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9286

Conspiracy Theories / The assassination of Pim Fortuyn

« on: December 08, 2009, 11:59:23 AM »

First I need to say that none of the information below is based on my political views, and a discussion about these political views is absolutely not the discussion I want to arouse. This is about the inconsistencies surrounding the assassination of this Dutch politician.

This is a case I followed myself for quite a while, since this was big news in Holland at the time and still a subject in many discussions. Pim Fortuyn was the first assassinated politician in The Netherlands and therefore both his supporters and opponents were shocked by this assassination.

He made some controversial statements during his political career, but I have to tell you that 'Freedom of Speech' is something that 90% of the people in Holland will defend to death. It's a very important right we have and will always defend, and whatever your political view is, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and free to air it. I agree some might go a bridge too far, but STILL they are allowed to have that opinion, you don't have to agree with it, you don't have to respect the opinion, but ALWAYS respect the fact that also that person can have and air that opinion.

Pim Fortuyn also had an opinion. He seemed far-right to me at that time, because of how he was portrayed in the mainstream media. As I grew older (and wiser?) I read some more about him, his life, his views, the way he was portrayed and the circumstances surrounding his death. I learned that this case was not as black and white as they wanted us to believe.

Let me tell the story of the political life and assassination of this politician, who has been stating multiple times that he was being demonized and threatened, before he got shot on May 6, 2002.


Pim Fortuyn



Born                 :
Wilhelmus Simon Petrus Fortuijn on February 19, 1948 in Driehuis, The Netherlands
Death         :
May 6, 2002 (aged 54) in Hilversum, The Netherlands
Cause of death      :
Assassinated during Dutch Election of 2002
Occupation      :
Politician, Author, Columnist, Public Servant, Sociologist, Professor
Title                 :
Doctor of Philosophy
Political parties      :
PvdA (1974-1989), VVD (around mid 90's), LN (2001-2002), LPF (2002)
Religious beliefs   :
Roman Catholic


Pim Fortuyn was a Dutch politician, author, columnist, public servant, sociologist and professor who formed his own party, Pim Fortuyn List (Lijst Pim Fortuyn or LPF).

Fortuyn was the centre of several controversies for his views about immigrants and Islam. He called Islam "a backward culture" and said that if it were legally possible he would close the borders for Muslim immigrants. He was labeled a far-right populist by his opponents and in the media, but he fiercely rejected this label and explicitly distanced himself from far-right politicians such as the Belgian Filip Dewinter, the Austrian Jörg Haider, or Frenchman Jean-Marie Le Pen whenever compared to them. While Fortuyn compared his own politics to centre-right politicians such as Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, he also admired former Dutch Prime Minister Joop den Uyl, a socialist. Fortuyn however repeatedly described himself and LPF's ideology as pragmatism and not populism. Fortuyn was openly gay.

Fortuyn was assassinated during the 2002 Dutch national election campaign by Volkert van der Graaf, who claimed in court he had murdered Fortuyn to stop him from exploiting Muslims as "scapegoats" and targeting "the weak parts of society to score points" in seeking political power.


Political career

In 1992 Fortuyn wrote "Aan het volk van Nederland" (To the people of the Netherlands) and declared himself as the successor of the charismatic but controversial Dutch politician Joan van der Capellen tot den Pol.

A one-time communist and former member of the social-democratic PvdA, on 26 November 2001 he was elected by a large majority as "lijsttrekker" (sort of first man on the list) of the newly formed "Leefbaar Nederland" (Livable Netherlands) party to participate in the Dutch general election of 2002.

On 9 February 2002, he was interviewed by the Volkskrant, a Dutch newspaper. The statements he made were considered so controversial that he was dismissed as lijsttrekker the next day. In the interview Fortuyn said, among other things, that he favored putting an end to Muslim immigration, if that were possible. Having been rejected by Leefbaar Nederland, Fortuyn founded his own party LPF (Pim Fortuyn List) on February 11, 2002. Many Leefbaar Nederland supporters transferred their support to the new party.

As lijsttrekker for the "Leefbaar Rotterdam" party, a local issues party, he achieved a major victory in the Rotterdam district council elections in early March 2002. The new party won about 36% of the seats, making it the largest party in the council. For the first time since the Second World War, the Dutch Labour Party found itself out of power in Rotterdam.

For the next three months Fortuyn gave hundreds of Interviews and statements about his political ideology and ideas. In March he released his book "The Rubble of Eight Purple Years" (Puinhopen Van Acht Jaar Paars) with he used as his political agenda for the upcoming general election.


Political views

Views on Islam and immigration

In August 2001, Fortuyn was quoted in the Rotterdams Dagblad newspaper, saying, among other things, "I am also in favor of a cold war with Islam. I see Islam as an extraordinary threat, as a hostile religion." In the TV program Business class Fortuyn said that Muslims in Netherlands did not accept Dutch society. Fortuyn appeared several times in the TV program Business class, moderated by his friend Harry Mens. In this program it has been suggested that his words were interpreted rather harshly, if not wrongly. For instance, he said that Muslims in the Netherlands needed to accept living together with the Dutch, and that if this was unacceptable for them, then they were free to leave. His concluding words in the TV program were "I want to live together with the Muslim people, but it takes two to tango."

On 9 February 2002, he made further controversial statements in a Dutch newspaper, this time the Volkskrant. He said that the Netherlands, with a population of 16 million, had enough inhabitants, and therefore, the practice of allowing as many as 40,000 asylum-seekers into the country each year had to be stopped (however, the actual number was not that high and already falling at that time). He claimed that if he became part of the next government, he would pursue a restrictive immigration policy while also granting citizenship to a large group of illegal immigrants.

Remarkably, he said that he did not intend to "unload our Moroccan hooligans" onto the Moroccan King Hassan. Hasan had died three years earlier. Furthermore, he considered Article 7 of the constitution, which asserts freedom of speech, of more importance than Article 1, which forbids discrimination on the basis of religion, life principles, political inclination, race, or sexual preference. However, he distanced himself from Hans Janmaat of the Centrum Democraten, who in the 1980s wanted to remove all foreigners from the country and was repeatedly convicted for discrimination and hate speech.

Fortuyn proposed that all people who already resided in the Netherlands would be able to stay, but he emphasized the need of the immigrants to adopt the Dutch society's consensus on human rights as their own. He said "If it were legally possible, I'd say no more Muslims will get in here", claiming that the influx of Muslims would threaten freedoms in the liberal Dutch society. He thought Muslim culture had never undergone a process of modernization and therefore still lacked acceptance of democracy and women's, gays', lesbians' and minorities' rights, and feared it would dismiss the Dutch legal system in favor of the shari'a law.

One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism."

When asked by the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant whether he hated Islam, he replied:
“I don't hate Islam. I consider it a backward culture. I have travelled much in the world. And wherever Islam rules, it's just terrible. All the hypocrisy. It's a bit like those old reformed protestants. The Reformed lie all the time. And why is that? Because they have standards and values that are so high that you can't humanly maintain them. You also see that in that Muslim culture. Then look at the Netherlands. In what country could an electoral leader of such a large movement as mine be openly homosexual? How wonderful that that's possible. That's something that one can be proud of. And I'd like to keep it that way, thank you very much.”


Other views

Pim Fortuyn claimed to be neither right wing nor left wing, asked for more openness in politics, and expressed his distaste for what he called "subsidy socialism". He furthermore criticized the media as a "Siamese twin" of the government.

He wanted smaller-scale organization of public services such as health, education, and the police, making extensive use of the possibilities of information technology (for example, a surgeon conducting an operation remotely at a local hospital). Critics said his plans would require building hundreds or thousands of new institutions at enormous expense, but Fortuyn said no extra funds would be allocated until inefficiencies had been removed.

He also held liberal views, favoring the drug policy of the Netherlands, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, and related positions.

He wanted to merge the army and air force to save money, retaining only a separate navy, but also favored re-instating compulsory military service, giving youngsters the choice between military service and a new form of public service (in which they would help in hospitals or retirement homes, for example). It is often said that he wanted to disband the army and the air force; however, Fortuyn denied this on 24 March 2002 in a business TV program.


Assassination and aftermath

On May 6, 2002, at age 54, Fortuyn was fatally shot by Volkert van der Graaf in the head and chest as he was leaving the building of a radio station where he had just given an interview. Nine days before the election, a usually peaceful and calm country was rocked by one of its few political assassinations since the slaying of Willem van Oranje (William the Silent) in 1584 during the Dutch uprising against the rule of Spanish King Philip II.
Sponsor Message.

Van der Graaf was pursued by Fortuyn's chauffeur and captured while still in possession of the gun he used to kill Fortuyn. There was some relief that van der Graaf was a deranged vegetarian and animal-rights activist (Fortuyn's policy he most objected to seems to have been a proposal to lift a ban on mink farming), rather than a jihadist.

Van der Graaf confessed to the crime. Some months later, he received an 18-year prison term. This light sentence is regarded as an injustice by many of Fortuyn's supporters, particularly because the court seems to have accepted in part the defense's argument that Fortuyn was a danger to society.

An immense outpouring of grief followed the assassination. Even people who had not supported him politically lamented the loss of a talented man struck down by an assassin's bullet in a country that prides itself on its calm and rational politics. His death was seen by many as proof that something had gone seriously wrong with the country.

The elaborate funeral featured the slave chorus from Verdi's Aida blaring from loudspeakers and Fortuyn's beloved dogs, Kenneth and Carla, as the chief mourners.

Fortuyn's remains were then transferred to Italy, where he owned property. After his coffin was loaded into a plane, two fire engines on the runway at Rotterdam airport spouted jets of water and formed a rainbow in the sunlight.

Soon, a number of shrines and memorials appeared at Fortuyn's home, at the scene of the crime, in front of Parliament in The Hague, and at the Gay Monument in Amsterdam.

Peter Jan Margry has investigated the messages left at these sites, characterizing them as expressions of grief, condolence, and dismay; declarations of affection and love; attributions of metaphysical qualities to the person of Fortuyn; and angry threats of retaliation, specifically for the perceived "hate campaign" against Fortuyn in the media.

The most immediate result of Fortuyn's death was that all parties ceased campaigning, though the election was not postponed. Since the date of the election was so near, there was no time to reprint the ballots. Technically, people could still vote for Fortuyn, which is what 17% of the voters did. The LPF received 26 seats in the 150-seat chamber, making it the second largest party in Parliament.


Sexual misconduct accusations

In 2005, Dutch journalist Peter R. de Vries obtained a secret report of the intelligence department of the Rotterdam police. It became clear from this report that Fortuyn, along with several other members from his party, had been the subject of investigation by the intelligence services. An anonymous informant claimed that Fortuyn had engaged in sex with Moroccan youths aged between 16 and 21; this would have been legal under Dutch law. However, the report contained factual inaccuracies, and the trustworthiness of the original source could not be verified.


The assassin

Volkert van der Graaf (born July 9, 1969) is notable for confessing to the murder. Born in Middelburg, Van der Graaf was a self-described animal rights activist.

On May 6, 2002, Van der Graaf shot Fortuyn, and was arrested shortly thereafter. Van der Graaf stated that he assassinated the populist Dutch politician in order to "protect weaker groups in society," but later expressed doubt over whether his actions were justified. His hearings started August 9. His trial started on March 27, 2003 and continued till April 15, 2003 when he was convicted and sentenced to 18 years in prison. During the trials, suggestions of insanity were rejected. The trial generated large interest from the Dutch public, especially Fortuyn supporters. Van der Graaf appealed for the reduction of the sentence to 16 years, but on July 18, 2003, the appeals court upheld the previous punishment.
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The questions surrounding the assassination

It was made known that Volkert van der Graaf has admitted that he was responsible for the murder of Pim Fortuyn. Teletekst News says: "Matt Herben isn't convinced that Van der Graaf acted alone. He has requested that the Justice department investigate the matter fully. Marijnissen, leader of the SP party is also intrigued as to whether van der Graaf acted alone." It's also possible that van der Graaf acted alone but that there were other people who knew and allowed it to happen. Even though no hard and fast conclusions can be drawn from this murder-case, DaanSpeak feels it's important to examine all the facts and possibilities surrounding this case.

• What raises lots of questions (and therefore doubts) is that the police knew very quickly who to arrest and happened to have a six-man strong team already wearing body armour ready to arrest the suspect within minutes of the murder. In fact they had arrested van der Graaf before the ambulances arrived to take the injured Fortuyn to hospital. This speed doesn't compliment the police but raises even more questions.
• The police from the Gooi en Vechtstreek region were assisted by a half-platoon of police from the Zaanstreek-Waterland police precinct who were coincidentally passing the scene at the time of the murder. The group was driving past the Mediapark when they heard about the shooting over their police radio. According to their spokesman these passer-by policemen offered their immediate assistance."

The actual arrest of van der Graaf was carried out by police from the local Gooi en Vechtstreek precinct.

• The ambulance that was sent to assist Fortuyn arrived at the Mediapark only to find the gates locked due to a computer malfunction. The minutes extra that it took for the ambulance to enter via another entrance ensured that they would be too late to be of any assistance in saving Fortuyns life. Officials say it took between 12 and 15 minutes for the ambulance to reach the stricken Pim Fortuyn, however eyewitness, Reporter Peter De Vries says: "The story the police are giving about the ambulance isn't accurate. It took 20-30 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. I've asked other people that were there and they all say the same thing."
• In the Dutch-TV program "Jensen!" announced Pim Fortuyn that if he should be assassinated, the establishment would be as responsable for his death, as the killer. Two months later he was gone.
• On October 18, newspaper The Telegraaf leads with a thick headline shouting that Fortuyn was being "bugged by the AIVD (Dutch MI5)." writes Theo van Gogh. "Kay van de Linde, campaign organiser of Leefbaar Nederland also thought; 'Pim you're being paranoid.' But the indications became stronger and stronger. There were things made public that only we could have known about." Van de Linde isn't the only one who believes that Pim Fortuyn was being bugged, various former acquaintances of Fortuyn have said the same thing to the Van den Haak commission who are investigating the security of Fortuyn. Van de Linde has since withdrawn his allegations. The Netherlands is "eavesdroppingland" according to experts, in a single month there is more eavedropping in the Netherlands than there is in the US in a whole year. It's ridiculous to suggest that Fortuyn wouldn't have been considered a threat by the establishment.
• Negligent government and law enforcement bodies failed to protect Pim Fortuyn, despite clear warnings, an independent inquiry concluded. But no amount of police protection would necessarily have prevented Fortuyn, who hated security, being shot by an animal rights activist, its report adds. The report, drafted by an Amsterdam judge, says the inquiry did not seek to apportion blame for Fortuyn's death. Nevertheless, it says that the police, civil servants, government ministers and the secret service were all guilty of shortcomings. Fortuyn fell victim, it suggests, to the Netherlands' famously open society, in which only the prime minister receive special protection. "The system for the personal security of citizens in the Netherlands is in no way geared to protecting persons against a murderous attack by a person who has formed a definite intent to commit the act and has acquired the means to carry it out," it says. "The system is not geared up for this, for the simple reason that no murders of this kind have occurred in the Netherlands for a very long time." The report says Fortuyn's hatred of security and his failure to keep the authorities informed about the threats he received were a mistake. It may be used by Fortuyn's brother Martin to sue the authorities for negligence. Its authors, aided by the Dutch secret service, had unprecedented access to information, including Fortuyn's computer and email account. There were 25 separate incidents in the months before his death, they said, which should have set the alarm bells ringing. The authorities were in a position to know about at least 14 of them. Not all of them were credible threats to his life, but taken together they were more than enough to warrant some kind of police protection. "Both the incidents themselves and the context in which they occurred were in themselves sufficient reason to provide Fortuyn, in the course of the period from February to April 2002, with a form of personal security and protection." "The obvious question is why he was not given it." Thirteen of the 25 incidents were direct threats to his safety by email, fax and the post. Eight compromised his physical safety, and ranged from his being pelted with a beer can and "pies" containing faeces and vomit to being confronted by angry Moroccan youths in a restaurant in the Hague. An intercepted telephone conversation between two animal rights activists saying that he should be dead was also counted, as were broader and earlier threats of blackmail and violence relating to his personal life (he was openly gay). Volkert van der Graaf, the man who was arrested within minutes of the shooting, was alleged to have broken his long silence last month to say that he had killed Fortuyn because he had been worried about his growing political influence. The report recommends a radical improvement of that coordination between government and law enforcement bodies, and with elections coming next month the authorities have carried out threat analyses for all the party leaders assigned protection.
• In order to leave no stone unturned it's interesting to bring the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) into the picture for a moment. In the Volkskrant newspaper of February 1 this year, Fortuyn said on the day of his murder that he wouldn't necessarily support the Dutch JSF development. Was Fortuyn killed by the CIA? The American secret services have already made it clear that they work in the interests of the Military-Industrial complex and hasn't shied away from taking action on foreign soil. Maybe to claim that the CIA was behind the murder of Fortuyn is going too far. although I thought it was worth mentioning and fact is that only 6 weeks after his death, the LPF (now lead by Matt Herben) unanimous voted in favor the Dutch involvement in the JSF...

What about the Al-Qaida conspiracy theory? Why would the government want to get rid of him?

It was most likely that, if Fortuyn would not have been assassinated on May 6, he would have won the elections and be prime minister.  In my honest opinion he was more of a threat to the Dutch government than to foreign countries and Al-Qaida, because his main goal was to solve problems in own country.  Other parties did not want to form a coalition with the LPF and most parties did not agree with his political agenda. The Al-Qaida conspiracy theory was mentioned in the mainstream media, which makes me think that the rumor was spread intentionally.

With this ‘single’ action Fortuyn was out of the way and the environmental movement was in bad light. That's good, if you want to further expand Schiphol  each year, and want to overbuild the entire green heart of the Netherlands with office buildings.

What also points toward foul play of the government are the sexual misconduct accusations and in particular, the way this info was obtained and published in the mainstream media in November 2005. An official of the AIVD, the national security service, sells his car to a private individual. That person finds some floppy disks, with details about investigations on Pim Fortuyn personally. The investigation was focused on the sex life of Fortuyn, who would have had sex with underage boys. Sound familiar? This is the best way to help the downfall of someone with influence.

This raises some questions:
First: Would Fortuyn put his political ideas at stake just for his own sexual pleasures?
Second: An employee of the AIVD just leaves these diskettes with highly sensitive material in his car when selling it? Don’t you think you would double check your car for personal belongings before selling it? I can’t believe you would have those floppies mistakenly under your seat…
Third: Volkert van der Graaf was sentenced up to only 18 years''. This means that with good behavior he’ll be out in 10 years.  A murder of a political head,  a direct attack on democracy and he did not get the highest punishment in the Netherlands? That’s weird, even for The Netherlands with our low sentences.


06/05 - A movie by Theo van Gogh

A Dutch Film maker and admirer of Fortuyn, Theo van Gogh, was filming a movie about his assassination and the conspiracy theorie behind it in 2004: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
He didn’t believe in a conspiracy? I don’t believe that, because before he could finish it, he was murdered on November 2, 2004 in a busy Amsterdam street in the middle of the day…You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

9287

Conspiracy Theories / Conspiracy Theories

« on: December 08, 2009, 04:31:41 AM »

You all might have noticed that it's more quiet now. Less MJ news and it's possible we will have not much news until January, since the arrest of Murray is  not to be expected for a while.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is redirecting more and more lately to conspiracy theories, and today even to a youtube about the Michael Jackson conspiracy, a book written  by Aphrodite Jones (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login).

I personally don't think that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is playing games, not at all actually. I think they are trying to make something clear to us.

I created this new category for those who want to discuss these conspiracies, we all know there are many known conspiracy theories about people that became of big influence in this world like John F. Kennedy, Princess Di, Martin Luther King and of course also Michael Jackson. Also there are the 9/11 and Titanic conspiracies. Lots of things don't add up in these cases, but we only know what the media is telling us. I myself was a little naive at first on these matters, thinking that these theories are everywhere, but not in my own safe homeland. The more I thought about it, the more I found stuff in THIS country as well that have too many stories with inconsistencies. We will start with 2 Dutch conspiracy theories here, to make you aware of the fact that it's not just happening in the US, it happens in your own country as well.

By studying these theories we might be able to understand the path that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login wants us to walk in order to find the truth, and that's what we are here for, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Please share your knowledge here.

Greetz,
Souza



Tags: JFK, Bobby Kennedy, Pearl Harbor, Martin Luther King, Titanic, Princess Di, 9/11, Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon / Conspiracy Theories

9288

The Jacksons ~ A Family Dynasty / Re: 4 Jackson Brothers Reunite For A&E Miniseries

« on: December 02, 2009, 05:11:21 PM »

But I still have one question... I read weeks ago that Michael didn't want to do this reality show ... Has anyone seen this too? I can't remember where I saw it though...I may be wrong  

No, he was going to fake his death, no time for a real life soap...

9289

The Movie Theory / Re: MJ planned to make two feature films after the TII tour

« on: December 02, 2009, 04:58:30 PM »

Under what rock did you hide the last couple of weeks? LOL!

I would love to see the full length version of Thriller...

9290

The Jacksons ~ A Family Dynasty / 4 Jackson Brothers Reunite For A&E Miniseries

« on: December 02, 2009, 04:50:05 PM »

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Well now this is a weird article:

FIRST PUBLISHED: December 2, 2009 5:01 PM EST
New York, NY --
NEW YORK (AP) — As the old saying goes, “If you like this kind of thing, you’ll like this.”

Mirroring too many other celeb-reality shows that come pledging a personal glimpse at their subjects, “The Jacksons: A Family Dynasty” is stagey, self-conscious and, most of all, self-serving on the part of its participants.

But if you’re a fan of Michael Jackson (always offstage but seldom out of mind), or even the observable members of the Jackson 5 — Marlon, Tito, Jackie and Jermaine — you might enjoy this time spent with them.

The six-hour A&E series premieres at 9 p.m. EST, Sunday, Dec. 13, with back-to-back episodes. The high point of those first two hours comes when Jermaine Jackson cries.

Tearfully, he recalls the dark days of 1976, when the rest of the group leaped to CBS Records while only he stayed behind at Motown, being loyal, he says, “to where we started.”

“Do you know what it is to be alone? Just to be alone?” says Jermaine, choking up. “I’m out in the streets and kids are saying, ‘We don’t want your autograph, ‘cause you’re the one that broke the group up.’”

“When you came back to the group, it was one of the best, favorable memories of my life,” says Tito as the foursome shares hugs all around.

It’s hard to believe this is really the first time Jermaine has ever expressed his hurt from that rift with his brothers, as he claims. And it’s hard to overlook the fact that, during this scene of high emotion, all of them seem carefully arranged on their sectional sofa for maximum visual effect.

Even so, there’s something real going on here. It’s a nice break from all the canned, rote stuff.

The premise of the miniseries (at least when filming started last January) seems to center on the Jackson 5, including Michael, reuniting for their 40th anniversary.

OK, so we assume that Mike would be in the series too. Preparing for the anniversary, filming started in January (6 months before his 'departure'), so big chance we will see him a few minutes.

The other four brothers start planning a tour and a new album — “the best album we ever made!” Jackie crows.

They exchange lots of stock dialogue like, “I think we owe it to the fans” and, “We’re family. We’ll be the Jackson 5 till the day we die.”
Well, if you read between the lines, you can assume he means Mike is not dead, because they are still the Jackson 5  

They make self-pitying remarks about the way the media abuse them, for example, “Your fans will be there for you. You have that marriage with them from day one. It’s the media that tries to come between that.”

That darn marriage-wrecking media!

They also get on each other’s nerves. In the studio last May, Jermaine records a vocal track, then heads off to lunch. Jackie decides it’s unacceptable and erases it.

“You won’t believe what happened in the studio today,” Jermaine tells his wife back at home. “I did these vocals, I was very excited about them, and the next thing I know, they were erased.”

The first hour (which includes a sentimental, staged-for-TV journey to their childhood home in Gary, Ind.) ends with the news of Michael’s death in late June.
OK, so they started in January, which means there is footage from 6 months before Mike's 'departure' and 5 months from after June 25. Yet they only have 1 hour of 6 on that first 6 months? That is odd...  :?

Even before his shocking death, it’s hard to discern from the miniseries what Michael thought about his brothers’ plans for the reunion. His involvement is apparently assumed. But he is only seen in archival footage and heard singing on the soundtrack.
So 6 months of filming and NO footage of Mike??? LMAO, what didn't he wanted us to see? That he looked better then we all assume? That the pics of skinny Mike is older than thhey are telling us? Or that his 'departure' was not on June 25, but much earlier? Food for thought at the least...

And he’s regularly mentioned.

“Your brother was the biggest artist in the world,” the Jacksons’ attorney, Virgil Roberts, tells them in the second episode, a monthafter Michael has died. “It’s put a special spotlight on you. You’re the living legacy.”

As Roberts speaks, the Jacksons’ album and tour seem to still be in the picture, at least for the sake of justifying this miniseries.
Or for the sake of money, OR Mike will still be a part of the tour. I guess time will tell.

But Jermaine isn’t in the image (and his commitment to the group is called into question) when he misses the official photo shoot. He later tells his brothers he had an eye infection.

Some reunion. And four more episodes to fill.
Yeah, with what??  :lol:

9291

Nelson de la Nuez / Re: MJ's Gift to the kids by TMZ

« on: December 02, 2009, 03:13:44 PM »

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Quite affordable, I think I'm gonna buy one too, just can't make up my mind yet, they are all great...
 

9292

MJDHI Announcements / MJHD threads

« on: December 02, 2009, 02:50:53 PM »

I have noticed there are lots of threads about MJHD being closed, but I ask you NOT to post any more threads about this. There are enough now spread over the forum and there has been enough drama about that site.

For people that are only here to talk about MJHD, I am asking you to join their chatroom, it's still open.
If not, could we please go on with the investigation of the hoax?

Thank you all.

9293

This Is It / Sneek peak of the DVD extra's

« on: December 01, 2009, 10:45:43 AM »

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9294

Michael's Health & Alleged Drug/Painkiller Addiction / Debunking "Wacko Jacko" for once and for all!

« on: November 28, 2009, 10:53:35 PM »

It has been a while since we posted our last blog, but we have been doing some research. It’s a lot of information, but we advise you to struggle through it all, otherwise it’s hard to understand.

This blog is for all bad reporters of this world, that should be ashamed of themselves. We are not reporters or Michael Jackson fans, and even we took the effort to dig a little deeper to see what can explain all the things in his life that seems strange at first sight. After this post you all will be wondering the same as we: WHY did nobody see this earlier, WHY isn’t there one doctor that recognized it, or if someone did, WHY didn’t they stand up for him. Now we will stand up for him and we hope all you lazy reporters that only write lies just to sell your story will be ashamed of yourselves. We have no medical background and even we could connect the dots by doing some research on the net. All these years Mike has been bashed, called names and belittled because of his actions, appearances or behavior. No one took the effort to take a look at what could have caused all this. After reading a lot of medical articles, this is what we have found and this is what will explain everything. We are not claiming it to be the absolute truth, but after reading this entire blog, we think you will all agree with what we think is the main cause of all Mike’s actions, appearances and illnesses.

So grab your RedBull and take a seat, here we go.

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Greetz, Souza & Mo

This is a double post because of the importance of this information, click here for the other thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

9295

Questions about the forum and/or website / Re: GENERAL ERROR

« on: November 28, 2009, 06:25:08 AM »

I'm sorry, I have indeed been a little busy. We are working on the problem, it must be a technical problem.
I'll keep you updated!

9296

Questions about the forum and/or website / Re: Old Forum

« on: November 27, 2009, 10:11:01 AM »

The old board is instable and I can't control it myself. It was hacked and had a lot of glitches. This one is new and I still have to get used to it, so if there are any problems you may encounter, please mail to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. Returning to the old board is not an option.

About the posting: Some mebers may not post anymore, but a lot of topics that are being posted, are well thought of and interesting. I'd rather have less posts but interesting ones, than have to struggle through a lot of double posts with info we already know or 'MJ is so sexy' posts.

I myself think this board is way more clear and it works fine, although you have to get used to it, I have to get used to it too.

The smilies on the other board were indeed more fun, but think about our reasons to be here. It's not for posting the funniest smilies, it's for finding out the truth. Smilies won't help Mike in this hoax, good posts do, keep that in mind.

Same with the chatroom. If it's quiet in there, people are investigating, reading. If someone wants to discuss something he or she found, there is always someone around to discuss it with. Look at the 'other' chat. Busy, it's going too fast and IF someone is finally discussing something interesting, nobody will pay attention because they are too busy talking about their shoes or food.

I didn't make this board to get the most members or the most posts, I made this board for those who really want to know why and how Mike hoaxed his death. It's not about the quantity, but about the quality of the topics. Also there is already a LOT of information on the MJKIT board, which is still accessable for everyone to read.

Do not look at numbers, look at the info. And if you think there is info missing, you can always post it yourself of course.

Greetz,
Souza

9297

Michael Jackson News / Re: ***breaking news*** best evidence yet

« on: November 27, 2009, 05:41:35 AM »

Bec, I applaud you. Great post and thank you for trying to make people aware of the problems in this world, because this is not only a problem of Gary or the US.  

I have been a little angry and upset the last few days because of certain things Mo and I bumped into, but I watched "The Jacksons, An American Dream" again yesterday, that luckily opened my eyes again about Joe. He did horrible things and would indeed never be Father Of The Year, but he also did something good. He stayed with Katherine when she got pregnant of Rebbie, while his dream was to move to California and become an entertainer or professional boxer. He worked double shifts so that his wife and children had some food on their plates and he took a risk with spending all their money on instruments, hoping it would pay out some day for them all.

He was hard on them, too hard in my opinion and I will never agree to the way he treated the kids, but he did get them out of there and prepared them for the life they would face. If Joe didn't push them to try harder, work harder and be the very very best, they would still be in Gary, or maybe not even alive and we would never have known them. Some people sadly do not have the power of the word to convince or stimulate others and use violence to get what they want or need.

Remember the interview with Geraldo in 2005. Mike clearly says his dad is a warrior and he resembles him in a lot of ways. They are both strong and he has forgiven him. He is who he is now because of him. "We are family, just know that" is a phrase from TII. LaToya mentions at the memorial that to Michael, family comes first, fans second. Family is important and Mike knows that too. Of course you can make jokes about them sometimes, but never forget what they had to go through to get where they are now. This goes for Mike, but also for his brothers and sisters, remember that. It was not presented to them on a silver plate, they all worked their asses off and faced the ugly things of this world. The least we can do, is show some respect.

As I do not agree with or respect the way Joe took to get there (I even got real problems with it), I do have the utmost respect for the goal he had in mind, trying to give his wife and children a better life. Just try to imagine you live with your wife and 9 children in a 2 bedroom house, working double shifts to support them and still have the energy to practise with the kids and save money for instruments.

Nothing is black & white, it never is and it should never be. Whether you come from Afrika, Norway, China or Venezuela, we all are human beings with feelings and opinions. We should all be free to air our opinions, without being silenced or judged because of our race, color, income or appearance. Everybody is equal, and Mike indeed never forgot where he came from. Sadly there were people that used his good heart against him and people who believed these lies and accusations. Those are the people that are screwing up this world, that will do anything for money and they are the biggest problem on this earth.

Mike is trying to make a change, but can't do it alone. So take a look at yourself and see in what way YOU can contribute. Not your neighbour, not you brother or sister, not that guy that crashed your car last week and ran off, because you can't change anyone but yourself...

9298

Questions about the forum and/or website / Re: Technical problems with New topics and PM's

« on: November 25, 2009, 03:54:17 PM »

Hmmm, I have to look into it, I hope I have some time for that this weekend.
You can also bookmark the topic (bottom of the topic-page), maybe that will help you until then.

Greetz,
Souza

9299

Questions about the forum and/or website / Re: login

« on: November 25, 2009, 11:08:12 AM »

Hey,

Could you let me know if you still have that problem? I hae changed some settings.

Greetz,
Souza

9300

Questions about the forum and/or website / Re: Technical problems with New topics and PM's

« on: November 25, 2009, 11:05:51 AM »

Hey guys,

I have changed some settings and all should work now, could you please check?

As for the topic reply notifications, I think that's not standard, you need to check something with your post: "Notify me when a reply is posted".

I am still having some fights sometimes with the admin panel, because it's different from the old board, but if you have any problems, let me know so I can see what's wrong.

Let me know if it's working now!

Greetz,
Souza