'I believe what people failed to realise...'

[mumof3]

I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem

[nick_93]

I myself suffer from Asperger's Syndrome and I think it's a very great possibility that Michael has this disorder. I find as he shares traits of it that it is one of the reasons why I find so MJ so appealing as I see him as being a similar person to me. It's heartening to see you guys talk about Asperger's in such a positive manner, it's so great to see you all share your stories as I can relate. If MJ does in fact have it then it's just another reason why he's so awesome!

[Scream]

The thing's that Michael has said about himself openly like "I don't like to talk" and the apparent extreme shyness that he suffers around people upon first meeting them is a trait of Aspies but his creativity and vivid imagination contradict this theory, even high-functioning Aspies like my myself struggle highly when trying to explore and express the creative and imaginary aspects of the human mind, the same goes for love and relationships in the fact that we find it hard to express our feeling's verbally and it lead's to a lot of frustration on both sides of the divide, especially if they don't understand Apergers or are unwilling to accept you for the person you really are, when I told my last girlfriend that I had it she didn't want to know, it hurt a lot that she couldn't accept me for me and that's the issue here.. accepting MJ for the person he really is and not for the person you want him to be, though I personally don't believe that he has Aspergers, I do believe that he could suffer from other thing's that limit his social skills for one reason or another that can cause a lot of emotional pain and suffering because people that have these kind of disorders are often pushed to the fringes of social groups and made to feel like and be outsiders, freaks and prime targerts for both emotional and physical bullying, especially in the teen years.

Campassion, sensivity, kindness and having an open mind isn't too much to ask but if you find that it is, I suggest an investigative forum that is inevitably going to research and put the spotlight on his most personal issues and put your media fed image of him under uncomfortable scrutiny isn't the best place for you to be, sign up to fan-based forum.

Thanks for bringing this up, Souza, it's about time that his issue was put in the spotlight.

[~Souza~]

I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem

Now doesn't that sound familiar?

[mumof3]

Spot on I would say
The person I know is well loved but he loves everybody which is dangerous he can not read people
It does remind me of somebody

[GirlSaturday]

Amen sister...

You are not alone (cheesy MJ reference :lol: ). Many of us have also laughed and cried during this journey. Sometimes it has happened at the same time.  If you need to, take a break and step back from it all.

The rollercoaster may need to be traded in for a much calmer ride such as the ferris wheel or merry go round.  

[center:3fepk0j4]

I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.

[/center:3fepk0j4]
[hr:3fepk0j4]hr[/hr:3fepk0j4]
I still think many fail to realise that, even his fans. I am posting this because there is a lot I need to get off my chest.

This hoax has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I have laughed, I have been confused (and still are most of the time), I have had dozens of brain reboots, I have cried my eyes out, I have finally met the true me, I have learned what I expect from myself and this short visit on earth and I believe I am a close witness to "What Will Go Down In History As The Greatest Demonstration For Freedom...". That is why this is important to me, because if I would have thought that he only hoaxed his death because he wanted to outdo Thriller, I would have walked away months ago, although I do like this aspect of the story as well. But lately what I feel most is sadness and even disgust.

This hoax is turning into something that is the opposite of its original purpose. The hoax community is full of hate, back stabbing, (death)threats and blogs and forums are lately platforms to share personal information of other members, just because they think it's 'important' for the hoax. Why would that be important and don't they see the danger in that? The very person who HATED all these things is actually the one who attracted it and I am sure that hurts him more than some people can imagine.

Besides that I see too many threads about him that have subjects like:

"Oh my God, he's so hot"
"MJ sexy with glasses"
"MJ sexy with tongue"

And other titles like that. Please let me remind you that the "Videos of Michael" subforum is for videos unrelated to the hoax. Videos of tours or performances or things like that, but absolutely not to dissect the man or to share your fantasies. Same goes for the "Pictures of Michael" subforum. There is no subforum "Fanfiction" so please refrain from posting it in the future. This is an investigation site and not a fan forum. Do you think he would enjoy reading that? Is that all he is about? The outside?

One of the This Is It posters said: "Discover the man you never knew". By reading fanfiction and threads like mentioned above, you won't discover that man. You will stick with your fantasies and will keep seeing everything through your pink glasses. If that's your cup of tea then that is fine, but not on this forum.

So here I return to the quote at the beginning of this post: 'I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.'

People did and still are. He's made of flesh and blood, like all of us. Besides all the angelic features, I am certain he has his other side too. We are all not our best 24/7. I am sure he can be cranky, angry, unreasonable and a pain in the butt as well.  If he needs to go, he needs to go and will have to wipe his own ass. I know most of you don't like that thought, but that is one thing I can certainly say is the truth.
 But most of all, he can hurt. Physically as in fans tearing him apart just to get a piece of him and mentally by all the shit that has been reported and all the false accusations against him.

Then the ridicule of some theories and thoughts. Please refrain from commenting that something is ridiculous before you have actually read up on it. I remember some of us discussed that Michael could have Asperger's Syndrome. Some reactions and I paraphrase: "Ridiculous, Michael is not an autist".  That can hurt! First of all, I am certain that there might be people on here that have some sort of autism or Asperger's, who can confirm that. Read up on autism and Asperger's and then comment. If you still don't agree that is fine, but at least you can post your arguments and keep up a healthy discussion. I am familiar with Asperger's and I really think it's a possibilty he has AS. He is human, he can have disorders (although I don't really think the word disorder really fits AS) because he is human. It's not something he has control over. And I can imagine that IF he has AS, comments like the above are not really nice to read.

On a sidenote: Here is a video about Carly Fleischmann, who has severe autism (NOT Asperger's). Just this video alone will let you take a peek behind the screen about autism. It's inspirational and shows how people can be misjudged because of their outside:

[youtube:3fepk0j4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7U1UjZzJLE[/youtube:3fepk0j4]

Take off your pink glasses and try to think outside the box sometimes. Don't try to think or answer for him, because none of us can. Instead, try to imagine what you would do, or think. Mostly that is closer to the truth than when you try to form an opinion based on a person you have never met and idolize that much. He is a son, a brother, a father and a friend. At the end of the day, he needs to change his underwear. His dirty laundry is as dirty as ours and when he bumps his little toe I am sure he won't say "Hee Hee". He bruises when you pinch him hard enough and when you cut him he bleeds...

I am not at all being disrespectful and I am not judging anyone in particular. I know you all love him and I know you all want the best for him. That would be leaving him in one piece, instead of aspire to get a piece. I am only trying to make you see that he might be Michael Jackson, he might be tough, but in the end we're all the same and this hoax should be about L.O.V.E. and not H.A.T.E. I hope we can turn that tide before it's too late. The world is fucked up enough already and we have more important things to be passionate about. Save your energy for later.

Here is something to think about:

'The prince asks the narrator to draw a sheep. Not knowing how to draw a sheep, the narrator shows the prince a picture that he had previously drawn: a boa with an elephant in its stomach (a drawing which previous viewers mistook for a hat). "No! No!" exclaims the prince. "I don't want a boa constrictor from the inside or outside. I want a sheep!" He tries a few sheep drawings, which the prince rejects. Finally he draws a box, which he explains has the sheep inside. The prince, who can see the sheep inside the box just as well as he can see the elephant in the boa, says "That's perfect.".'

[hesouttamylife]

It is so enlightening to see this topic in discussion.  I thought it would be the opening of a Pandora's box.  I've often thought that Michael exhibited the symptoms of autistic savant which is not a bad thing.  It is highly misunderstood.  But this also sounds very plausible. and I totally agree.  One of the first real clues for me was when he was married to Lisa and she refused to have children.  His admission that he walked around with a baby doll in his arms and cried from wanting a child so badly with her kind of brought it home.  Also because he was so emotionally abused as a child that he was content at sharing his home with the life sized figurines and openly admitted he had them there because he was lonely and because he genuinely loved such simple things. He even took some to his hotel to keep him company.   Only a person who was genuinely child like in a very real way, could attach so emotionally to inanimate things. When he was doing the Virgin Store cd signing you could see that he had to be moving and thumping, never still, and his eyes would light up at anything sparkly like a little boy.  The water guns.  Neverland, a child's paradise filled with things to do and see 24-7.  He was a big kid at heart.  Literally.  BUT BOY WHEN HE WAS ON STAGE. :shock: Night and day.  Quincey Jones even talked about how he couldn't stand still, had to be moving all the time.  God how could anyone not just love him?  That is the main reason that my love for Michael was not in a sexual way.  I wanted to soothe the beast in him, that energy that wouldn't let him rest, that mind that was constantly churning out thoughts, ideas, through simply massaging the soles of his feet and his hands and just watching him relax enough to finally, naturally fall asleep.  That was my dream.  Still is to be honest.  A lot of things points to one or both of these diagnoses.  Thanks for having the courage to bring it up and for all the mature conversations surrounding it.  This is great.

[~Souza~]

Amen sister...

You are not alone (cheesy MJ reference :lol: ). Many of us have also laughed and cried during this journey. Sometimes it has happened at the same time.  If you need to, take a break and step back from it all.

The rollercoaster may need to be traded in for a much calmer ride such as the ferris wheel or merry go round.  

Oh no, I'm 'All Good'! :lol:

[ABeautifulMind]

The thing's that Michael has said about himself openly like "I don't like to talk" and the apparent extreme shyness that he suffers around people upon first meeting them is a trait of Aspies but his creativity and vivid imagination contradict this theory, even high-functioning Aspies like my myself struggle highly when trying to explore and express the creative and imaginary aspects of the human mind, the same goes for love and relationships in the fact that we find it hard to express our feeling's verbally and it lead's to a lot of frustration on both sides of the divide, especially if they don't understand Apergers or are unwilling to accept you for the person you really are, when I told my last girlfriend that I had it she didn't want to know, it hurt a lot that she couldn't accept me for me and that's the issue here.. accepting MJ for the person he really is and not for the person you want him to be, though I personally don't believe that he has Aspergers, I do believe that he could suffer from other thing's that limit his social skills for one reason or another that can cause a lot of emotional pain and suffering because people that have these kind of disorders are often pushed to the fringes of social groups and made to feel like and be outsiders, freaks and prime targerts for both emotional and physical bullying, especially in the teen years.

Campassion, sensivity, kindness and having an open mind isn't too much to ask but if you find that it is, I suggest an investigative forum that is inevitably going to research and put the spotlight on his most personal issues and put your media fed image of him under uncomfortable scrutiny isn't the best place for you to be, sign up to fan-based forum.

Thanks for bringing this up, Souza, it's about time that his issue was put in the spotlight.

I don't know if I agree with your statement, I'm very creative and so is my cousin. I've seen others with autism and aspergers that are creative at well. No matter what, some of our symptoms differ on the whole spectrum there. In fact alot of people with this have high IQ's.

From WebMD - "Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson."

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[PinkTopaz]

[center:658dyiq1]

I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.

[/center:658dyiq1]
[hr:658dyiq1]hr[/hr:658dyiq1]
I still think many fail to realise that, even his fans. I am posting this because there is a lot I need to get off my chest.

This hoax has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I have laughed, I have been confused (and still are most of the time), I have had dozens of brain reboots, I have cried my eyes out, I have finally met the true me, I have learned what I expect from myself and this short visit on earth and I believe I am a close witness to "What Will Go Down In History As The Greatest Demonstration For Freedom...". That is why this is important to me, because if I would have thought that he only hoaxed his death because he wanted to outdo Thriller, I would have walked away months ago, although I do like this aspect of the story as well. But lately what I feel most is sadness and even disgust.

This hoax is turning into something that is the opposite of its original purpose. The hoax community is full of hate, back stabbing, (death)threats and blogs and forums are lately platforms to share personal information of other members, just because they think it's 'important' for the hoax. Why would that be important and don't they see the danger in that? The very person who HATED all these things is actually the one who attracted it and I am sure that hurts him more than some people can imagine.

Besides that I see too many threads about him that have subjects like:

"Oh my God, he's so hot"
"MJ sexy with glasses"
"MJ sexy with tongue"

And other titles like that. Please let me remind you that the "Videos of Michael" subforum is for videos unrelated to the hoax. Videos of tours or performances or things like that, but absolutely not to dissect the man or to share your fantasies. Same goes for the "Pictures of Michael" subforum. There is no subforum "Fanfiction" so please refrain from posting it in the future. This is an investigation site and not a fan forum. Do you think he would enjoy reading that? Is that all he is about? The outside?

One of the This Is It posters said: "Discover the man you never knew". By reading fanfiction and threads like mentioned above, you won't discover that man. You will stick with your fantasies and will keep seeing everything through your pink glasses. If that's your cup of tea then that is fine, but not on this forum.

So here I return to the quote at the beginning of this post: 'I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.'

People did and still are. He's made of flesh and blood, like all of us. Besides all the angelic features, I am certain he has his other side too. We are all not our best 24/7. I am sure he can be cranky, angry, unreasonable and a pain in the butt as well.  If he needs to go, he needs to go and will have to wipe his own ass. I know most of you don't like that thought, but that is one thing I can certainly say is the truth.
 But most of all, he can hurt. Physically as in fans tearing him apart just to get a piece of him and mentally by all the shit that has been reported and all the false accusations against him.

Then the ridicule of some theories and thoughts. Please refrain from commenting that something is ridiculous before you have actually read up on it. I remember some of us discussed that Michael could have Asperger's Syndrome. Some reactions and I paraphrase: "Ridiculous, Michael is not an autist".  That can hurt! First of all, I am certain that there might be people on here that have some sort of autism or Asperger's, who can confirm that. Read up on autism and Asperger's and then comment. If you still don't agree that is fine, but at least you can post your arguments and keep up a healthy discussion. I am familiar with Asperger's and I really think it's a possibilty he has AS. He is human, he can have disorders (although I don't really think the word disorder really fits AS) because he is human. It's not something he has control over. And I can imagine that IF he has AS, comments like the above are not really nice to read.

On a sidenote: Here is a video about Carly Fleischmann, who has severe autism (NOT Asperger's). Just this video alone will let you take a peek behind the screen about autism. It's inspirational and shows how people can be misjudged because of their outside:

[youtube:658dyiq1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7U1UjZzJLE[/youtube:658dyiq1]

Take off your pink glasses and try to think outside the box sometimes. Don't try to think or answer for him, because none of us can. Instead, try to imagine what you would do, or think. Mostly that is closer to the truth than when you try to form an opinion based on a person you have never met and idolize that much. He is a son, a brother, a father and a friend. At the end of the day, he needs to change his underwear. His dirty laundry is as dirty as ours and when he bumps his little toe I am sure he won't say "Hee Hee". He bruises when you pinch him hard enough and when you cut him he bleeds...

I am not at all being disrespectful and I am not judging anyone in particular. I know you all love him and I know you all want the best for him. That would be leaving him in one piece, instead of aspire to get a piece. I am only trying to make you see that he might be Michael Jackson, he might be tough, but in the end we're all the same and this hoax should be about L.O.V.E. and not H.A.T.E. I hope we can turn that tide before it's too late. The world is fucked up enough already and we have more important things to be passionate about. Save your energy for later.

Here is something to think about:

'The prince asks the narrator to draw a sheep. Not knowing how to draw a sheep, the narrator shows the prince a picture that he had previously drawn: a boa with an elephant in its stomach (a drawing which previous viewers mistook for a hat). "No! No!" exclaims the prince. "I don't want a boa constrictor from the inside or outside. I want a sheep!" He tries a few sheep drawings, which the prince rejects. Finally he draws a box, which he explains has the sheep inside. The prince, who can see the sheep inside the box just as well as he can see the elephant in the boa, says "That's perfect.".'

Souza, great, well-written post. Maybe it's because I haven't been on much lately, but I think H.A.T.E is a strong word for the members on this particular board- I at least never see much of anything in the way of hatefulness.. Yeah, a lot of arguments like you said, though.

I think you also have to consider what someone else here said, about all of the picture-and-video-ogling threads, we have a lot of new people here that come from fan forums, and aren't really used to it here yet. I would hate to assume- just because they look at these and write some comments doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't researching or can't see "the man they never knew"..though they should consider that he does read the board. We all know he is not just about his looks, of course, it would be a great insult to say that about him, BUT-  I remember from when I first joined that after extensive reading of more intense topics for the hoax, I was really just looking for something positive to look at or remember to keep me from sinking into the bogs- everyone knows that he isn't perfect, Souza, of course, but you don't really want the boards to have been clogged up with threads like "How much of an annoyance do you think MJ is?" or "What if MJ bugged you by blank blank?" these months, do you? Haha..!  Speaking of fans, I can feel where you're coming from about the fact that they did in some ways make his life harder- a lot of times I wonder how his life would have been if those certain, I suppose obsessed ones had never chased him in giant packs and yanked at him those times.. But at least their existence means that he always has a giant support system, no matter how many people go up against him, for whatever reason.

My computer can only load one thing at once, and as someone else needs to use YouTube right now, I can't see the video of Carly, so could someone please just give me an idea of what it's about? Now, here's where I'm getting emotional.. the idea of MJ having Asperger's isn't very horrible at all, but there are always some who will feel differently. I know that for me, I have learned so much more about myself and the world, but before I came here I've always known that MJ's genius is deeper than a lot realize, that he's capable of pulling off some wild things that yeah, a few peeps might say "he would never do". (though I honestly don't see that statement here very much at all) But.. it's hard to read about him suffering from anything else than what everyone already knows he has, it's like a "What now?!" feeling.. and I think that's why so many post in the way that they do- instant rejection posts that can come off as harsh or insulting. I'm not saying he has anything other than possibly Asperger's, but it's depressing, and potentially hurtful to us, to our hearts, to think that he's possibly suffered anything more, anything new (to us), besides what we all know he already has.. or maybe I'm just too much mushy-gushy..

[Debbie]

Thank you for this post Souza.......Finally someone has said it.  Lets get on with the show.....investigating a hoaxed death.  xoxo

I agree as well....wonderful post!  Love & Hugs    

[katy (MJFAN7)]

I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem

This does sound like MJ. Especially walking into dangerous situations without seeing the problem, like with the children sleeping over, he knew he wasn't doing anything sexual, so he didn't see the problem. But the world didn't think the same, of course.  :roll:

[Sangre]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

[ABeautifulMind]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

We're not saying we know for sure he does. but saying it's a possibility for why people might not understand him and he exibits some symptoms. I think Souza also trying to say that we should be able to discuss things like this without being looked down on or argued with. And I'm posting infor on AS because some people think people with AS can't function or are not smart and creative and that actually saddens me, Because I am extremely Intelligent.

[curls]

I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.

Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with.  If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.