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[MjjProd]

And about Michael's numerology, may I add this spaceship picture which directly points to the "death" date. :D
25+06+2009=2040

O.M.G.  :shock:
Coincidence is SO BIG....

** And piece by piece, by piece, Michael is revealed **

[heartphantom]

Postby fordtocarr » Tue May 03, 2011 1:17 pm
Well, a lot of intelligent talk on here now! :)
But, I do have to defend us with the opinion of TS, in that...I AM NOT WANTING TO BE SPOON FED.
That is nuts to me. He came into our investigating forum, a place us who love Michael and don't believe he died, came to congregate and commiserated and try to figure out and affirm he is alive. He came in authoritative. Even if he did not say "listen to me, I KNOW"..the implication is THERE!.
Think how many others have come in and out of here and we want to know how they feel they have the KNOW. How those ones are getting the info they claim. PROVE YOURSELF. Back up what you say. But, with TS, there is so much "power" implied it's as though it's almost sacrilegious to even ask or doubt him. People get all crazy it you want proof of how he knows. LOOK at all the previous posts!!
I'm just saying, don't spoon feed me then. Don't offer anything--unless you can back it up!! By saying you "get to move to the next level" implies that we are correct on something!! If we are...he should be able to back up HOW HE KNOWS THAT. Seriously. If it were someone else...ME for instance, saying "no...that's NOT correct". "You can't move on, TS is not right". You would tell me how I know. Show proof. But, we take it that it's facts that we reach now. And, seriously, what are these facts?
Here, I'm NOT saying that I don't believe TS is in the know. I actually think he knows/or simply has a great since of reasoning. BUT...I also think he needs to qualify HOW and WHY. We demand as much of anyone else and ourselves. If you claim or act as though you lead TO answers, then respond as THOUGH you know which results are correct, you need so show HOW you can prove it.
This is a HUGE point in our unity. This is a HUGE MAP in the roads we take on this entire investigating process. If someone comes in here offering you a wrong turn would you want to know why you should deviate from the path you are taking or would you just go and perhaps waste you time and never get where you are going? NO. You would not. You may never gain anything.
This is what I'm saying. Even if I never get another morsel of infor, if I DO, I want to KNOW I have a reliable source.
ISN'T THIS WHAT MICHAEL WAS ABOUT??? He talked and sang about not reading/believing all you hear or read...and here we are. Putting faith and being lead without proof. ANY iota of proof to be lead would be sufficient. It don't matter that SOME of TS's facts have proven...some have not.
It's simple. We want everyone to back up what they say. Especially someone who tells us WE ARE CORRECT!!! If you can say THAT you are saying you KNOW. If you know, say...do something to let us know you DO. Like everyone else.

Just copied this here to leave TS's thread for those willing  to be active on that new level.

fordtocarr, i agree with everything you say especially the highlighted parts.
if TS doesn't answer i guess the best way to deal with is just go with your intuition.
It's funny how asking "how do you know we've made progress and where?" means asking to be spoon fed. I thought NOT asking and swallowing everything is being given means spoonfeeding.
Being an analytical mind and raising questions to everything we read is what we are adviced in the first place by the very man we are here for.

[curls]

Damn - just took so long composing a post that I had to log-in again and lost it all!

So I was going to say that this is not a TS bashing post, but just some observations and questions. I've posted here so's not to go off topic or clutter up other threads, although unfortunately I don't expect TS will read it tucked away here!

This is an old quote that brings up a couple of interesting points that seem relevant to many of the discussions around at the moment. It comes from TIAI revealed Part 6:

viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1929#p27570

Then what about the MJ "Return" to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could've returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would've had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.

Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ "Return"!
[/b]

Bear in mind TS wrote this in December 2009! I wonder how relevant these old posts still are.

Did MJ really expect everyone who was going to 'get it' to have 'got it' in just 4 months? (I was still in accepting he was dead mode at this time, by the way!)

Was TS saying that MJ's return depends on us, and our understanding of his hoax?

The quote above implies that it's incorrect to say, as many do, that it's MJ's hoax, not ours. I'd say it very definitely is ours, we are a part of it, if his return depends on us. It's a safety net for him, and also an escape clause - if he changes his mind and decides not to come back then it's our own fault! I'm not sure how I feel about this! I've always thought we were just innocent bystanders - maybe we're not.

So if we do have influence, and we want to see MJ back, shouldn't we be taking TS's threads with open-minds and a willingness to further our understanding, regardless of any doubts or frustrations we may have with him? (Even trolls and troublemakers have come here with interesting ideas, worthy of consideration!)

I feel sorry for TS! He takes a lot of flack, but I think he is sympathetic to our frustrations even though he doesn't/cannot give explanations.

That was a shortened version of what I wanted to say!

I shall carry on watching and reading.

[heartphantom]

Was TS saying that MJ's return depends on us, and our understanding of his hoax?

Yes,
and this theory makes no sense for the FBI theory. FBi's activity is not the global spiritual awakening. FBI can be at most relate to a sting operation but even in this case what TS said makes no sense. It's one or another.
When was he right? Then or now?

Bear in mind TS wrote this in December 2009! I wonder how relevant these old posts still are.

His knowledge on the reason of the hoax must be still relevant. The reason of a hoax is before a hoax. Is it a spiritual awakening or is it a cold FBI operation? If MJ's return depends on us ,  how can we influence a sting operation? So there's got to be one reason or another, both are nonsense.

I feel sorry for TS! He takes a lot of flack, but I think he is sympathetic to our frustrations even though he doesn't/cannot give explanations.

No one forces us to read , but no one forces him to write also. If i do feel sorry for him, i feel sorry for members too.

[curls]

Was TS saying that MJ's return depends on us, and our understanding of his hoax?

Yes,
and this theory makes no sense for the FBI theory. FBi's activity is not the global spiritual awakening. FBI can be at most relate to a sting operation but even in this case what TS said makes no sense. It's one or another.
When was he right? Then or now?

Bear in mind TS wrote this in December 2009! I wonder how relevant these old posts still are.

His knowledge on the reason of the hoax must be still relevant. The reason of a hoax is before a hoax. Is it a spiritual awakening or is it a cold FBI operation? If MJ's return depends on us ,  how can we influence a sting operation? So there's got to be one reason or another, both are nonsense.

@heartphantom, I agree it is hard to see how these things can be combined, but TS said this, if it helps at all!

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=375#p314370

"Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale."

[Aintnosunshine]

It may be very well be any of the ones said above.   Besides brainwash TS. Hey, come on ---- It`ll be up to us if - and when and how -  MJ comes back? We have to deserve it?

Plleeeeeaaaasse  -..... WHO is WHAT expecting from you (to do)???     Be careful!      God bless.

[curls]

WHO is WHAT expecting from you (to do)???     Be careful!      God bless.

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you elaborate a bit?

[heartphantom]

Yes, could you please detail a little?

[heartphantom]

finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale."

Curls, thank you for sharing.
And the answer is: all of the above!
That's exactly why i asked him: are you answers FACTS or ASSUMPTIONS?
I don't mind if they are opinions just don't assume the role of a knower. Because that's what Souza suggests, she told me in the chatroom "hey , i am not TS , i don't know everything". If that's not suggesting then what is?
If i say FBI is not in on hoax , i am answered no way, TS said this and that, i thought we agreed on that level etc. So the debate is locked for those who don't follow him. I am being told to debunk, debunk what. It's like i am telling someone to debunk that i am not Marie Sophie from France. It's not fair in a situation where our information is so poor, it's really a game and nothing more, tell a blind to make the puzzle. This is not a realistic investigation.
Instead of trying to debunk each other with no ending (because we don't know who's right or wrong anyway) we 'd better do the opposite and keep an eye on EVERY possibility. Maybe we'd have access to ideas we've never thought before.

[Aintnosunshine]

Well, the burden of proof is always with the ones who claim a truth or anything. Therefore I don`t have to "debunk" TS (since there is no evidence ----).    ;)

[bec]

Ts isn't offering anything as far as theories, we are. TS refers to theories already in existence, and that goes for the FBI theory as well. TS also sometimes supports false theories to encourage their debunking. TS isn't uncovering the truth, we are.

[PureLove]

Ts isn't offering anything as far as theories, we are. TS refers to theories already in existence, and that goes for the FBI theory as well. TS also sometimes supports false theories to encourage their debunking. TS isn't uncovering the truth, we are.

So, if TS never mentioned about the FBI and the Sting Operation we were going to find them out? I don't think so. We thought about the FBI possibility but never digged too much about it or never thought of the Sting Operation. These theories were not existed on the forum before TS told it to us. Like we never thought about the leaf pattern inside the ambulance. That one came from TS as well.

[curls]

Instead of trying to debunk each other with no ending (because we don't know who's right or wrong anyway) we 'd better do the opposite and keep an eye on EVERY possibility.

Yup, very true! That's what I do. I have my own ideas about things, but they are only ideas, I have no proof, so I keep all the other theories filed away in little boxes in my brain, for future reference if needed!

[Aintnosunshine]

Instead of trying to debunk each other with no ending (because we don't know who's right or wrong anyway) we 'd better do the opposite and keep an eye on EVERY possibility.

Yup, very true! That's what I do. I have my own ideas about things, but they are only ideas, I have no proof, so I keep all the other theories filed away in little boxes in my brain, for future reference if needed!

Right! Don`t allow any distraction to occupy your mind ...   :-)   Cognitive dissonance, that is what we should be aware of.

[bec]

Ts isn't offering anything as far as theories, we are. TS refers to theories already in existence, and that goes for the FBI theory as well. TS also sometimes supports false theories to encourage their debunking. TS isn't uncovering the truth, we are.

So, if TS never mentioned about the FBI and the Sting Operation we were going to find them out? I don't think so. We thought about the FBI possibility but never digged too much about it or never thought of the Sting Operation. These theories were not existed on the forum before TS told it to us. Like we never thought about the leaf pattern inside the ambulance. That one came from TS as well.

Yes they've been kicked around since summer of 2009. Off and on, more off then on before TS mentioned it, but many have had it in their head as a "have to be involved" presence for a long time. I wasn't one of those people.

TMZ also injected FBI into the convo spring 2010 with the walking coffin pic and reference to MJs body being transported by the SWAT team. FBI also made a presence at the 2010 Grammy's when Earth Song video was played. Their special ops van was parked outside. The FBI involvement has been entrenched in the undertones of this hoax for a long time.