Katherine Jackson Lies...

[*Mo*]

We should prob just lay off the family in general.

It's not our place to speculate on such things... you KNOW?

wink wink nudge nudge have some respect.

I agree on that Bec.  I still remember the thread you posted about the Jacksons deserving respect.  People tend to jump to conclusion while not knowing the insides outs of the complete story.  Just look at how many times Jermaine has been bashed since this whole saga started.  That's simply not the way to go.

[PJ4MJ]

NO i am not someone outside looking in.

Oh goodie...another one.  :roll:

don't bother. It's always the other one who is racist not self.
everybody else is the racist one, not mj's fans always trying to distance him from his family. when they are called out it is always the caller who is the racist one. How easy to say, "i am not racist but you seem to be the one who is racist".

Pretty ironic, actually.

[angelwings]

well from what my mother has told me, this IS how black children were raised during this time.  she is a couple of days older than michael, and she said growing up she got beat with whatever was found, water hoses, ironing cords, chains, you name it. although i think this was harsh, i see nothing wrong with spankings, beatings i am against though.

Not only in black homes....white families did the same with a belt or switch off a tree.  Also, the local grade schools and high school when I was growing up (I'm a year older than MJ) were allowed to swat you with a paddle with holes in it for getting into trouble.  Hard too!  In grade school we'd get (by the teachers) our hair pulled, ear pulled, knuckles rapped with a ruler, and verbally humiliated in front of the class for stepping out of line or doing something wrong......and the parents wouldn't say a word because they understood the teachers were in charge while the kids were at school.  Talking back to a parent or teacher or disobeying their authority was just not done.....or else.......

[MJonmind]

We all come from such different backgrounds, different ways of parenting. You don't just decide to spank or not, you generally do what you were taught by your parents, passed down. I raised my kids similarly to the way I was raised, although I tried to improve in the ways I hated my parents doing with me. It wasn't the physical in my mind, but the emotional stuff that I vowed to change. But now knowing all this stuff, I would probably advise my kids to avoid spanking their children, although I'm guessing that they probably will spank on rare occasions. We have a lot of raw emotions on this topic and racism.

The album cover to me almost seems to be an invitation to discussing skin color, like MJ thought "I'd like them to really discuss the implications of skin color in the world."
And then Oprah focusing on Joe's beatings, Katherine defending it, the the 3 kids praising Michael as a father, seems like MJ saying, "Now I'd like people to discuss all kinds of abuse, raising happy respectful children, and parenting.

This whole hoax has been one gigantic invitation from MJ for people to talk, to understand, to feel in a cross-cultural, sexual, skin-color, religious, in every aspect.

IT IS NOW I SEE AND FEEL THAT CALLING ONCE AGAIN, TO BE PART OF A MUSIC THAT WILL NOT JUST CONNECT BUT, MAKE ALL FEEL ONE, ONE IN JOY, ONE IN PAIN, ONE IN LOVE, ONE IN SERVICE AND IN CONSCIOUSNESS. MJ
Going back to the Katherine lying part, whose to say that the part about either Dileo or Murray telling her is the truth, because MJ's alive. And no one really knows what went on between Katherine and Joe as far as filing for divorce except them. Everyone in the Jackson family has been bashed at some point.  Jesus' words were, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "First take the log out of your own eye before you go take the (tiny) speck out of your brother's eye." as far as criticism and judging of others.

[Andrea]

The reason I had posted the article in this thread by Roger Friedman was to show that yes, Katherine Jackson did probably lie on the Oprah show - there were so many upset reactions from that interview and many people were losing hope that Michael is still alive and that really bothered me because for me, there is no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive.  It's funny because I have never wavered from that belief even though sometimes I just wish I could actually SEE him.  But the reason I wanted to "prove" that Katherine lied, was to illustrate that she had to, for Michael and for her family.  Her emotions were probably very genuine in the interview - she's upset with how Michael has been perceived by some and she's most likely upset that it has had to come to this, the whole hoax. But I think she understands the need for the hoax and will do whatever is in her power to help Michael.  I honestly believe the most important thing to Katherine is her family and their happiness.  But she understands that there are evil people in the world that must be stopped and if that means bending the truth on the Oprah show, then so be it.

After re-reading the article, I can sorta see why this thread turned into what it did but it still surprised me.  I understand that harsher methods of child discipline is a subject nobody can agree on, everyone was raised differently and therefore has different feelings on it.  I got the odd spanking with a wooden spoon when I was a kid but it was more the threat of the wooden spoon that would stop me in my tracks with whatever "bad" thing I might have been doing.  I don't have kids but if I did, I wouldn't harm them physically or mentally.  I honestly feel that children need the love and attention they deserve growing up and by receiving that, they are much more likely to grow up a well-rounded good person.  I was very lucky to grow up in a home knowing I was loved and protected.  I think the reason some kids these days seem so bad or undisciplined is that maybe they're neglected at home and are acting out as a way of getting attention - even if it's negative attention.  And it's doesn't matter what color your skin is - love is love.

None of us grew up in the Jackson household so we can't really say how it was or judge how they were raised (although some of us may have strong opinions).   I do know that Katherine loves her family and will do anything for them.  My opinion on Joe is that he probably feels his harsh disciplinary methods are justified because of his children's successful lives - but I am certainly not saying I agree with those methods or that Joe is right.  

Back to Oprah - I don't know why she was trying to get Joe to admit to beating his children when we already know he was a physical father that way and the majority of the people watching the interview would already know that about Joe. It took up most of her conversation with him when she could've been asking other questions that people are curious about.  Like, "Why were you promoting your record label three days after Michael died?"  I would like to hear Joe's explanation if he could've told the actual truth, that he wasn't actually grieving because his son isn't dead.

And Michael's children are proof of what a great Dad he is to them.  I bet he watched the interview with pride.  

[all4loveandbelieve]

The reason I had posted the article in this thread by Roger Friedman was to show that yes, Katherine Jackson did probably lie on the Oprah show - there were so many upset reactions from that interview and many people were losing hope that Michael is still alive and that really bothered me because for me, there is no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive.  It's funny because I have never wavered from that belief even though sometimes I just wish I could actually SEE him.  But the reason I wanted to "prove" that Katherine lied, was to illustrate that she had to, for Michael and for her family.  Her emotions were probably very genuine in the interview - she's upset with how Michael has been perceived by some and she's most likely upset that it has had to come to this, the whole hoax. But I think she understands the need for the hoax and will do whatever is in her power to help Michael.  I honestly believe the most important thing to Katherine is her family and their happiness.  But she understands that there are evil people in the world that must be stopped and if that means bending the truth on the Oprah show, then so be it.

After re-reading the article, I can sorta see why this thread turned into what it did but it still surprised me.  I understand that harsher methods of child discipline is a subject nobody can agree on, everyone was raised differently and therefore has different feelings on it.  I got the odd spanking with a wooden spoon when I was a kid but it was more the threat of the wooden spoon that would stop me in my tracks with whatever "bad" thing I might have been doing.  I don't have kids but if I did, I wouldn't harm them physically or mentally.  I honestly feel that children need the love and attention they deserve growing up and by receiving that, they are much more likely to grow up a well-rounded good person.  I was very lucky to grow up in a home knowing I was loved and protected.  I think the reason some kids these days seem so bad or undisciplined is that maybe they're neglected at home and are acting out as a way of getting attention - even if it's negative attention.  And it's doesn't matter what color your skin is - love is love.

None of us grew up in the Jackson household so we can't really say how it was or judge how they were raised (although some of us may have strong opinions).   I do know that Katherine loves her family and will do anything for them.  My opinion on Joe is that he probably feels his harsh disciplinary methods are justified because of his children's successful lives - but I am certainly not saying I agree with those methods or that Joe is right.  

Back to Oprah - I don't know why she was trying to get Joe to admit to beating his children when we already know he was a physical father that way and the majority of the people watching the interview would already know that about Joe. It took up most of her conversation with him when she could've been asking other questions that people are curious about.  Like, "Why were you promoting your record label three days after Michael died?"  I would like to hear Joe's explanation if he could've told the actual truth, that he wasn't actually grieving because his son isn't dead.

And Michael's children are proof of what a great Dad he is to them.  I bet he watched the interview with pride.  

Andrea, very well said. You are right, no one lived in the Jackson household. We cannot judge. We are basing ourselves what MJ has said in the years, that he was an abused child and even now in his 50's he is afraid of Joe. We did not dream of what he said ! So this is the outcome of what he has said. I have 2 boys who are adults now, and believe me I never hit them neither did my husband. They became good men, with good manners, and they have good hearts. We believed in punishement, removing what they love the most.  Believe me it worked. I am proud of them.. This is my opinon as a mother not as a Pshychologist. (which I am)
God bless.

[applehead250609]

We all come from such different backgrounds, different ways of parenting. You don't just decide to spank or not, you generally do what you were taught by your parents, passed down. I raised my kids similarly to the way I was raised, although I tried to improve in the ways I hated my parents doing with me. It wasn't the physical in my mind, but the emotional stuff that I vowed to change. But now knowing all this stuff, I would probably advise my kids to avoid spanking their children, although I'm guessing that they probably will spank on rare occasions. We have a lot of raw emotions on this topic and racism.

The album cover to me almost seems to be an invitation to discussing skin color, like MJ thought "I'd like them to really discuss the implications of skin color in the world."
And then Oprah focusing on Joe's beatings, Katherine defending it, the the 3 kids praising Michael as a father, seems like MJ saying, "Now I'd like people to discuss all kinds of abuse, raising happy respectful children, and parenting.

This whole hoax has been one gigantic invitation from MJ for people to talk, to understand, to feel in a cross-cultural, sexual, skin-color, religious, in every aspect.

IT IS NOW I SEE AND FEEL THAT CALLING ONCE AGAIN, TO BE PART OF A MUSIC THAT WILL NOT JUST CONNECT BUT, MAKE ALL FEEL ONE, ONE IN JOY, ONE IN PAIN, ONE IN LOVE, ONE IN SERVICE AND IN CONSCIOUSNESS. MJ
Going back to the Katherine lying part, whose to say that the part about either Dileo or Murray telling her is the truth, because MJ's alive. And no one really knows what went on between Katherine and Joe as far as filing for divorce except them. Everyone in the Jackson family has been bashed at some point.  Jesus' words were, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "First take the log out of your own eye before you go take the (tiny) speck out of your brother's eye." as far as criticism and judging of others.

Hello!!!!

Thank you very much for your post!!!
After I finished to read I was in tears.May God bless you and let me tell you that your post reminded me about Michael words from THIS IS IT:DO IT WITH LOVE,L.O.V.E.
Please my friends lets put in practice what we had learn from Michael.Please dont let the hate and negativity to cloud our minds.Lets not respond to hate with hate ,lets do it with Love ,just like Michael would do.
Like you all, I know  also that racism still exist .Im not blind and I'm aware that even in this modern days this kind of ignorance still exist.Two months ago  while I was on internet I noticed this article.Here it is:



Was Gabourey Sidibe's skin lightened for the cover of ELLE?

[attachment=0:1c69jdqe]mr_d98ce52416e58b.jpg[/attachment:1c69jdqe]

In the world of American fashion magazines, women of color have notoriously been underrepresented, pretty much since the birth of print. Ditto the plus-size population, who go almost entirely absent from the pages of big-name publications, as if they don't exist. So it was a boon for both groups this summer when ELLE magazine announced that full-figured African-American actress Gabourey Sidibe would grace the cover of its  25th anniversary issue.
For its special October edition, ELLE produced four separate covers, each one meant to celebrate a different mid-20's female star--in addition to Sidibe, 27, it included actresses Amanda Seyfried and Megan Fox and reality star/fashion entrepreneur Lauren Conrad. But here's where things got tricky:  
While each of the other three (all oft-used, not to mention skinny and Caucasian) cover girls are shown off in full-body glamour shots wearing stylish clothes, Sidibe is cropped at the mid-chest, with a swath of ruched green fabric hiding her curvy frame. Plus, her skin appears to be lighter than in most photos of the actress we've seen, which has stirred reactions on the Web.

Gabourey hits on Gerard Butler at Oscars

This is the first big fashion magazine cover for Sidibe, who became famous last year after an Oscar-nominated turn as an abused teen in the Oprah-backed film "Precious." Since then, she's received raves for her appearance on "Saturday Night Live" and a new role in the Showtime drama "The Big C." Similar claims about skin lightening were made in 2008 about the possible whitening of Beyonce's face for a L'Oréal Paris ad and in 2009 for an ad with Indian actress Freida Pinto.

Magazine explains retouched Kelly Clarkson cover

For their part, the folks at ELLE deny any dramatic lightening or retouching of their cover girl. They sent us the following statement via email: "Nothing out of the ordinary was done. We have four separate covers this month and Gabby's cover was not retouched any more or less than the others. We had 25 cover-worthy subjects in our portfolio and we chose Gabby because of who she is. We shot this as a story of exuberant young women changing the world. If you take a look at the portfolio, each of the women were shot in different ways and for different reasons."

UPDATE: On September 16 the actor's representative responded to the Elle controversy by saying, "Gabourey is absolutely thrilled to be on the cover of the magazine's 25th anniversary issue."

Hmmm. The images are above. You be the judge


I would like to say that I LOVE EVERY ONE HERE,no matter if you are BLACK OR WHITE,no matter if you are WOMAN OR MAN ,no matter if you are an ADULT OR CHILD and no matter IF you LOVE ME OR NOT, .
No matter if this ignorance about racism will continue to exist I WILL NEVER STOP TO HOPE THAT MAYBE ONE DAY WE ALL WILL BE LIKE BROTHRES AND SISTERS.Please lets HOPE that maybe one day this dream will come true.


LOVE YOU MORE
Diana.

[all4loveandbelieve]

We all come from such different backgrounds, different ways of parenting. You don't just decide to spank or not, you generally do what you were taught by your parents, passed down. I raised my kids similarly to the way I was raised, although I tried to improve in the ways I hated my parents doing with me. It wasn't the physical in my mind, but the emotional stuff that I vowed to change. But now knowing all this stuff, I would probably advise my kids to avoid spanking their children, although I'm guessing that they probably will spank on rare occasions. We have a lot of raw emotions on this topic and racism.

The album cover to me almost seems to be an invitation to discussing skin color, like MJ thought "I'd like them to really discuss the implications of skin color in the world."
And then Oprah focusing on Joe's beatings, Katherine defending it, the the 3 kids praising Michael as a father, seems like MJ saying, "Now I'd like people to discuss all kinds of abuse, raising happy respectful children, and parenting.

This whole hoax has been one gigantic invitation from MJ for people to talk, to understand, to feel in a cross-cultural, sexual, skin-color, religious, in every aspect.

IT IS NOW I SEE AND FEEL THAT CALLING ONCE AGAIN, TO BE PART OF A MUSIC THAT WILL NOT JUST CONNECT BUT, MAKE ALL FEEL ONE, ONE IN JOY, ONE IN PAIN, ONE IN LOVE, ONE IN SERVICE AND IN CONSCIOUSNESS. MJ
Going back to the Katherine lying part, whose to say that the part about either Dileo or Murray telling her is the truth, because MJ's alive. And no one really knows what went on between Katherine and Joe as far as filing for divorce except them. Everyone in the Jackson family has been bashed at some point.  Jesus' words were, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "First take the log out of your own eye before you go take the (tiny) speck out of your brother's eye." as far as criticism and judging of others.

Hello!!!!

Thank you very much for your post!!!
After I finished to read I was in tears.May God bless you and let me tell you that your post reminded me about Michael words from THIS IS IT:DO IT WITH LOVE,L.O.V.E.
Please my friends lets put in practice what we had learn from Michael.Please dont let the hate and negativity to cloud our minds.Lets not respond to hate with hate ,lets do it with Love ,just like Michael would do.
Like you all, I know  also that racism still exist .Im not blind and I'm aware that even in this modern days this kind of ignorance still exist.Two months ago  while I was on internet I noticed this article.Here it is:



Was Gabourey Sidibe's skin lightened for the cover of ELLE?

[attachment=0:3mcigw3k]mr_d98ce52416e58b.jpg[/attachment:3mcigw3k]

In the world of American fashion magazines, women of color have notoriously been underrepresented, pretty much since the birth of print. Ditto the plus-size population, who go almost entirely absent from the pages of big-name publications, as if they don't exist. So it was a boon for both groups this summer when ELLE magazine announced that full-figured African-American actress Gabourey Sidibe would grace the cover of its  25th anniversary issue.
For its special October edition, ELLE produced four separate covers, each one meant to celebrate a different mid-20's female star--in addition to Sidibe, 27, it included actresses Amanda Seyfried and Megan Fox and reality star/fashion entrepreneur Lauren Conrad. But here's where things got tricky:  
While each of the other three (all oft-used, not to mention skinny and Caucasian) cover girls are shown off in full-body glamour shots wearing stylish clothes, Sidibe is cropped at the mid-chest, with a swath of ruched green fabric hiding her curvy frame. Plus, her skin appears to be lighter than in most photos of the actress we've seen, which has stirred reactions on the Web.

Gabourey hits on Gerard Butler at Oscars

This is the first big fashion magazine cover for Sidibe, who became famous last year after an Oscar-nominated turn as an abused teen in the Oprah-backed film "Precious." Since then, she's received raves for her appearance on "Saturday Night Live" and a new role in the Showtime drama "The Big C." Similar claims about skin lightening were made in 2008 about the possible whitening of Beyonce's face for a L'Oréal Paris ad and in 2009 for an ad with Indian actress Freida Pinto.

Magazine explains retouched Kelly Clarkson cover

For their part, the folks at ELLE deny any dramatic lightening or retouching of their cover girl. They sent us the following statement via email: "Nothing out of the ordinary was done. We have four separate covers this month and Gabby's cover was not retouched any more or less than the others. We had 25 cover-worthy subjects in our portfolio and we chose Gabby because of who she is. We shot this as a story of exuberant young women changing the world. If you take a look at the portfolio, each of the women were shot in different ways and for different reasons."

UPDATE: On September 16 the actor's representative responded to the Elle controversy by saying, "Gabourey is absolutely thrilled to be on the cover of the magazine's 25th anniversary issue."

Hmmm. The images are above. You be the judge


I would like to say that I LOVE EVERY ONE HERE,no matter if you are BLACK OR WHITE,no matter if you are WOMAN OR MAN ,no matter if you are an ADULT OR CHILD and no matter IF you LOVE ME OR NOT, .
No matter if this ignorance about racism will continue to exist I WILL NEVER STOP TO HOPE THAT MAYBE ONE DAY WE ALL WILL BE LIKE BROTHRES AND SISTERS.Please lets HOPE that maybe one day this dream will come true.


LOVE YOU MORE
Diana.

You do not need to have a different skin color to be racist. You can be overweight, ugly or out of the norm of this society, and they are racist. I say live and let live. Be who you are and love yourself, because there will be no one who can love you like you can.. except for your parents. LOVE IS THE KEY WORD AND EVERYONE WILL ACCEPT EVERYONE.

[paula-c]

This thread "smells of racism" that bad this discussion by skin color :?