This is DEFINITELY not Mike.

[wandulka]

Ok, but if this one is not MJ, which is the intention on use doubles. I do not understand, I never dealt, what are the gains for the hoax death theory with this conclusion.

I have no idea, but since doubles are such a popular topic, I thought it's ok to post it, because we don't know what's related to the hoax and what's not, right?  

[wandulka]

Klein was reconstructing Michael's face..sometimes he even wore band aids on his nose. I still think it is him.

You cant change a face in 3 weeks and let your patient jumping and dancing around just a few days after a surgery

BTW is it the light or is his jaw smaller? and well let me gi with the rest(eyebrows etc)

His whole face looks kind of...different, LMAO   Seriously, the cheek bones, mouth, eye brows, expression, nose..it's not him..

[Leah-Kim]

Klein was reconstructing Michael's face..sometimes he even wore band aids on his nose. I still think it is him.

That picture is obviously not MJ or a recently reconstructed MJ its just not him and its obvious...Sorry but it really is obviously NOT him....

[Happy Feet]

I've seen the movie a few times too and I believe doubles were used. My husband who isn't even an MJ fan but grew up with him and the Jackson 5 picked out the times he thought weren't Michael either (this was without my prompting or even mentioning I believe there were doubles). His exact words were "Is that Michael? cause he dances diferently...."

I think doubles were used, mainly based on some of their appearances BUT more so their movements. If you have grown up with Michael many would notice that his dance moves were very sharp and distinct. His movements flowed but always with an edge of sharpness to them. At other times (and this was the times I think doubles were used) they were more flimsy and floppy. They weren't as controlled. There bodies didn't move the way Michaels did.  If you ever see the movie again, check for this.

Michaels presence, whether singing and dancing on the stage is very unique and distinct to him alone. That wasn't the case in all the people on stage presented as Michael during the TII. I know others believe they were all Michael and hey I respect that opinion. I'm just sharing my point of view here like you.

Thankyou you took the words out of my mouth... For 30 yrs i have watched this man and i know some of the "MJS" in TII were not him... And i dont want to sound like a "know it all" but for me to see which ones are not him was  very easy even when they switched up with quick editing between the fake and real Michael...Actually the first time i watched TII i was really angry and couldnt enjoy it because the first 15 minutes were crawling with doubles in an out of shots...

Yes I know what you mean with all the splicing and editing going on at the beginning. When that was happening the first thing that crossed my mind was "what's going on here?".  That made me pay even more attention to detail. Even with all that splicing and quick changes I noticed what I believed were doubles.  I've followed MJ for 20 years + and just from my observations I don't believe they were all him.  Michael's sharpness and distinction in his movements are unique. That sharpness was not present in the movement at times (the non-MJ ones)

[Leah-Kim]

Well i have been saying since i saw the trailers b4 the movie came out and b4 Joe said there were doubles that i thought some of the trailers looked a little "Off"... This picture here is just massive proof , i mean its obviously not MJ and still some people choose to argue that it is!! I feel like screaming but hey at least if we were in a room with those people and a load of fake MJS and one real one we would run to the real one without hesitation!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Happy Feet]

Klein was reconstructing Michael's face..sometimes he even wore band aids on his nose. I still think it is him.

You cant change a face in 3 weeks and let your patient jumping and dancing around just a few days after a surgery

BTW is it the light or is his jaw smaller? and well let me gi with the rest(eyebrows etc)

His whole face looks kind of...different, LMAO   Seriously, the cheek bones, mouth, eye brows, expression, nose..it's not him..

Agree. Mild plastic surgery to the face has downtime for healing, so facial reconstruction would of taken weeks to heal. If he had facial reconstruction (even just the nose) it would of taken more than just the spasmodic use of a facial mask to hide this. There would of been bruising and swelling and not to mention scarring during the healing process. There is enough photos from 02 announcement until the supposed time of Michaels death to prove that this didn't take place.

[Harleyblonde]

I've seen the movie a few times too and I believe doubles were used. My husband who isn't even an MJ fan but grew up with him and the Jackson 5 picked out the times he thought weren't Michael either (this was without my prompting or even mentioning I believe there were doubles). His exact words were "Is that Michael? cause he dances diferently...."

I think doubles were used, mainly based on some of their appearances BUT more so their movements. If you have grown up with Michael many would notice that his dance moves were very sharp and distinct. His movements flowed but always with an edge of sharpness to them. At other times (and this was the times I think doubles were used) they were more flimsy and floppy. They weren't as controlled. There bodies didn't move the way Michaels did.  If you ever see the movie again, check for this.

Michaels presence, whether singing and dancing on the stage is very unique and distinct to him alone. That wasn't the case in all the people on stage presented as Michael during the TII. I know others believe they were all Michael and hey I respect that opinion. I'm just sharing my point of view here like you.

Thankyou you took the words out of my mouth... For 30 yrs i have watched this man and i know some of the "MJS" in TII were not him... And i dont want to sound like a "know it all" but for me to see which ones are not him was  very easy even when they switched up with quick editing between the fake and real Michael...Actually the first time i watched TII i was really angry and couldnt enjoy it because the first 15 minutes were crawling with doubles in an out of shots...

I agree with the above. The first time I saw the film I was quite disappointed with some of the dancing and then I realized it was not really energetic dancing so his age would not come into it and he just did not move like he always has, he did not have the edge, the fluidity that Michael had and it is something you never lose, like riding a bike-you never forget. He had his own graceful but sexy fluid way of moving and this "Michael" made me cringe. At first I actually felt sorry for him and thought he had lost the ability to always "shine" (he did always shine-every song, every move) and then it dawned on me it was not actually him. Without even studying his face we can establish it wasn't all Michael in the film. Can't wait for the DVD-we can study and pause etc.
What does this mean though? Why have they got standins? Why was Michael not able to do it all? Was he elsewhere? Was he tired or ill? Was he arranging all for the hoax? Was he dependant on drugs?  Was he getting his face altered for the hoax and had only filmed so much and had to get the lookalike to do the rest? Is it because someone terminally ill did actually die in his place and was not far from the end and Michael had to move fast? We can know it isn't all him in the movie but we need a reason why. Any ideas guys?

[Invincible7]

This is DEFINITELY MIKE and no one else
Guys, come-on, are you all serious or just kiddin`, huh?

[Leah-Kim]

Harleyblonde  i have been wondering the same thing  but unfortunatley these threads about doubles always end up in a" Its is him ""No its not" fight and we never discuss the why!!!!!!!

I think the terminally ill guy who was dying in place of MJ is a good theory i think he died a little too soon and unexpected...

Or MJ really did die and they needed the stand in to fill the gaps of the footage they had.... (I HATE THIS IDEA)

Something worth noting here is that NONE of the stand ins appear in TII booklet (Or orange pants etc) its all MJ with the Red shirt on which is 100 % him.. I think thats a clue right there that they used doubles so i think they want us to know... Just cant figure out why!!!

[wandulka]

This is DEFINITELY MIKE and no one else
Guys, come-on, are you all serious or just kiddin`, huh?

We're serious. Many of us don't believe in the twin/double theory (me neither), but I have to admit that is not him in the picture.

[awesome1]

now im going to throw in the AppleheadJoe YouTube page into this slightly.  if like me, perople belive this was mike, which really is hard to decided wether it is or not... but i was reading the goodbye message again for it and came across a few things in it

"Body doubles have been used.
But were they used for me?"

and...

"Some rehearsals date back, quite far."

now if this was mike and he was saying this...... how far back could the rehersals could have been???..... could they have been before April???, which really is what clicked when i looked at that pic of MJ in the orange trousers....like i mean in the movie its is MJ through and through, and the dancing.. he was 50 years of age, his body was ageing and i think he ws only doing what his body would allow him to do, and it was only rehersal, who goes all out in a rehersal?

but remember the stories that came about before the month of june... that MJ wasnt showing up for rehersals as he was not eating and was getting scared about returning to the world?? but im sure that they DID have a backup that they could use just for positioning purposes and some other stuff, just incase MJ couldnt make it, like just to keep things on track.

and this just hit me..... could this be the stunt double used in Smooth Criminal Mini  Video???

[Leah-Kim]

It could be the stunt double however usually a stand in and a stunt double would be considered seperate jobs.. ( You dont want the stand in to also get hurt doing a stunt)  Its possinle MJ is in the audience directing the stand in so he can see how it looks from the audience but not sure why the stand in would have needed to be in FULL make up and costume!! Plus this pic is from the Movie trailer........All i know is that its definitly not MJ in that picture....

[O-drey-O]

Well, if they did use doubles just to see how it looked on stage etc etc... why do they show them in the MOVIE ?? Plus telling us it's Michael??

As for the why ... I believe in the Appleheadhjoe account too... Maybe Michael had to hide before the end of rehearsals, and that doubles had to finish them, in order to have the movie done ? That's why Michael would have said
"Some rehearsals date back, quite far." and "Body doubles have been used.
But were they used for me?" (they were used for AEG to finish the movie and earn money?)

don't know, I'm all confused lol

[Nathalia]

In my opinion I am convinced that this man is not Michael. They don't have the same facial structure at all.
But I have to agree with what was stated above, maybe AEG did hire doubles for the movie because Michael was not there for rehearsals everyday- they even stated that in the movie. So what if AEG did hire stand-ins while Michael was attending to other matters?

[lucrecia]

Not trying to put words in Lucrecia's mouth but I understood her question to be how does using doubles at some points in TII contribute to the hoax theory?

 Thanks for your help! My english is terrible....