Let's start back at the beginning with the FACTS

[MJmakesmespeechless]

Okay so ALOT of things are coincidence right? We have very strong assumptions about the ambulance and the memorials and dave dave and all that. We truly are GUESSING here when maybe we are being totally wrong.

Iam a strong believer of the hoax and that Michael is coming back...one day

But why dont we put together the FACTS. What do we know for SURE and not just guessing about???

Let's start right back at the beginning...

[DREAMSandTRUTH]

Okay so ALOT of things are coincidence right? We have very strong assumptions about the ambulance and the memorials and dave dave and all that. We truly are GUESSING here when maybe we are being totally wrong.

Iam a strong believer of the hoax and that Michael is coming back...one day

But why dont we put together the FACTS. What do we know for SURE and not just guessing about???

Let's start right back at the beginning...

I absolutely agree. Only facts can lead us to the truth.
Of course, it's hard for us to really KNOW what is a fact and what is not. But we have to try our best if we want to know the truth.
I was thinking of starting a thread where we could disuss which theories are the most likely. After we gather all the facts we know, we can more easily disuss that.

[Jude]

I agree, there are too many "Off the Wall" theories out there and everything is a mess, it's time to do some housecleaning.

[MJmakesmespeechless]

Okay so ALOT of things are coincidence right? We have very strong assumptions about the ambulance and the memorials and dave dave and all that. We truly are GUESSING here when maybe we are being totally wrong.

Iam a strong believer of the hoax and that Michael is coming back...one day

But why dont we put together the FACTS. What do we know for SURE and not just guessing about???

Let's start right back at the beginning...

I absolutely agree. Only facts can lead us to the truth.
Of course, it's hard for us to really KNOW what is a fact and what is not. But we have to try our best if we want to know the truth.
I was thinking of starting a thread where we could disuss which theories are the most likely. After we gather all the facts we know, we can more easily disuss that.

I think we should gather the facts...I for one have a fact...Michael didnt like or want to tour
He didnt want to be doing that anymore in his life.
These are quotes from the Michael Jackson Making History Book back in 1998:
"I love movies, and that is why my next mission is to make films. That is what I want the next chapter in my life to be - movies and records. There's no other place to go. I'll do film, do records and direct. I'll also do complete directing myself, cause I love it very much"

Also: "I dont wanna do anymore live shows (world tours). I don't think I will! I wanna spend the rest of my life doing records and fils, I'll do some special shows here and there. You know I've been doing it since i was five, I dont know if i wanna do it anymore but i do love it very much. I wanna create for the next 100 years, and that's film work''.

[all4loveandbelieve]

We also have to be careful, that what we may think is a fact, it may be a lie. Meaning, the family, media, may lie, but we may think it is the truth, and we reached a dead end. We shouldn't believe everything we read or hear.

[Jude]

So lets start from Michael's own words.

[DREAMSandTRUTH]

We also have to be careful, that what we may think is a fact, it may be a lie. Meaning, the family, media, may lie, but we may think it is the truth, and we reached a dead end. We shouldn't believe everything we read or hear.

This is what I meant too - so this work won't be easy... But the only way to go to the right direction.

[DREAMSandTRUTH]

So lets start from Michael's own words.

This will be the best. But start with videos (be careful with those which are cut - like what Bashir did), those are more reliable than articles.

[DREAMSandTRUTH]

I think we should gather the facts...I for one have a fact...Michael didnt like or want to tour
He didnt want to be doing that anymore in his life.
These are quotes from the Michael Jackson Making History Book back in 1998:
"I love movies, and that is why my next mission is to make films. That is what I want the next chapter in my life to be - movies and records. There's no other place to go. I'll do film, do records and direct. I'll also do complete directing myself, cause I love it very much"

Also: "I dont wanna do anymore live shows (world tours). I don't think I will! I wanna spend the rest of my life doing records and fils, I'll do some special shows here and there. You know I've been doing it since i was five, I dont know if i wanna do it anymore but i do love it very much. I wanna create for the next 100 years, and that's film work''.

Michael talked about making movies in the interview with Geraldo too. So it can be called a fact, yes.

About tours/live shows he could have changed his mind though. As Jennifer Batten said in the inteview with Souza and Mo: entertainers many times say that this will be their last tour, because it's a good business trick to encourage people to buy tickets. I guess saying they don't want to do more live show/tour can make people buy more "greatest hits" album and DVDs about old tours.

[truthprevails]

@ MJmakesmespeechless:
People change their mind in time; sometimes they even change as people.  We can't rely on something Michael said in 1998 to support the idea that he didn't want to tour in 2009.  And the O2 gig wasn't a "tour" per se, as MJ was going to be stationed in one country.  But if you want to use Mike's general dislike of touring, that's fine...

I'll try to offer some facts:
1. "painS" in MJ's WYBT song at the July 7 memorial.
2. Inconsistencies/mistakes in footage from the Sept. 3 funeral (e.g. missing tree).
3. Inconsistencies in footage taken by various people at 100 Carolwood Drive (supposedly on 25 June 2009), around the time that the ambulance arrived.
3. Differing accounts by family members as to where they were when they got the news - esp. Janet.
4. Ben (paparazzo - I forgot his last name) saying "the other D-day..."
5. Photos, flowers and themes used at memorial and burial are from "Liberian Girl" video.
6. Various people (family members, chef Kai Chase, Kenny Ortega) were quite smiley in the wake of MJ's death/disappearance.  Not many signs of grief.
7. TII dancers were used at the funeral.
8. Many people present at the funeral looked quite happy/content, including Macaulay Culkin, Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, dancers.
9. MJ's family arrived late for the funeral.
10. Some significant MJ friends did not attend the memorial and/or the funeral.

There are a LOT more to be added, and I don't know if it's feasible to compile a comprehensive list.  Maybe if we all do 5-10 facts we'll manage?   :P   In the meantime, we should just try to be aware of what's fact and what's hypothesis/theory or opinion or "something from a book" or "something from the media".  We have to compartmentalize things.  :)

[mjboogie]

How about this one? The FACT that when questioned by Larry King about MJ's body and its whereabouts JOE stated
"Well, I dont'' know Larry, you have to ask whoever has it" WTF? :shock:

And i wishi I could upload the videos of Jane'ts two differing stories seriously? As far as her explaining her whereabouts on the day MJ died.

ALSO.........it is a fact that Katherine Jackson was seen in Target a few days after MJ's "death"

How am I doing so far???? :)

[voiceforthesilent]

@ MJmakesmespeechless:
People change their mind in time; sometimes they even change as people.  We can't rely on something Michael said in 1998 to support the idea that he didn't want to tour in 2009.  And the O2 gig wasn't a "tour" per se, as MJ was going to be stationed in one country.  But if you want to use Mike's general dislike of touring, that's fine...

I'll try to offer some facts:
1. "painS" in MJ's WYBT song at the July 7 memorial.
2. Inconsistencies/mistakes in footage from the Sept. 3 funeral (e.g. missing tree).
3. Inconsistencies in footage taken by various people at 100 Carolwood Drive (supposedly on 25 June 2009), around the time that the ambulance arrived.
3. Differing accounts by family members as to where they were when they got the news - esp. Janet.
4. Ben (paparazzo - I forgot his last name) saying "the other D-day..."
5. Photos, flowers and themes used at memorial and burial are from "Liberian Girl" video.
6. Various people (family members, chef Kai Chase, Kenny Ortega) were quite smiley in the wake of MJ's death/disappearance.  Not many signs of grief.
7. TII dancers were used at the funeral.
8. Many people present at the funeral looked quite happy/content, including Macaulay Culkin, Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, dancers.
9. MJ's family arrived late for the funeral.
10. Some significant MJ friends did not attend the memorial and/or the funeral.

There are a LOT more to be added, and I don't know if it's feasible to compile a comprehensive list.  Maybe if we all do 5-10 facts we'll manage?   :P   In the meantime, we should just try to be aware of what's fact and what's hypothesis/theory or opinion or "something from a book" or "something from the media".  We have to compartmentalize things.  :)

How about this one? The FACT that when questioned by Larry King about MJ's body and its whereabouts JOE stated
"Well, I dont'' know Larry, you have to ask whoever has it" WTF? :shock:

And i wishi I could upload the videos of Jane'ts two differing stories seriously? As far as her explaining her whereabouts on the day MJ died.

ALSO.........it is a fact that Katherine Jackson was seen in Target a few days after MJ's "death"

How am I doing so far???? :)

1) Ben Evenstad and his group was the "official" reporter outside of Michael's home.
2) TMZ was the first one to post the story - before Michael was even officially declared "dead".
3) UCLA Medical Center did not take authority for claiming the death.
From the UCLA Newsroom site. Notice it is titled "A Statement on the Death of Michael Jackson at UCLA Medical Center." It does not say it is a statement from UCLA. Then notice it says "The family of Michael Jackson made this brief statement available on June 25 at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.
4) Jermaine gave the official statement at the hospital declaring "The King of Pop died at 2:26 pm". How convenient that he just happened to have a change of clothes in the car.
5) The manager, Frank Dileo, has said he was the first one to see Michael's body. He also said he was the one that broke the news to the children.
6) Frank Dileo says he was called by a fan. Joe says he was called by a fan.
7) Joe was at an awards show a couple of days after Michael's death; peddling his new business to the world instead of mourning his son.
8) Dr Murray posted the video that was eerily similar to Michael's video claiming his innocence and thanking fans for their support.
9) Dr Murray has been able to walk around (and fly around) a free man.
10) Coke a Cola seems to show up in pictures far too often as does the number 3 and the sunflower.
11) LMP asking for fake sunflowers to be sent to Michael at FL.
12) The windows at FL and the tomb don't always match what TMZ puts in their articles.
13) AEG made a "decision" to make a movie of the rehearsal footage - and the decision was made within a few days. Sony won the bid even though they weren't the highest bidder.
14) Kenny Ortega's comment at the Memorial "we were here a little less than a week ago"...
15) Several of the tributes being canceled for lack of participation or support.
16) The Comic Book "Fated" - everything surrounding the plot and the timing of the book being finished...

[backstager]

-The several security cameras at the mansion went missing, and are yet to be found. Can't help but wonder where it went, and who has it.

-Murray (the CARDIOLOGIST) did not have a defibrillator, and wasn't familiar with CPR.

-Murray isn't licensed to practice in London.

-LAPD didn't mark the house as a crime scene until FOUR DAYS after the incident. After the family had already been in and out, taking things away.

-TMZ was the first to pronounce him dead, the first to release the 911 call, and the first to release "A Place With No Name". They're always the first on every story. Always.

-Apparently Prince Michael saw what happened and was called up to the room. You would think that would be traumatizing for a 12 year old, right?

-Took quite a while to bury him.

-Happy funeral, completed with people waving at cameras as they passed.

-Parts of TII weren't done yet. Costuming, props, etc. And all of this a few days before opening night. I can't see Mr. Jackson the perfectionist ever being okay with this.

-This Is It dancers were funeral ushers. Uhhh...?? :?

-If I understand correcty Mark Torbiner was listed as one of Michael's enabling doctors. This is the same guy who worked against Michael in the 1993 trials. Why would he go to him?! Of all people!

[scorpionchik]

I LOVE FACTS. HERE YOU GO:
HOAX FACTS:

1. BAM scene, inappropriate for rehearsal, from Michael's own words: "Let me breath  my own time. I will come back here........etc."
2. Missing tapes from the house with recording the June 25th,2009.
3. Late call to 911. In fact, even if Murrey wanted to kill Michael, MJ and Murrey were not alone at home. What about children, security, bodyquards, nanny, chef. They could call alert.
4. Mother Katherin in fact was shopping at Target on the 3rd day of her son's sudden death.
5. fact that Jermain confused Michael's  whereabouts;  "airport" confused with "hospital". In fact, it was Very Odd.

[Sangre]

I like this post. A lot of topics are left open, because they are based upon what "popped" into someone's head or inaccurate interpretations.

- There was no practically mention of Michael's passing in TII documentary. No "In honor of Michael Jackson who passed away before those concerts took place" or "In loving memory of..." etc.