Michael And the Illuminati

[diggyon]

Hi everyone,

I found this video on youtube so i thought is might be interesting for you to watch.
Sorry, if it is a double post!


[youtube:2pbhd4gj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7SD_Ikf3k&feature=fvw[/youtube:2pbhd4gj]

[PJ4MJ]

I completely disagree with the one guy's theory of the big star on Michael's shirt in the Blame It On The Boogie video.  He claims the pentagon is a sign Michael sold his soul to satanism, but the pentagon has good and evil representations (dualism).  The star on Michael's shirt is upright, with one point up:

"When pointing up, the pentagram can represent spirituality's dominance over the material (pentagram) bound inside the laws of the cosmos (circle). The upside-down facing pentagram, meanwhile, represents the physical world ruling over the spiritual, and has therefore been associated with dark magic."

"Satanists use a pentagram with two points up, often inscribed in a double circle, with the head of a goat inside the pentagram. This is referred to as the Sigil of Baphomet. They use it much the same way as the Pythagoreans, as Tartaros literally translates from Greek as a "Pit" or "Void" in Christian terminology (the word is used as such in the Bible, referring to the place where the fallen angels are fettered). The Pythagorean Greek letters are most often replaced by the Hebrew letters לויתן forming the name Leviathan. Less esoteric LaVeyan Satanists use it as a sign of rebellion or religious identification, the three downward points symbolising rejection of the holy Trinity and the horns pointing up in defiance of conventional religious (spiritual) dogma."

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From the same article, I noticed this:

"Order of the Eastern Star
The Order of the Eastern Star, a fraternal organization associated with Freemasonry, has employed a point-down pentagram as its symbol, with the five isosceles triangles of the points colored red, blue, yellow, white and green. This is an older form of the order's emblem and it is now more commonly depicted with the central pentagon rotated 36° so that it is no longer strictly a pentagram."
[attachment=0:33focg3j]Order of the Eastern Star.jpg[/attachment:33focg3j]

[PJ4MJ]

My conclusions about Zabach:  He either cannot do basic research on the topics he professes to know so much about, or he is an agent of misinformation.

[suspicious mind]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

[SoldierofLOVE]

My conclusions about Zabach:  He either cannot do basic research on the topics he professes to know so much about, or he is an agent of misinformation.

I think they're knowledgeable about NWO and all, but they have little information about how knowledgeable MJ was as well.  They're probably right about the music industry in general, they just don't know that MJ grew up and learned the truth and is outsmarting everyone in the process, "we're taking over.  we know the truth... this is my plan, baby..."

[PJ4MJ]

My conclusions about Zabach:  He either cannot do basic research on the topics he professes to know so much about, or he is an agent of misinformation.

I think they're knowledgeable about NWO and all, but they have little information about how knowledgeable MJ was as well.  They're probably right about the music industry in general, they just don't know that MJ grew up and learned the truth and is outsmarting everyone in the process, "we're taking over.  we know the truth... this is my plan, baby..."

The statement you quoted from me was actually a footnote to my first, longer post right before it (I just didn't get to the edit button in time  ).   I believe Zabach has basic knowledge of NWO and the music industry, but he is way off on what the star on Michael's shirt meant.  At that point in time, Michael may have just liked the shirt.  Who knows for sure?  But if it did have a message, it surely wasn't satanism.  I'm fairly new to all this NWO symbolism stuff but even I know an upright star does not scream, "I sold my soul to the Devil."  Zabach may believe differently, but I think his statements reduce his credibility on such matters.  What bothers me more is that others may take his statements at face value and not verify what he's saying; hence, the possibility that he is an agent of misinformation.

I agree with you that MJ learned the truth and has been outsmarting everyone ever since.  I don't believe Michael was ever consciously involved with the evil side of the industry.  The moment he "saw behind the curtain," I believe he vowed to oppose all of it.   As you say, Zabach might not realize that.  Perhaps that's why he misinterprets the star.

[PJ4MJ]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

[suspicious mind]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

i have seen quite a few older cars running around (no doubt on their second and third owner) with worn out fish symbols on them. i have serious doubt the people driving them realize that they are a christian symbols or they really don't care.

i get the feeling that folks have a tendency to only think of something as mind control if it goes against something that they agree with. my 2cents.

[PJ4MJ]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

I have seen quite a few older cars running around (no doubt on their second and third owner) with worn out fish symbols on them. i have serious doubt the people driving them realize that they are a christian symbols or they really don't care.

i get the feeling that folks have a tendency to only think of something as mind control if it goes against something that they agree with. my 2cents.

I'm not saying that the people who are part of that order all know what the symbolism means or that they are supporters of it.  There's been a lot said about freemasonry, too, that may or may not be true (depending on what you believe), but I don't think every man who joins knows or takes an interest in those things.  Same can be said for this hoax.  Everyone can't be "in the know."  Back to the order...I do think there are some who do know and would advertise because, as you said, most people walking around won't realize the meaning or don't really care to know.

I don't think we're really in disagreement here.  Different beliefs about Illuminati/NWO, maybe.

[PJ4MJ]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

I have seen quite a few older cars running around (no doubt on their second and third owner) with worn out fish symbols on them. i have serious doubt the people driving them realize that they are a christian symbols or they really don't care.

i get the feeling that folks have a tendency to only think of something as mind control if it goes against something that they agree with. my 2cents.

I'm not saying that the people who are part of that order all know what the symbolism means or that they are supporters of it.  There's been a lot said about freemasonry, too, that may or may not be true (depending on what you believe), but I don't think every man who joins knows or takes an interest in those things.  Same can be said for this hoax.  Everyone can't be "in the know."  Back to the order...I do think there are some who do know and would advertise because, as you said, most people walking around won't realize the meaning or don't really care to know.

I don't think we're really in disagreement here.  Different beliefs about Illuminati/NWO, maybe.

I think I missed some of what you were trying to say the first time I responded - that maybe I jumped on the Order's upside-down pentagram because it can represent satanism; whereas I might not ever think twice about the ischthys ("Jesus fish") because I'm a Christian (which, in fact, I am).

It's a fair observation.  However, I haven't been able to find anything on the duality of the ischthys.  There are pre-Christian (sexuality, fertility) and non-Christian (Alfa Romeo auto brand) meanings, but none that are of a wholly opposite nature to the Christian meaning.  If there were and I cared, I would be sure to use the one that accurately represents my message or beliefs.

I can't believe that an organization "comprised of persons with spiritual values" that was founded "using the beautiful and inspiring Biblical examples of heroic conduct and moral values" would not recognize the popular symbolic meaning of a point-down pentagram that they've chosen to represent their order.
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The picture in my first post is actually their old logo.  Here's the current one with the pentagram inscribed within a double circle:
[attachment=0:3spuqn73]220px-Oes_GGC_color.PNG[/attachment:3spuqn73]
So actually, they exchanged a plain pentagram symbol, which could have several possible meanings, for one that is almost always (if not always) attributed to satanism.  Some of the newer members may be ignorant, but the long-standing members and leaders surely know.

[suspicious mind]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

i can see that now but not back then . besides it is just a big ol shiny star that looks like it should have   .

[PJ4MJ]

me thinks if this were the case they wouldn't advertise

Maybe...but how many symbols are out in plain view and people still don't catch the real meaning?  That's pretty much the standard MO of the Illuminati/NWO.  

i can see that now but not back then . besides it is just a big ol shiny star that looks like it should have   .

Oh, the shirt!  Yeah...