come up with a well argumented explanation for this? To me this is proof that it's not all coincidence.

To those that say that the numerology is BS and not planned by Mike but by the ones that killed him or tried to kill him, please explain why he used the numbers throughout the years himself:















The albums Dangerous, HIStory disc 2 (new releases) and Invincible all three have a duration of approx. 77 minutes.

9 statues were built to promote HIStory: Past, Present & Future, Book 1.


So was Mike stupid and did he tell those who were after his life about the importance of the numbers? I don't think so, I think he is way to smart for that.

TS is linked to Sony? I have no doubt in my mind he is, because Mike is linked to Sony. After his 2002 London speech, you would think he would not release more albums with Sony, besides the one he still owed them, but he did.

Sony kicked Motolla out in 2003 while Mottola did a lot for the company:

QuoteDuring his tenure, he transformed Sony into one of the most successful global music companies, expanding its businesses into over 60 countries, while creating one of the strongest management teams in the industry. He revitalized Sony Music's publishing division by making such acquisitions as the Beatles catalogue and enabled Sony to become the first major music company to make available commercial digital downloads. He is widely well-known for signing, developing, and nurturing the careers of Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Destiny's Child, Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Gloria Estefan, the Dixie Chicks, Marc Anthony, Barbra Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, among others. He also worked with Michael Jackson briefly while he recorded his Invincible (2001) album. He later stated he did not like working with Tommy and that he was a racist and devil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Mottola#Sony

So it seems that Sony choose MJ over Mottola.

QuoteIn March 2006, the main house at the Neverland Ranch was closed as a cost-cutting measure. There were numerous reports around that time that Jackson was having financial problems. Jackson had been deliquent on his repayments of a $270 million loan secured against his music publishing holdings, even though those holdings were reportedly making him as much as $75 million a year. Bank of America sold the debt to Fortress Investments. Sony reportedly proposed a restructuring deal which would give them a future option to buy half of Jackson's stake in their jointly owned publishing company (leaving Jackson with a 25% stake). Jackson agreed to a Sony-backed refinancing deal in April 2006, although the exact details were not made public. Jackson did not have a recording contract in place with Sony or any other major record label at the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ja ... 80.9309.29

So Mike and Sony made a deal in 2006, but did he really sell half of stake to Sony? We don't know. I think Mike never was in dept at all, I even think he owns much much more than we can even imagine. But that aside. He and Sony made a deal and we don't know what kind of deal. Maybe Sony and MJ worked out their differences? Maybe this deal was about the hoax? Sony would get all the deals concerning MJ after his 'death' and would help Mike with this hoax. Or maybe Mike really wants to screw Sony and Sony is in this hoax without knowing they will get screwed. Both is possible, but IF Sony has bad intentions, it doesn't mean TS has bad intentions as well. Mike owns half of Sony publishing and therefore has ties with Sony as well.

Now why would TS have bad intentions? What has he actually told us? He told us Mike wants to turn 666 upside down and awaken the masses. Would Sony promote that if they are part of that themselves? Doesn't make sense. Sony wants to make $$ out of this fake hoax? Doesn't make sense at all, we are just with a few. Did Mike promote it before June 25, 2009? Yes he did. It's everywhere: in his lyrics, in his art, in his symbolism, album covers, videos, speeches, you name it. So TS is only telling us what Mike himself tried to tell us for years.

What about Elvis? Why also link to Linda Hood while Linda is now telling us Jesse told her he doesn't support the case? Is Linda telling the truth and Eliza isn't? Or is Eliza telling the truth and Linda isn't? We don't know, all we know is that Linda also thinks that Eliza's DNA proof is legit.

QuoteIt is also odd that Eliza's DNA results were good enough for the judge in Memphis to allow Vernon Presley's estate to be reopened.  And yes, it definitely was reopened.  I followed the case on a daily basis.  Did any of you know that Lisa Marie and Sandy Miller (attempted) were both contacted through the court?  But all of this is not good enough for all of you.
http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page1

TS knew that as well and there is a big chance TS has no idea why Linda doesn't support the case anymore. I remember Linda deleting or moving a post when TS linked to it. Why do that? Is she following TS and if so, why is she following TS/TIAI?

Linda now claims that Jesse does not want to be exposed and therefore doesn't supports Eliza's case. Eliza says he does. Now who is telling the truth? If Eliza is lying, I would like to have answers to the following questions:

-Why did Jesse provide Suzanne Stratford from FOX 8 News with a cheek swap? If he didn't intent to be revealed as being alive, why send a cheek swap to the media?

-Why would he co-write a book with that Dr. Hinton about him being still alive?

-Why would he send Eliza a licked envelope in 2008, knowing his DNA would be on it?

-Why is Linda still operating a website where she is trying to convince people that Jesse is Elvis and that he is still alive?

Here is my thought on this: Elvis/Jesse is turning 76 soon. He probably won't live for another 50 years and wants the world to know the truth. Because he doesn't want to be haunted by paparazzi anymore and doesn't want to be in the limelight anymore, he wants it to get out another way. Simply writing a letter to the media will not help because they won't even bother to analyse the handwriting because too many people claim to be Elvis. So first he tries with Dr. Hinton and the book. This was picked up by Fox news but afterwards ignored and Hinton was ridiculed. It didn't get the attention needed. Then suddenly Linda, who he has had contact with for years, opens a website where she shows why Jesse is Elvis and why he is still alive. Linda gets attacked as well and the handwriting tests are being ignored. Then Eliza shows up and there is a new possibility. She is his half-sister and Eliza would be able to prove so in court, so he sends her his DNA as well. Eliza is being ridiculed as well and people say she is a fake. Maybe Eliza knows why and how Elvis wants the world to know he is still alive and maybe that is why she is taking this to court. Fact is that we don't know the complete story and therefore we can't judge.

But what does it all have to do with MJ? What is the link and why would TS link to this case and support a media rally? To me the Elvis/Eliza case is not important to the hoax. I believe Mike faked his death from minute one and I don't need the Elvis case or thisisalsoit.com to make me believe he is alive and kicking. But I do think Mike and Elvis know each other and I also think Mike knows what is going on with the Elvis case. Elvis might support MJ because he walked the same road. The media ignored the rally completely. Probably TS knew they would, and maybe he wanted to show us how hard it is to convince people with just logic arguments and how frustrating it is when people say you´re crazy and ignore your logic thinking. Here is what the lawyer wrote:

QuoteEliza can establish the chain of custody showing how she obtained the samples.  But for people to accept it, they have to believe her tale about how she got the DNA.

In other words, what if she's making the whole thing up?  That's something I've thought about at length (I am a lawyer, after all).  If Eliza invented all of this, and the DNA isn't from Presley relatives but is really from her own cousins, and none of them are Elvis relations, then all of the following would have to be true:

Jesse would have to be "in on it," because his DNA matches Eliza's -- so they really are half-siblings.
That would mean either she or Jesse would have had to track the other down, despite their age difference, because Eliza was adopted as a baby and didn't know she had a brother.
They would have also had to track down cousins from both sides of Jesse's family, which again would have been tough because Eliza was adopted.
The would-be-scam would have been started back in at least 2001, because that's when the Dr. Hinton book about Elvis being alive was published.
The scammers would have had to fool Suzanne Stratford and her bosses at FOX 8 TV News (unless they're in on it, of course), because they never would have done the stories if they thought Eliza and Jesse were committing fraud.
They would had to have fooled Dr. Yates and his DNA company, as well as Shirley Mason (the graphologist), among many others -- not to mention the Missouri Attorney General.
Plus, they would have had to plan to submit the Jesse DNA to FOX 8 TV News back in 2002 and then wait to spring their master plan into action in 2008, because Eliza's 2008 sample from the pink Elvis envelope and the 2002 Jesse sample that FOX 8 TV News had tested match each other.  Why begin a scam in 2001 only to wait until 2008 to see it through?

Not to mention the fact that if this was all a master scheme to defraud the public, through a court proceeding, why would they have done it knowing that it would be so easy for their plan to fall apart?  Elvis Presley Enterprises simply has to march into court with the DNA of Lisa Marie, or either one of the two cousins tested for that matter, and they could prove in a snap that it's not true ... unless, of course, it IS true.

In other words, if this was a fraud, it would be so easy for the "Presley" camp to disprove it that no one would think they could get away with it   Yet no one has come forward in the court case to stop Eliza.
http://www.probatelawyerblog.com/2010/0 ... -mean.html

I believe Eliza is telling the truth about being Elvis' half-sister. Fox news believes that as well, Andrew Mayoras believes it and also Linda believes she is. Does Elvis support her case? I believe he does when I think about all the proof he provided Hinton, Linda and Eliza with. Why is Linda claiming something else? I don't know. Maybe this is all a hoax within a hoax and is Elvis distracting the masses the same way as MJ is distracting the masses with contradicting story. Maybe there is another reason why Linda is now saying this. I don't know and maybe TS doesn't know either. Do we need legal proof to believe Eliza or TS is telling the truth? Maybe that would help for some, but let's face it: Mike was acquitted in a legal procedure and some still think he's a pedophile, so legal proof doesn't help those who have a stubborn mind either.

My conclusion after thinking for myself is that TS is genuine, supportive and close to MJ, if not MJ himself. None of the opposers has ever convinced me otherwise throughout the months, because I have never seen a genuine attempt to debunk him, I only saw agressive attacks without logic arguments. I have also never seen one of the family members oppose it by hinting that TS is a fraud, I have only seen support from them and don't say that the family doesn't know about TS, they must. This is the largest hoax site on the internet and they would have to live under a rock far into the woods if they would not be aware of this site. TS is a big subject on this forum and linked on the index, so they can't miss his posts when they visit here. My conclusion is also that Eliza is who she says she is and I also think that Elvis supports her. The harder people try to convince you that something is not true, the more you should think for yourself and question their intentions.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Were in stage two and all we have to do is keep using our brains, think for ourselves and keep the faith that one day we will be in stage three.

Lastly: should TS explain himself? I don't think so. I want to ask those who say some of us follow TS blindly, can't think for ourselves and rely to much on his posts, why they need an explanation from him so bad? Do YOU rely on him that much? Are you seeking for confirmation that he is legit because TS' posts are the only reason you believe this is a hoax? And TS doesn't owe us. He repeatedly said we had to think for ourselves and not just believe everything we are being told. He provided us with lots of valuable info and he didn't even have to do that. Do we need him to say who he is before we see the obvious? I don't. I don't need to know who he is, because when I think for myself and read his posts I know he is supporting us and Mike, and that is enough for me. I wouldn't believe him less when he said he is MJ, and I wouldn't believe him less when he said he is someone we never heard of.

TS never convinced me Mike was alive, I knew that way before TS ever posted. TS only made me think on a different level and that has helped me the past year in forming my opinion on everything in this world, not just this hoax. I became a wiser person and I learned a bunch about myself.

And maybe, just maybe he would have tried to give an explanation when people would have asked him in a more respectful way and not by accusing him of plotting with Sony against MJ.
禪   Link

~Souza~Topic starter

November 28, 2010, 06:07:30 PM #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Gema"

Souza, your post is very eloquent.

Imo, People just panic at times and can´t find clearly what they panic from.

I still don´t understand why TS involved Elvis with this hoax on the first place. The chaos starts from there.

Maybe that is done intentional to see if people would loose their heads over it and stop beLIEving.

MissG

November 28, 2010, 06:11:11 PM #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Could be. May be TS could redirect to the answer to the question someday.

Also I would like to know, why "LIE" in "beLIEve" are used in versals?

("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

~Souza~Topic starter

November 28, 2010, 06:14:07 PM #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Gema"

Could be. May be TS could redirect to the answer to the question someday.

Also I would like to know, why "LIE" in "beLIEve" are used in versals?

You should ask the beLIEvers who started it. I use it because we need to believe MJ being dead is a lie, along with many other things we have been fed by the media.[/color]

Im_convincedmjalive

November 28, 2010, 06:16:40 PM #18 Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 06:18:20 PM by Im_convincedmjalive

;)
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13802&start=50

Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"

Quote from: "~Souza~"


Hmmm, let's see...

Option 1: There is a chance he needs to wait for the Eliza case/Vernon exhumation, and the planning for his own exhumation as well. I do hope he is ready though, by that I mean he knows we're here for him when he needs us and he feels safe and supported enough to come back. I haven't seen TS redirect to Mr. Marley yet, so despite yesterday's redirect, I'm still a liddle worried. In this case Mike might have had several dates in mind, some of which have already passed, some still to come. There are many factors he can't control, so in this case he has some buffers.

Option 2: There is a part of me that thinks he has this one date in mind since he started planning this. If he is really such a perfectionist, he must have this perfect bamdate planned in advance as well. Probably impossible for us to find out, but that would make it even more perfect. In this case TS' predictions of possible bamdates are either a test for us to see if we will keep the faith no matter what, or Mike simply is the only one who knows the date.

Option 3: He is deciding if he will be back at all.

I haven't made up my mind yet. I am leaning towards option 2, but it could be option 1 as well, simply because it makes sense.
Although I would definitely understand option 3, I don't think that's the case, because then all of this would have been in vain. I don't see him starting something without finishing it, most certainly not something like this where he has put his heart and soul in.

I LIKE the combo of Option 1 and 2.

It is MY belief that when Michael began planning and preparing for this "hoax" he indeed knew the "perfect day" to "die".

Based on what I know about him and his love of numerology, he could pinpoint the "perfect day" to "die" and during his planning phase, (the years from the start, all the way up to today) he probably has added some things and deleted some things to his plan according to circumstances out of his control. Flexibility is key.  ;)

Think about ALL the shit he has endured since roughly 1991.

While planning this "hoax" I am thinking he probably adjusted the original plan to include REVENGE and Personal VENDETTAS that came about as a result of The Conspiracies towards him.
These things NEED to be finished and ticked off a list before this is over.  8-)

It is my opinion that Michael indeed has a rough timeframe for his "BAM"
(whatever that means to him.)

I believe that the year 2012 is a major clue for the rough draft timeframe of a "BAM" and the intial end of the "hoax". I also believe that there are exact planned dates still to come for certain things to play out accordingly but, what happens in between those dates to this "hoax" is out of Michael's hands (kind of), he has no control over how we as "hoax" players are gonna act, or respond to any of this.

He can influence us, by clues or TS Updates, TMZ articles, his own family but, when it comes down to it THIS HOAX has a LIFE of it's own.

There is ALOT of things ALL happening and being accomplished at the same time.
What better way to Get A Message out to The World?
Fake your death and get people involved in the world's biggest classroom and educate them while entertaining them, so we don't go completely NUTS, lol.
PURE GENIUS  :mrgreen:

Seriously though if Mike had done his concerts in London and it was rumoured that he  wanted to use that as a platform for a message, only the people at the concerts would hear the message. Doing it the way he has, SHOCK FACTOR, by Faking his death, getting the publics attention, getting them involved in a game, ARG, teach them ALL (over the net) about ALL the corrupt shit in the world. Recruit for the ARMY of L.O.V.E.
AWESOME!  :ugeek:

Lead by example, that is what Mike has done his whole LIFE, he has lead by example and he continues to LEAD right now. Just read this whole forum, look at his videos, interviews, he is leading the Army of L.O.V.E. RIGHT NOW.

Peace
sorry I am long winded this has been on my mind for a while.

We had expressed opinions about the reasons for a delay and Eliza's case back in the thread I posted. I am a firm believer in always reviewing. I review my own posts to see where my own thinking and attitude was at when I began and where is my thinking and attitude now. I use this as a comparison to gage my own changes in behaviour. Am I learning what is being taught? I think this post you did is very well thought out and if it helps all the better.

Peace

CrazyBanana

November 28, 2010, 06:16:58 PM #19 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "~Souza~"

Quote from: "Gema"

Could be. May be TS could redirect to the answer to the question someday.

Also I would like to know, why "LIE" in "beLIEve" are used in versals?

You should ask the beLIEvers who started it. I use it because we need to believe MJ being dead is a lie, along with many other things we have been fed by the media.[/color]

I think it started with the Criss Angel posters! what happened with that?

MissG

November 28, 2010, 06:20:45 PM #20 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "CrazyBanana"

Quote from: "~Souza~"

Quote from: "Gema"

Could be. May be TS could redirect to the answer to the question someday.

Also I would like to know, why "LIE" in "beLIEve" are used in versals?

You should ask the beLIEvers who started it. I use it because we need to believe MJ being dead is a lie, along with many other things we have been fed by the media.[/color]

I think it started with the Criss Angel posters! what happened with that?

Thanks for the info.
I have no idea which believers started using it.
("Minkin güerveeeee")
Michael pls come back


"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

TheRunningGirl

November 28, 2010, 06:27:48 PM #21 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Souza -- Great Post - Great example of THINKING for YOURSELF!

You were brave to attempt the $999 rewards... having spent many years studying maths, I chose instead to try my luck at the 1 in a million coincidence test TS also had on offer... and I lost... despite the odds being significantly higher than  0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000989755466% !

Quote from: "Souza"

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

We're in stage two and all we have to do is keep using our brains, think for ourselves and keep the faith that one day we will be in stage three.

It is important to keep our objectivity - "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." —Albert Einstein

We will find out in due time about Elvis and the full connection with TS/MJ.  As it stands, we are still missing some facts to draw a final conclusion... but your theory Souza is plausible.  And the romantic in me, hope it is right ... as it would create a Big shock wave before the even Bigger shock wave... call it the wake-up call before the Tsunami of Love starts....

With L.O.V.E



"Let us dream of tomorrow where
we can truly love from the soul, and
know love as the ultimate truth at
the heart of all creation."

katy (MJFAN7)

November 28, 2010, 06:35:02 PM #22 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Fantastic post, Souza. I will applaud you for taking so much time out to do this!

I do not think TS came to explain everything to us and tell us everything. There's a lot of stuff TS doesn't tell us, and we figure that out on our own.



أملي هو فيكم.

angel

November 28, 2010, 06:50:57 PM #23 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Well said, Souza.  Thanks for the voice of reason and common sense. :)

voiceforthesilent

November 28, 2010, 06:54:29 PM #24 Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 07:02:29 PM by voiceforthesilent

I don't know if this has been pointed out but there is another triple 7 on the arm you posted. It's on the wrist.

Regarding the Jesse/Eliza/Linda case...if Lisa Marie or Pricilla speak up and say he's alive that would get peoples attention.

I have never believed that Michael is broke. I agree with you there - Michael owns a lot more than we realize. His financial struggles never added up in my mind.

I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

~Souza~Topic starter

November 28, 2010, 06:55:46 PM #25 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"

I don't know if this has been pointed out but there is another triple 7 on the arm you posted.

That's is why I posted it. ;)

emeraldcity

November 28, 2010, 06:59:31 PM #26 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Kudos to you Souza! Thanks for taking the time to put this together ... it's confirmed my beliefs and strengthened my faith.  Love to all xx

Rita Hayworth

November 28, 2010, 07:01:08 PM #27 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

Souza, I just want to tell you what a great job you have and are doing. Whether you know it or not, you have done an outstanding job of leadership not just moderating a hoax investigation website.  Once the information was gathered you never waivered in spite of all of the attacks. You've been opened to new ideas or theories when necessary but never stopped believing. You handled the naysayers when necessary.  I have been follower for a long time and even I have had some doubts. But like an excellent teacher, you reminded us of all of the clues that were discovered. Thanks so much for not only taking us on an incredible journey but keeping us on the path. I would like the Bam as much as others, but I have to say this journey  to the truth has been remarkable. In some ways, I will hate to see it end. I have trouble imagining any other adventure that could match let alone exceed this one.

I've no doubt that there is something great for you at the end of all of this. I've learned much from observing your leadership skills in a battle for the truth.

Thanks.

voiceforthesilent

November 28, 2010, 07:06:38 PM #28 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "~Souza~"

Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"

I don't know if this has been pointed out but there is another triple 7 on the arm you posted.

That's is why I posted it. ;)

sorry - I thought you were showing the one at the top of his arm. My bad.. :)

Question - when do you sleep....LOL.

I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Andrea

November 28, 2010, 07:07:26 PM #29 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest

I'm glad you wrote this post Souza.

I've always felt that TS is a genuine insider and I believe Eliza as well.  I don't know how big a part, if any, that Elvis has to do with MJ's hoax but I imagine there has been some contact between them, both before and after June 25th.  What's kinda funny is that when I first thought MJ could be alive (I think it was June 26th?), I started googling stuff and the Derek Clontz site said that MJ and Elvis were alive and in hiding together somewhere.  :lol:  Could've been a metaphor or something but interesting nonetheless considering all the developments in the hoax.

TS has proven himself to be a genuine insider and if people still want to question that, then that's up to them if they want to waste their time.  We don't know TS's identity, but none of us know anybody's on here, for the most part.  You or I could theoretically be an insider posing as a death hoax investigator.  (I'm not by the way!  :D )

This forum is the main source for all-things-death-hoax.  TS re-directs to this forum regularly and is a member here and we are on TMZ's blogroll.  I hope the arguing about TS stops so we can get on with what we do best.

And remember, it's all for LOVE!!!  :)

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