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Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"


You know what, all this makes me think of the belief in God or not. Some people consider that the truth is just before our eyes and the existence of a God is just obvious but many people just don't see it. For others there always must be another explanation. Sometimes the evidence seems to be tractable according to a person's viewpoint.  :D Well it's off topic sorry.  :arrow:

I don't know if I really understood your question (maybe because I'm fasting and my brain seems to be slow  :lol: ) when you say that:
Quote (selected)
After reading your post the question I pose to you then is what came first.  The presentation that the NWO was the reason behind Mike's doing this then the proof or did the "proof" make you believe that Mike did this because of the NWO etc.

What came first? I first believed that Michael faked his death and very rapidly and in the field of my viewpoint and my 'knowledge' of Michael I thought that he did it because of the NWO, at least because of the people who were against him. This proof (the numbers, the autograph) as I consider it to be a proof just consolidate me in my thinking. So if I understand where you want to go, you wanna say that these numbers cannot be presented as a proof for someone who don't know Michael Jackson and even less about the hoax. But in order to believe that, people have first to believe that Michael is still alive or it wouldn't make sense. Then when people achieve this first step and begin to question why Micheal did fake his death they can analyze these numbers. Why believe in the still alive part and not in the NWO one?

Plus I want to highlight the fact that the numbers are used throughout the whole hoax to prove that this is all planned, so if you think that the numbers can be interpreted negatively you must also consider that all the numbers from the very start can prove that Michael can be really dead and that someone evil wanted to make us believe that Michael was still alive. But this theory is highly unbelievable of course.

(I don't know if this is where you wanted to go though, sorry if off topic but I wanted to say it  :D ).

Quote (selected)
Because those numbers and symbols have both positive and negative connotations throughout history.

Yes of course but we must consider the context, this is the context that finally makes someting good or evil. Here we have 'Michael Jackson faking his death' as a context and to me it's pretty clear that the numbers are to be interpreted in the good side, unless Michael Jackson is part of the dark side, thing in which I really don't believe. Now even people who think so will have hard time to make me think otherwise because 666 is well known to represent the evil side and it's not difficult to understand that reversing this satanic system, the pyramidal system, makes 999. Other than that I really don't see another explanation.

Now if you really think that these numbers can show the contrary that TS has explained and be negatively interpreted I'm really interested to see what you have found.  :)

Quote (selected)
Then I still ask where is the initial source, reason, statement of fact. I'm not asking you to prove to me that the theory seems reasonable. If I'm making any sense

I don't know if there is an initial source of proof and in my knowledge of the hoax only TS made clear statements and showed clear evidence that this hoax was linked to the NWO. That's why TS is important in this 'game'.

Now that I have ended this post I feel like you were asking a very simple question, the last part in reality, my answer seems way too long and sometimes I digress but I can't just erase everything so I keep it like that  :oops:.

:) I don't thinkk it was long at all or off topic I followed exactly how and what you were saying to prove your point.  :) thank you I'll post more after I have thought about your post. thank you for your time and opinion.
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Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 08:27:49 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
@yourtime2shine:

if you look at the board index you will see that initially there were a few different theories about the motivation for the hoax. while nwo has always been one of the more dominate theories it has gained more momentum over time. as for the connection that ts brings . i only know that the elvis connection seems to have been thought to be in the mix from early on also. if you are new i suggest you go back to these and take a look. i don't know what part of the original materials are left as there was a change of ownership at one point that was proceeded by a crash of the site. well this is what my brain can remember to try and help you . i don't know if i have given you enough information to help you firgure out what you are missing ;) there have been an amazing amount of poeple who have felt like they are here do to God's leading ( if you will) and some who imo are seeking something . we have had many members cross this threshold that are no longer here. but i guess that is to be expected.i suggest you reveiw.

Hi thank you for your time and info I truely appreciate that.  I am not new, I just have not posted much,  so I have reviewed all the info.  I'm not putting down anyone for their seeking, or the feeling that they are being lead or called to this not at all. each of us have to follow our own hearts and paths. I am not one to say you are wrong or not, I think you are welcome to your opinion and I am interested in hearing any and speaking about it.  Neither of us has to agree or disagree to have an exchange of ideas.
I don't recall reading early on about any connection to Elvis and the index is mostly proofs that Mike is alive, then the illuminati, mkultra/mind control/NWO theories on why he faked his death..  Is that what you are referring to>  To me those are all interrelated...yes?
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

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~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
perhaps mo and souza could answer your question.


perhaps
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

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~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 09:08:11 PM
Quote from: "yourtime2shine"


To me they aren't two seperate issues because to even think there is any validity to the whole NWO idea you would have to believe he faked his death, otherwise the whole number theory and TS proofs would mean nothing.  Supposedly the whole reason the NWO theory came up is because someone, somewhere said either I have this fact or this theory and I believe he did this because of this or I have proof he faked his death because of NWO control.  Wouldn't you then have to be a believer.  To me it isn't a matter of believer or non-believers.  But to remove the idea that there are two seperate topics let say that everyone who visits the NWO theory believes Mike is alive and is trying to figure out why he did this...even though I believe you'll never come close to the reason why...It still doesn't tell me as a believer or one who says Mike is alive where the NWO/mike Connection started, what fact it's based in, who came up with the idea, theory or fact. I mean reading the site I would assume TS/Study but we all know what happens when we assume. So If you inititially followed the idea that Mike is alive then decided to try and figure out why, then what led you to the NWO theory.
If you did not believe he was alive could you be convinved by the TS evidence that he was and that it further was a plot of this elitess group who hopes to minimize the population and control the world and out of fear and this numbers theory it should be revealed that Mike faked his death?  Then if you were convinced wouldn't you still seek where the theory originated...?

hi, i'm sorry that i did not get your post right.  you're specifically asking about the NWO connection to the hoax, whereas i have not made up my mind yet on whether the NWO is indeed related to the hoax. that's why to me, the hoax per se and the reasons behind it are two separate issues.
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suspicious mind

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 09:20:05 PM
i believe the poster simply wants to know who was the original person to connect the hoax to the nwo.would i be incorrect to say that the answers lies with mo and souza? that is the first place i noticed it from.i have not been here entire time.
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"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves."  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login




Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars? Tell them I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were to say, "I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight," people would say, "Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth."

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: "yourtime2shine"
Quote from: "sunburst"
butting in here  :)

i think they are 2 separate issues.  when you speak of NWO, you're talking about theories or possible reasons that he faked his death. could be NWO, could be total vindication, could be other things. that is where we are now, in my opinion, because we have already established -

the beginning, as you call it, which is the question of did he fake his death?  and i think that with the long list of inconsistencies and odd things we have been given, it is reasonable to conclude that he did.  it's true that it's a matter of perception, and that a non-believer sees these inconsistencies in a totally different way.  if i may say so, however, they don't really have good explanations for them.  so it's more that they gloss over these things because their mind is closed. they have decided he is dead, and that's it.  some even said if you have common sense, you'll know he's dead.  but the believers are precisely using a lot of their common sense in questioning the things that don't add up.  

the personal judgment on whether he faked his death or not is not theory-based, i think.  it is a judgment you come to after analyzing bits and pieces of the story, from different angles.

To me they aren't two seperate issues because to even think there is any validity to the whole NWO idea you would have to believe he faked his death, otherwise the whole number theory and TS proofs would mean nothing.  Supposedly the whole reason the NWO theory came up is because someone, somewhere said either I have this fact or this theory and I believe he did this because of this or I have proof he faked his death because of NWO control.  Wouldn't you then have to be a believer.  To me it isn't a matter of believer or non-believers.  But to remove the idea that there are two seperate topics let say that everyone who visits the NWO theory believes Mike is alive and is trying to figure out why he did this...even though I believe you'll never come close to the reason why...It still doesn't tell me as a believer or one who says Mike is alive where the NWO/mike Connection started, what fact it's based in, who came up with the idea, theory or fact. I mean reading the site I would assume TS/Study but we all know what happens when we assume. So If you inititially followed the idea that Mike is alive then decided to try and figure out why, then what led you to the NWO theory.
If you did not believe he was alive could you be convinved by the TS evidence that he was and that it further was a plot of this elitess group who hopes to minimize the population and control the world and out of fear and this numbers theory it should be revealed that Mike faked his death?  Then if you were convinced wouldn't you still seek where the theory originated...?

Blessings to you. I'm very much enjoying this topic because of your excellent way of expressing your ideas and questions without putting anybody down for not thinking the same as you. Thank you so very much for that.

I am one who was led on this journey by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. I'm still here over a year later because God has not given me peace to move on. I might add that I did not believe in the hoax right away. It wasn't until December of last year that I finally gave in to my inner conflict. What I was witnessing with my eyes drew continual conflict in my soul as I didn't have an answer for the inconsistencies that I saw. My belief had nothing to do with NWO or numerology. So, you might say that I am one that was a non-believer but who is now a believer.

I've never entertained the idea that the NWO was the reason for the hoax. I am not saying that I'm right because I could be wrong but I just don't sense in my spirit that this is the reason. The NWO was being discussed when I came to the forum but it didn't alter my belief one way or the other.

Numerology - I am always in awe when I read some of the incredible research that some here on the forum put into the numerology aspect of the hoax. It would seem totally unbelievable if it weren't written down for me to see. Numerology didn't make me believe in the hoax but being a Christian I don't believe in coincidence either. Saying that, the numerology is too coincidental to pass off as a fluke. I do have to admit that I don't understand it all and I don't think this is the reason for the hoax either but I do think numerology plays a part.

I remember back to June 25, 2009 when I fell apart as though Michael was a close family member instead of someone I didn't even know or think about. My search to find out why I was touched so deeply left me with God's voice whispering softly in my ear "walk by faith and not by sight". And that is what I've tried to do since that time.

This may not answer your question but I am thankful that you've persuaded us into thinking deeper about why and what we base our belief in the hoax on. Many blessings to you. Would you be interested in sharing why you believe Michael is alive? I realize it may not matter but I do value the input of others.
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I'm proud to be a child of God and a member of MJ's Army of L.O.V.E.
 
"Press coverage of my life is like [watching] a fictitious movie...like watching science fiction. It's not true." ~Michael Jackson (2005)

"You should not believe everything you read. You are missing the most important revelations". Craig Harvey 3-15-2012

Serenitys_Dream

  • Guest
Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 07, 2010, 10:50:10 PM
The NWO theory would most likely have originated on the Old MJHD forum as it was the first forum created addressing the hoax and yes, there was an Illuminati/NWO section. If you want to know the original poster of this theory's identity, than you will have to search the archives, if they are still available on the Internet. There may be some information on the Old MJKit forum which is also archived but I am not positive if the original poster's identity would be found there.

For myself, I was aware of some of these issues prior to Michael hoaxing his death and had actually been researching them. I was also not a fan and feel that I have been called.

In the readings I have done, I do recall reading somewhere that when Michael's computers were confiscated that it showed he had been visiting "conspiracy" websites and forums. I am sorry I do not have a link as I read this way back in the summer of 2009.
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MJonmind

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 09, 2010, 11:43:11 PM
This is good discussion. I think there has always been a major division of the MJ hoax, 2 parts, the faked death and the mission or purpose MJ had in doing it beyond simple entertainment, and we have really wrestled with it, sometimes in agony of emotions. I'm another one who really feels led by God to this over-a-year search and focus on MJ. I also had been researching most of the Illuminati, NWO, other conspiracies and many other topics that have come up, for years. The internet has opened up a whole new field of knowledge -- basically everything that has been withheld from us through controlled textbooks and media. My search had also been a spiritual journey from devout orthodox evangelical Biblical teaching, leaving no stone unturned, and I felt God was putting out breadcrumbs, and the last breadcrumb was MJ. I had never been interested/following any one person ever, and MJ's death led me to internet research his life, as top news story.

I was blown away by this man, and grieved terribly, and was mystified why. Only because I was already questioning everything, I typed in MJ death hoax, weeks after the death. This has truly been an adventure for me, and I have been enjoying the community here so much, learning so much from everybody. After immersing myself in his interviews and everything MJ, when I read the TIAI, it just seemed to me to totally match him in everything, down to his dreams, passions, loves, interest in conspiracies, knowledge of classical poems, books, movies, and music. At first I really believed it was Michael himself, until TS said he wasn't MJ. It seemed to me that many/mostly everyone(I could be mistaken) who had been at the original site from near the beginning, also easily instinctively connected TIAI topics, including conspiracies, to MJ himself. So we knew it had to be someone very close to MJ. Personally I think for a non-hoax believer to be convinced, he would have to have already questioned whether or not we can trust what we've always been told, a seed planted, which would open the mind to question other things. There's a jump of faith required, because the vast majority are believing the official story, and who wants to be laughed at or considered a conspiracy nut. My 2 cents. :)
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Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 14, 2010, 08:24:01 PM
Quote from: "sunburst"
hi, i'm sorry that i did not get your post right.  you're specifically asking about the NWO connection to the hoax, whereas i have not made up my mind yet on whether the NWO is indeed related to the hoax. that's why to me, the hoax per se and the reasons behind it are two separate issues.

so sorry I misunderstood.  thank you for explaining that to me.
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 14, 2010, 09:56:03 PM
Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"

Blessings to you. I'm very much enjoying this topic because of your excellent way of expressing your ideas and questions without putting anybody down for not thinking the same as you. Thank you so very much for that.

Thank you so much for such a wonderful compliment.  I am touched and grateful.

Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"
I am one who was led on this journey by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. I'm still here over a year later because God has not given me peace to move on. I might add that I did not believe in the hoax right away. It wasn't until December of last year that I finally gave in to my inner conflict. What I was witnessing with my eyes drew continual conflict in my soul as I didn't have an answer for the inconsistencies that I saw. My belief had nothing to do with NWO or numerology. So, you might say that I am one that was a non-believer but who is now a believer.

I completely understand the idea of the prompting by something other than or outside of yourself, to follow a path that your not exactly sure of the reason but you feel compelled to do so.
If I may ask, in December what exactly led you to the idea of the hoax...were you already watching videos and reading about the hoax and that what made you believe or did you go from a non-believer to a believer then find all this info on the web? I really don't like using that word hoax, I'm not really sure how it applies to this whole situation any longer. I mean the sure the quintessencial definition applies but I think it has become so diluted in the whole process of searching for a reason, I think can't possibly be known, not yet, that it has almost a dehumanizing process for Mike.  ;) sorry went off topic there a minute.  ;)

Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"

Numerology - I am always in awe when I read some of the incredible research that some here on the forum put into the numerology aspect of the hoax. It would seem totally unbelievable if it weren't written down for me to see. Numerology didn't make me believe in the hoax but being a Christian I don't believe in coincidence either. Saying that, the numerology is too coincidental to pass off as a fluke. I do have to admit that I don't understand it all and I don't think this is the reason for the hoax either but I do think numerology plays a part.

I remember back to June 25, 2009 when I fell apart as though Michael was a close family member instead of someone I didn't even know or think about. My search to find out why I was touched so deeply left me with God's voice whispering softly in my ear "walk by faith and not by sight". And that is what I've tried to do since that time.

Numerology - What part do you think numerology plays in all of this?

I think alot of people felt the way you did on the 25th and I love that you have courage to follow that inner prompting and not ignore it completely.


Quote from: "voiceforthesilent"
This may not answer your question but I am thankful that you've persuaded us into thinking deeper about why and what we base our belief in the hoax on. Many blessings to you. Would you be interested in sharing why you believe Michael is alive? I realize it may not matter but I do value the input of others.

To me the only way something can be answered completey is with the idea of full disclosure.  To use a riddle to make you think more so you are not surprised when you here the answer when it is told to you doesn't mean the answer to the riddle is the correct answer to the bigger question.  It is only the answer to the game you have been playing.  Is it a game then?   Riddles always have veiled or double meanings.  Does it lead you to the truth, I'm not sure but it is all very curious.
 
I cannot give you a reason why I believe Michael is alive because I have none to give.  I will say I have no doubt that he is.  That is not meant to be cryptic I just have no eloquent answer to that question.  I'm sure at some point I have felt all the feelings as described by others who believed.   A prompting, or to support someone who needs it, or come together as one for another human being.  All I can say is I have no doubt.
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 14, 2010, 10:00:25 PM
Quote from: "Serenitys_Dream"
The NWO theory would most likely have originated on the Old MJHD forum as it was the first forum created addressing the hoax and yes, there was an Illuminati/NWO section. If you want to know the original poster of this theory's identity, than you will have to search the archives, if they are still available on the Internet. There may be some information on the Old MJKit forum which is also archived but I am not positive if the original poster's identity would be found there.

For myself, I was aware of some of these issues prior to Michael hoaxing his death and had actually been researching them. I was also not a fan and feel that I have been called.

In the readings I have done, I do recall reading somewhere that when Michael's computers were confiscated that it showed he had been visiting "conspiracy" websites and forums. I am sorry I do not have a link as I read this way back in the summer of 2009.

Thank you so much for sharing and participating in the discussion.  Being aware of these issues does that make you believe that this is the reason for faking his death?  
What is the calling leading you to? What do you believe is the reason for the calling?
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 14, 2010, 10:15:32 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
This is good discussion. I think there has always been a major division of the MJ hoax, 2 parts, the faked death and the mission or purpose MJ had in doing it beyond simple entertainment, and we have really wrestled with it, sometimes in agony of emotions. I'm another one who really feels led by God to this over-a-year search and focus on MJ. I also had been researching most of the Illuminati, NWO, other conspiracies and many other topics that have come up, for years. The internet has opened up a whole new field of knowledge -- basically everything that has been withheld from us through controlled textbooks and media. My search had also been a spiritual journey from devout orthodox evangelical Biblical teaching, leaving no stone unturned, and I felt God was putting out breadcrumbs, and the last breadcrumb was MJ. I had never been interested/following any one person ever, and MJ's death led me to internet research his life, as top news story.

I was blown away by this man, and grieved terribly, and was mystified why. Only because I was already questioning everything, I typed in MJ death hoax, weeks after the death. This has truly been an adventure for me, and I have been enjoying the community here so much, learning so much from everybody. After immersing myself in his interviews and everything MJ, when I read the TIAI, it just seemed to me to totally match him in everything, down to his dreams, passions, loves, interest in conspiracies, knowledge of classical poems, books, movies, and music. At first I really believed it was Michael himself, until TS said he wasn't MJ. It seemed to me that many/mostly everyone(I could be mistaken) who had been at the original site from near the beginning, also easily instinctively connected TIAI topics, including conspiracies, to MJ himself. So we knew it had to be someone very close to MJ. Personally I think for a non-hoax believer to be convinced, he would have to have already questioned whether or not we can trust what we've always been told, a seed planted, which would open the mind to question other things. There's a jump of faith required, because the vast majority are believing the official story, and who wants to be laughed at or considered a conspiracy nut. My 2 cents. :)

and a great 2 cents it is. thank you.  So do you believe the reason "why" behind all of this is important?  would it matter if the reason isn't what is proposed here and would it be a disappointment if there were any other reason?  Is there a reason that wouldn't be good enough?
What exactly do you mean when you say that MJ is the last breadcrumb from God?  The breadcrumb in your search to lead you here or a breadcrumb into something bigger; and what do you think that is?
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
September 14, 2010, 10:23:10 PM
I just want to say a quick thank you to everyone that has participated in this thread/discussion so far.  I know there have been many who have not felt comfortable sharing their positions on all of this and many who have encountered some very harsh reactions to their ideas, beliefs or opinions.  I am grateful that you have allowed me to share in your thoughts and I am glad that you felt you could post your ideas, beliefs and opinions here.  

I also hope you take my questions in the spirit they are delivered, with a genuine interest in your ideas, beliefs and opinions.


Thank you, I appreciate it more than you know.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Go Beyond What You Think Is Possible Everyday!

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

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angel

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
October 03, 2010, 03:40:13 PM
@yourtime2shine,

This is one of those threads which seems to test our beliefs, knowledge, and ability to think for ourselves.  It's been on my mind for some time now, as the questions you have asked lead me to wonder about your identity. ;)
I'm not saying I'm right, just that the thought has crossed my mind.  Plus the number of posts you have written.  And those familiar initials in your user name... :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Sarahli

Re: I just don't get it/What am I missing?
October 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: "angel"
@yourtime2shine,

This is one of those threads which seems to test our beliefs, knowledge, and ability to think for ourselves.  It's been on my mind for some time now, as the questions you have asked lead me to wonder about your identity. ;)
I'm not saying I'm right, just that the thought has crossed my mind.  Plus the number of posts you have written.  And those familiar initials in your user name... :)

Who?  :shock:  yourtime2shine maybe?  :lol: If this is indeed it I really couldn't have imagined! What a good cover-up! I really felt like it was a woman writing. Just kiddin I don't think it's him. Where are you yourtime2shine? :D
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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We are here for you Michael and will always love you whatever happens.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

 

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