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[_Anna_]

I would be grateful if the ones who have been following TIAI/TS so far too, would give their opinions on a few things that are uncertain to me, and either I don't understand them, or they are uncertain.

1. The timing.
TS has said that the hoax has been planned since 20 years ago, based on the theory that Michael signed with 1998 since early 90s and the Dangerous 1998 autograph code.
Ok, here is what for me is not clear. The reason for this hoax is complex and hits many subjects, but mainly it's about waking up people and making them think for themselves, about media lies and conspiracies and injustice.Also, this situation with Murray is to show people that the public doesn't treat the suspect as innocent until proven guilty, as they did with him. At that time, in the laste 80s and early 90s Michael hasn't gone yet through the false allegations that took place in '93 and then in 2005. TS says that the Dangerous code is strongly related to the whole situation and it's the key in all this, to show that it has all been calculated to minute. . Then, how could Michael know to plan a fake death beginning with the early 90s (when the false allegations didn't even happen) and how could he know how it would unfold, that the public will condemn him even when proven innocent (2005)? Because TS says that 1998 is the key in the whole timing, even the 911 call is tied to it. And Michael signed with 1998 since late 80s. How could he know back then that he WILL be falsely accused of those crimes in the future,to can even put up a character like Murray to play his role and go through the injustice he has been through?Because Murray IS the main key in this situation and the whole situation relates to him (he's accused of murdering him). If it's how TS says, that everything is calculated to MINUTE (the time of "death", the hour, the year, even the minute the phone call was placed to 911- 12:21:04 ), then how could he know to calculate all these since early 90s when he signed that Dangerous 1998 autograph code?

2.The 1998 code on Dangerous

TS exposed his theory regarding the famous code on the Dangerous cover. He exposed his decoding of the autograph code, but how do we know it is the right decoding? It's TS's word, and nothing more.We have been shown the decoding and explained it thoroughly, but how do we know it's the REAL decoding that Michael thought of? The results are strange, yes, but it's one way to decode it and TIE it to the actual events on 25th of June 2009, and yes, they tie. The question is how do we know the code is decoded correctly(other that TS's own words) and not a fit-in situation? And again, the Dangerous code explanation +what i wrote above are going hand in hand.

If you please could give your opinions on this, I am really interested to hear them.Because this certainly doesn't add up one with another (the timing). And I do not, under any circumstances, believe it's the hand of God that made them fit in future events, nor that Michael is psychic and could know since late 80s he would be falsely accused of a crime he would not commit (to tie it with the decoding of the autograph and timing).

Please don't get me wrong, I am really willing to see if I my logic is wrong.Because I do not take anything for gospel, be it from TS's words.

[truthprevails]

Those are good questions, _Anna_. Speaking only for myself, I can say this:
My faith in this hoax doesn't hang on either TS or numerology.  Actually, I don't believe very much in either (and I don't care if many/most people on this forum do... I have a right to make up my own mind).  If TS and his writings didn't exist at all, I would feel the exact same way about the hoax!

Re: The decoding of the 1998 autograph: You're right that we're only given TS's decoding, and we can't know if it's the real one... Or if there's a code to begin with!  If you believe, based on other things, that TS is a real insider who "knows" stuff, then I guess you will take his word for the decoding.  But if you're skeptical of TS, like me, you're not even going to care what he has to say about the 1998 autograph!

Re: The timing of the hoax: Of course Michael couldn't have planned everything, to a T, in the early 1990s.  It could be that the hoax idea took shape in those years, became more concrete after 1993, and was finalized (including the Murray character) after 2005.  Now it's up to you if you believe that.  As for the time of the 911 call (12:21) or the 2:26 "death" being planned, I don't quite buy it (though the 12:21 timing seems more likely to have been planned).  So again, it all boils down to whether you believe certain things or not.

How do we even know that MJ was heavily into numerology?  Just because he wore "777" on a shirt or two, in 45 years?!  He might have had an amateur interest in numerology, or maybe he just liked the number 7... I've taken an interest in astrology now and then over the years, but I'm not really "into" it and still don't know if I really believe in it!  I'm intrigued in the same way that I'm intrigued by many other topics, and MJ was someone who displayed great curiosity about LOTS of subjects.

It could also be that TS's writings are a combination of fact and opinion...

[lynnandsofee]

TS  ANOTHER  BS

[bec]

TS  ANOTHER  BS

Lol!! Be careful what you label as BS. Be sure you have good reasons behind that conclusion you have jumped to. I am skeptical if you have a reason at all, as you didn't list one.

I'll not reiterate everything truth said but everything she wrote is accurate.

I'll only add, re: the Dangerous autograph and the code.... the point that is raised is that TS was the only one able to decode it and point out its obvious relevance to nearly every movement of this adventure. No one else was able to do this, no one else was able to decode it, decipher it, or make logic out of it. That suggests that it is so complex that only it's inventor could show us how it works. So if only ONE person throughout the course of this past nearly 17 months can decipher the Dangerous code what does that tell you? Tells me that person is the one who made it up.

Now. Who's BS? Not MJ  :lol:

[Tumic Shason]

I am sorry maybe this TS guy is good at numerology or whatever but i do not think he is what most of you claim!,there is no such thing as anyone planning a hoax for over 20 years,no way, why is that you may all ask?,well because no one knows when they will die except GOD, how did Michael know after his supposed hoax planning 20 years ago that he would live until June 25th 2010, I mean lets be realistic, and as for me I am not following this whole numerology thing, because A.(IN my opinion) it is pointless, and B. we all should already know what the message  behind this hoax,if there  is actually a hoax!
all this numerology stuff(once again my opinion) is to try and figure out when Michael will return,that is really none of our business,we just have to follow the clues and see where it will forever lead us!and also most of this number stuff is trying to tell us the whole Illuminati CRAP and what they are about which we all know what it is already about(my opinion)!, HONESTLY i don't get how these numbers came in the first place, yes maybe there were certain dates/times Michael picked for this so called death hoax, but we do not need to go 30 years back and still investigate!
THIS IS MY OPINION,BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOURS!

"WE ALREADY KNOW IT"

[bec]

I am sorry maybe this TS guy is good at numerology or whatever but i do not think he is what most of you claim!,there is no such thing as anyone planning a hoax for over 20 years,no way, why is that you may all ask?,well because no one knows when they will die except GOD, how did Michael know after his supposed hoax planning 20 years ago that he would live until June 25th 2010, I mean lets be realistic, and as for me I am not following this whole numerology thing, because A.(IN my opinion) it is pointless, and B. we all should already know what the message  behind this hoax,if there  is actually a hoax!
all this numerology stuff(once again my opinion) is to try and figure out when Michael will return,that is really none of our business,we just have to follow the clues and see where it will forever lead us!and also most of this number stuff is trying to tell us the whole Illuminati CRAP and what they are about which we all know what it is already about(my opinion)!, HONESTLY i don't get how these numbers came in the first place, yes maybe there were certain dates/times Michael picked for this so called death hoax, but we do not need to go 30 years back and still investigate!
THIS IS MY OPINION,BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOURS!

"WE ALREADY KNOW IT"

Are you for real? I've never seen so many contradictions in one line of thought before.

Lol!!

[Tumic Shason]

I am sorry maybe this TS guy is good at numerology or whatever but i do not think he is what most of you claim!,there is no such thing as anyone planning a hoax for over 20 years,no way, why is that you may all ask?,well because no one knows when they will die except GOD, how did Michael know after his supposed hoax planning 20 years ago that he would live until June 25th 2010, I mean lets be realistic, and as for me I am not following this whole numerology thing, because A.(IN my opinion) it is pointless, and B. we all should already know what the message  behind this hoax,if there  is actually a hoax!
all this numerology stuff(once again my opinion) is to try and figure out when Michael will return,that is really none of our business,we just have to follow the clues and see where it will forever lead us!and also most of this number stuff is trying to tell us the whole Illuminati CRAP and what they are about which we all know what it is already about(my opinion)!, HONESTLY i don't get how these numbers came in the first place, yes maybe there were certain dates/times Michael picked for this so called death hoax, but we do not need to go 30 years back and still investigate!
THIS IS MY OPINION,BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOURS!

"WE ALREADY KNOW IT"

Are you for real? I've never seen so many contradictions in one line of thought before.

Lol!!

good one!
but why would i not be serious?

[_Anna_]

TS  ANOTHER  BS

Lol!! Be careful what you label as BS. Be sure you have good reasons behind that conclusion you have jumped to. I am skeptical if you have a reason at all, as you didn't list one.

I'll not reiterate everything truth said but everything she wrote is accurate.

I'll only add, re: the Dangerous autograph and the code.... the point that is raised is that TS was the only one able to decode it and point out its obvious relevance to nearly every movement of this adventure. No one else was able to do this, no one else was able to decode it, decipher it, or make logic out of it. That suggests that it is so complex that only it's inventor could show us how it works. So if only ONE person throughout the course of this past nearly 17 months can decipher the Dangerous code what does that tell you? Tells me that person is the one who made it up.

Now. Who's BS? Not MJ  :lol:

First, people, please don't call it bullshit and run, that's not the idea of why I opened the thread. I opened it because I am trying to understand what I don't find clear. So please, who has an opinion, say it. That's why I ask.

bec, that was the nearest I could get thinking about the code, but still I don't put my hand through fire that it's the right explanation. BUT:

-the Dangerous code ties strongly with the actual dates, isn't it? ok. Then how could Michael know that his fake death will be "an overdose of propofol issue" implying a 911 call and dr. Murray? Because the "death" implies a call to 911 which is tied to the whole numerology (12:21 and 2:26), so with this, Michael should have known since early 90s that he would fake his death portraying it as a drug overdose, implying Dr. Murray(who is a key/base character in the story because he's seen guilty until proven innocent and not other way round as Michael was seen in the 2005 trial). Understand what I'm saying?in the early 90s Michael wasn't falsely accused of any molestation and hadn't been through any trial, nor he was aware of such thing.

What I am trying to explain is that I don't find any connection, yet, with the planning of the hoax 20 years ago.

[trustno1]

TS  ANOTHER  BS

Lol!! Be careful what you label as BS. Be sure you have good reasons behind that conclusion you have jumped to. I am skeptical if you have a reason at all, as you didn't list one.

I'll not reiterate everything truth said but everything she wrote is accurate.

I'll only add, re: the Dangerous autograph and the code.... the point that is raised is that TS was the only one able to decode it and point out its obvious relevance to nearly every movement of this adventure. No one else was able to do this, no one else was able to decode it, decipher it, or make logic out of it. That suggests that it is so complex that only it's inventor could show us how it works. So if only ONE person throughout the course of this past nearly 17 months can decipher the Dangerous code what does that tell you? Tells me that person is the one who made it up.

Now. Who's BS? Not MJ  :lol:

First, people, please don't call it bullshit and run, that's not the idea of why I opened the thread. I opened it because I am trying to understand what I don't find clear. So please, who has an opinion, say it. That's why I ask.

bec, that was the nearest I could get thinking about the code, but still I don't put my hand through fire that it's the right explanation. BUT:

-the Dangerous code ties strongly with the actual dates, isn't it? ok. Then how could Michael know that his fake death will be "an overdose of propofol issue" implying a 911 call and dr. Murray? Because the "death" implies a call to 911 which is tied to the whole numerology (12:21 and 2:26), so with this, Michael should have known since early 90s that he would fake his death portraying it as a drug overdose, implying Dr. Murray(who is a key/base character in the story because he's seen guilty until proven innocent and not other way round as Michael was seen in the 2005 trial). Understand what I'm saying?in the early 90s Michael wasn't falsely accused of any molestation and hadn't been through any trial, nor he was aware of such thing.

I see exactly where you're coming from Anna. What you're saying is how could he know so far in advance what he was going to go through in the future and plan to recreate that with the Murray character.  Well maybe certain aspects of the plan changed, to accomodate things that were outwith his control.  I can't really read TS' posts and think he's just some genius numerology expert who sat and worked it all out and then tied it all in to the hoax.  Maybe some think he has a hidden agenda like recruiting believers to the NWO theory or the Elvis being alive theory, but he hasn't been using his influence in that way.  In fact the number of disagreements on this thread as to whether he's genuine or a fraud shows that this is still a divisive issue. Not everyone is blindly following him.  The redirects more than the numerology is what makes me think he's somehow in the know.  Numerology is something I get the gist of but I don't want to dig too much into it or I'd be analysing every single thing in my everyday life too! It would indeed be extremely unlikely that all the numbers happened by accident. I'd rather let those who know what they're talking about work out the meanings.  Then it's up to me whether to accept the interpretation.

[MJonmind]

If you please could give your opinions on this, I am really interested to hear them.Because this certainly doesn't add up one with another (the timing). And I do not, under any circumstances, believe it's the hand of God that made them fit in future events, nor that Michael is psychic and could know since late 80s he would be falsely accused of a crime he would not commit (to tie it with the decoding of the autograph and timing).

I think you've asked the trillion dollar question, for which you'll probably have to stay till the "end" to get the complete answer. Maybe it will bring a welcome response from TS. :)

If one totally examines everything in this site since its beginning last year, there is one thing. You either throw everything out and say he died believing the mainstream media like the majority of MJ fans, or you have to jump out and have a little faith in "other" elements being involved. I'm not sure exactly what those "other" all include myself. He was either complete victim, or he's a master-controller. With thousands of coincidences is it humanly possible without help? Michael said himself that he believed in God and that he felt he had psychic abilities, so members here have a huge variety of ways of applying those 2 things. I believe most of the staunch beLIEvers here have had to stretch a little out of their comfort zones of precious beliefs to come to their conclusions. I certainly have. In other words we aren't the same now as we were before. You pretty much can't stay on the fence--it gets painful! Straitjackets are in common use here. :lol:  8-)  TS did say that he wanted his information to us to be based on irrefutable facts and arguments including numbers rather than emotions or personalities. That's why he hasn't disclosed who he/she is.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --A. Einstein

http://www.sonic.net/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html

Trustno1,
I can't really read TS' posts and think he's just some genius numerology expert who sat and worked it all out and then tied it all in to the hoax.

There's just no way. Since MJ's death I've immersed myself almost 24/7 in everything MJ, and when TIAI came along my mind/heart instinctively concluded this was coming from the brain/heart of Michael himself. That has never changed.

[*Mo*]

I see exactly where you're coming from Anna. What you're saying is how could he know so far in advance what he was going to go through in the future and plan to recreate that with the Murray character.

That's not such a tough nut to crack.  Mike started breaking free in the end of the 80's.  For many years he saw those who broke free being taken down by TPTB, so he could bet his ass on it that they would pull the same shit on him.  It was just a matter of time.  Of course he couldn't have foreseen exactly what they were going to take him down with, but he could adjust his plans based on what had happened in the years that followed.

[trustno1]

Yes, that's what I meant by adjusting his plans to suit unforeseen circumstances, and he was aware of it from the moment Thriller went huge.  He himself said the change was almost instantaneous, the press suddenly was full of stories about him being strange and eccentric.  Someone was afraid of the power he now had and they didn't like it, he tried to let people know what had happened to black artists in the past and how the history books were fabricated but only a relatively few people got to hear those words because the media was never going to show it.  A lot more people have heard it now and hopefully they'll go on hearing it until they understand.

[Sarahli]

For me God's help is involved and without the help of God this hoax would just not have been possible. This is my opinion.

Also Michael surely did not know every detail, did not know that he would be accused of this and that or he would have done something to prevent it...

Maybe that another scenario implying these numbers could have been possible... I don't understand how you tie Murray with the past? Such a project needs time to be put in place and certainly that things took shape and had to be adapted with the passing of time. Everything was certainly not engraved into cement but adaptable.

For the autograph code and the fact that it is TS that revealed to us its meaning > first of all a lot of things prove that Michael has embeded a numerology pattern in that hoax and the 1998 code is a main piece. The numerology is not just about numbers that add up... it gives a message... this is a logic that validates the fact that this is hoax and that Michael is behind and not a mafia or whoever else.  This is to tell us that the numerology/the numbers have a meaning, this is an authenticity stamp.

TS is the only one who explained the 1998 autograph and it is not just one explanation amongst different others.... no.... this is the only one.... and it actually makes a lot of sense, that's why we can say that TS is legit... and not only for that as other things have been explained/predicted by him already.

Regarding Moonwalker as it was mentionned in another thread, a lot of us think that Michael broke free in that period and started doing something... (Leave Me Alone is full of symbolism) and Moonwalker dates back to 1988, in that movie Michael disappears and re-apprears btw. Maybe that the idea took place at that time. The idea.

@Tumic I understand you... you are right only God knows when we're gonna die but that fact does not prevent us human beings into making projects... so it is very possible that this hoax has been in the planning for several years and the 1998 autograph says more than 11 years already. If we would think about our death every second and just give up on doing things because we can die at every moment we would just do nothing.

[_Anna_]

Thank you all for your opinions.

trustno1 wrote:
I see exactly where you're coming from Anna. What you're saying is how could he know so far in advance what he was going to go through in the future and plan to recreate that with the Murray character

It's exactly what I mean. Exactly.
That's why the whole timing, 20 years of planning a hoax, is still unclear and i don't believe in it. I believe, if to say my own opinion, that he could have planned all this beginning with middle of 90s, even close to Invincible. Because to me, to reach to THAT level of suffering and pain from how people treated you (2 false allegations + the public humiliation) you have to actually pass through it and that was the moment when he said "this is it". That's why i don't find any logic in the idea that he planned to fake his death since he was 28 years old, he hadn't passed through any shit, yet, at that time. That's why I say that the root of the hoax is, in my opinion, a very deep wound that pushed him to reach to this limit just to be heard.

sarahli wrote:
TS is the only one who explained the 1998 autograph and it is not just one explanation amongst different others.... no.... this is the only one.... and it actually makes a lot of sense, that's why we can say that TS is legit... and not only for that as other things have been explained/predicted by him already.

but how do we know it's the only only one? I mean yes, it makes sense when I read it all decoded, but I think all the time that this code could have been made to fit-in with the actual situation and in a scary way it did fit. And it gives me bad feelings. What if we take the 1998 autograph and connect it with another dates, and it gives us another shocking result?

[*Mo*]

Thank you all for your opinions.

trustno1 wrote:
I see exactly where you're coming from Anna. What you're saying is how could he know so far in advance what he was going to go through in the future and plan to recreate that with the Murray character

It's exactly what I mean. Exactly.
That's why the whole timing, 20 years of planning a hoax, is still unclear and i don't believe in it. I believe, if to say my own opinion, that he could have planned all this beginning with middle of 90s, even close to Invincible. Because to me, to reach to THAT level of suffering and pain from how people treated you (2 false allegations + the public humiliation) you have to actually pass through it and that was the moment when he said "this is it". That's why i don't find any logic in the idea that he planned to fake his death since he was 28 years old, he hadn't passed through any shit, yet, at that time. That's why I say that the root of the hoax is, in my opinion, a very deep wound that pushed him to reach to this limit just to be heard.

Not sure if it's of any use to reply since you ignored my previous reply in this thread, but I will make another effort nevertheless:

He hadn't passed through any shit yet when he was 28 years old..?  Have you forgotten about the Pepsi "accident"?