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Messages - Starchild
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31
« on: June 08, 2014, 09:39:34 AM »
I cannot believe what I'm seeing. How can you entertain the idea that Michael was guilty? That man has nothing but a heart of gold. I've spent most of my life defending him to people and I will continue to do so. I never thought that I would need to defend him here. :over-react-smiley:
Agree. I have always and will always believe that Michael is an innocent man.
32
« on: June 08, 2014, 09:37:28 AM »
This piece of crap doesn't deserve the time given him here in this thread.
Yes RK, and I'm sorry for posting the link to his Twitter, but I thought people ought to see it before they got swept along any further.
aww take it easy on yourself curls i am the one who brought it here. :icon_neutral: but the conversation has been interesting. seems like perhaps we learned from discussing latoya's input into the mess as a whole that some people will do unthinkable things under the right set of circumstances. trouble is how do we ever really know which people and under what circumstances. :judge-smiley:
Agree with your comments, Suspicious.
33
« on: June 07, 2014, 09:15:11 AM »
In short, it's conceivable that Gordon was in the know and feeding information to La Toya.
Hi Starchild,
But 'in the know' about what then? Knew Michael's advisers/powerfull men about these checks, gave this information to Jack Gordon who then told it to La Toya, who then told the rest of the world about it?
That’s what I glean from reading La Toya’s words in Starting Over.That doesn't change the fact that these checks seems certainly to exist, because La Toya knew about the name on the check, which appeared in the letter of Suspicious, with the exact amount as well. I have no idea where La Toya would have obtained her information if she didn’t receive it from Jack Gordon, particularly given her limited contact with others (including her mother) while she was entangled with Jack Gordon.
I do agree with you that it would be nice to know the actual origins of the letter, and it would be nice to have a better context of the twitter discussion in which the letter appeared.
Do, I’m all out of ideas and speculations on this topic. :smiley-vault-misc-150:
34
« on: June 06, 2014, 08:49:57 PM »
Hi Starchild,
La Toya claims that Jack Gordon had been the man who'd manufactured all of those claims she'd said about her brother, how is that even possible if she knew the identity of one of these parents receiving money from Michael?
That doesn't make sense to me.
As for Jermaine:
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I'm really confused at the moment.
Hey again, Do.
I am not incredibly familiar with the timeline of all these events. Nevertheless, according to La Toya’s statements in Starting Over, Gordon was evidently in cahoots with Michael’s advisors as well as with the “powerful men” (mentioned in the next to last sentence of the excerpt in my previous post) responsible for bringing about the child molestation allegations against Michael (don’t know if advisors = powerful men). In short, it's conceivable that Gordon was in the know and feeding information to La Toya.
About Jermaine. I took a look at the link you posted. Honestly, when given a choice, I am always more inclined to first believe what a person actually says as opposed to what is said about him, or about what that person is supposed to have said, and so on, and on :icon_lol: (you know, innocent until proven guilty). Regarding Jermaine's unpublished manuscript for the book Legacy: Surviving the Best and the Worst, the following is what Jermaine had to say about it in an interview with Larry King (March 6, 2006): You are not allowed to view links.
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35
« on: June 06, 2014, 05:36:21 PM »
Hi Starchild,
I read La Toya's books, both of them. And they contradict eachother on so many levels. But I can't believe that one can make up so many lies about their own blood because someone was forcing her. This was 'killing' Michael as well. I think she was truly mad at one point at her family, because of things that happened in the past.
Ofcourse I truly want to believe in Michael's innocence. But I have to admit there was sometimes a little bit of doubt in the back of my mind. Seeing the excerpt of the letter posted by Suspicious, the doubt came back again. I hate it, but it's there. Don't get me wrong, even IF Michael made a terrible mistake, I believe he really did not see that what he was doing was wrong. He truly loved children and loved to be child with the child, and he might have believed he was not harming (as in violence) anyone, that he was no 'jack the ripper'. I believe he was a victim himself as well. I will never judge him for it, because I never walked in his shoes, but it could be really sad for both sides, if true.
La Toya claiming that she 'read' a statement that was fabricated by Jack (who WAS abusive, true) at the press conference I do not believe (I didn't get that impression at all when I watched it).
Remember Jermaine at one point also expressed 'doubts' about his brothers innocence. Whether that was done out of jealousy or whatever, I don't know.
I hear what you're saying. It's difficult, if not impossible, to judge the true nature and extent of control Jack Gordon exercised over La Toya. All we really have to go on are her own words. That said, here are a couple more quotes from Starting Over:I never believed I would survive to write a second book, but by the grace of God, here I am. Twenty long years have passed since I wrote my first autobiography, La Toya. The truth is that I didn’t want to author that first book. My ex-manager, Jack Gordon, made me publish the book and speak out against my will in its pages. (Prologue) My book La Toya was published on September 12, 1991, and my family was extremely unhappy about much of what it contained. Although they knew that Gordon was behind every word, they still had to live with the attention it received. [. . .] During interviews, I had to say that the book had been my idea, and that every word it contained was true. (p. 86) Regarding statements made by Jermaine, I don’t know anything about that.
36
« on: June 06, 2014, 11:12:54 AM »
La Toya claims that everything she said at that time about Michael being guilty was because she was totally brainwashed by Jack Gordon. She said she was told to read a statement at Tel Aviv that was written by Jack. But what she mentioned on Geraldo seems not to be made up by her, because of the above letter about the payment to the Safechucks.
Now, because Michael allegedly paid a million dollars to the parents still doesn't mean that he molested the boy, however, I have to admit it gives me a really bad taste in my mouth. Those amounts are just too high for a friendly gesture. If all of this turns out to be true (which ofcourse I don't hope and can't comprehend at this time) then, if I were James, I would sue my parents too, for 'selling' me and keeping me from going to school.
Look guys, I understand if you are going to be mad at me and maybe it really is all a big conspiracy, but I just don't understand these big payments and the many many expensive gifts, especially to the parents of the kids. This is giving me a bad vibe.
Hi, Do.
The excerpt below, from La Toya's 2011 autobiography Starting Over (pp. 96-99), reveals further information about the Tel Aviv press conference. Maybe some have already read the book, and so the excerpt is a refresher. As most know, Jack “Gordon” (referred to in the excerpt) is La Toya’s abusive ex-husband. In short, the 1993 press conference in Tel Aviv was presumably the first of several similar occasions involving media on which La Toya felt forced to speak negatively of Michael.
The boldface on portions of the quoted text is added by me.Gordon handed me a piece of paper.
“Here, you’re reading this,” he said gruffly.
“What is this?”
All of a sudden it dawned on me: that press was here for me, and I didn’t have the slightest clue until just that moment. I felt the world close in around me as I was filled with rising panic. That was the kind of life Gordon had me leading. He was always forcing me to do things in the public eye without preparation or warning, and with the constant knowledge that if I didn’t perform impeccably, the consequences would be swift and painful.
“What is this?” I asked again nervously. “Can I go to the ladies’ room?”
“No! Read it.”
Before I had time to even collect myself, Gordon pushed me out of the car into an explosion of blazing flashbulbs as eager paparazzi jostled for position and shouted my name.
“La Toya! La Toya!”
I couldn’t even imagine what terrible words I was about to be forced to speak. But I knew there was no getting out of it, so I pulled myself together. Joseph had taught all of us children that whenever we did something, we should do it professionally and with as much enthusiasm and energy as possible. I didn’t want to be filmed looking down, with my face hidden in the piece of paper Gordon had given me. So I was trying to read words that I had never seen before, through these enormous sunglasses that obstructed my vision, while keeping my head held high, as if I were expressing my own thoughts. Even as I began to read, I still didn’t know what I was saying, but I did know that, whatever it was, if I didn’t read it properly, the way Gordon wanted me to, he was going to hurt me.
Then, with horror, as I was speaking, I realized that the statement was about Michael. It wasn’t the positive message I had been preaching in public about the allegations against Michael. It was the worst possible thing I could say about a person who was innocent, and I knew Michael was innocent. But Gordon didn’t care. He was thrilled to see Michael’s image sullied in this way. He was making me say just the opposite of what I had been saying. Back then, I didn’t know why he was making me do this, or who had put him up to it, but it was horrible.
Not only that, Gordon was making me speak out in front of a mob of news cameras, which would broadcast the statement around the world. I knew better than to display any emotion on my face, but my heart was breaking as I spoke the words he forced upon me.
I truly believed that if I didn’t say what I had been told to say, Gordon and his mob buddies would surely kill Michael. Gordon had drilled this threat into me, again and again, until I knew it to be true. So, although it was an excruciating choice, I decided that it was better to continue reading and do whatever it took to save Michael in the moment. I figured, afterward, when I knew Michael was safe, Michael and I could discuss what had happened, and I could try to make him understand how I had been forced to say such things. At the time, this reasoning allowed me to endure what was an impossible moment. But now that I look back from outside Gordon’s control, this press conference is among the biggest regrets in my life. I can’t stand to see the footage because it makes me so sick with remorse. I honestly think that I would rather have let Gordon kill me than make me say those words.
When I was finished reading those awful words from the piece of paper Gordon had handed me, he immediately took over the microphone. His words were meant to keep me convinced, and make the public think, that my family was trying to kidnap and kill me, so I wouldn’t try to escape or speak to my family, and no one would try to reunite me with them.
“There’s been two major kidnapping attempts on La Toya . . . that were stopped!” Gordon said to the media. “They were paid and financed by Michael Jackson.”
I later learned that Gordon had attempted to extort money and favors from Michael’s handlers by telling them that if they didn’t comply with his demands, he would have me make this very statement. I was horrified to discover this plot and just how much thought Gordon had put into planning the whole awful event. I had been set up to commit a terrible transgression against my beloved brother so Gordon could profit.
Even more disturbing, I also discovered, long after that awful day in Tel Aviv, that the allegations against Michael had been just as manufactured as my press conference was, and with a similar goal in mind. Much like Gordon with me in that moment, evil forces were surrounding Michael. They wanted to tarnish this reputation to impoverish him and break his spirit, and perhaps force him to sell his valuable music catalog. At the time, Gordon was secretly meeting with Michael’s former manager Frank DiLeo and Michael’s attorney John Branca, whom Howard Weitzman had brought back into the picture in November 1993 to work on the case on Michael’s behalf. Weitzman was enlisted by Bert Fields, Michael’s lead attorney at the time, in around September or October of 1993. Bert Fields, as well as Michael, and the private investigator on the case, Anthony Pellicano, wanted very much to fight to prove Michael’s innocence. Michael was actually looking forward to his court date, which would have been March 21, 1994. According to Michael, it was John Branca’s idea not to take the case to trial, but to settle it instead. Michael always regretted that, because the settlement made Michael appear guilty of those horrific charges.
What I didn’t know then was that, at the same time, Branca’s law firm also represented Michael’s label, Sony, which was desperate to get its hands on Michael’s music publishing catalog. That seemed like a clear conflict of interest to me. As Michael’s music publishing started to grow, everyone wanted a piece of it, and how convenient would it be if Michael was convicted of the child molestation charges? He would not only serve prison time, but his damaged reputation would ruin him, bankrupt him, and make it likely he would have to sell his prized possession, his music catalog. Obviously, because I was his sister, if I came out in support of the allegations, it made them more likely to stick. And even without a conviction, his ruined reputation could still have forced him to sell. I later came to believe that, because Gordon controlled me, he tried to earn favor with these powerful men by helping ruin my brother in a way that was likely to benefit them. Gordon would have been glad to do this because he hated Michael’s success.
37
« on: June 04, 2014, 10:11:41 AM »
out of curiosity are there any adult images of this kid around out there?
Here:
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Just read the link provided by Billie J. I am beginning to wonder if this new push for anybody and everybody to come forward with sexual abuse claims against MJ is a distraction, i.e., a means to discredit MJ before he comes back and (thinking outside the box here) potentially exposes a powerful ring of true sexual predators. Maybe some folks have gotten wind that he's alive and perhaps wants to come back once his name is cleared. The ongoing nature of this issue just doesn't make sense and begs the question of whether there might be particular people behind it all, but WHO are they? Just brainstorming. IDK.
38
« on: May 10, 2014, 07:28:51 AM »
I'm far too simple for all this......
I'm just totally confused! :elvis-1405:
:icon_lol: that makes two of us. it's been so long i forgot about the DWD and ARG. ARG is a game - correct? so is this actually a game? when i came to this sight i noticed MJ was being used as a platform to expose the corruption that exist, thru a youtube poster for mj death hoax his/her vids consisted of that exposer, somehow i landed here. here the same was being exposed along with what really happened on 6/25. i'm confused, is this something to be taken seriously or is it a game? i do remember postings about an ARG. i looked up ARG and read some of it. so that would make TS the puppetmaster ( i don't care to much for that title because i don't like the fact of someone pulling my strings). should i have been taking this as something serious to expose the worlds problems or a game. :icon_e_confused: this was in the ARG definition-
This Is Not A Game (TINAG) – Setting the ARG form apart from other games is the This Is Not A Game sentiment popularized by the players themselves. It is the belief that “one of the main goals of the ARG is to deny and disguise the fact that it is even a game at all.”[5]
i did enjoy reading how you all put your heads together to figure something out. and i loved the redirects. but does this consist of a beginning, middle, and end? will we ever get any concrete proof on mj. even if no return that he is alright?
Both (i.e., part serious, part game). That’s my vote, anyway. Seems we’ve all drawn our own conclusions.
39
« on: May 10, 2014, 07:23:42 AM »
Darn you TS/_comments, it's been over a year since I daydreamed about the hoax while I'm supposed to be working. I blame you for my relapse. Even though you're a fake informer, your posts are interesting. I like to try to prove you are wrong. I think I did prove you wrong in the DWD theory, but you didn't concede the debate. Unless your disappearance from the forum for a year and a half should be considered an admittance of defeat on level 7; one could interpret it as such, because that level was not finished in accordance with your own parameters. I won that debate. You struck a couple of my points legitimately, but if memory serves, you never answered others and your supportive "evidence" was unsubstantiated. You didn't back up your argument. You also didn't come back to answer challenges to your explanation. You may or may not have read past your last log in date, but your DWD theory was not universally accepted or supported on the forum. There were many that found fault with your version of truth. So we know you have been fake for a long time, but it's still fun to see you redirecting and posting with promise of updates n such. You made the ARG as far as I'm concerned so, thank you!
i don't think he made the arg, i think he is a player too.
Or maybe he’s one of the puppetmasters. It’s my understanding that there can be more than one and not necessarily the same person operating as different puppetmasters.
40
« on: May 10, 2014, 07:20:45 AM »
but what did TS's whole post have to do with Cinco de mayo, apart from the date 5/5/14
Good question! According to CNN:
Actually today commemorates Mexico's victory against the French during the Battle of Puebla in 1862, and according to research by UCLA professor David Hayes-Bautista, it isn't a Mexican holiday at all but rather an American one created by Latinos in California during the Civil War.
There was a controversy that day at MSNBC where some white guy sported a sombrero chugging a bottle of tequilla. The video is telling IMO, especially since it mentions another racist, Donald Sterling. (Whose story broke on TMZ - just saying)
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Has anyone noticed all the news stories lately dealing with race issues?
[ot] Yes! :icon_rolleyes: (Another rabbit hole altogether. . . .)[/ot]
41
« on: May 09, 2014, 07:44:36 AM »
TS/_comments has made no secret of being a fake. He's said it several times. He's said he would support false theories on at least two occasions. Once early on and again during the levels. He said if no Bam by 12/31/12, he's a fake. And he said it again on 5/5.
For all we know, the false theory he believes he is supporting is the hoax itself.
But I won't lie, I am entertained.
Agree. Here again, the possible mixture of serious hoax and ARG hoax. In ARGs, the "characters" and puppetmaster(s) don't necessarily tell the truth, but provide a mix of sometimes truth and sometimes false, leading the players farther down the "rabbit hole" (and 5 years is a loooong time). That's my understanding of some of the components of an ARG, anyway. Maybe someone else knows more, and please correct me if I'm wrong.
42
« on: April 30, 2014, 03:23:18 PM »
Great pics, Blankie! Come to think of it, we really don’t see very many photos of Katherine and the kids out and about together. Thanks for sharing. 
And here are YT links to the Jackson family on the Phil Donahue show (1989) that Suspicious referred to. Provides rare insight into the Jackson family and family dynamics in their own words :icon_cool: : Part 1: You are not allowed to view links.
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43
« on: April 29, 2014, 11:11:20 AM »
come to think of it though i don't think this is the first that we have heard he was supposed to have said these things. was it the glenda tapes , taraborrelli or somewhere else over the years? am i making things up again? :LolLolLolLol:
IDK, :Crash: :icon_razz: but the keyword is supposed. Michael Jackson is supposed to have said and done a lot of controversial things over the years. :animal0017:
44
« on: April 29, 2014, 10:57:53 AM »
Just noticed that the video link on TMZ's page now directs viewers to search for the video on YouTube, but maybe this will work:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InuXe8_pMPM&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
45
« on: April 29, 2014, 10:11:30 AM »
hummm i am kind of wondering why his response wasn't more along the lines of my brother never would have said that.
:th_bravo:
Agree. Using the infamous “would never” (forgive me, Sweetsunset :smiley-vault-misc-150: :icon_e_smile: ), contrary to TMZ’s claim (in the video link above), I too tend to think Michael would never tell Debbie Rowe that “the brothers didn’t have any talent, [that] the only other person in the family that had talent was Janet.” How is it to be known that Michael actually said these things to Debbie Rowe and, in turn, that Debbie Rowe actually repeated it to TMZ (or to some anonymous source that told TMZ) per the claim of TMZ/Harvey Levine in the video? Point being, regarding Michael and Debbie, it all remains hearsay.
Regarding Jermaine, notice in the video that Jermaine’s statement, “if it wasn’t cuz of the Jackson 5, [there] wouldn’t be no Michael Jackson,” is potentially taken out of context. What was the whole conversation? What was the particular question being asked by TMZ that prompted Jermaine to say what he did?
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