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[MsTrinity333]

I L.O.V.E. Michael as much as anyone but he is NOT THE CHRIST, JESUS OR THE MESSIAH.

MICHAEL the Archangel IS NOT Jesus nor is Michael Jackson Michael the Archangel.  That is incorrect Theology.
MJ NEVER said he was Jesus; as a matter of fact he stated the opposite in the Oprah interview for one.  He said he's not Jesus but he tries to IMITATE Jesus. Meaning he tries to follow Jesus and his teachings like all Christians should.[/u]

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.  1 John 4:1-3[/b]

IS JESUS CHRIST THE ARCHANGEL MICHAEL?

The Watchtower Society teaches that Jesus existed as Michael the archangel prior to coming to earth and became Michael again at His resurrection. They claim that Jesus was only a man when He was on earth and when He died, the "man" Jesus ceased to exist,1. being raised as a "spirit creature" the archangel Michael:

"So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God."—Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, p. 218

In order to try to prove that Jesus is Michael the archangel, Jehovah's Witnesses often point to passages like Daniel 10:13 where Michael is seen as " one of the chief princes." The fact that Michael is "one of the chief princes," however, indicates that Michael is not unique. Jesus is more than just a "Prince" or "Ruler." The Bible calls Jesus "King of Kings" and "Lord of Lords." (Revelation 17:14; 19:16) This title indicates absolute sovereignty and authority and is a far cry from being "one of the chief princes" who is one among a group of equals.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 states, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God...." Jehovah's Wittnesses use this verse to try to prove that Jesus is Michael the archangel because He comes "with the voice of the archangel." However, the fact that Jesus is coming with the archangel's voice doesn't mean that He is the archangel. Notice that this verse also says that this verse also says that Jesus is coming with God's trumpet, but one wouldn't argue that Jesus is God simply because He is coming with God's trumpet. In 2 Thessalonians 1:7, we read that "the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." Thus, it appears that Jesus will come with the archangel who issues the shout. In Zechariah 14:5-6, we read that Jehovah God "will come, and all the holy ones with Him! And it will come about in that day that there will be no light." When one compares this passage of Jehovah's coming with the coming of Christ as described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7 and Matthew 24:29-31, it is obvious that the Jehovah who is coming in Zechariah is the Jesus who is coming with "His angels" in Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians.

In order to try to prove that when Jesus was claiming to be the "Son of God," He was claiming to be one of God's angels, Jehovah's Witnesses often point to Job 38:7 where angels are called sons of God. However, Hebrews 1:5 states, "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'THOU ART MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE' And again, 'I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM, AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME'?" Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, it is obvious that Jesus is called the "Son of God" in a different sense than angels are called God's sons.

Historically, the Jews understood the term "son of..." to mean "of the order of..." (see 1 Kings 20:35; Nehemiah 12:28) Therefore, when Jesus claimed to be the "Son of God" (John 19:7), the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16) for they understood Him to be claiming to be "of the order of God", hence, claiming to be Jehovah God. (John 5:18) In Isaiah 46:9, God declares, "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me."

The term "only begotten" does not necessarily mean that Jesus was created. When Jesus is called the "only begotten God" in John 1:18, this term is used to refer to Christ's uniqueness as God. Originally, it was thought that the term monogenese came from monos meaning "only" and gennao meaning "begotten." However, further research has determined that the term genese is derived not from gennao, but rather from genos which means "kind" or "type." Therefore, when the Bible refers to Jesus as the "only begotten God," it is literally saying that Jesus is the "one and only unique God." (see John 1:18, NIV)

Indeed, Jesus was never Michael the archangel before He came to earth, nor did He raise as "a spirit creature"-- the archangel Michael. The Bible testifies: "For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking." — Hebrews 2:5

WHO IS JESUS?
Numerous titles and attributes of Jehovah found in the Hebrew Scriptures are applied directly to Jesus in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Jehovah knows "all things." (1 John 3:20; Psalm 147:5) Jesus knows "all things." (John 16:30)
Jehovah is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10) Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23)
Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13) Jesus sanctifies us. (Hebrews 10:10)
Jehovah is our peace. (Judges 6:23) Jesus is our peace. (Ephesians 2:14)
Jehovah is our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:6) Jesus is our righteousness. ( 1 Corinthians 1:30)
Jehovah is our healer. (Exodus 15:26) Jesus heals us. (Acts 9:34)
Jehovah God dwells in us. (2 Corinthians 6:16) Jesus is in us. (Romans 8:10)2.
Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be "snatched" out of His hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39) Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be "snatched" out of His hand. (John 10:28)
Jehovah's voice is "like the roar of rushing waters." (Ezekiel 43:2) Jesus' "voice was like the sound of rushing waters." (Revelation 1:15)
Jehovah is present everywhere. (Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27) Jesus is omnipresent. (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20)
Jehovah's nature does not change. (Malachi 3:6) Jesus' nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8)3.
Jehovah is the only God we are to "serve."
(2 Kings 17:35) Jesus is to be served. (Col. 3:24)
Jehovah is the only God to be "worshipped." (Exodus 34:14) Jesus receives the same honor and "worship" that the Father receives. (John 5:23; Revelation 5:11-14 compare with Rev. 4:10-11)4. No angel can receive "worship." (Revelation 22:8-9)
Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy. (Isaiah 8:12b-13) Jesus as Jehovah is to be set apart as holy. (1 Peter 3:14b-15a)5.
Jehovah's glory is not to be given to another.
(Isaiah 42:8) Jesus shares Jehovah's glory. (Jn. 17:5)
God's name is Jehovah (or Yahweh--YHWH). (Isaiah 42:8) Jesus has Jehovah's name. (John 17:11; John 16:14-15)
Jehovah is the only God to be mentioned in prayer. (Exodus 23:13) Christians are to pray to Jesus.6.
(John 14:14)
Calling upon Jehovah (Joel 2:32) is the same as calling upon Jesus. (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-13)7.
Jehovah "the true God" is called "eternal life." (1 John 5:20) Jesus is called "the eternal life." (1 John 1:2)
Jehovah is the "mighty God." (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21) Jesus is the "mighty God"
(Isaiah 9:6) who is "Almighty." (Revelation 1:7-8)8. THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. (1 Timothy 1:17; Isaiah 44:8)
Jehovah is an "everlasting light." (Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19-20) Jesus is the light of men and the everlasting light of the future city. (John 1:4-9; Revelation 21:23)
Jehovah is "the first and the last." (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12) Jesus is the "first and the last."
(Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20)
Jehovah is the "Alpha and the Omega." (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7) Jesus is the "Alpha and the Omega." (Revelation 22:12-13, 20)
Jehovah's title is "the Holy One." (Isaiah 47:4) Jesus is "the Holy One." (Acts 3:14; John 6:69)
Jehovah is the "stumbling stone" of Israel.
(Isaiah 8:13-15) Jesus is the "stumbling stone" of Israel. (1 Peter 2:6-8)
John the Baptist was to prepare the way for Jehovah. (Isaiah 40:3) The Jehovah who came was Jesus.
(Mark 1:1-4; John 1:6-7, 23)
Jehovah is the one who was "pierced." (Zechariah 12:10)9. Jesus is the pierced Jehovah. (John 19:34; Revelation 1:7-8)
The Jehovah who was sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:13) is Jesus. (Matthew 27:2-6)
Jehovah is Lord of the elements. (Psalm 89:8-9) Jesus is Lord of the elements. (Matthew 8:26-27; John 2:7-9)
Jehovah is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man "according" to his "deeds." (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10) Jesus is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man "according" to his "deeds." (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23)
Jehovah is the only one who can forgive sins. (Mark 2:7; Daniel 9:9) Jesus forgives sins. (Mark 2:10-11; Luke 24:46-47)
Jehovah is the great "shepherd" who leads his people to "the spring of the water of life." (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7) Jesus as the "shepherd" of His people, leads them "to springs of the water of life." (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17) THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD --John 10:16.
Jehovah is "Lord of Lords." (Deuteronomy 10:17) Jesus is "Lord of Lords." (Revelation 17:14; 19:16) The Father is Lord of all. (Matthew 11:25;
Acts 17:24) Jesus is "Lord of all." (Acts 10:36) THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD. (Jude 4)
Jehovah is the Savior. (Isaiah 45:21-22) Jesus is the Savior. (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1) THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR. (Isaiah 43:11)
Jehovah created the universe. (Psalm 102:25-27) Jesus created the universe. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-19;10. Hebrews 1:10-12).11. THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR. (Isaiah 44:24)
Isaiah saw Jehovah. (Isaiah 6:1-5) The Jehovah that Isaiah saw was Jesus. (John 12:41)

Could it be that Jehovah gave Jesus all these qualities, and therefore, Jesus is a "lesser God" under Jehovah? No! For Jehovah declares:

"For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me."—Isaiah 46:9

"You are My witnesses...Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me....there is no savior besides Me."—Isaiah 43:10-11

For more information see:

bullets How can anyone believe Jesus is God?
bullets Is the Trinity a Biblical Concept?
bullets Did Jesus Resurrect from the Dead in an Invisible Spirit-body?

==========

1. The Atonement Between God and Man, Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 5, p. 454
2. Every place where Jesus is said to dwell "in" someone, the Watchtower Society's New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures mistranslates it to read "Christ is in union with you." However, note that the correct translation of "in you" can be found in Romans 8:10 of the Society's Greek/English Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.
3. In the incarnation, Jesus took on an addition nature -- a human nature (John 1:14; Philippians 2:7-8), but he still possessed and continues to posses God's nature (Philippians 2:6) "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." --Colossians 2:9
4. Also Compare Isaiah 45:23 with Philippians 2:10-11.
5. Compare the Hebrew Scripture Greek Septuagint's rendering of Isaiah 8:12-13 with 1 Peter 3:14-15. Peter quotes this passage of Jehovah and applies it directly to Jesus.
6. The Society's New World Translation mistranslates this verse to read "ask anything" rather than "ask me anything." Note the correct rendering can be found under John 14:14 in the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.
7. The New World Translation inserts the word "Jehovah" for "Lord" 237 times into their Christian Scriptures without the support of a single Greek manuscript of the Christian Scriptures. This is the case with Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. Note, however, the correct translation of "Lord" can be found in the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.
8. The Society translates "Lord God" in Rev. 1:8 as "Jehovah God." Notice that in this verse, Jehovah the Lord is called "Alpha and Omega." At Revelation 22:12-13, 20, Jesus is called the "Alpha and Omega," therefore, Jesus is the "Almighty" God of Revelation 1:8.
9. While the best Hebrew manuscripts available render Zechariah 12:10 as, "look upon Me whom they have pierced," the New World Translation mistranslates it to read, "look to the One whom they have pierced."
10. In this passage of Colossians, the New World Translation, adds the word "other" four times against all Greek manuscripts available. Note the correct translation of this passage can be found in the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation.
11. Paul quotes Psalm 102:25-27 which speaks of Jehovah and applies this passage directly to Christ in Hebrews 1:10-12.

http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-archangel.php

[maninthemoon]

What I want to see is there any reference to Michael Jackson in the bible. That would be very interesting.. Hmm.. :ugeek:

[MsTrinity333]

What I want to see is there any reference to Michael Jackson in the bible. That would be very interesting.. Hmm.. :ugeek:

Yes it would...but we would have to check the Bible Code people for that; I haven't kept up since the first book. That would be a mind blower wouldn't it? :lol:

[ibelieveinmj]

MsTrinity, I was intrigued by your post, a little confusing at first but now I understand from where you got this information.  I just wanted to show this in a different light and would love to know your thoughts.

In What Way Are Jesus and His Father One?

Is Jesus Christ God?
"I and the Father are one," said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?

In John 10:25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, 'My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.' It is much like a son saying to his father's enemy, 'If you attack my father, you attack me.' No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.

Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also "one" in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing," Jesus explained. "For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner."—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.

This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: "Let, not my will, but yours take place." These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father's. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.

Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: "I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us."—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.

Appeared in The Watchtower  September 1, 2009

[MJhasSpoken]

MsTrinity, I was intrigued by your post, a little confusing at first but now I understand from where you got this information.  I just wanted to show this in a different light and would love to know your thoughts.

In What Way Are Jesus and His Father One?

Is Jesus Christ God?
"I and the Father are one," said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?

In John 10:25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, 'My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.' It is much like a son saying to his father's enemy, 'If you attack my father, you attack me.' No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.

Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also "one" in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing," Jesus explained. "For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner."—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.

This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: "Let, not my will, but yours take place." These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father's. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.

Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: "I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us."—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.

Appeared in The Watchtower  September 1, 2009

Thanks for the post. I guess before you even read it, you read, In What Way Are Jesus and His Father One?...you might think of Jesus and the Father as one person but like in your post it says Jesus is in union with his fathers teaching and values etc. but they are still two separate people. It reminds me when you hear people say 'they are just like their parents' that's because they have been with their parents from when they were born and have learned everything from them...so I guess it's similar.

[ibelieveinmj]

MJhasSpoken...yes, the same is similar also in marriage, some say husband and wife are now ONE.
Two different people still.

[MJonmind]

MsTrinity333, what you presented so well, might be what orthodox theologians understand the Bible to teach (that's my background), but is it what Michael thinks and believes? IMO it is not, but still Michael is a blessing to all people, of all faiths and loves them all. I don't wish to offend anyone only to say what I think Michael is saying.

[MsTrinity333]

MsTrinity, I was intrigued by your post, a little confusing at first but now I understand from where you got this information.  I just wanted to show this in a different light and would love to know your thoughts.

In What Way Are Jesus and His Father One?

Is Jesus Christ God?
"I and the Father are one," said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?

In John 10:25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, 'My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.' It is much like a son saying to his father's enemy, 'If you attack my father, you attack me.' No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.

Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also "one" in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing," Jesus explained. "For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner."—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.

This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: "Let, not my will, but yours take place." These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father's. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.

Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: "I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us."—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.

Appeared in The Watchtower  September 1, 2009

Thanks for the post. I guess before you even read it, you read, In What Way Are Jesus and His Father One?...you might think of Jesus and the Father as one person but like in your post it says Jesus is in union with his fathers teaching and values etc. but they are still two separate people. It reminds me when you hear people say 'they are just like their parents' that's because they have been with their parents from when they were born and have learned everything from them...so I guess it's similar.

Yes...Jesus is God & ONE with the Father.  The Trinity is truly one of those mysteries we just will never understand completely, but I'll give it a go.  ;)  Let's start here to build a foundation before I take you to TS' link...[/color]

[youtube:3cvfnz6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqErqTt7KLg[/youtube:3cvfnz6l]

[youtube:3cvfnz6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsErqSWyxJo[/youtube:3cvfnz6l]

[youtube:3cvfnz6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LuRXCfnH7A[/youtube:3cvfnz6l]

OK...

Three - THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION:[/color]
The Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are three qualities of the universe: Time, Space, and Matter. To exist (except for God), all three are required. Each quality consists of three elements. Therefore, we live in a trinity of trinities. In the number three we have the first geometric figure. Two straight lines cannot enclose any space or form a planar figure. Three lines are necessary to form a planar figure and three dimensions are required to form a solid. A triangle is the simplest planar figure and a cube is the simplest three-dimensional solid. So as two could represent a square, three could represent a cube or solid contents. Three therefore represents that which is solid, real, substantial, complete and entire.

All things that are especially complete and entire are stamped with the number three.

Gods attributes are three - omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence.
The three divisions of time - past, present and future.
The three persons in grammar - me, myself and I.
The sum of all human ability is threefold - thought, word and deed.
The three kingdoms of matter - animal, vegetable or mineral.


Now on to some of the pages that discuss this topic.  These pages are part of a site TS linked to in TIAI Revealed pt 7.[/color]
WARNING: This is VERY complex.  :shock:  :lol:  I will only post the introductory highlights because the charts & Hebrew are so extensive they can not be copied & pasted in full on this forum, so you MUST go on site & see this stuff for yourself in order to get a grasp on it...it is INCREDIBLE. It's a rabbit hole that will take you down a very in-depth line of study. This is why I said TS is killing me!  WOW... :o   :shock:  :lol:

The Shield of the Blessed Trinity

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity_Shield.asp

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28.18f

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

"The entire structure of the Shema is built upon the mathematical identity linking the Hebrew words for One and Love with the Number 13.

The depth of integration is complete and perfect, with even the digits of the prime Number 13 - 1 and 3 - reiterating yet again the Trinitarian nature of Unity which is both the origin and nature of Love. We were created by the Ever Blessed Trinity - this is the source of all Love, and the Nature of God, as it is written (I John 4.13):

Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Note the explicit Trinitarian reference to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three Divine Persons united in Perfect Love."

Av is also the first word of the Hebrew language and it integrates with the alphanumeric structure of the First Word of the Bible - endless glory!

Here is a list of the primary associations between the Number 13 and God the Father:

13 = Echad = Ahavah = Avi
Echad is the Hebrew name of the Number 1, the Number of the Father in the Trinity.
Echad, Ahavah, and Avi are all Aleph KeyWords that sum to 13
The verb Ohav is the revelation of the Heart of the Father

Number 2: Image, Number of the Son

[Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [Colossians 1.15f]

The Number 2 is the Number of the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. It is also the value of the Second Letter Beyt, which is the initial of the Beyt KeyWord pic (Ben) meaning Son. In general, the Number 2 defines the Numerical Category subsuming concepts such as Duality, Reflection, Image, and Division (cf. The Dividing Line and the Second Commandment). It is deeply related to the Word (the linguistic image of an object) which is maximized on Spoke 2 and the idea of the Sword (Second Seal) - specifically the two-edged sword (cf. Logos Holograph). The Sword is the instrument of Division, causing duality, which integrates with the Division of the Waters on the Second Day and again in the Second Book. The cascading confluence of ideas relating to the Number 2 and God the Son is perhaps the most obvious in all Scripture.

Number 43: His Greatness, Exceeding Joy, and the Holy Spirit

And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost. [Acts 13.52]

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine [The Son's]: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [John 16.13]

And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth. [Deuteronomy 5.24]

The Son came to glorify the Father. The Holy Spirit comes to glorify the Father and the Son. He is the expression of the power and love of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. In the Spirit also is the fulness of Joy. Thus we read in Psalm 43:

O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles. Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy [Geel]: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God [Elohim Elohi].

Note that both these words are Gimel KeyWords. We have a strong confluence of ideas relating to the Holy Spirit, the Number 43, and the letter Gimel (cf. The Abundant Giver).

The idea of sending forth "light and truth" in Psalm 43 is intimately linked to the character and role of the Holy Spirit, and relates strongly to the Letter Shin - the letter of Fire - governing Spoke 21. All of this is part of the divine integration of the order of Psalms with that of the Canon, with the words (Light, Truth) [Verify] forming a KeyLink between Psalm 43 and John (Book 43).

Psalm 43 relates to Holiness, Joy, and the Divine Name Elohim, which has the value of 86 = 2 x 43, generated by multiplying two primes from the Unity Holograph generating set, as discussed..."

The Unity Holograph

The Logos Star - Sevenfold geometric representation of the prime Number 373

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Deuteronomy 6.4f

When Jesus was asked to declare the greatest commandment, he quoted this verse. Its name, the Shema, is taken from the first word which means Hear. Modern Jews consider the recital of the Shema both evening and morning to be one of their most sacred duties, and heroes of the Jewish faith have been said to have died with the final letter Dalet still on their lips. Mystics refer to its recital as the Unification of the Name, and see it as one of the most direct routes to union with God.

The Shema opens with a statement of Unity followed by a Threefold commandment. The pattern based on One and Three is reiterated in the numerical weight of two of the fundamental terms used in the verse. In accordance with the Alphabet Table, we have...

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity.asp

The Divine Unity HyperHolograph

The Logos Star - Sevenfold geometric representation of the prime Number 373

Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, is one Lord. And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Deuteronomy 6.4f

The Holographic Generating Set (A = 27, B = 37, C = 73) reveals the geometric unity underlying the holographic structure of Holy Scripture. A beautifully simple variation on the theme of the Generating Set - based on the Number 6 - then generates the the Unity Holograph Generating Set (2, 13, 43). These two sets are then reveal the integration of the Divine Prologue and Unity Holographs, to produce the Divine Unity HyperHolograph.

The Divine Prologue divides into three segments that are each based on the Number 39, the value of ONE LORD from the Shema:

John 1.1   = 39 x 93 (Love)
John 1.2-5   = 39 x 592 (Godhead)
The same was in
the beginning   = 39 x 48 (Majesty)

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity_DP.asp

Creation HyperHolograph: Jesus and YHVH

The Logos Star - Sevenfold geometric representation of the prime Number 373

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2.9f

The discovery of the iota subscript transformed alphanumeric structure of the Divine Prologue from chaos to crystaline perfection. The entire structure studied in the last two articles completely disappears if it is neglected. I can testify from ten years of excruciatingly detailed study - witnessed by a database of over 18,000 alphanumeric identities - that there is no significant structure to be found in the Divine Prologue sans the iota subscipt. Oh! How this changed the moment I acknowledged the smallest of letters!

As noted in the Divine Prologue, we have the identity:

Sum of John 1.2-5 = 23088 = 39 (ONE LORD) x 592 (GODHEAD)

Rearranging the factors yields:

Sum of John 1.2-5 = 23088 = 26 (YHVH)x 888 (JESUS)

This identity is astounding beyond description! It is the product of two fundamental Divine Names, pic (YHVH) - from the Unity Holograph - and Jesus, the name above all names! Glory! And all this in John 1.2-5!

It is extremely important to realize that the meaning of these two numbers had already been fully established for years before I found them embedded in the alphanumeric structure of the verse above. The meaning of the Number 26 remains eternally established in the personal name God designed for Himself - pic (YHVH). Its integration with the other primary names of God in the Unity Holograph greatly magnifies its glory. Likewise, the Number 888 rings and reverberates with the everlasting glory of the Lord of lords, Jesus! Halellujah! Furthermore, both of these numbers occur together in Malachi 3.6:
I am the LORD, I change Not

Ani YHVH, Lo Shaniti = 888

The beauty of this identity is that the meaning of the verse is reflected in the form of the most symmetric number - 888 - which can be permuted, inverted and reflected in a mirror, all without change. To find these two numbers united in the Divine Prologue is simply too staggering to utter.

John is the Gospel of Light. The Divine Prologue links Creation and Light, just like Genesis 1. Rearranging the factors again now integrates the Number 23088 with the value of Genesis 1.4. We have the identity:

Sum of John 1.2-5 = 23088 = 13 x 1776 = 13 x 37 x 48
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_JJ.asp

Does anyone's head hurt yet???   :shock: This is just scratching the surface. It is so complex you must go to each page and see/read them in their entirety; there are links within each page so it's an almost endless circle.  I just got into this a couple of days ago...
Good Luck & God Bless.

[MsTrinity333]

MsTrinity333, what you presented so well, might be what orthodox theologians understand the Bible to teach (that's my background), but is it what Michael thinks and believes?

I believe so bc of the duster he wore in This Is It...  :)

[MissG]

I know Gema once asked the question, Is it that Michael mistakedly thought he was The Christ or that he IS the Christ. Now there's the rub, NOT that he is pointing to The Christ.  

:) please, tell me where i wrote that question and in what context pls. I always defended the theory MJ said he was Christ like, not jesus. May be I did not understand the meaning of your post.

[MJonmind]

I'm truly sorry that I made it sound like Gema agree with me, for she did not. I'm sorry I put the word "IS" in caps, not realizing it implied that she emphasized that--my bad. She was in fact emphasizing that MJ perhaps thought he was the Christ mistakedly. Anyway I'll have to go look, it was somewhere in the Visions thread.

[MJonmind]

After spending some time looking unsuccessfully since it is a long thread, I will apologize again and ask to delete the comment I gave saying Gema said that just to make things better. Although I did find the post where you Gema said he was Christ-like. Again sorry! :oops:

[MissG]

After spending some time looking unsuccessfully since it is a long thread, I will apologize again and ask to delete the comment I gave saying Gema said that just to make things better. Although I did find the post where you Gema said he was Christ-like. Again sorry! :oops:

No need to be sorry  :lol: The visions thread was really confusing.

MJ=Christ like. Not Jesus, not the next jesus, not the antichrist. Just a person who followed Jesus philosophy :D

[MsTrinity333]

I have an update concerning the PHYSICAL ARK:

Grant Jeffrey covers the True Ark; as in the physical one in part two of this series:  http://www.god.tv/node/192
I started with part one... this guy is one of the Best of the best concerning Bible Prophecy & End Times study, this whole series has guests from the very top of this field. I encourage everyone to listen to the whole series; both season 1 & 2. It's been a while since I've gone through them so I am personally going through all the links I have posted lately myself picking up important information I have forgotten. It's very interesting, in part two he says they have it...The Sanhedrin...in Jerusalem...the physical Ark. It's been brought back from Ethiopia.

All of Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 1:  http://www.god.tv/node/192
Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 2: http://www.god.tv/node/204

[~Souza~]

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