The Michael Jackson/Lisa Marie Presley marriage certificate

[MissG]

This has nothing to do with love. It has to do with legal documents names and signatures not corresponding to the official legal ones.

We are not discussing if MJ loved Lisa  :?  we are discussing their signatures and legal names on that "legal" document, the wedding certificate.

[MsTrinity333]

This has nothing to do with love. It has to do with legal documents names and signatures not corresponding to the official legal ones.

We are not discussing if MJ loved Lisa  :?  we are discussing their signatures and legal names on that "legal" document, the wedding certificate.

Yes but you implied I was the one judging people & making judgmental statements...

[MissG]

Your own words  :roll:

   

MsTrinity333 wrote:As I said. I used to be a Portrait Photographer; I know how to read people. No fantasy required.
    I've given two links & the legal definition. One with both signatures and a seal, and the new one. The burden of proof is not mine.
    Some people will refuse to believe regardless of evidence, even from the horses mouth; what ever, it's not my job to convince you.
    Some can't forgive the past; even if it's PapCrap or twisted, edited interviews. That's human nature in motion I suppose...

    Where's the L.O.V.E.?


    If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...

[MsTrinity333]

Your own words  :roll:

   

MsTrinity333 wrote:As I said. I used to be a Portrait Photographer; I know how to read people. No fantasy required.
    I've given two links & the legal definition. One with both signatures and a seal, and the new one. The burden of proof is not mine.
    Some people will refuse to believe regardless of evidence, even from the horses mouth; what ever, it's not my job to convince you.
    Some can't forgive the past; even if it's PapCrap or twisted, edited interviews. That's human nature in motion I suppose...

    Where's the L.O.V.E.?


    If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...

As I said in response to a post of someone who said they were objective and didn't need to "fantasize" their relationship:
I used to be a Portrait Photographer; Fact.  I know how to read people. No fantasy required. Lisa has proved her love in her O interview.
The burden of proof isn't mine; people are making some good points & allegations yet I've seen no LEGAL evidence that the documents we are talking about are fake. I've talked to and posted information given to me from someone in the field. She says they are valid. When more comes out addressing the spelling inconsistencies & whether they are a factor...........I"ll post it.  
Some can't forgive... That's a fact.  Did I name anyone personally?  

Judgmental response?  :roll:

My points are valid.

Where's the L.O.V.E.?

[paula-c]

MsTrinity333, one question, a document is legal where all the names of the involved persons be bad written or they have all " mistakes of spelling ".

[MsTrinity333]

MsTrinity333, one question, a document is legal where all the names of the involved persons be bad written or they have all " mistakes of spelling ".

That's what I'm looking into; I'm waiting to hear from my legal Spanish friend who works in the field...
Is it spelling errors from the difference in languages lost in translation?  Is it legal birth names vs show business names?...such as a legal change in Michael's middle name?  Stars & entertainers do this all the time. This would be why MJ's passport says Joe instead of Joseph.  But Does it have any impact on the legality of certain documents?  Maybe; maybe not.  This is what I'm asking her.  She's having a hard time with the second document because it's small & the bottom of the picture is cropped off.  I haven't been able to locate a better picture, but if you look to the right margin it looks like there's a second page.  This may be where all the missing information is. Being the private people they were it's possible this will never be released because of it's sensitive nature. Not because there's anything to hide, but because It's none of our business what all the legal details of their contract are.  Both have said it was a real marriage.  So until these documents are proven fakes I have no reason to question them.

[MissG]

According to the Spanish law, your name legally is the name of your passport and there is no place for a mistake.

If an official document is displaying wrongly your legal name and differs from your passport name there can be consequences.

I have a hard time to believe that an authority would spell wrongly a name wich is supossed to be taken from ones ID.

[paula-c]

Also in Venezuelan law documents the names should have no errors, all documents passport, identity card, driver's license, military registration must be true and exact copy of the birth certificate.
A while back I had problems with driver's license in the office where the processed exchanged a letter of my name, put an "s" instead of "z".
Maybe the artist change their names but not legal artistic purposes.

[MsTrinity333]

Are you a lawyer?  Have you talked to one dealing in these matters?  
This could vary country by country.  MJ & LMP were not a citizens of that country... So does that have a baring?  Is there an international standard?  These are questions I'm asking my legal friend.  This issue of Joe vs Joseph has been debated on other threads in this forum.  Here's what I've found so far:

What is defined as one's legal name? 09/19/07 - Category: - Name Change - State:Alabama #8876
Full Question:

What is defined as one's legal name? This is in regards to the Federal I.D. Act of 2005, renewing driver's license. The individual has been called by her middle name since birth while most legal documents are signed using her middle name, maiden family name and husband's family name. I was told by social security office that only the first name on a birth certificate is considered the legal name and the middle name is considered a "nickname"! If so, why have a middle name on birth certificate?

Answer; A legal name varies by state. Generally, the federal government recognizes the name change orders of each state. However, for purposes of the Real I.D. Act, the federal government has yet to issue a definition for legal name. It will likely do so, due to the variance among states for legal name requirements. For example, in California, a legal name may be acquired by usage, so that if a person uses their middle name since birth, that could be considered a legal name under California law.
And this from another law firm regarding "legal names"

Do not want to bother changing my name. Can I just use different versions of my name or initials?

Yes. Generally, it is sufficient to describe a person by any known or acceptable abbreviation of her name, and that includes initials. All states consider a person’s name to be her first and last name, allowing the substitution of either the correct initials or full middle name.

Can I start signing documents with my nickname?

Yes, as long as your nickname is commonly derived from your first name. For example, if your first name is William, it is acceptable to sign Bill on your documents. Your nickname must clearly identify you or the court will require additional proof that you are the person represented by the nickname in the event of any misunderstanding as to identity. To avoid any such misunderstandings, it is better to sign any important legal documents with your full name.

Up until now I have always used my middle name. Can I just stop using it?

Yes. The law favors first names-middle names are not considered important. Additionally, if a middle name is omitted from your signature, it is of no consequence your signature is still valid.

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His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably.  So it seems you can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.

[paula-c]

MsTrinity333 do not alter, not, I am not an  lawyer
and if you read any post there are opinions of people of diverse countries.
 Trying to put itself in clearly for that there are so many inconsistencies in all the documents that they have to see with Michael.

[jacilovesmichael]

I think it's important to keep in mind that Michael's name is not the only name in question on the documents. Just about everyone invovled on the documents have their names misspelled. That is what makes me question the authenticity of them. Everytime I've had to fill out a document, I have always been asked to verify the information as being correct. If there is an error, it is fixed right away before submission. If accuracy is important for my documents, little ol' me, then I would imagine accuracy to be of utmost importance for celebrities, when so much money and public scrutiny is involved. But this has been pointed out many times... Mo's post a few pages back shows what I am talking about.

Also, even if the marriage wasn't legal doesn't mean they weren't in love and didn't live like they were married. Heck, some people live together their whole lives and never get married. Only the two of them know the truth about their relationship. Who knows, maybe there were certain motives at first having to do with Elvis and the hoax, and maybe they ended up falling in love despite the original intentions. Things like that happen all the time. And that could be why LMP always seems to fickle when it comes to Michael. She probably has mixed feelings.

Let's try to discuss this a bit more objectively and not take things so personal.  

[MsTrinity333]

Did anyone stop to think that maybe Michael copy wrote his name under Joe and Joseph? You can do that.  
Even if the only true name is the name that is written on a birth certificate, official documents often contain misspellings in the name, even death certificates. Death certificates often contain the name the person was known for or how they used to call themselves. an alternate name or name spelling does NOT make a certificate/ document less valid.

Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is irrelevant. For example; If the name on his birth certificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. A name can be different on a death certificate or other legal documents from that on a birth certificate... He may have used the name "Joe" whenever he pleased on other legal documents such as his driver license, that is not uncommon. Joe is short for Joseph. Mike is short for Michael.  How the errors happen? Some people may abbreviate their birth name because they don't like the full name. Or that is how their parents and family would call them. The law favors first names-middle names are not considered important.  His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. So it seems you can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.

But I'm still interested in what my legal friend says about the whole thing inc. the other misspellings.  I'll post it when I do.

[*Mo*]

According to the Spanish law, your name legally is the name of your passport and there is no place for a mistake.

If an official document is displaying wrongly your legal name and differs from your passport name there can be consequences.

I have a hard time to believe that an authority would spell wrongly a name wich is supossed to be taken from ones ID.

Also in Venezuelan law documents the names should have no errors, all documents passport, identity card, driver's license, military registration must be true and exact copy of the birth certificate.
A while back I had problems with driver's license in the office where the processed exchanged a letter of my name, put an "s" instead of "z".
Maybe the artist change their names but not legal artistic purposes.

Here in The Netherlands it's the same, and it even goes as far as criminal cases being terminated due to a wrongly spelled name of the defendant on the indictment, a so called procedural error.  The name on official papers HAS to match the legal name.  If not, the documents are not valid and actions taken upon wrongly spelled documents are dismisses.

[MissG]

The name on official papers HAS to match the legal name.  If not, the documents are not valid and actions taken upon wrongly spelled documents are dismisses.[/b]

Yep!

[MsTrinity333]

But we are dealing with two US citizens & a marriage in the Dominican Republic; not European or South American citizens, so that may not apply.  There's a reason people go there for quick divorces etc.  This is what we need to weed out.  This is what I'm asking my legal friend who does this.

The law favors first names-middle names are not considered important. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. So it seems you can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.  An alternate name or name spelling does NOT make a certificate/ document less valid.

Consider three 3 Possibilities:
1: He was born as Michael JOE Jackson You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
2: He was born as Michael JOSEPH Jackson, and changed his name into Michael JOE Jackson.
3: Or Michael copy wrote his name under Joe and Joseph & possibly has more than one passport.  

This could be for many reasons like separating the performer from the man.  
When talking about SONY he said they didn't think this performer would out THINK them...
Michael is what Liz called shrewd.  a : marked by clever discerning awareness and hardheaded acumen <shrewd common sense>
b : given to wily and artful ways or dealing <a shrewd operator>  :lol:

For every album Michael put out he could easily write a hundred songs; so there's much more out there we've never heard. With a career going back to the Jackson 5, and creative genius as extensive as that I know I would do everything possible to protect my assets   :lol:    
Esp with people like Tommy Mottola & the snake Sneddon running around. Look what happened to Prince.  I'd Copyright every variation of my name I ever used or published under.  Diversify, diversify, diversify.

Some other info.
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