Mr Michael Jackson NOT mr. nice guy?

[liegi]

That's the first time I've heard anything about Quincy Jones and sex rings (re: Professor Griff). What's that all about?? Tupac was engaged to Quincy Jones' daughter and Quincy Jones wanted to.....? What?
I get the impression that Quincy Jones is not happy about something going on with the Michael Jackson estate. Why would he be making these comments about bleaching creams (he has also mentioned chemical peels in a previous interview).  There must have been rancor between them.
I don't doubt Michael was a tough dude. How else could you perform before thousands of people?  But he was a professional with a lot of self-control. He just never let us see what he was going through (maybe a bit during the trial).
Concerning vitiligo. It's amazing how many people actually have it. It's not that rare.  Doesn't Michael's son have it too?
An interesting discussion.

[Glinda]

Interesting comment.

I think there is a big chance the poster is right about some stuff, although I am sure that even the people that worked with him, didn't really know him. But I do think he was a pain in the ass sometimes and I have said that many times. We can't all be nice 24/7, ALL of us have a 'dark' side, so does Mike. I think that if he wanted something, he got it, however and whenever. Add to that that he was fucked many times by a lot of snakes, that really changes your attitude as well. I can't blame him, it's human nature. If I would always say what I really thought... Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances and I think he was good at that.

The vitiligo is also something that's bugging me. I am not so sure that it is because he didn't want to be black. Maybe they did something in his make-up. I have discussed this with Mo a few times and although I know vitiligo can spread fast as hell, there is one thing bugging me. He had a spot on his hand (make-up on the hand for mixing and comparing to the color of your skin) and face and neck. Places where the make-up was applied. There are a few possibilities:

1. They put poison in his foundation that distroyed his pigment.
2. He really has vitiligo and for some reason he never had the brown parts around the eyes that other vitiligo patients have or he used theatrical make-up to cover it up (this we should see on pictures, because that make-up is really thick).
3. This poster is right and he did have an illness that made him think being black made him ugly.

To me there is no option where he just didn't want to be black, I don't believe that becoming white was his own fault. I also don't believe he didn't want his children to be black. But the continuing smooth skin color of his face through the years bugs me. I think option 2 isn't even a far fetched thought ...

Anyway, I think there is a lot we don't know about the man.

Dont forget the allergy to thorazine.
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[~Souza~]

That's the first time I've heard anything about Quincy Jones and sex rings (re: Professor Griff). What's that all about?? Tupac was engaged to Quincy Jones' daughter and Quincy Jones wanted to.....? What?
I get the impression that Quincy Jones is not happy about something going on with the Michael Jackson estate. Why would he be making these comments about bleaching creams (he has also mentioned chemical peels in a previous interview).  There must have been rancor between them.
I don't doubt Michael was a tough dude. How else could you perform before thousands of people?  But he was a professional with a lot of self-control. He just never let us see what he was going through (maybe a bit during the trial).
Concerning vitiligo. It's amazing how many people actually have it. It's not that rare.  Doesn't Michael's son have it too?
An interesting discussion.

Many people have vitiligo, but it is the smoothness of his skin color on his face through the years that is not that common with vitiligo. I have the horrible feeling that it was poison that caused it and it might as well have been put in his make-up. It would explain why we never saw the brown patches on the face around the eyes like we see with other vitiligo patients. It would explain why it was in his neck as well and it would explain the spot on his hand.

Quincy might just have a grudge against Mike because Mike could turn anything into gold. Quincy might have been a respectable singer himself, but never did what Mike did. I think many are jealous of his talent, but I think most will never admit that. Mike is a genius and he knows he is, otherwise he wouldn't have the balls to pull this off.

[rag doll]

I´m bi-racial too, if you may say so. I don´t know details about his private or professional relationship to Quincy Jones so I won´t comment on that part. But even if MJ changed his complexion for whatever reason - why does that make him a "bad" guy?
I really don´t get the whole ongoing fuss about that.

In my local afro-american beauty shop are whole shelves filled with products, cremes etc. to bleach your skin, freely available to buy for anyone - I assume there wouldn´t be such a market if there were no demand. It´s presumtuous to judge people who make use of that and it´s furthermore absurd to make conclusions about their character.
Anyone else here who uses hair dyes? Shouldn´t we feel guilty that we mess around with nature?  *sigh* :roll:

[~Souza~]

Interesting comment.

I think there is a big chance the poster is right about some stuff, although I am sure that even the people that worked with him, didn't really know him. But I do think he was a pain in the ass sometimes and I have said that many times. We can't all be nice 24/7, ALL of us have a 'dark' side, so does Mike. I think that if he wanted something, he got it, however and whenever. Add to that that he was fucked many times by a lot of snakes, that really changes your attitude as well. I can't blame him, it's human nature. If I would always say what I really thought... Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances and I think he was good at that.

The vitiligo is also something that's bugging me. I am not so sure that it is because he didn't want to be black. Maybe they did something in his make-up. I have discussed this with Mo a few times and although I know vitiligo can spread fast as hell, there is one thing bugging me. He had a spot on his hand (make-up on the hand for mixing and comparing to the color of your skin) and face and neck. Places where the make-up was applied. There are a few possibilities:

1. They put poison in his foundation that distroyed his pigment.
2. He really has vitiligo and for some reason he never had the brown parts around the eyes that other vitiligo patients have or he used theatrical make-up to cover it up (this we should see on pictures, because that make-up is really thick).
3. This poster is right and he did have an illness that made him think being black made him ugly.

To me there is no option where he just didn't want to be black, I don't believe that becoming white was his own fault. I also don't believe he didn't want his children to be black. But the continuing smooth skin color of his face through the years bugs me. I think option 2 isn't even a far fetched thought ...

Anyway, I think there is a lot we don't know about the man.

Dont forget the allergy to thorazine.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Thanks for the reminder!

Dermatological reactions are frequently observed. In fact three types of skin disorders are observed: hypersensitivity reaction, contact dermatitis, and photosensitivity. During long-term therapy in schizophrenic patients chlorpromazine can induce abnormal pigmentation of the skin. This can be manifested as gray-blue pigmentation in regions exposed to sunlight.
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An that's just a side-effect. Imagine what it can do to your skin when you're allergic.

[dontmakeitfactual]

Serenitys, brilliant post -as always. I agree with you, 'credibility' is the word here.
We all want to keep an open mind all the time, which is brilliant, and specially when we are told not very nice things about Mike, we want to make it clear that our open mindedness is real, so of course let's not dismiss someone just because he is not talking nice things.
BUT
It did surprise me a bit that we gave him that much consideration all of a sudden. I mean, he could be anyone, and honestly, he's pretty much saying what tabloids have been saying for years -and I think we have all repeatedly stated how much we trust them, right???

What I mean to say is, no, of course Michael is not perfect and of course there is a lot we don't know about him. But, I'm not giving much time to someone who is challenging what I, and you all, have come to conclude after years of reading and connecting the dots. Namely, that he did not bleach his skin because of some desire to be white. I mean, come on! I will make a mental note of this, put it at the back of my mind somewhere in case I ever need to reconsider it. But I very much doubt it. It's not just about the vitiligo, not even about the shock at the possibility of it being real -and if it was, I am not him to know the motives behind such actions, because we all have motives and I can accept that, that's why I don't do judging.
But think about this: does this description fit with MJ's message, with the reason for the hoax, with what he has been telling us for years? If this was proven true, I would have to stop believing in the hoax. NOT because I couldn't accept it, but because these two personalities exclude each other.

[youngatheart]

Hmmm...well, let’s just remember that there’s usually three sides to every story and I’m sure one can find some ‘truth’ in all three.  I’m sure some of what this poster says is true...especially the part about some fans putting Mike on a ‘can-do-no-wrong’ pedestal.  I think this, in itself, just added to Mike’s feelings of self-consciousness.  Heck, most of us try to look ‘good’ for those we love and who love us...try to imagine having to look ‘good’ for billions of people.  That would cause anyone to be unsure of themselves.  Mix that in with Mike’s own need for perfection, along with the media whores foaming at the mouth, just waiting for him to f*ck up...and you have an amount of pressure very few people in this world will ever experience.

The whole Quincy thing is getting real old, real fast.  Sure he deserves some credit but who is this poster trying to fool?  Was it Quincy’s voice that billions of people spent money on albums to listen to?  Was it Quincy’s dancing that everyone, of all ages, tried to copy...that artists TODAY try to emulate?  Was it Quincy who went out each night to perform to millions around the globe, needing to practice and rehearse vigorously...needing to damage his body (and health), sometimes for not even a penny?  I could go on and on here...but the bottom line is that, IMO, Mike gave Quincy all the credit and respect he was due...given the fact that had it not been for MJ, Quincy’s lifestyle would be somewhat different today...NOT the other way around.

As for Mike’s legacy...if some bleaching cream is what, in the poster’s mind, is gonna tarnish people’s perception of the genius that MJ is...well, then those are NOT true fans, nor do they have a heart because if he was intentionally changing the color of his skin, it most likely stems from some sort of psychological problem.  And that comes as a shock to people?  Shit, the multi-billion dollar ‘self-help’ industry, along with all the rich psychiatrists running around today...were NOT built for Mike.  Most people have issues, that’s human nature...BUT imagine your own issues, and then add in the need for perfection in all you do and how you look, mix in a bit of being gawked at every single second that you’re in public and then having pics of you scattered everywhere for billions to see and talk about, then you might as well thrown in having media whores write stories about you that aren’t true and that make you look like a ‘freak’...but hell, why stop there.  Finish it all off with having most of the entire world unsure as to whether or not you molested kids!  Once you do all that...then we can talk about having ‘issues’.Even if MJ didn’t want to be black, even if he was bleaching his skin (which I find hard to believe)...but even if...even if he was a complete asshole at times (which I don’t doubt for a second)...how, in God’s green earth, does that change the fact that this MAN has given more to charity than ANY other person in the world (was that just for ‘sport’???)....how does it change the fact that HE has broken more records than ANYONE else (not Quincy)....how does it change the fact that he grew up in the spotlight and lived a life that NO ONE can fully understand....how does it change the fact that he is, and always has been, a HUMAN genius....but, most importantly, how does it change the fact that NONE of this was ever anyone’s ‘business’ but Mike’s?

With L.O.V.E. always.

I agree 100%.  Michael is HUMAN and noone, I don't care who you are, is perfect.  There is no way that Michael could have achieved everthing he has without being an ass at times.  As was said already there were so many people trying to control him (including his own father) and I'm sure there came a time when that realization set in for him and he knew he had to get tough and take control himself.  So yes, I do believe he was very demanding.  He had to be.  In my opinion anyone who thinks he wouldn't be like this  and that he would do no wrong  is worshiping Michael as an idol and not being realistic.

As for his skin color changing I also believe that if he did lighten his skin intentionally because he didn't want to be black than it was due to some deep rooted psychological issues.  Who are we to say what they may be but I'm sure having a father telling you you're ugly all the time probably doesn't help.  I personally think that he did have vitiligo.but that is my opinion.

So as you said, this post DOES NOT CHANGE ANY FACTS.  The number one fact being that Michael is HUMAN

Love and Blessings

[voiceforthesilent]

Believe what you want to believe.  I am just amazed at what people who are "close to the source" will say, after the source is gone.  I wonder what FoQ will be saying when the source returns.   8-)

I go with this opinion myself....

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I am not saying I 100% believe the poster, I am simply saying that there could be more truth in his comment than many fans would like to believe. I don't know what's up between Mike and QJ, I was never there and I can't have an opinion about it. As far as I know Mike always thanked Quincy and gave him credit, but in the end it was him that made the albums big, not Quincy. And probably that's something we'll never know, because it's none of our business. I agree that people should have had the balls to come up with this when Mike was still officially alive, then he could have defended himself. Issues like this should be discussed privately, not in puclic when the person can't defend himself.

Ok - two versions. One from this guy who says Michael is NOT Mr. Nice Guy (above) and another from this 80Zackary from Canada (below). It sounds like they were both witnesses to Michael and Quincy's relationship.

For me, the first version isn't consistent with Michael's character. I know that Michael is human and he probably had some tantrums when things didn't go his way. After all, he grew up in the spotlight and was used to being doted on. However, unless he had a split personality (and I think that after 45 years in the public eye we would have seen it) we haven't really witnessed that type of personality and it's not consistent with many of the other stories we've heard. I believe the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think the person above probably had more favor with Quincy and the person below probably the opposite.

As far as Lupus and Vitiligo - I do believe he had the disease. And I think he did the best he could to hide it with makeup over the years. I also believe he had BDD. But why does he owe anyone an explanation for his personal life and what gives us (or his friends and colleagues) the right to think he should disclose is medical conditions to us? We don't expect the same from other celebrities. Being in the public eye doesn't mean we own him. I think it was Michael's desire to be what everyone thought he should be that set him on this path in addition to the name calling he received from certain family members when he was young. He wasn't given the chance to be himself nor was he accepted flaws and all. And he set just as high of a bar on himself as the world did for him.

I am looking forward to the continuation from 80Zachary. It sounds like he's just getting started. Blessings to all. Michael - we love you more.


Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 20:47
80Zackary:
Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones Did Not Make History Together

Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones did not make history together.
Michael Jackson made history.
For far too long, Quincy Jones has been taking far too much credit for his work on "Off The Wall", "Thriller" and "Bad". It was actually Quincy who approached Michael on the set of "The Wiz" and asked if he could produce MJ's next album. From the start, it was Quincy who sought out Michael, not the other way around....
In an odd way, "Off The Wall" has actually stood the test of time best of all three of their recordings. "Off The Wall" could be released today and it would still be a major hit. Very little remixing or changes would be necessary. Most of "Thriller" has aged very well - funny enough, I think the title track has aged worst of all - it has 1980's written all over it! But, of course, "Billie Jean" is timeless and considered by many to be MJ's finest moment. No wonder, MIchael Jackson began to question Quincy's judgment during the recording of "Thriler". First, Quincy wanted to change the title of "Billie Jean" to "Not My Lover" - Jones was concerned about the possible association between Billie Jean King, but really, Quincy, who cares? "Not My Lover" is a lousy title period.....
Then, MIchael really began to question Quincy's judgment when he thought "Billie Jean" should be left off the "Thriller" album! Apparently, Quincy thought "Billie Jean" was not "up to scratch".....great judgment Quincy - you almost deleted Michael's most classic track!
Then, there was the struggle with the recording of the "Bad" album. Quincy and Michael were always at odds. Quincy was conservative and calculating, Michael was creative and wanted to push the envelope.....So, the two had many disagreements during the recordings of all three of their albums....The recording of "Bad" was not fun. Recording sessions were intense. Michael was obsessed with topping "Thriller" - he wanted the new album to sell 100 million copies....All involved knew that public and fan expectations would be very high. There were many arguments between Quincy and Michael..... Quincy wanted "Another Part Of Me" to appear and the album and MJ wanted the more wild "Streetwalker".....just compare the two tracks....you will see how "Streetwalker" is actually the more daring choice! Then there was the issue with Quincy's approach - he is very calculating - and "Bad" suffers from it because it does sound a little like Thriller, Part 2.....Don't get me wrong, I love the "Bad" album, but I would have loved to have heard more of Michael and less of Quincy on that CD.....In interviews, Quincy would argue with Michael stating "an album is made up of 10 tracks" when Michael wanted to include more! Mr. Jones, please let us know where it says an album is made up of 10 songs? Also, Michael was seriously pissed off that Quincy Jones strongly argued that "Smooth Criminal" should not appear on the "Bad" album. As with "Billie Jean", MJ knew Quincy was dead wrong.....and history has proven MIchael right.... "Smooth Criminal" would probably be listed in the top 5 MJ singles of all time. "Smooth Criminal" confirmed that MIchael's musical instincts were superior to Jones and it was time to break free on the next album....And just listen to "Dangerous" - leaving Quincy Jones was one one of the best decisions MJ ever made. The first half of "Dangerous" is the funkiest music MJ has ever recorded (Prince move over, MJ proves here that when it comes to getting funky, he will outdo you!!!) Plus, the range on "Dangerous" was incredible - Quincy Jones would never have produced an album that wildly creative! From gospel "Will You Be There", to humanitarian "Heal The World" to haunting and melancholy "Gone Too Soon"..... "Dangerous" had every kind of musical style you could imagine and at 77 minutes it really counted as two albums in one....plus, Black or White - what a great interracial pop song with a video that is still mind blowing in 2010.....I think "Dangerous" was actually Michael's finest creative artist - and guess what Quincy Jones (you egomaniac) - HE DID IT ALL WITHOUT YOU..... Michael felt Jones was grabbing too much credit and in "Dangerous" MJ knocked that point right out of the ball park.....
Now, for some of the backstabbing comments Quincy Jones has made about Michael Jackson. In particular, Jones has stated that he never believed MJ's claims that he had the skin disorder Vitilgo,, in fact, Jones said Michael's claims to have the disease were "B.S" What kind of ego do you have Mr. Jones? Who do you think you are? You worked with this man and three albums and you basically state he is a liar.... Wow, no wonder MJ left you with the loyalty you display.....The fact is - does it really matter? Is it anyones business? It is medically possible to develop Vitilgo after having chemical peels and maybe MJ was embarrassed that he brought the disorder upon himself? It is it the business of Mr. Jones? Does Jones not understand that MIchael suffered his whole life from BODY DYSMORPHIC DISORDER? Unfortunately, there is so much misunderstanding regarding this disorder. First, it is not vanity driven. Just the opposite - Michael probably thought of himself has physically ugly most of his life and was desperately trying to change each unattractive feature... Unfortunately, MJ suffered from a severe form of this disorder and he relentlessly pursued any change that he found unattractive....and who cares if he wanted his skin to be lighter? Maybe he just found that more attractive...that is Michael's personal choice and Quincy Jones has no bloody business commenting on the matter. You can see that Jones has NO UNDERSTANDING of MIchael when he said MJ's obsession with his appearance was "ridiculous". HELLLO, Mr. Jones - in your complete ignorance you display no understanding of Body Dysmorphic Disorder and the HELL that people with this disorder go through....for example, the suicide rate for people with this disorder is twice that of people who suffer for major depression..... I don't think Quincy Jones understood MIchael Jackson at all........and I think, in the end, that MJ saw this was true - Michael was just too creative for Jones calculating and "connect the dots' production approach.... And frankly, all this "I lost my little brother" kind of talk by Jones of MJ is pure BS.....You know what Quincy Jones"......Michael Jackson was musically far smarter than you....anyone who thinks "Billie Jean" and "Smooth Criminal" should not have been released needs their head examined..... Michael proved on "Dangerous" that he never needed you, and, in fact, was better off without you....
Always keep in mind Quincy, you never made history with Michael Jackon....
Michael Jackson made history all on his own!
Peace....
Next, I'm going to deal with the false accusations of 1993 and 2003 and the losers behind those accusations.....Michael's name must be cleared once and for all....I don't believe for a second that he ever touched those money hungry little backstabbers...
TO BE CONTINUED....

[Glinda]

Interesting comment.

I think there is a big chance the poster is right about some stuff, although I am sure that even the people that worked with him, didn't really know him. But I do think he was a pain in the ass sometimes and I have said that many times. We can't all be nice 24/7, ALL of us have a 'dark' side, so does Mike. I think that if he wanted something, he got it, however and whenever. Add to that that he was fucked many times by a lot of snakes, that really changes your attitude as well. I can't blame him, it's human nature. If I would always say what I really thought... Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances and I think he was good at that.

The vitiligo is also something that's bugging me. I am not so sure that it is because he didn't want to be black. Maybe they did something in his make-up. I have discussed this with Mo a few times and although I know vitiligo can spread fast as hell, there is one thing bugging me. He had a spot on his hand (make-up on the hand for mixing and comparing to the color of your skin) and face and neck. Places where the make-up was applied. There are a few possibilities:

1. They put poison in his foundation that distroyed his pigment.
2. He really has vitiligo and for some reason he never had the brown parts around the eyes that other vitiligo patients have or he used theatrical make-up to cover it up (this we should see on pictures, because that make-up is really thick).
3. This poster is right and he did have an illness that made him think being black made him ugly.

To me there is no option where he just didn't want to be black, I don't believe that becoming white was his own fault. I also don't believe he didn't want his children to be black. But the continuing smooth skin color of his face through the years bugs me. I think option 2 isn't even a far fetched thought ...

Anyway, I think there is a lot we don't know about the man.

Dont forget the allergy to thorazine.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Thanks for the reminder!

Dermatological reactions are frequently observed. In fact three types of skin disorders are observed: hypersensitivity reaction, contact dermatitis, and photosensitivity. During long-term therapy in schizophrenic patients chlorpromazine can induce abnormal pigmentation of the skin. This can be manifested as gray-blue pigmentation in regions exposed to sunlight.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

An that's just a side-effect. Imagine what it can do to your skin when you're allergic.

Yes and just ONE of the side-effects. (holy crap)

[~Souza~]

Vitiligo or not, I truly believe someone other than himself wanted him to become white. Maybe it's a combination of stuff they did in his food for instance that destroyed his pigment, and the make-up so his face would stay smooth. Maybe he came up with the vitiligo and one of his family members having it because he simply couldn't tell the real story out of fear for his own life.

[Glinda]

Oh and about Quincy.
Did Michael said something bad about Quincy? ( not that i can recall)
True he stopped working with Quincy ( reason?? ..whatever) but when he got a award he always mentioned Quincy.

[SEHF]

His own son has it.. can see it in many pictures already showing up on his skin.

[~Souza~]

However, unless he had a split personality (and I think that after 45 years in the public eye we would have seen it) we haven't really witnessed that type of personality and it's not consistent with many of the other stories we've heard.

Two things.

1: We only saw Mike in public. We have seen his public image and not his true self. I am not saying everything is different in real life, I am saying he will most definitely act different than he will at home with cameras pointed at him, wouldn't we all?

2: As for the multiple personalities, please watch the Bashit interview again, there they are. Little Michael, Feminine Michael, King of Pop Michael. One moment he's blaming Bashit for cheating and wanting to have his icecream before that kid (me, me, me!), than he is hitting on some Spanish fans, then we see him feeding Blanket like a real mommie and in the end we see a manly Michael that is pretty annoyed with his interviewer. You can interview me over 8 months, but you will still see me in every shot. Here we see many Mikes.

His own son has it.. can see it in many pictures already showing up on his skin.

Okay... but I don't believe he is Prince's biological dad, and it's not contagious, so how did Prince get it?

[MissG]

However, unless he had a split personality (and I think that after 45 years in the public eye we would have seen it) we haven't really witnessed that type of personality and it's not consistent with many of the other stories we've heard.

Two things.

1: We only saw Mike in public. We have seen his public image and not his true self. I am not saying everything is different in real life, I am saying he will most definitely act different than he will at home with cameras pointed at him, wouldn't we all?

2: As for the multiple personalities, please watch the Bashit interview again, there they are. Little Michael, Feminine Michael, King of Pop Michael. One moment he's blaming Bashit for cheating and wanting to have his icecream before that kid (me, me, me!), than he is hitting on some Spanish fans, then we see him feeding Blanket like a real mommie and in the end we see a manly Michael that is pretty annoyed with his interviewer. You can interview me over 8 months, but you will still see me in every shot. Here we see many Mikes.

When MJ was in the train with the kids i started wondering "who he was". I was not awared of that femenine side of him and took me by surprise.

[trublu]

I am now thinking about La toya. Did she also have vitiligo?