Eliza Presley's DNA evidence no Legal Evidence?

[PeaceLoveHappiness]

I've never followed TS, but I find it quite interesting that suddenly after over a year and a half, this person would now claim that Michael has been murdered.  If they really believe that, then why have they been leading people on all this time?

TS never claimed Michael was murdered.

Oh!  My bad, I must have misread another poster's comments then.  Sorry for any confusion.

[BlackJack]

In my opinion, TS could be stirring the pot a little, particularly in this Eliza case, however I still think this was an important post which is the theme of the hoax for me :
DO you Think 4 your Self. That also implies to not allow yourself to be conditioned by TS.....to my way of thinking it has been done on purpose and just look at the results here!!. People start to doubt straight away and fall into despair again, as has been the case whenever the family won't confirm that MJ's alive. Remember, as I've said before, all of the clues and inconsistencies that point to this being a charade are STILL THERE no matter what new information comes out in the future that implies otherwise. We MUST be objective and think for ourselves rather than be conditioned by anyone or anything..... we really need that anthem I've been talking about on the other thread; maybe we should write one OURSELVES!!!!!!!

[Puff]

I've never followed TS, but I find it quite interesting that suddenly after over a year and a half, this person would now claim that Michael has been murdered.  If they really believe that, then why have they been leading people on all this time?

TS never claimed Michael was murdered.

Please read all parts of update #4, TS states his case about why it IS NOT murder.

TIAI Update #4a: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4c: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4d: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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Well, and in that update did he give us SOLID evidences.............?  :?

[Serenitys_Dream]

I've never followed TS, but I find it quite interesting that suddenly after over a year and a half, this person would now claim that Michael has been murdered.  If they really believe that, then why have they been leading people on all this time?

TS never claimed Michael was murdered.

Please read all parts of update #4, TS states his case about why it IS NOT murder.

TIAI Update #4a: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4c: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4d: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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Well, and in that update did he give us SOLID evidences.............?  :?

I would have to read them again...

I haven't based my belief in Michael being Alive on what TS has said. TS isn't what brought me to the forums in the first place way back in July 2009. It was other things that just didn't seem right from the very beginning. TS has only seemed to elaborate on things we may have missed or didn't quite understand. His posts seem to validate many things that were already being independently investigated by several different people.

I personally investigated that autopsy report myself and it is full of crap. I spent days, days and more days doing research on that AR. The AR just doesn't fit Michael at all, so if that has been created and doesn't reflect an actual autopsy on Michael Jackson then it is a hoax autopsy. What would be purpose of a hoax autopsy, if not for a hoax? What disqualifies my research on that?  

What about the paramedics describing Michael being an old bald man and that they didn't recognize him when the responded to the 911 call. What about the Ambulance photo not looking like 2009 Michael but 80's or 90's Michael and that photo not matching the paramedics description either? What about the 911 call seeming to have come from the Beverley Hills Hotel from a cell phone and not from Murray's cell, which he supposedly talking on moments before he realize Michael wasn't breathing? What about the fire alarm being pulled at UCLA Medical centre, the hospital being evacuated and there being a mass of underground tunnels there with hundreds of entrances/exits? What about Jermaine and the airport slip up and the fact that the LA airport was shut down and yet at least one flight still left? What about all the differing and inconsistent stories between people and even individuals who have been interviewed about the events of that day (and some of these interviews occurred within days of each other)?

This is just a start, there is much more. Is the fact that the DNA was collected improperly in the Eliza/Vernon/Jesse/Elvis paternity case going to negate absolutely everything else, that has been uncovered by us, that supports Michael having hoaxed his death?

I don't know who TS is for sure, I have had my thoughts on that but no matter what, they are not the reason I started looking into this at all nor are they the reason I have continued to research and investigate. I believe that Michael is alive. I believe this because of what we have all discovered from day one and not what a mysterious poster has presented.

[mac5k]

BRAVO Serenitys_Dream  !!!

[GINAFELICIA]

....... however I still think this was an important post which is the theme of the hoax for me :
DO you Think 4 your Self. ......
.... we really need that anthem I've been talking about on the other thread; maybe we should write one OURSELVES!!!!!!!

Yes you could be right....the theme of the hoax could be Do you think for yourself!!
An awakening call to those who want to hear.
The message reaches only a few people now........ I wonder if MJ has a plan for the non-believers ...

[Christiana]

BRAVO Serenitys_Dream  !!!

Double bravo and a standing o!

[_Anna_]

In my opinion, TS could be stirring the pot a little, particularly in this Eliza case, however I still think this was an important post which is the theme of the hoax for me :
DO you Think 4 your Self. That also implies to not allow yourself to be conditioned by TS.....to my way of thinking it has been done on purpose and just look at the results here!!. People start to doubt straight away and fall into despair again, as has been the case whenever the family won't confirm that MJ's alive. Remember, as I've said before, all of the clues and inconsistencies that point to this being a charade are STILL THERE no matter what new information comes out in the future that implies otherwise. We MUST be objective and think for ourselves rather than be conditioned by anyone or anything..... we really need that anthem I've been talking about on the other thread; maybe we should write one OURSELVES!!!!!!!

as I was saying, it's easy to say "I lied on purpose" because this way you wash your hands of ANY responsability.

Until WHEN will keep saying "believe" and wait? What is the whole plan?! WHO wants us to believe?

I start to believe now that everyone has a hidden agenda here. Not all the people, but some.

[Puff]

I've never followed TS, but I find it quite interesting that suddenly after over a year and a half, this person would now claim that Michael has been murdered.  If they really believe that, then why have they been leading people on all this time?

TS never claimed Michael was murdered.

Please read all parts of update #4, TS states his case about why it IS NOT murder.

TIAI Update #4a: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4c: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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TIAI Update #4d: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder
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Well, and in that update did he give us SOLID evidences.............?  :?

I would have to read them again...

I haven't based my belief in Michael being Alive on what TS has said. TS isn't what brought me to the forums in the first place way back in July 2009. It was other things that just didn't seem right from the very beginning. TS has only seemed to elaborate on things we may have missed or didn't quite understand. His posts seem to validate many things that were already being independently investigated by several different people.

I personally investigated that autopsy report myself and it is full of crap. I spent days, days and more days doing research on that AR. The AR just doesn't fit Michael at all, so if that has been created and doesn't reflect an actual autopsy on Michael Jackson then it is a hoax autopsy. What would be purpose of a hoax autopsy, if not for a hoax? What disqualifies my research on that?  

What about the paramedics describing Michael being an old bald man and that they didn't recognize him when the responded to the 911 call. What about the Ambulance photo not looking like 2009 Michael but 80's or 90's Michael and that photo not matching the paramedics description either? What about the 911 call seeming to have come from the Beverley Hills Hotel from a cell phone and not from Murray's cell, which he supposedly talking on moments before he realize Michael wasn't breathing? What about the fire alarm being pulled at UCLA Medical centre, the hospital being evacuated and there being a mass of underground tunnels there with hundreds of entrances/exits? What about Jermaine and the airport slip up and the fact that the LA airport was shut down and yet at least one flight still left? What about all the differing and inconsistent stories between people and even individuals who have been interviewed about the events of that day (and some of these interviews occurred within days of each other)?

This is just a start, there is much more. Is the fact that the DNA was collected improperly in the Eliza/Vernon/Jesse/Elvis paternity case going to negate absolutely everything else, that has been uncovered by us, that supports Michael having hoaxed his death?

I don't know who TS is for sure, I have had my thoughts on that but no matter what, they are not the reason I started looking into this at all nor are they the reason I have continued to research and investigate. I believe that Michael is alive. I believe this because of what we have all discovered from day one and not what a mysterious poster has presented.

TMZ wrote about the paramedics....
TMZ brought us ALL the different stories, along with the other media....
The 911 call SEEMS........ it's not enough.....
The ambulance picture is clearly a fake, as Oxman confirmed..
Etc....Etc...Etc....
I'm not saying that Michael is not alive, but something stinks here......

[*Mo*]

I personally investigated that autopsy report myself and it is full of crap. I spent days, days and more days doing research on that AR. The AR just doesn't fit Michael at all, so if that has been created and doesn't reflect an actual autopsy on Michael Jackson then it is a hoax autopsy. What would be purpose of a hoax autopsy, if not for a hoax? What disqualifies my research on that?  

What made people ever think that that autopsy report was the Real Deal..?  

What makes people think that if TMZ would have leaked the real autopsy report there would have been no consequences, especially since it was leaked AFTER Murray had already been charged with involuntary manslaughter?  Just think back of what happened after TMZ leaked details of the confidential preliminary autopsy report of Brittany Murphey.  

It's quote clear that the autopsy report was fabricated by TMZ.  TS and TMZ are cooperating.  Therefore it was a piece of cake for TS to predict last December:

But keep watching, we will yet see more developments regarding 9-9-09 and the hoax.

Then TS comes up with TIAI Update #3 one day before that autopsy report is leaked by TMZ and writes:

3-9. The Best Is Yet to Come!

Well, even if you do need more evidence, keep watching for the 9-9-09 update. It will show very strong evidence of the hoax, and against the murder theory—as well as further evidence that TIAI (STUDY) has genuine hoax information (and is not a fake informer).

In Update #4 TS writes:

And then on February 7, just one day before the autopsy report was released to the public, I wrote: “... keep watching for the 9-9-09 update. It will show very strong evidence of the hoax, and against the murder theory—as well as further evidence that TIAI (STUDY) has genuine hoax information (and is not a fake informer).”

When the report was released, everyone could see that the very last thing on the whole report said: “9-9-09, Date Finalized”. Was this a coincidence? There are several dates in the report: most of them in June or July, and a few in August; the latest date (other than the “Date Finalized”) is 8-19-09.

It is theoretically possible that this 9-9-09 date is a coincidence, but not likely for two main reasons.

Genuine hoax information..?  Coincidence..?  When one participates in fabricating "hoax evidence" it's a piece of cake to make predictions about the content and the release of it, no?  The real question here should be: What was the intention of fabricating and leaking a fake autopsy report?[/b]

[curls]

In my opinion, TS could be stirring the pot a little, particularly in this Eliza case, however I still think this was an important post which is the theme of the hoax for me :
DO you Think 4 your Self. That also implies to not allow yourself to be conditioned by TS.....to my way of thinking it has been done on purpose and just look at the results here!!. People start to doubt straight away and fall into despair again, as has been the case whenever the family won't confirm that MJ's alive. Remember, as I've said before, all of the clues and inconsistencies that point to this being a charade are STILL THERE no matter what new information comes out in the future that implies otherwise. We MUST be objective and think for ourselves rather than be conditioned by anyone or anything..... we really need that anthem I've been talking about on the other thread; maybe we should write one OURSELVES!!!!!!!

If I look at this 'Think for Yourself' issue and go back to my own original thoughts on events surrounding TII and MJ's death, when I undeniably WAS thinking for myself, I come up with the following:

O2 announcement - surprising and weird, why would he be doing concerts again after all this time out of the limelight? Doubts about them ever happening.

Cancellation/postponement of TII concerts - convinced they're never going to happen.

Death - how convenient! Now he certainly won't have to do those concerts.

Memorial - it was just like a show.

TII - no RIP, weird non-MJ moves and mistakes in lyrics.

Everything else I now believe has pretty much come from TMZ, YouTube, TS and this site via TINI and MJJ-777. So I have been heavily influenced by others, in sources that I normally wouldn't give the time of day to. Does the fact they enabled me move those 'original thoughts' into more concrete ideas/beliefs mean I have been 'conditioned'? Should I simply live with my 'original thoughts' and just accept the idea that MJ's passing was puzzling, much like the rest of his life?

Seems like I'm being directed back to the beginning.

[bec]

I don't see how something that hasn't not happened yet makes TS a fake. How about we wait and see.

In any case, if TS is fake it doesn't change my opinion on the hoax. I believed MJ was alive before TS ever came on the scene as S.T.U.D.Y. it'e irrelevant. TS compiles info, gives you a tangible way to validate your own instincts (not dead), and makes minor predictions. It's entertainment and encouragement and that it does well. But it is not the corner stone of the hoax.

There really is no corner stone and there is no domino effect either. In trying to put together a coherent theory anyone will realize this. At every step of the game there are at least 2 different ways to accomplish the same event. If the 911 call was real then the EMTs are real and they were hired on the spot and signed non-disclosures. If the 911 call was staged so were the EMTs. If the ambulance didn't have it's sirens on it's because they couldn't run them because it wasn't a real emergency. If the sirens were on it's because they had the required permits to shot a movie on that day driving that route and the ambulance was chartered. etc etc etc.

As curls wrote, I came to the hoax sites because of my own suspicions that MJ was likely to try a death hoax and reports weren't adding up.

If Sony was behind it they'd make it considerably less obscure and considerably less complicated, much more user friendly with a streamlined obvious progression ARG aspect to it. There would be 3x our numbers doing this not declines in activity month after month. This charade of a mish mosh of an album would have been out by the 1 year anniversary, but wait... there's no need for a mish-mosh tragic faux voice cut and paste because the vault is chock full of 100s of finished unreleased tracks that Sony bought...

Sony didn't pay $250 million for what we have heard so far. They're not morons.

There is no corporate stamp on this, in my opinion of course.

[trustno1]

I agree with bec and BlackJack, the reasons we came here are STILL THERE, they haven't gone away and they won't go away.  And I don't believe Sony is doing all this off its own back to make money from hoaxers, no way.  Sony is in on the whole thing IMO.  I think it's quite likely TS would be stirring things a bit, if you don't assume he is the absolute authority and that he wouldn't do such a thing you won't get confused and lose hope.  I don't understand all the wavering faith that goes on, I rely on my intuition and all the evidence that's on the Index page.  That is my touchstone and I don't get disheartened if someone like TS is a bt cryptic and the family still say he's dead.  That's been going on since the beginning, nothing's changed.  It is about thinking for ourselves and not following anything that we're told absolutely, no matter who says it.  Conditioning in any form isn't good.  I think the longer this goes on the more people will start to lose hope, but that's just fickle in my opinion, nobody gave a timescale and if you had one in mind and it passed that's not anyone's fault but your own.  It isn't our hoax but maybe it is partly dependant on our reactions and our actions.

[ForstAMoon]

I do not get it.

It seems that whoever TIAI/TS is his/her target audience are believers. They seem not to get attention of „Justice for MJ” or „This is not it” campaigns.

If they are to cover up a murder – seems they have chosen wrong target group and should rather focus on other groups claiming from the beginning it was murder. We are called nuts anyway, so why even bother...

If this was a murder and Sony (or any other big group) was involved, then why not kill him silently with something less spectacular that what actually happened? Simple overdose of regular prescription drugs should probably serve a purpose.

But let’s assume that „they” wanted to do something more unique that this...so why did they left behind crazy half-finished evidence like 911, ambulance first time driver, last photo, etc. Why even bother with fake autopsy report? And if the autopsy report was also a cover up for murder, why it was not prepared more thoroughly then?

I have no idea who TIAI/TS is, but the murder cover up for, let’s be frank, a relatively small group of couple of thousands of believers, makes no sense to me at all.

[MJ_ForeverandAlways]

I must have missed something somewhere...I have not seen anything where TS says Michael was murdered!

Having said that, I think it's ironic that along this journey, anyone that has ever spoke out about not believing everything TS has posted was immediately chastised and told to "go read TS's update again". Just like when some of us opposed the whole ElvisandMJ.com thing... we were made to feel like traitors if we didn't want to participate. Now.... all of a sudden TS is a fake and suddenly it seems the ones of us that opposed to believing every word that was posted by him/her are not so wrong after all!  I don't get any of this at all!

I have never clung to TS's words, quite frankly I could never understand all the numerology stuff and always took what he/she said with a grain of salt, just like a lot of the stuff I read. That's it... we never know what's the truth or what's fake! I came to this site because I felt something just wasn't right...but I have never beLIEved everything I read. I so many times have read people saying "Think for yourself and Don't believe anything the media says" but time and time again people take whats written by some (TMZ, TS, and others) and quote it as it's the gospel! When for all you know it could be all lies!

I believe Michael is alive, but I research and observe everything and make up my own mind as to what I believe and don't. And please don't think I am bashing anyone here with what I say because that is not my intention at all! These are just my feelings and it's not to hurt anyone. What I am saying is done with LOVE and compassion for everyone here! This has been a very long journey and it's been one heck of a roller coaster ride, and I know it's not been easy. But it's really difficult & heartbreaking to see so many sway back and forth so much... it's like watching laundry on the line flapping in the breeze. Please don't get discouraged by something you read, just Listen, Observe, Validate, Evaluate everything that is written. Listen to yourself and remember what brought you to this forum in the first place!

LOVE, Hugs, & Blessings to All!  
Keep the FAITH!!
Michael...I LOVE You MORE!!